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Author Topic: EV's  (Read 13357 times)

muwarrior69

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Re: EV's
« Reply #25 on: February 21, 2023, 04:29:13 PM »
I think all EV charging outlets must be set up to collect a federal/state road tax.

ChitownSpaceForRent

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Re: EV's
« Reply #26 on: February 21, 2023, 05:10:56 PM »
I think all EV charging outlets must be set up to collect a federal/state road tax.

Genuinely curious, Why?
« Last Edit: February 21, 2023, 05:16:16 PM by ChitownSpaceForRent »

ZiggysFryBoy

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Re: EV's
« Reply #27 on: February 21, 2023, 05:41:39 PM »
Genuinely curious, Why?

Just spitballin here but maybe to pay for the roads they're using.

tower912

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Re: EV's
« Reply #28 on: February 21, 2023, 06:08:56 PM »
Sales tax at the chargers.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

jesmu84

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Re: EV's
« Reply #29 on: February 21, 2023, 06:56:40 PM »
I think all EV charging outlets must be set up to collect a federal/state road tax.

Majority of states (maybe all?) have increased registration fees for hybrids/PHEVs/BEVs to make up for lack of gas taxes

ChitownSpaceForRent

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Re: EV's
« Reply #30 on: February 21, 2023, 07:00:43 PM »
Just spitballin here but maybe to pay for the roads they're using.

That’s all well and good, but I do think we should be making a push towards EVs. So if that incentive is not having to pay tax towards charging then I’m fine with it.

jesmu84

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Re: EV's
« Reply #31 on: February 21, 2023, 07:31:34 PM »
That’s all well and good, but I do think we should be making a push towards EVs. So if that incentive is not having to pay tax towards charging then I’m fine with it.

It's not a tax toward charging. It's a tax that supports road maintenance

RJax55

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Re: EV's
« Reply #32 on: February 21, 2023, 11:55:22 PM »
That’s all well and good, but I do think we should be making a push towards EVs. So if that incentive is not having to pay tax towards charging then I’m fine with it.

EVs are very heavy compared to similarly sized ICE vehicles. I'm not saying the move to EVs is wrong, but they will stress roads faster than ICE vehicles. There needs to be a charging tax or higher registration fees to fund more frequent road repairs that EV vehicles will cause.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2023, 12:14:46 AM by RJax55 »

real chili 83

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Re: EV's
« Reply #33 on: February 22, 2023, 05:55:35 AM »
That’s all well and good, but I do think we should be making a push towards EVs. So if that incentive is not having to pay tax towards charging then I’m fine with it.

No.  Pay your fair share.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2023, 09:12:17 AM by real chili 83 »

Gwaki

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Re: EV's
« Reply #34 on: February 22, 2023, 08:27:19 AM »
I have 2 EV's and no gas powered cars anymore.  Every year drive one of them from Colorado to Minnesota and back and really have no issues with charging.  I also have little to no issues with cold weather.  I can answer any questions people have around them.

tower912

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Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

jesmu84

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Re: EV's
« Reply #36 on: February 22, 2023, 11:45:12 AM »
https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/2022-lucid-air-grand-touring-performance-yearlong-review-update-1-cold-weather-range-test/

So much in this article is frustrating to me - as an owner of an EV who knows what I expect in different conditions. I have many clarifying questions for the driver.

Chili

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Re: EV's
« Reply #37 on: February 22, 2023, 02:03:33 PM »
Not exactly on point, but my Volvo S90 hybrid has a promoted range of 22-24 miles.  I live in Chicago area.  7-8 months of the year, I can do my 20 mile round trip commute in a single charge.  Cold months, I can make it one way.  A couple
Of summers I’ve made it from Memorial Day to Labor Day on a single tank of gas (we use the other car for trips to WI etc).

I have a Volvo XC60 Plug-In hybrid. We get 40 miles on a charge in regular weather. Below freezing it drops to 30ish. Love the car. Charges from a regular outlet. We fill the gas tank maybe once every 2 months. If we go regular hybrid mode we get up to 45 mph. To me it's been the perfect bridge car for our family. We can do our daily school drop offs and errands almost exclusively in electric.

Once my GMC ICE has an expensive repair, we'll be leaning towards the Polestar or Lyric (wifes family all work for GM).
But I like to throw handfuls...

rocket surgeon

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Re: EV's
« Reply #38 on: February 22, 2023, 03:35:20 PM »
That’s all well and good, but I do think we should be making a push towards EVs. So if that incentive is not having to pay tax towards charging then I’m fine with it.

  that's all well and good, but to be far, there needs to be a few(quite a few) things to be in order-

     the ability of our grid to handle the increase in EVs-i do enjoy my electricity for other things as well.  brown-outs are not acceptable unless they are occurring in the mayor's and governor's houses as well...buy stock in generac ;D ;D ;D

     the ability to mine the necessary metals for batteries and then finding a reasonable means to destroy, recycle, dispose of old batteries

    people are comfortable with the transition-price and feasibility

    people do still like options-hybrids sound like they could produce a reasonable alternative and bridge between fully gas fueled and fully EV,  to take away fully gas fueled vehicles however, would be very fuelish ;D ;D ;D
don't...don't don't don't don't

dgies9156

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Re: EV's
« Reply #39 on: February 23, 2023, 08:12:00 AM »
Just rented a Tesla Y from Avis in Libertyville, IL. Was back to visit my son and attend some Marquette games. Needed the car for a day. My review:

Positives:
Jet like acceleration. The thing flies, literally. Going from 0 to 70 is bone-jarring, it happens so fast.

Smooth ride. The car is heavy due to the fact that it's a rolling battery. It runs well and the ride is really good.

Quiet. This speaks for itself. The car also was very comfortable and roomy.

Negatives:
Knowledge. Avis' rep in Libertyville knew as much about electric cars as I know about thermodynamics. Hint: Nothing. The amount of information that was just outright wrong about recharge and availability of fast charges in Central Lake County was amazing. This will improve with time.

Recharge. As others have said, it takes forever to recharge an electric vehicle. The charger across the lot from my hotel would take about nine hours to do the job (versus 15 minutes the folks at Avis said). It also had a charging limit of 45 minutes, which is something one has to look out for. I was able to find a Tesla supercharger site in Buffalo Grove (the Woodmans Market on Ill. 21). Avis wanted a 95 percent charge level on return. It took one hour and 40 minutes to recharge. I was at 35 percent charge at the time.

Resources. Anyone who thinks Electric cars are carbon neutral is nuts. I'm concerned about the amount of lithium and rare earth minerals being mined in environmentally sensitive areas to power electric cars. Not to mention the carbon emissions from the exponential increase in electrical generation it's going to take to power 150 million or more electric cars.

My conclusion is that they'd be good for an around-town car and for short trips, say from Libertyville to NMD on a Saturday. They work so long as you have a charger in your home and can sit it on the charger overnight. They truly don't work for long distance trips (put the car on a car carrier and fly). When I drove from Libertyville to South Florida, it took 19 hours of driving and probably overall about an hour for fueling. We probably took another two hours for lunch and biobreaks along the way (mostly lunch). Based on my experience, I'd add about six to nine hours for recharging.

We'll probably get there but I doubt it will be in my lifetime and I doubt it will be on a political schedule.   

4everwarriors

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Re: EV's
« Reply #40 on: February 23, 2023, 09:10:24 AM »
Electric car batteries should be as compact and simple to change out as flashlight batteries. Furthermore, the car should come with 2 sets of batteries and an onboard charger. Thereby, one set of batteries can be in use and the ogher charging. That's when the car becomes useable, practical, a no brainer to purchase. Easy, peasy, aina?
"Give 'Em Hell, Al"

dgies9156

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Re: EV's
« Reply #41 on: February 23, 2023, 09:22:54 AM »
Electric car batteries should be as compact and simple to change out as flashlight batteries. Furthermore, the car should come with 2 sets of batteries and an onboard charger. Thereby, one set of batteries can be in use and the ogher charging. That's when the car becomes useable, practical, a no brainer to purchase. Easy, peasy, aina?

Obviously not an Electrical Engineer.

The person who develops what Brother 4Ever advocates will win a Nobel Prize and be richer than anyone on the planet.

4everwarriors

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Re: EV's
« Reply #42 on: February 23, 2023, 09:31:33 AM »
If you're gonna stand out, be outstanding, hey?
"Give 'Em Hell, Al"

jesmu84

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Re: EV's
« Reply #43 on: February 23, 2023, 10:31:46 AM »
Electric car batteries should be as compact and simple to change out as flashlight batteries. Furthermore, the car should come with 2 sets of batteries and an onboard charger. Thereby, one set of batteries can be in use and the ogher charging. That's when the car becomes useable, practical, a no brainer to purchase. Easy, peasy, aina?

Lol. Sure. Definitely want average folks handing high voltage equipment

jesmu84

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Re: EV's
« Reply #44 on: February 23, 2023, 10:34:40 AM »
Just rented a Tesla Y from Avis in Libertyville, IL. Was back to visit my son and attend some Marquette games. Needed the car for a day. My review:

Positives:
Jet like acceleration. The thing flies, literally. Going from 0 to 70 is bone-jarring, it happens so fast.

Smooth ride. The car is heavy due to the fact that it's a rolling battery. It runs well and the ride is really good.

Quiet. This speaks for itself. The car also was very comfortable and roomy.

Negatives:
Knowledge. Avis' rep in Libertyville knew as much about electric cars as I know about thermodynamics. Hint: Nothing. The amount of information that was just outright wrong about recharge and availability of fast charges in Central Lake County was amazing. This will improve with time.

Recharge. As others have said, it takes forever to recharge an electric vehicle. The charger across the lot from my hotel would take about nine hours to do the job (versus 15 minutes the folks at Avis said). It also had a charging limit of 45 minutes, which is something one has to look out for. I was able to find a Tesla supercharger site in Buffalo Grove (the Woodmans Market on Ill. 21). Avis wanted a 95 percent charge level on return. It took one hour and 40 minutes to recharge. I was at 35 percent charge at the time.

Resources. Anyone who thinks Electric cars are carbon neutral is nuts. I'm concerned about the amount of lithium and rare earth minerals being mined in environmentally sensitive areas to power electric cars. Not to mention the carbon emissions from the exponential increase in electrical generation it's going to take to power 150 million or more electric cars.

My conclusion is that they'd be good for an around-town car and for short trips, say from Libertyville to NMD on a Saturday. They work so long as you have a charger in your home and can sit it on the charger overnight. They truly don't work for long distance trips (put the car on a car carrier and fly). When I drove from Libertyville to South Florida, it took 19 hours of driving and probably overall about an hour for fueling. We probably took another two hours for lunch and biobreaks along the way (mostly lunch). Based on my experience, I'd add about six to nine hours for recharging.

We'll probably get there but I doubt it will be in my lifetime and I doubt it will be on a political schedule.

1. I assume you're as concerned about the environmental consequences of fossil fuels.

2. Wrong on the charging duration

MU Fan in Connecticut

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Re: EV's
« Reply #45 on: February 23, 2023, 11:57:17 AM »
Rare Earth minerals are not rare.

They are already working on batteries using with more common materials.  I know of a company working on a battery using an aluminum alloy that contains some lithium.  Companies are all working on quicker charging and holding charges longer.
 
As I've typed here before, we're at the Ford Model T stage of EV's (statement pulled straight from an EV manufacturer executive's mouth) and we're only seeing the initial offerings.   

Each advancement will lead to the next advancement and so on.

tower912

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Re: EV's
« Reply #46 on: February 23, 2023, 11:59:25 AM »
I agree with all of that, MFiC.    The battery technology is going to advance rapidly.     With it, the range will increase.    And hopefully, the technology for building it.   
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

JWags85

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Re: EV's
« Reply #47 on: February 23, 2023, 12:21:33 PM »
Lol. Sure. Definitely want average folks handing high voltage equipment

My old car had the battery in a side compartment in the truck.  I replaced it fairly easily and I'm not a gearhead and it wasn't some dangerous high voltage endeavor.  And that was just a standard old school car battery.  Swappable batteries are the future and they will be handled by civilians, not sure why that is such an absurd thought, other than mocking the poster for previous claims.

dgies9156

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Re: EV's
« Reply #48 on: February 23, 2023, 12:27:18 PM »
1. I assume you're as concerned about the environmental consequences of fossil fuels.

2. Wrong on the charging duration

1) Yes and I see where we are versus where we've been and am generally pleased.

2) Wrong. I sat there in my Tesla Y while the damn thing charged up to 98 percent. I'll admit it was a cold night in Chicago, but that's real world. It also was pretty new!

tower912

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Re: EV's
« Reply #49 on: February 23, 2023, 12:29:53 PM »
We do it all the time with lawnmowers, snowblowers, drills, etc.     When we had this converation 5-6 years ago, I said the future of EV's was a battery back that would be on a charger at the Shell/Marathon/BP/Speedway.    Pop out your suitcase sized battery back, put it on the charger for the next guy, grab a charged one off of their rack, pay them $20 and go drive for another 250 miles.      Technology has evolved in a different direction, so that prediction may not pan out.   
    Now I see the battery technology evolving to the point that 500 miles (in warm weather) is the norm.    And recharge for another 500 miles is 30 minutes on a high speed charger.   But that is 10-15 years out.       
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

 

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