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Marquette
Marquette

Open Practice

Date/Time: Oct 13, 2023, 6:00 pm
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Schedule for 2023-24
29 - 7

Author Topic: Cupcake State  (Read 5959 times)

rocky_warrior

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Re: Cupcake State
« Reply #50 on: November 27, 2022, 10:08:00 AM »
Do we really have to be so pedantic about this?

My *personal* opinion is that it is lame.  A triple-double is really hard, especially in a 40 min college game.  Redefining it, shouldn't be up to one coach.  Maybe next Shaka decides that a layup is really a dunk that leaves the hand a bit early.  And a 3 is a dunk that leaves the hand really early.  Marquette scores all it's points on dunks!

We’ve heard since Shaka got here that he wants his teams to get at least 32 deflections a game. Setting a defensive mindset.

The fact that one player was able to achieve double digit deflections, almost a third of the team target, Shaka should emphasize it. Those 10 deflections can have just as much, maybe even more, impact on the game than 10 points on the offensive end.

Aha! Highlighting double digit deflections?  I'm ok with that, even though it's not an official stat :)
“Normal is an illusion. What's normal for the spider is chaos for the fly.”  -Morticia Addams

Daniel

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Re: Cupcake State
« Reply #51 on: November 27, 2022, 10:18:31 AM »
We’ve heard since Shaka got here that he wants his teams to get at least 32 deflections a game. Setting a defensive mindset.

The fact that one player was able to achieve double digit deflections, almost a third of the team target, Shaka should emphasize it. Those 10 deflections can have just as much, maybe even more, impact on the game than 10 points on the offensive end.

This.   Deflections is an important stat for Shaka’s system.   A stat they track during games.   Why not celebrate a great deflection reformable.   Call it a Marquette triple double.  Right.  Because that stat is important to this coaching staff.   And they want to highlight great performances within that system. No problem. 
« Last Edit: November 27, 2022, 10:30:38 AM by Daniel »

Goose

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Re: Cupcake State
« Reply #52 on: November 27, 2022, 10:27:39 AM »
Quite honestly, I love all of the negative comments being thrown out about individual players, the team as a whole and Shaka, the coach. Most of these comments ae coming from guys that praised Theo John, Cain and Greg Elliot during their time at MU, yet find every fault in Omax, Kam or Oso. I'll take those three any day of the week over the previous trio. I am looking for those same posters to get down on Sean Jones and Ross after a poor play or game. This program is going the right direction and there are a lot of positives so far this season.

The game last night was a joke, a poor opponent, holiday weekend, nobody at the game and few days away from a big home game and big week. My gut tells me that many on here do not even believe MU will be competitive against Baylor and UW and some are basing their opinion about MU played last night. I will give some scoopers credit for having more enthusiasm for the game last night than the team did. You guys should be the STOG.

I believe that MU will be very competitive against Baylor, with a chance to win and will beat Bucky fairly handily. I said before GA Tech game that I did not have enough of a feel on the team to be confident going against Purdue or MS and I had no idea if they would keep it close or get blown out. This fan is looking forward to two exciting games this week and not concerned about Omax dribbling off his leg or Kam shooting from halfcourt.

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: Cupcake State
« Reply #53 on: November 27, 2022, 10:31:08 AM »
My *personal* opinion is that it is lame.  A triple-double is really hard, especially in a 40 min college game.  Redefining it, shouldn't be up to one coach.  Maybe next Shaka decides that a layup is really a dunk that leaves the hand a bit early.  And a 3 is a dunk that leaves the hand really early.  Marquette scores all it's points on dunks!

He is literally calling it a "Marquette Triple Double." Not sure that's redefining anything.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

Goose

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Re: Cupcake State
« Reply #54 on: November 27, 2022, 10:35:38 AM »
rocky

Are you serious on your post on the Marquette triple double? Of course, it is not a triple double and I do not think anyone in the right mind would call it one. IMO, this nitpicking and highlighting your displeasure with the coach/state of the program.

Elonsmusk

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Re: Cupcake State
« Reply #55 on: November 27, 2022, 10:44:54 AM »
My *personal* opinion is that it is lame.  A triple-double is really hard, especially in a 40 min college game.  Redefining it, shouldn't be up to one coach.  Maybe next Shaka decides that a layup is really a dunk that leaves the hand a bit early.  And a 3 is a dunk that leaves the hand really early.  Marquette scores all it's points on dunks!

Aha! Highlighting double digit deflections?  I'm ok with that, even though it's not an official stat :)

I'd argue it is more difficult to achieve the "Marquette triple double" than a traditional triple double.  Double digit points is definitely an easier milestone than 10 deflections in a game.

rocky_warrior

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Re: Cupcake State
« Reply #56 on: November 27, 2022, 10:45:46 AM »
Are you serious on your post on the Marquette triple double?

Yup.  I'm serious.
“Normal is an illusion. What's normal for the spider is chaos for the fly.”  -Morticia Addams

Goose

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Re: Cupcake State
« Reply #57 on: November 27, 2022, 10:49:37 AM »
Elon

Shaka could make the number of deflections be 55 to make it a "MU triple" and still would be meaningless to some on here. There is segment of scoop that are negative on the program and that will only change if the program starts to win. I get it, we have not won anything of importance in a long time and that has to change. I think we are trending the right direction for long term success and others do not and that is fine.

Viper

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Re: Cupcake State
« Reply #58 on: November 27, 2022, 10:52:56 AM »
Quite honestly, I love all of the negative comments being thrown out about individual players, the team as a whole and Shaka, the coach. Most of these comments ae coming from guys that praised Theo John, Cain and Greg Elliot during their time at MU, yet find every fault in Omax, Kam or Oso. I'll take those three any day of the week over the previous trio. I am looking for those same posters to get down on Sean Jones and Ross after a poor play or game. This program is going the right direction and there are a lot of positives so far this season.

The game last night was a joke, a poor opponent, holiday weekend, nobody at the game and few days away from a big home game and big week. My gut tells me that many on here do not even believe MU will be competitive against Baylor and UW and some are basing their opinion about MU played last night. I will give some scoopers credit for having more enthusiasm for the game last night than the team did. You guys should be the STOG.

I believe that MU will be very competitive against Baylor, with a chance to win and will beat Bucky fairly handily. I said before GA Tech game that I did not have enough of a feel on the team to be confident going against Purdue or MS and I had no idea if they would keep it close or get blown out. This fan is looking forward to two exciting games this week and not concerned about Omax dribbling off his leg or Kam shooting from halfcourt.
I’m ok w/Kam. Shoot to get hot, shoot to stay hot. In game mistakes happen, let the fellas play without fear of pine time!

Goose

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Re: Cupcake State
« Reply #59 on: November 27, 2022, 11:00:31 AM »
Viper

First, Kam is not the shooter that Marcus Howard was and that is not debatable. What we can debate is why Kam is a chucker and if it helps the team or not. Marcus routinely shot 25 times a games (with a high % of made shots) on a team that had other guys who actually could shoot as well and we debated if that helped the team win for several years. I did not look at exact numbers, but I am betting Kam is taking 12-14 shots a game on a team with limited shooters. IMO, right now he is like Carlino, shoot the ball until someone proves they can shoot it better. To be a good team we do not need Kam to chuck it up, but until others start making shots, he needs to fire it up. The goal is 4-5 guys making WIDE OPEN shots and not Kam shooting from half court.

Elonsmusk

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Re: Cupcake State
« Reply #60 on: November 27, 2022, 11:03:08 AM »
Elon

Shaka could make the number of deflections be 55 to make it a "MU triple" and still would be meaningless to some on here. There is segment of scoop that are negative on the program and that will only change if the program starts to win. I get it, we have not won anything of importance in a long time and that has to change. I think we are trending the right direction for long term success and others do not and that is fine.

It is an interesting dynamic here on Scoop.  The Projos are low key Shaka critics, and the Nojos are big Shaka fans. 

No doubt our fanbase is hungry for some NCAA tournament success.  I'd like to see it this year and think it is possible that we can get the monkey off our back and win a first round game.  I see next year as the breakthrough year to where a legitimate Sweet 16 appearance seems realistic assuming the return of all players.  A track record of NCAA tournament, Round of 32, and Sweet 16 in Shaka's first 3 years would be fantastic given the depths the program had slumped to under Wojo.

Goose

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Re: Cupcake State
« Reply #61 on: November 27, 2022, 11:09:50 AM »
Elon

Anyone that truly believes that the program is not in better hands with Shaka in charge simply are lying or "they don't know ball". I am not surprised by the negative comments on Shaka/the program and outside of scoop almost every person I talk to about MU is very positive on Shaka and the way things are progressing.

panda

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Re: Cupcake State
« Reply #62 on: November 27, 2022, 11:23:38 AM »
Elon

Anyone that truly believes that the program is not in better hands with Shaka in charge simply are lying or "they don't know ball". I am not surprised by the negative comments on Shaka/the program and outside of scoop almost every person I talk to about MU is very positive on Shaka and the way things are progressing.

Who believes this ?

rocky_warrior

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Re: Cupcake State
« Reply #63 on: November 27, 2022, 11:27:02 AM »
Some here would like to make this discussion an "us vs them" thing, I don't see it that way

* Of course Shaka is a better coach than Wojo (not sure I've ever compared them)
* We all want MU success (well, most...)
* I am skeptical Shaka can get MU there
* I have been disappointed with his recruiting and portal work
* I don't have high expectations this year (nor last year), I do have high hopes for next year
* The "Marquette Triple Double" sounds like a Marquette Gyros (RIP) menu item.
“Normal is an illusion. What's normal for the spider is chaos for the fly.”  -Morticia Addams

Small Orange Soda

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Re: Cupcake State
« Reply #64 on: November 27, 2022, 11:30:08 AM »
Anyone that truly believes that the program is not in better hands with Shaka in charge simply are lying or "they don't know ball". I am not surprised by the negative comments on Shaka/the program and outside of scoop almost every person I talk to about MU is very positive on Shaka and the way things are progressing.

I think the vast majority of Scoop believes Shaka is better than Wojo, but there are some who claim that yet have whined more about Shaka in a year and change than they did during Wojo's seven year tenure. That's not to say he's above criticism (Not using the final scholarship on a starter level player was a mistake, IMO).

But Scoop is a merely a microcosm of the fanbase. I was surprised to see how many people were still in on Wojo when every Marquette fan I knew wanted him gone or had checked out. The level of negativity on here is surprising to me, but hopefully we'll get some wins coming up and turn the tide.

tower912

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Re: Cupcake State
« Reply #65 on: November 27, 2022, 11:41:43 AM »
I wanted Wojo to succeed, I want Shaka to succeed.
I had my doubts when Wojo was hired, I had (fewer) doubts when Shaka was hired.

My concerns about Wojo's recruiting were the lack of athletic wings and big guards. 

My concern about Shaka's recruiting is the lack of bulk up front.

I prefer Shaka's pressure defense and faster pace on offense.  I really enjoyed the generational talent that was Markus.

I recognize that Shaka's record at Texas was remarkably similar to Wojo's at MU.

Shaka is the MU coach and I like him.  His success is MU's success.

Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: Cupcake State
« Reply #66 on: November 27, 2022, 11:46:48 AM »
It is an interesting dynamic here on Scoop.  The Projos are low key Shaka critics, and the Nojos are big Shaka fans. 


Not only is this not accurate, it really is time for you to stop living in the past. Move on.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

Tha Hound

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Re: Cupcake State
« Reply #67 on: November 27, 2022, 11:51:46 AM »
Just me, but lame.  They mentioned it on the broadcast last night, so clearly it's been a Shaka talking point for a few days.  And if the players enjoy it - great.  But...it's not a triple double.

Lmao "its not a triple double" - No way!! How could someone like Shaka not know that?

Tha Hound

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Re: Cupcake State
« Reply #68 on: November 27, 2022, 11:53:02 AM »
Reading posts here the last couple weeks have led me to think I'm actually a glass half full guy (compared to most of the clowns on this board). Shocking development in the hound household.

jfp61

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Re: Cupcake State
« Reply #69 on: November 27, 2022, 12:13:56 PM »
It was a lousy game.
Lousy TV coverage (women's Vball).
Lousy commentators.
Lousy effort.
Lousy crowd.
Lousy play.

Just have to chalk it up to a cupcake on a holiday weekend before a couple of meaningful games.

Lousy scheduling.

Wojo schedule this game in 2019. Haha

PGsHeroes32

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Re: Cupcake State
« Reply #70 on: November 27, 2022, 12:18:10 PM »
It is an interesting dynamic here on Scoop.  The Projos are low key Shaka critics, and the Nojos are big Shaka fans. 

No doubt our fanbase is hungry for some NCAA tournament success.  I'd like to see it this year and think it is possible that we can get the monkey off our back and win a first round game.  I see next year as the breakthrough year to where a legitimate Sweet 16 appearance seems realistic assuming the return of all players.  A track record of NCAA tournament, Round of 32, and Sweet 16 in Shaka's first 3 years would be fantastic given the depths the program had slumped to under Wojo.

Your obsession is legitamately fu cking weird
Lazar picking up where the BIG 3 left off....

MU82

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Re: Cupcake State
« Reply #71 on: November 27, 2022, 12:28:04 PM »
I wanted Wojo to succeed, I want Shaka to succeed.
I had my doubts when Wojo was hired, I had (fewer) doubts when Shaka was hired.

My concerns about Wojo's recruiting were the lack of athletic wings and big guards. 

My concern about Shaka's recruiting is the lack of bulk up front.

I prefer Shaka's pressure defense and faster pace on offense.  I really enjoyed the generational talent that was Markus.

I recognize that Shaka's record at Texas was remarkably similar to Wojo's at MU.

Shaka is the MU coach and I like him.  His success is MU's success.

Spoken like a true Projo who hates Shaka and all of our current players!

Because everything has to be black and white with absolutely nothing in between. Saying one appreciates all the good stuff O-Max does but wishing he'd slow down a little obviously is akin to "hating" him. Wishing Kam wouldn't take two dribbles past the mid-court line and launching an early-clock 3 even though he's been ice-cold all game? Such hate. Saying that Kolek is an excellent distributor but hoping he shoots better? Pure hate! Criticizing Shaka for not fouling up 3 or for overseeing a late-season collapse or for not bringing in a backup 5 ... that's just a bunch of Projos who thought Theo John was a first-team All-American and who wish MU would have stayed with Wojo instead of hiring Shaka.
"You are not serious people." - Logan Roy

Goose

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Re: Cupcake State
« Reply #72 on: November 27, 2022, 12:49:59 PM »
rocky

You are disappointed in Shaka's recruiting and use of the transfer portal is quite telling to me. I do not think you have to be a college basketball expert to be excited over the two freshman guards on the team and I think Ben Gold will be a very nice addition to the system and possibly as soon as later this year. Kur, Morsell, Kolek and Omax were great transfer portal pick-ups, with two of them likely being 3-4 year starters. You might not like the type of guys he has brought in, but to be disappointed in his recruiting thus far seems to be a stretch to me. I'll gladly build a backcourt around Sean and Ross.

Shaka has been here roughly 18 months and has only brought in athletic basketball players to date. Now, if you want to argue the makeup of the roster, I think someone could make an intelligent argument regarding the lack of size.

panda

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Re: Cupcake State
« Reply #73 on: November 27, 2022, 12:59:14 PM »
Portal criticism is half valid this year. Swing and a miss on a backup center, however it’s no surprise as bates and Washington are both starting and playing major roles at butler and asu. Last year, no way you can criticize what he did in the portal. A+

Jury still out on high school recruiting although all three guys this season look like players and the incoming freshman next season appear to be the same.

My opinion, Shaka needs to utilize the portal for bigs and high school recruiting for most other needs. It’s very difficult for Marquette to find bigs ready to play day 1 out of high school.

MU82

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Re: Cupcake State
« Reply #74 on: November 27, 2022, 01:06:03 PM »
Now, if you want to argue the makeup of the roster, I think someone could make an intelligent argument regarding the lack of size.

Careful, Goose, that's Projo talk right there.
"You are not serious people." - Logan Roy