2023 MLB Thread

[Dish]

Not great for the ChiSox big gree-agent addition.

White Sox pitcher Mike Clevinger is under investigation by Major League Baseball following allegations of domestic violence involving the mother of his 10-month-old daughter and child abuse, per a report from Brittany Ghiroli and Katie Strang of The Athletic.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2023/01/mike-clevinger-under-investigation-for-domestic-violence-allegations.html

Yup.

This is the least excited I've ever been going into a Sox season. Hopefully they have a moral clause to get out of the Clevinger contract (assuming the allegations are legit).

[The Sultan]

Scott Rolen?

[Uncle Rico]

Scott Rolen?

Defensive metrics LOVED him.  Outstanding player.  Hall of Famer?  Whatever

[Jockey]

Defensive metrics LOVED him.  Outstanding player.  Hall of Famer?  Whatever

Hang up his plaque in the Santo/Baines wing of the Hall.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Scott Rolen?

Sportswriters have lower IQs than whale shît on the bottom of the sea.

[The Sultan]

Hang up his plaque in the Santo/Baines wing of the Hall.

Next to Ted Simmons from last year.

[shoothoops]

I know a few people who vote and they mentioned the following:

Rolen has a 70.1 WAR. Every eligible eligible third baseman with that WAR has been elected to the Hall of Fame. It's also higher than 7 current MLB Hall of Fame third basemen. (10 including Negro Leagues) It's 9th all time for 3B.

Among third basemen with at least 7,000 plate appearances:

11th all time in Offensive WAR for third basemen. 5th in OPS, 4th in doubles, 6th xtra base hits, 10th RBI's, 12th HR's.

1997-2004, he was 1st in Total War, Defensive War, Defensive Runs Saved, and he was 2nd to Chipper Jones for offense.

1997-2004 ranked 3rd in WAR for any player or position. (Bonds and ARod)

6th All Time in Defensive War for third basemen.

8 Gold Gloves, 3rd all time for third basemen.

at least 300 Home Runs 8 Gold Gloves, Rolen and Schmidt.

at least 300 Home Runs, 500 Doubles, 1 Gold Glove, Rolen, Beltre, Chipper.

7 time all star, silver slugger, rookie of the year, WS Title and was best player in that WS.

[The Sultan]

Wow. 90 minutes to defend the honor of a former Cardinal.

What took you so long?

[Uncle Rico]

Wow. 90 minutes to defend the honor of a former Cardinal.

What took you so long?

Quit being so tribal

[shoothoops]

Wow. 90 minutes to defend the honor of a former Cardinal.

What took you so long?

Says the guy with 8,814 posts on Scoop, including 3 already about Scott Rolen and other Cardinals, and the Hall of Fame. Perhaps you can enter the Scoop Hall of Fame based on plate appearances.

Take it up with those that voted Rolen a Hall of Famer. They are going to run out of Hall of Fame space at Busch Stadium at some point.

[The Sultan]

Says the guy with 8,814 posts on Scoop, including 3 already about Scott Rolen and other Cardinals, and the Hall of Fame. Perhaps you can enter the Scoop Hall of Fame based on plate appearances.

Take it up with those that voted Rolen a Hall of Famer. They are going to run out of Hall of Fame space at Busch Stadium at some point.

You're trying too hard.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Wow. 90 minutes to defend the honor of a former Cardinal.

What took you so long?

Nah nah nah nah nah nah nah Arch Man!

Zip!
Rolen!
Pow!

[shoothoops]

You're trying too hard.

You're projecting too hard.

[The Sultan]

Are you suggesting I'm actually in love with the city of St. Louis and the Cardinals?

I guess that means its time for me to get drunk and drive into a tree... 

[shoothoops]

Nah nah nah nah nah nah nah Arch Man!

Zip!
Rolen!
Pow!

Playin' the hits since 2007.

[Uncle Rico]

Get a brain morans

[CTWarrior]

I don't trust WAR defensive metrics, but 70 WAR is a HOFer.  He's one of those guys that is very good at everything but is not otherworldly at anything (except maybe defense) and those guys are always underrated and not appreciated as much as they should be.  He played great defense, hit for good averages, ran the bases well, got on base at a good clip and had good power.

[wadesworld]

I know a few people who vote and they mentioned the following:

Rolen has a 70.1 WAR. Every eligible eligible third baseman with that WAR has been elected to the Hall of Fame. It's also higher than 7 current MLB Hall of Fame third basemen. (10 including Negro Leagues) It's 9th all time for 3B.

Among third basemen with at least 7,000 plate appearances:

11th all time in Offensive WAR for third basemen. 5th in OPS, 4th in doubles, 6th xtra base hits, 10th RBI's, 12th HR's.

1997-2004, he was 1st in Total War, Defensive War, Defensive Runs Saved, and he was 2nd to Chipper Jones for offense.

1997-2004 ranked 3rd in WAR for any player or position. (Bonds and ARod)

6th All Time in Defensive War for third basemen.

8 Gold Gloves, 3rd all time for third basemen.

at least 300 Home Runs 8 Gold Gloves, Rolen and Schmidt.

at least 300 Home Runs, 500 Doubles, 1 Gold Glove, Rolen, Beltre, Chipper.

7 time all star, silver slugger, rookie of the year, WS Title and was best player in that WS.

Hmm. The timing of his takeoff seems interesting to me but I can't put my finger on it. A dominant 7 year run starting in 1997 playing for the St. Louis Cardinals. Surely nobody was taking anabolic steroids with in that clubhouse. They play the game the right way, of course.

[shoothoops]

I don't trust WAR defensive metrics, but 70 WAR is a HOFer.  He's one of those guys that is very good at everything but is not otherworldly at anything (except maybe defense) and those guys are always underrated and not appreciated as much as they should be.  He played great defense, hit for good averages, ran the bases well, got on base at a good clip and had good power.

Congratulations for discussing the topic. It only took about a dozen posts and someone from Connecticut. Good job.

[cheebs09]

Congratulations for discussing the topic. It only took about a dozen posts and someone from Connecticut. Good job.

Thought location didn't matter.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Playin' the hits since 2007.

It's precious that you've saved my artwork from 16 years ago, mom.  You're a true super hero, ArchMan.

[shoothoops]

It's precious that you've saved my artwork from 16 years ago, mom.  You're a true super hero, ArchMan.

[Lennys Tap]

I don't trust WAR defensive metrics, but 70 WAR is a HOFer.  He's one of those guys that is very good at everything but is not otherworldly at anything (except maybe defense) and those guys are always underrated and not appreciated as much as they should be.  He played great defense, hit for good averages, ran the bases well, got on base at a good clip and had good power.

I don't trust them either. IMO Rolen belongs in the Hall of really, really Good. HOF? Nope. Curt Schilling must be scratching his head.

[The Sultan]

I don't trust them either. IMO Rolen belongs in the Hall of really, really Good. HOF? Nope. Curt Schilling must be scratching his head.

Yep. The way CT describes him is exactly why I agree with you here.

[CTWarrior]

Yep. The way CT describes him is exactly why I agree with you here.

My point is that if he hit .265 with less walks and 500 HRS and his defense was so-so he would be exactly as valuable as he is now and people would mostly accept that he was a Hall of Famer.  The all around player is undervalued.  He's a borderline guy, but I have zero problem with him in the Hall of Fame.