49 free throw attempts

[panda]

Marquette was not a finesse team last night. Sigh.

Good point - the refs were out to get them

[GoldenEagles03]

Unrelated.. David Joplin was HORRRIFIC last night. He had his third best "individual" offensive game of the season last night (offensive rating) last night. He played more offensive possessions than defensive possessions. AND STILL he finished the game -12.

That shouldn't be possible.

Its almost time for Ross to get off the bench before him.

Oddly enough, Marquette went cold at the end of regulation when Joplin was put in for Stevie.

Joplin is a much more capable scorer, but Stevie keeps the ball and offense moving.  Joplin has no clue how to pass.  If it is in his hands it is going up.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Good point - the refs were out to get them

Which nobody said. But using a hyperbolic trope is certainly one way to go when your point has been demolished.

You come up with a point of view, then try to craft a narrative to support that, facts be damned.

[wisblue]

Which nobody said. But using a hyperbolic trope is certainly one way to go when your point has been demolished.

You come up with a point of view, then try to craft a narrative to support that, facts be damned.

Actually, at least one poster last night said that the refereeing was “biased” which to me is a step beyond inconsistency or incompetence and suggests an intentional effort on the part of the referees to favor one team over the other.

[panda]

Which nobody said. But using a hyperbolic trope is certainly one way to go when your point has been demolished.

You come up with a point of view, then try to craft a narrative to support that, facts be damned.

So what’s the talking point if the refereeing crew didn’t favor pc over mu like it appears many on here are alluding to ?

[Elonsmusk]

I think the stretch at the end of the game where we blew an 8 point lead and didn’t score for around 5 minutes was far more negative than the refs favoring the home team who lives inside while we’re a small jump shooting team who has trouble defending inside.

Not to say the refs were decent, but cmon. Score a bucket or two at the end of regulation and we win easily. This loss is squarely on us and any other blame is avoiding discussion on our flaws.

Yeah, but how do you explain All-World, clutch coach Ed Cooley's team losing an 8 point lead in 1:40 seconds in OT?

Your take on this topic, like Sultan, is just silly.  Read the Paint Touches tweet.  What happened last night has happened all of 3 times in 13 years in a Big East game.  In those 3 games, the team who shot LESS 3-point shots was never the team who gave up 30 more FT attempts, AND in those 3 games the highest number of shots taken at the rim by the team going -30 in FT attempts was 20.  We took 38 shots at the rim last night.  So, in other words last night was historical in every way, shape, and form as it relates to getting a crappy whistle.

Quite frankly, the fact we were even in the game is a testament to the will of the team and moxie of Shaka.  That aside, it doesn't mean he didn't make an error in not trying to stem the tide some in the last 5 minutes.

[panda]

Yeah, but how do you explain All-World, clutch coach Ed Cooley's team losing an 8 point lead in 1:40 seconds in OT?

Your take on this topic, like Sultan, is just silly.  Read the Paint Touches tweet.  What happened last night has happened all of 3 times in 13 years in a Big East game.  In those 3 games, the team who shot LESS 3-point shots was never the team who gave up 30 more FT attempts, AND in those 3 games the highest number of shots taken at the rim by the team going -30 in FT attempts was 20.  We took 38 shots at the rim last night.  So, in other words last night was historical in every way, shape, and form as it relates to getting a crappy whistle.

Quite frankly, the fact we were even in the game is a testament to the will of the team and moxie of Shaka.  That aside, it doesn't mean he didn't make an error in not trying to stem the tide some in the last 5 minutes.

Speaking of hypotheticals, what would your postgame reaction be given the exact same game circumstances if Wojo was on the sideline and not Shaka ?

[Uncle Rico]

Speaking of hypotheticals, what would your postgame reaction be given the exact same game circumstances if Wojo was on the sideline and not Shaka ?

🍿

[Elonsmusk]

Speaking of hypotheticals, what would your postgame reaction be given the exact same game circumstances if Wojo was on the sideline and not Shaka ?

I'd say we got a bad whistle if all of the facts were the same.  We aren't a soft team like Wojo's teams were.  We may not be thick-bodied at the 4 and 5, but this team attacks the basket, and is far more athletic than any of Wojo's.  We scored 60 unnatural carnal knowledgeing points in the paint.

That aside, Wojo was clueless.  If you really want to get into that game, I'm willing to wager any amount of money you'd like that we won't finish 97th in Ken Pom under Shaka in Year 2 as we did Wojo.

But back to Ed Cooley - How could such an amazing coach, with the whistle on his side, at home, have a team lose an 8 point lead with 100 seconds left in a game?

[muwarrior69]

The one that really pissed me off was the toss in the second OT. It almost couldn't have been worse ... and then they called the sh!tty foul right after that. Infuriating.

Joplin definitely was fouled on his bucket near the end of regulation ... but the way things were going for us he would have missed the FT anyway (though I would have liked for him to have had the chance).

Still, I'm sticking with "refs were not good but Marquette didn't play well enough to win when the game was on the line." You can't give up offensive rebounds on 5 missed FTs, including 3x in the 2 OTs. You can't stop playing your offense for 7 minutes at the end of a close game. You can't refuse to use your timeouts when your team desperately needed to be coached up. Etc etc etc. None of that was the refs' fault.

The way the game was going I was surprised Jop wasn't called for charging.

[brewcity77]

So what’s the talking point if the refereeing crew didn’t favor pc over mu like it appears many on here are alluding to ?

If the game were called the same on both ends of the floor, the talking point would be a conference road win and rare 2-0 league start.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Yeah, but how do you explain All-World, clutch coach Ed Cooley's team losing an 8 point lead in 1:40 seconds in OT?

Your take on this topic, like Sultan, is just silly.  Read the Paint Touches tweet.  What happened last night has happened all of 3 times in 13 years in a Big East game.  In those 3 games, the team who shot LESS 3-point shots was never the team who gave up 30 more FT attempts, AND in those 3 games the highest number of shots taken at the rim by the team going -30 in FT attempts was 20.  We took 38 shots at the rim last night.  So, in other words last night was historical in every way, shape, and form as it relates to getting a crappy whistle.

Quite frankly, the fact we were even in the game is a testament to the will of the team and moxie of Shaka.  That aside, it doesn't mean he didn't make an error in not trying to stem the tide some in the last 5 minutes.

You, brew and Paint Touches are engaging in the same false narrative. Just because something rare happens, where one doesn’t have correlation to another (points in the paint correlating to fouls) that doesn’t really mean anything.

Really disappointing effort by PT. Usually they don’t buy into silly stuff like this.

[brewcity77]

You, brew and Paint Touches are engaging in the same false narrative. Just because something rare happens, where one doesn’t have correlation to another (points in the paint correlating to fouls) that doesn’t really mean anything.

Really disappointing effort by PT. Usually they don’t buy into silly stuff like this.

No, you're choosing to ignore the statistical facts around this because you don't like the narrative it leads to.

News flash: refs are human. They are inconsistent. They are influenced by crowds and coaches. They make mistakes. Last night the game was not called consistently on both ends. The way Kam and Carter were handled was not the same. It happens. And it isn't an infrequent occurrence.

It's not the sole reason Marquette lost. But amidst the factors that led to the loss, reffing was undisputably one of them. Despite that, we still had a chance to win. Turnovers, poor offensive execution, and not being able to rebound in the zone were other factors that prevented that. But reffing was a factor and when you have multiple "this has never happened before" reffing situations at the same time, it's okay to accept that fact.

[Elonsmusk]

You, brew and Paint Touches are engaging in the same false narrative. Just because something rare happens, where one doesn’t have correlation to another (points in the paint correlating to fouls) that doesn’t really mean anything.

Really disappointing effort by PT. Usually they don’t buy into silly stuff like this.

Like moth to a flame, Sultan to the defense of referees and suggesting they don't have bad nights, or get influenced a degree by the home team's coach/crowd. 

Points in the paint is indicative of taking the ball to the basket, which we did, repeatedly...and rarely got any whistles in our favor while on O.  Meanwhile, on D, their guards - Carter and Breed - got 20 FT attempts.  Kam took 12 2-point shots in the paint and got 2 FT attempts.  He was basically bodied to the ground and had to do a Curly Neal dribble from his knees to retain possession and didn't get a whistle.

I generally don't take a blame the refs approach and have agreed with you on this topic in games in the past, however, last night was historically bad and there's just no two ways around that.

I don't think anyone is arguing that Providence is a more physical team and likely should/would shoot more FTs, but no to the level of a 30 FT differential.  And it took that much of a differential for them to be able to beat us on their home court in 2OT...and we have some COLE/MOPE posters here thinking Shaka is the second coming of Wojo FFS.

[Goose]

Elon

It is a waste of timing discussing the team with the COLE crew. They have written Joplin off three times already, blow hot and cold on Omax on a game by game basis, written Kolek off countless times over past one plus seasons and the list goes on and on.

They are either very negative people, do not know the game or are just miserable people. Seeing the take on Joplin from some posters on scoop flat out disappoints me. Not that guys cannot be criticized, but going to extremes on a game to game basis.

By the way, Joplin looked pretty good in the paint last night. I think we will be seeing more and more of him scoring in the post.

[panda]

If the game were called the same on both ends of the floor, the talking point would be a conference road win and rare 2-0 league start.

Which referee was responsible for missing a bunch of shots down the stretch and turning the ball over several times with an 8 point lead ?

[Uncle Rico]

Which referee was responsible for missing a bunch of shots down the stretch and turning the ball over several times with an 8 point lead ?

Brew has already stated this was a big reason why they lost.  None of the people saying the refs sucked have said that stretch was unimportant or not a very big reason why they lost.  BOTH THE REFS SUCKING AND MARQUETTE SUCKING down the stretch can be true.

It isn’t complicated

[panda]

I'd say we got a bad whistle if all of the facts were the same.  We aren't a soft team like Wojo's teams were.  We may not be thick-bodied at the 4 and 5, but this team attacks the basket, and is far more athletic than any of Wojo's.  We scored 60 unnatural carnal knowledgeing points in the paint.

That aside, Wojo was clueless.  If you really want to get into that game, I'm willing to wager any amount of money you'd like that we won't finish 97th in Ken Pom under Shaka in Year 2 as we did Wojo.

But back to Ed Cooley - How could such an amazing coach, with the whistle on his side, at home, have a team lose an 8 point lead with 100 seconds left in a game?

Yep I’m sure you’d be totally measured and composed if we blew a game with an eight point lead, five minutes left against an inferior opponent and we struggled to get shots up down the stretch.

Shaka > Wojo. Not even up for debate.

I never brought Cooley up. You did. Not sure how that’s relevant to our conversation.

[1318WWells]

Question about the timeout in the backcourt and no 10 sec call: if a team calls timeout with 0 on the shot clock would refs give it to them?

[Elonsmusk]

Elon

It is a waste of timing discussing the team with the COLE crew. They have written Joplin off three times already, blow hot and cold on Omax on a game by game basis, written Kolek off countless times over past one plus seasons and the list goes on and on.

They are either very negative people, do not know the game or are just miserable people. Seeing the take on Joplin from some posters on scoop flat out disappoints me. Not that guys cannot be criticized, but going to extremes on a game to game basis.

By the way, Joplin looked pretty good in the paint last night. I think we will be seeing more and more of him scoring in the post.

Great post Goose.  I will say Joplin, for me, has been a maddening player, as in it seems like its been either the best of times with Jop, or the worst of times.  But, I can certainly see his potential, yet think he needs another good year of strength/conditioning improvement to max out his potential.  But, he no doubt can be an asset this year.  I would like to see him use better judgement in transition.  He got bailed out last night on a play where the easy, evident play was to throw a lob to Chase for an alley-oop but he chose to take the shot and probably should have been called for a charge.

I've always been a big O-Max and Kolek fan.  Like you, I'm very bullish on Shaka and the program's trajectory.  Shaka is the real deal.  Yet that doesn't mean he won't have some off nights too.

[Elonsmusk]

Yep I’m sure you’d be totally measured and composed if we blew a game with an eight point lead, five minutes left against an inferior opponent and we struggled to get shots up down the stretch.

Shaka > Wojo. Not even up for debate.

I never brought Cooley up. You did. Not sure how that’s relevant to our conversation.

You brought up Wojo, which brings coaching into the conversation.  You are complaining about us losing a game where we were up 8 with 5 minutes left in a game, and acting as if losing such a game is virtually impossible.  I pointed out the fact Providence lost an 8 point lead with 1:40 left, at home, with a favorable whistle on their side.  We have some Scooper posting how clutch of coach Cooley is and some here are questioning Shaka's coaching/comparing him to Wojo.  It's absurd.

[Dr. Blackheart]

David Joplin is third among Big East players in trey shooting (total season) at 46%. Such a problem.

[panda]

You brought up Wojo, which brings coaching into the conversation.  You are complaining about us losing a game where we were up 8 with 5 minutes left in a game, and acting as if losing such a game is virtually impossible.  I pointed out the fact Providence lost an 8 point lead with 1:40 left, at home, with a favorable whistle on their side.  We have some Scooper posting how clutch of coach Cooley is and some here are questioning Shaka's coaching/comparing him to Wojo.  It's absurd.

I asked how you would react in the exact same circumstances if Wojo was on the sidelines instead of Shaka to show your extreme bias of the situation.

If Wojo was the coach, you would have an absolute conniption (rightfully so) after they blew that lead. Now shaka is the coach and it’s all gravy regardless ? It was a poorly managed last five minute stretch last night. That doesn’t change our extremely positive program trajectory or the fact that Wojo stunk. You’re just too biased to be taken seriously. 

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

No, you're choosing to ignore the statistical facts around this because you don't like the narrative it leads to.

News flash: refs are human. They are inconsistent. They are influenced by crowds and coaches. They make mistakes. Last night the game was not called consistently on both ends. The way Kam and Carter were handled was not the same. It happens. And it isn't an infrequent occurrence.

It's not the sole reason Marquette lost. But amidst the factors that led to the loss, reffing was undisputably one of them. Despite that, we still had a chance to win. Turnovers, poor offensive execution, and not being able to rebound in the zone were other factors that prevented that. But reffing was a factor and when you have multiple "this has never happened before" reffing situations at the same time, it's okay to accept that fact.

You're mixing up "facts" and "opinions" again.

Not a good look.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Like moth to a flame, Sultan to the defense of referees and suggesting they don't have bad nights, or get influenced a degree by the home team's coach/crowd. 

Points in the paint is indicative of taking the ball to the basket, which we did, repeatedly...and rarely got any whistles in our favor while on O.  Meanwhile, on D, their guards - Carter and Breed - got 20 FT attempts.  Kam took 12 2-point shots in the paint and got 2 FT attempts.  He was basically bodied to the ground and had to do a Curly Neal dribble from his knees to retain possession and didn't get a whistle.

I generally don't take a blame the refs approach and have agreed with you on this topic in games in the past, however, last night was historically bad and there's just no two ways around that.

I don't think anyone is arguing that Providence is a more physical team and likely should/would shoot more FTs, but no to the level of a 30 FT differential.  And it took that much of a differential for them to be able to beat us on their home court in 2OT...and we have some COLE/MOPE posters here thinking Shaka is the second coming of Wojo FFS.

As I posted earlier, at least in the NBA, neither points in the paint nor drives to the basket correlate positively with fouls.

This is why things can be labelled as historic outliers, but if there is no correlation, you are just picking random data points.  It doesn't tell you anything.