EV's

[Lennys Tap]

Inertia.

I bought my shares well before Musk became distracted by and/or obsessed with fighting social wars.

Although I don’t really have that many shares of TSLA, yes, I probably should have sold them. But I’m a long-term investor who really hates selling anything. While I believe that philosophy has served me well over the years, every once in a while buy-and-hold does burn me.

I do believe that Tesla can still “win” in the EV realm if Elon will stop getting in his company’s way. Pissing off almost your entire customer base isn’t the best business model, however.

So if he won’t act in the best interest of TSLA shareholders, it’s up to shareholders to use the votes we’ve earned.

Mike

I understand “buy and hold” as an overall plan or philosophy. In general I support it. But if I was holding a stock and I thought the principal owner was an out of control bigot driving the company into the ground I would choose selling over voting to protest a bonus. To me, that decision would be easy.

[MU82]

Tony

I’ve already said you’re probably right about this. It wouldn’t be my first investing mistake, and it willn’t be my last.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

My investing error is typically holding too long, so I get you reluctance to sell. But in a rare instance, I agree with Lenny: why are you still a shareholder?

I've shared here before that early on I felt I really missed the chance to invest in TSLA, but then when Elon began acting incredibly erratically (to put it in the nicest possible terms) I felt like I had dodged a bullet. Add to this the fact that he is effectively the CEO of 5 companies while actually spending inordinate amounts of time posting culture war, conspiracy theory, and antisemitic stuff on Xitter, and it makes for a case study in bad management.

[MU82]

My investing error is typically holding too long, so I get you reluctance to sell. But in a rare instance, I agree with Lenny: why are you still a shareholder?

I've shared here before that early on I felt I really missed the chance to invest in TSLA, but then when Elon began acting incredibly erratically (to put it in the nicest possible terms) I felt like I had dodged a bullet. Add to this the fact that he is effectively the CEO of 5 companies while actually spending inordinate amounts of time posting culture war, conspiracy theory, and antisemitic stuff on Xitter, and it makes for a case study in bad management.

Agree with everything you say here.

[tower912]

Toyota, Mazda, and Subaru have announced a partnership on engine development.   Sharing wisdom on how to better package internal combustion, hybrid, and alternative fuel engines.    I admire this and appreciate the notion of collaboration.    I do believe that EVs are the endgame, I just believe that the 2035 deadline is about 10 years optimistic.

[Hards Alumni]

https://x.com/MorePerfectUS/status/1795536424437158200?t=cOx5nSuwtWcnnig6act_3g&s=19

USA USA USA

[tower912]

Not surprising. 

[Plaque Lives Matter!]

In our defense this has probably been going on for much longer and in numerous industries than just the recent inflation and oil.

[jficke13]

shocked not shocked fry.gif.

[Uncle Rico]

In our defense this has probably been going on for much longer and in numerous industries than just the recent inflation and oil.

It has, but I can say from experience, some businesses are beginning to roll back prices.  In some instances, it might be too late to save or get customers back in some of these businesses, but 🤷🏼‍♂️

[jesmu84]

In our defense this has probably been going on for much longer and in numerous industries than just the recent inflation and oil.

Of course. Corporations and the government long ago gave up doing what's best for US citizens

[Plaque Lives Matter!]

Wow

https://x.com/business/status/1796775209728356357?s=46&t=G2FhP_F2kWewaBOpvRv5lg

[MU82]

Interesting piece on how millions of EV car batteries could eventually be "connected" to help the national electric grid.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/05/business/energy-environment/electric-car-batteries-grid.html?

Electric cars are more expensive than gasoline models largely because batteries cost so much. But new technology could turn those pricey devices into an asset, giving owners benefits like reduced utility bills, lower lease payments or free parking.

Ford Motor, General Motors, BMW and other automakers are exploring how electric-car batteries could be used to store excess renewable energy to help utilities deal with fluctuations in supply and demand for power. Automakers would make money by serving as intermediaries between car owners and power suppliers.

Millions of cars could be thought of as a huge energy system that, for the first time, will be connected to another enormous energy system, the electrical grid, said Matthias Preindl, an associate professor of power electronic systems at Columbia University.

“We’re just at the starting point,” Dr. Preindl said. “They will interact more in the future, and they can potentially support one another — or stress one another.”

[Skatastrophy]

That's interesting. Just riffing here - If we continue with swappable battery technology (which I've only seen for semis I think) then the big battery swap houses could double as grid storage earning $$ while the inventory is sitting there "unused."

[rocky_warrior]

I really should start a "solar" thread I guess, but my recent story as it relates to home backup batteries (and vaguely vehicle batteries).

Last summer I got a quote for solar on my roof, and really wanted a backup battery included.  Talked to a couple installers and they both said it made no financial sense to install a battery - basically you end up paying so much per kWh that you might as well go and buy an EV and get a much better value.  For a completely unrelated reason, I decided not to install last year.

About a month ago, I got an email from one of the companies about a deal on solar panels so I started the discussion again.  I didn't even ask about a battery, figuring it was still not a good option.  The quote I got back was for a few thousand less than last year (after all rebates and credits).  But he threw in another quote including the (new) Powerwall 3.  It was only $700 more than solar alone!  Also still less than last years quote.  Done deal.

What changed?  Well, a lot I guess.  But Colorado added a state tax credit for batteries that shaved a couple thousand off the price, and the Utility (Xcel) is paying for 50% of it to use a a grid backup solution (more on that shortly).  Additionally, the PW3 now has a DC/AC inverter (11.5kW) included at about the same cost as the PW1/2, which means that the installers don't need to purchase some other inverter for the solar installation. 

So back to the battery grid backup - Xcel pays for half of my battery, and I sign a contract that says Xcel can use up to 60% of my battery capacity to feed the grid during up to 60 days of the year when they expect bad weather / high peak demand.  40% is always reserved for my use (and 100% on the other 305 days per year).

So...while I certainly expect EVs to help this distributed battery grid in the next few years, it's certainly a clever solution to get more battery storage to capture the excess daytime renewables.

[Skatastrophy]

I really should start a "solar" thread I guess, but my recent story as it relates to home backup batteries (and vaguely vehicle batteries).

Last summer I got a quote for solar on my roof, and really wanted a backup battery included.  Talked to a couple installers and they both said it made no financial sense to install a battery - basically you end up paying so much per kWh that you might as well go and buy an EV and get a much better value.  For a completely unrelated reason, I decided not to install last year.

About a month ago, I got an email from one of the companies about a deal on solar panels so I started the discussion again.  I didn't even ask about a battery, figuring it was still not a good option.  The quote I got back was for a few thousand less than last year (after all rebates and credits).  But he threw in another quote including the (new) Powerwall 3.  It was only $700 more than solar alone!  Done deal.

What changed?  Well, a lot I guess.  But Colorado added a state tax credit for batteries that shaved a couple thousand off the price, and the Utility (Xcel) is paying for 50% of it to use a a grid backup solution (more on that shortly).  Additionally, the PW3 now has a DC/AC inverter (11.5kW) included at about the same cost as the PW1/2, which means that the installers don't need to purchase some other inverter for the solar installation. 

So back to the battery grid backup - Xcel pays for half of my battery, and I sign a contract that says Xcel can use up to 60% of my battery capacity to feed the grid during up to 60 days of the year when they expect bad weather / high peak demand.  40% is always reserved for my use (and 100% on the other 305 days per year).

So...while I certainly expect EVs to help this distributed battery grid in the next few years, it's certainly a clever solution to get more battery storage to capture the excess daytime renewables.

That's awesome. That's part of the premise of whatever the crypto folks call defi but for the energy grid. Why not have neighborhood/county/region energy swap networks set up.

It makes way more sense for the established, deep pocket, energy companies to fund the expansion of that network and then profit from it before regular people can get organized. Same thing with municipal ISPs, they are illegal some places but are also scaring the traditional ISPs enough that they're spurred to upgrade their networks (theoretically, more likely they'll lobby to crush muni ISPs).

[rocky_warrior]

Same thing with municipal ISPs, they are illegal some places but are also scaring the traditional ISPs enough that they're spurred to upgrade their networks (theoretically, more likely they'll lobby to crush muni ISPs).

Hah.  Search for NextLight.  Municipal fiber in Longmont CO (I voted for it back in the day).  Phenomenal success, but Comcast/CenturyLink spent a LOT of money trying to convince voters it would be a waste of money.  $50 lifetime contract for gigabit internet.

[muwarrior69]

Interesting piece on how millions of EV car batteries could eventually be "connected" to help the national electric grid.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/05/business/energy-environment/electric-car-batteries-grid.html?

Electric cars are more expensive than gasoline models largely because batteries cost so much. But new technology could turn those pricey devices into an asset, giving owners benefits like reduced utility bills, lower lease payments or free parking.

Ford Motor, General Motors, BMW and other automakers are exploring how electric-car batteries could be used to store excess renewable energy to help utilities deal with fluctuations in supply and demand for power. Automakers would make money by serving as intermediaries between car owners and power suppliers.

Millions of cars could be thought of as a huge energy system that, for the first time, will be connected to another enormous energy system, the electrical grid, said Matthias Preindl, an associate professor of power electronic systems at Columbia University.

“We’re just at the starting point,” Dr. Preindl said. “They will interact more in the future, and they can potentially support one another — or stress one another.”

Charging your car from the grid only to have your car return it to the grid makes little sense.

[MU82]

Charging your car from the grid only to have your car return it to the grid makes little sense.

Then I suggest you not do it.

[jesmu84]

Charging your car from the grid only to have your car return it to the grid makes little sense.

I think it's like battery storage. Easy access to energy when demand is high.

[rocky_warrior]

Charging your car from the grid only to have your car return it to the grid makes little sense.

While Cali is the exception right now... In their peak production hours solar, hydro, and wind are being curtailed or exported.  The *future" is charging batteries during those times.  And other states will get there too.

With my soon to be solar system, it'll produce 130% of my electric usage.  And since I live at 9000' and rarely need AC, in the summer it'll produce more like 300% of my usage.  Currently I'll be exporting that excess to the grid.  However... Think if I could save* it all for winter to use for my baseboard heaters!?

* The way my utility does net metering, my excess does get directly credited to my future winter usage.  However, as net metering evolves (and Cali's has), this will change.  Fortunately, I'm locking into a 20 year contract with the utility.

[dgies9156]

I really should start a "solar" thread I guess, but my recent story as it relates to home backup batteries (and vaguely vehicle batteries).

Last summer I got a quote for solar on my roof, and really wanted a backup battery included.  Talked to a couple installers and they both said it made no financial sense to install a battery - basically you end up paying so much per kWh that you might as well go and buy an EV and get a much better value.  For a completely unrelated reason, I decided not to install last year.

About a month ago, I got an email from one of the companies about a deal on solar panels so I started the discussion again.  I didn't even ask about a battery, figuring it was still not a good option.  The quote I got back was for a few thousand less than last year (after all rebates and credits).  But he threw in another quote including the (new) Powerwall 3.  It was only $700 more than solar alone!  Also still less than last years quote.  Done deal.

What changed?  Well, a lot I guess.  But Colorado added a state tax credit for batteries that shaved a couple thousand off the price, and the Utility (Xcel) is paying for 50% of it to use a a grid backup solution (more on that shortly).  Additionally, the PW3 now has a DC/AC inverter (11.5kW) included at about the same cost as the PW1/2, which means that the installers don't need to purchase some other inverter for the solar installation. 

So back to the battery grid backup - Xcel pays for half of my battery, and I sign a contract that says Xcel can use up to 60% of my battery capacity to feed the grid during up to 60 days of the year when they expect bad weather / high peak demand.  40% is always reserved for my use (and 100% on the other 305 days per year).

So...while I certainly expect EVs to help this distributed battery grid in the next few years, it's certainly a clever solution to get more battery storage to capture the excess daytime renewables.

Nifty alternative to back-up generators down here in Florida.

The big debate in our home is do we sign up for natural gas to get the capability to have a back-up generator.

Our problem is our HOA, which restricts what we can do and how we can do it to our property. That's pretty common here in Florida. No solar panels as a consequence. But the battery idea is intriguing and the thought of using an EV as an alternative power source for a short time during after-hurricane power outages is very intriguing.

As long as you have enough power for the AC, refrig, wine cooler and modem, you're fine.

[jesmu84]

No solar panels in Florida? Wtf?

[Skatastrophy]

Nifty alternative to back-up generators down here in Florida.

The big debate in our home is do we sign up for natural gas to get the capability to have a back-up generator.

Our problem is our HOA, which restricts what we can do and how we can do it to our property. That's pretty common here in Florida. No solar panels as a consequence. But the battery idea is intriguing and the thought of using an EV as an alternative power source for a short time during after-hurricane power outages is very intriguing.

As long as you have enough power for the AC, refrig, wine cooler and modem, you're fine.

I'd consult a lawyer, but: https://energyresearch.ucf.edu/consumer/energy-policy/florida-solar-rights-act/

> The [Florida Solar Rights Act] specifically prohibits a homeowner association from preventing the installation of solar collectors on the roof. Although the association may determine where on the roof the collectors may be installed, so long as the installation is within the area required for its effective operation, that is, south, east or west of due south.

[Hards Alumni]

No solar panels in Florida? Wtf?

You wouldn't want to take away from all the great views of people's roofs, man.  So much for Freedomland.