F(ou)ND a way

[tower912]

Great points, Tower. 

We went 1-7 against ND while I was at MU so this is very sweet.

BTW…I had two years in Tower 911.

And I had two years in Tower 912.   Great room.  Great view.   0-8 while I was there.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

Celebrating with a beer…and NO, Joe Montana, it’s not a Guinness!

Don't you want to play just one Sunday?

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

Great points, Tower. 

We went 1-7 against ND while I was at MU so this is very sweet.

BTW…I had two years in Tower 911.

I did not live in Tower but beating ND is always sweet!
Not sure if we ever beat ND in my tenure 1987-1991?  At least it sure didn't feel like it.

[brewcity77]

Anyone know if that was our biggest win at the Joyce? I can only find data going back to the 90s.

In that building? Yes. Our biggest margin in South Bend? No. We beat ND 47-22 on February 18, 1939. That would stand as our largest margin in the series until the 92-66 win in 2008, though that was in Milwaukee.

https://wiki.muscoop.com/doku.php/men_s_basketball/notre_dame

[muwarrior69]

For those who were at the game did Jop really commit a flagrant 2? Even the announcers mentioned from their vantage point they could not tell and I don't recall seeing any replays. Is that call kind of automatic where the refs have no leeway whether it is intentional or not?

[StillAWarrior]

Not sure if we ever beat ND in my tenure 1987-1991?  At least it sure didn't feel like it.

We beat them once in that span. Don’t remember the exact date, but it was a Saturday morning game in December 1989.

[muwarrior69]

In that building? Yes. Our biggest margin in South Bend? No. We beat ND 47-22 on February 18, 1939. That would stand as our largest margin in the series until the 92-66 win in 2008, though that was in Milwaukee.

https://wiki.muscoop.com/doku.php/men_s_basketball/notre_dame

So we are 12-9 vs the Irish over the last 30 years; not bad for a team that seems to have our number.

[brewcity77]

So we are 12-9 vs the Irish over the last 30 years; not bad for a team that seems to have our number.

If my quick count was right, 17-51 before 1960, then renewed the series a decade later. The all-time series mark of 39-80 looks bad, but we were -34 in the first 50 years, just -7 (22-29) in the 52 years since.

[MU82]

I did not love in Tower but beating ND is always sweet!
Not sure if we ever beat ND in my tenure 1987-1991?  At least it sure didn't feel like it.

Happy to say I did love in Tower fairly often when I lived there as a sophomore!

As for ND, I was fortunate enough to see us go 3-1 against them while I was at MU, including twice when they were a top-10 team with Tripucka, Woolridge, Paxson, etc. One of those wins remains my all-time favorite regular-season Marquette game, when we beat 'em in 1981 at the Arena on Glenn Rivers' heave at the buzzer. Bedlam!

[Newsdreams]

For those who were at the game did Jop really commit a flagrant 2? Even the announcers mentioned from their vantage point they could not tell and I don't recall seeing any replays. Is that call kind of automatic where the refs have no leeway whether it is intentional or not?

The TV replay showed that it was not intentional, should not have been a 2, a 1 yes.

[Shooter McGavin]

For those who were at the game did Jop really commit a flagrant 2? Even the announcers mentioned from their vantage point they could not tell and I don't recall seeing any replays. Is that call kind of automatic where the refs have no leeway whether it is intentional or not?

Could not see anything at the game that looked flagrant. Was shocked when Joplin walked to the locker room.  I was on the other half of the court though.  I watched the replay and it looked unintentional.

[MU82]

Very impressed with the team's response after Jop was sent packing. Speaks highly of both our coaching and on-court leadership.

[Shooter McGavin]

Very impressed with the team's response after Jop was sent packing. Speaks highly of both our coaching and on-court leadership.

Agreed 82.  It was impressive. 

Ultimately you can never speak with absolute certainty about games that should be won on someone else’s home court (an old rival no less) but this was the year to stomp ND on paper.  They have a very mediocre team.  It would have been very disappointing had they lost.  Kudos to the team for playing like the better team and taking care of business.  ND or not, as Dr B said this was a must win game for the state of the program (not necessarily for this year).  Just can’t lose games like these to lesser teams.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

LOL I laugh about Justin takes. It is like Shaka wouldn't know and Bulls don't know what they're doing. I guess we would always be better without our best player next year....

I think people are misunderstanding what I meant. By saying "we don't miss Justin Lewis," I wasn't really saying that we are better without him than we would be with him. I really don't know if we are or aren't. I was simply meaning that we are pretty darn good even without him, and may end up more accomplished by season's end.

Just like the 2012-13 team was without Jae and DJO, yet won the conference regular season and got to the Elite 8.

[MU82]

I think people are misunderstanding what I meant. By saying "we don't miss Justin Lewis," I wasn't really saying that we are better without him than we would be with him. I really don't know if we are or aren't. I was simply meaning that we are pretty darn good even without him, and may end up more accomplished by season's end.

Just like the 2012-13 team was without Jae and DJO, yet won the conference regular season and got to the Elite 8.

Thanks for the clarification. Makes more sense.

My take is that if we had Lewis, we'd have won all 8 games that we did win and we would have won a couple of the games we lost. I have no "proof," it's just my opinion. But sure, maybe by the end of the season (or even sooner), we'll have ended up being a more accomplished sum of the parts than we would have been with him.

[tower912]

Upside of Justin:  Could get his own shot.   Rebounding.  Versatile offensively.

Downside of Justin:  Ball sometimes stops at him.  Not as versatile defensively.

My opinion:  Why on earth would you NOT want a borderline NBA talent in your team?

Unless you are an NBA team.

[Goose]

The one thing that jumped out to me in the Lewis discussion is that the HC made little effort, or so it seemed, to find a replacement for the Lewis role. No doubt, to replace Lewis with one portal guy was not an easy ask, but just maybe, the HC coach felt filling that role with multiple players was the best path to take going into the season. If Lewis had returned, I question if we would have seen the improvement of a slew of guys, especially in a real game.


 

[The Lens]

We’d be really good with Justin bc Shaka would figure it out.

We’re really good without Justin bc Shaka figured it out. 

College basketball ain’t about players it’s about coaches and we got one.  Let’s roll.

[tower912]

Coach probably saw that Omax was ready to step up.   And hoped that Joplin was ready to step up.

[Shooter McGavin]

It will be fun to see Joplins improvement over the course of this season and next.  I trust Shaka to get the best out of him.

[MU82]

The one thing that jumped out to me in the Lewis discussion is that the HC made little effort, or so it seemed, to find a replacement for the Lewis role. No doubt, to replace Lewis with one portal guy was not an easy ask, but just maybe, the HC coach felt filling that role with multiple players was the best path to take going into the season. If Lewis had returned, I question if we would have seen the improvement of a slew of guys, especially in a real game.

From stuff that was written here, Shaka tried pretty hard to get a couple highly rated guys in the portal but couldn't land them. He settled on an NAIA guy who has barely sniffed the court.

As to whether or not others would have developed had Lewis stayed, we'll never know -- although I trust that Shaka and his assistants would have helped them make great strides. I'd say most would have improved plenty and gotten significantly more PT because the departures of Morsell, Kuath and Elliott opened up 66 mpg, but some of their roles certainly would be at least somewhat different.

All I know as I sit here today is that I sure would have liked our chances to get across the finish line against Mississippi State and Madison, and possibly Purdue too, if we had an experienced All-Big East guy to rely on. As I said in a previous post, maybe by February and March we really will find out that we're a better team without Lewis.

[brewcity77]

I think people are misunderstanding what I meant. By saying "we don't miss Justin Lewis," I wasn't really saying that we are better without him than we would be with him. I really don't know if we are or aren't. I was simply meaning that we are pretty darn good even without him, and may end up more accomplished by season's end.

Just like the 2012-13 team was without Jae and DJO, yet won the conference regular season and got to the Elite 8.

Agreed. Would Justin be an asset to this team? Absolutely. But I do think players like Kam, O-Max, and Oso likely wouldn't be having the performances they've been having if JL was still here.

We lost a great player in Justin but still got better as a team, which has been my contention all along.

[Jockey]

The TV replay showed that it was not intentional, should not have been a 2, a 1 yes.

The announcers never discussed whether Joplin worked out with Brad Davison over the summer.

[MU82]

The TV replay showed that it was not intentional, should not have been a 2, a 1 yes.

Seemed pretty similar to the shot Floppy delivered on his buddy Soft Serve, and it should have been a 1 like Floppy got.

But when you can't control yourself while flailing your arms down 'round a fellow competitor's jewels, you leave the door open for extreme punishment.

[Lennys Tap]

Agreed. Would Justin be an asset to this team? Absolutely. But I do think players like Kam, O-Max, and Oso likely wouldn't be having the performances they've been having if JL was still here.

We lost a great player in Justin but still got better as a team, which has been my contention all along.

Sometimes the whole is greater than the sum of its parts (midgets of 2009-10), sometimes it’s worse (sub .500 team with Carton, McEwen, Cain, John, Garcia, Lewis and Elliot).

Lewis was a really good player, but not the type Shaka generally recruits. Shaka adapted, Lewis thrived and the team did pretty well. This year (with less talent due to the subtraction of Lewis) Shaka doesn’t have to adapt. He can play the style he prefers with players he recruited to play that style. I think we’ll be better. Only time will tell.