MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: tower912 on November 26, 2022, 09:39:56 PM
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1. By the end, all I really cared about was how close roqqet's computer came. Not very.
2. I like how Sean seeks contact. Anybody still saying he is ready to take the PG job from Kolek is deranged.
3. Joplin looks like his confidence has been shaken.
4. Oso fouled out against Chicago St.
5. MU did not attack the zone as efficiently as they have at other times this year.
6. I think Shaka and Kam are having a battle of wills right now. Good vs bad shot.
7. Knowing that team free throw shooting percentage doesn't matter as much as how often they shoot it doesn't make it easier to watch.
9. A Shaka coached MU team has not yet lost to a cupcake.
10 Bring on Baylor.
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Sean Jones and Ross need to play more.
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Never in doubt, but completely uninspiring.
Can we give Cardet some NIL money to transfer over immediately?
It’s one thing to shoot 30% from 3. It’s another to shoot 30% on wide open 3 pointers. You need shooting in today’s game, at any level. We don’t have them.
I hope I’m wrong, but I don’t think the next couple weeks are going to be much fun.
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NIT high ceiling
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NIT high ceiling
Psh. They can't even make it to Atlantis
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We won
Nobody got hurt
Freshman played a lot of minutes
Next game
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Psh. They can't even make it to Atlantis
They don't want us...
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Never in doubt, but completely uninspiring.
Can we give Cardet some NIL money to transfer over immediately?
It’s one thing to shoot 30% from 3. It’s another to shoot 30% on wide open 3 pointers. You need shooting in today’s game, at any level. We don’t have them.
I hope I’m wrong, but I don’t think the next couple weeks are going to be much fun.
Exactly with three pointers. They shoot their usual 30% threes, miss free throws (12 missed tonight) and Oso in foul trouble, gonna get smoked by Baylor. Need all facets to come together and win. Maybe a better crowd will help, but that was pretty messy and boring.
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Meh. If we keep playing like that, gonna have lots of losses before the end of 2022.
But for now I’ll chalk it up to ye olde “playing down to the competition” and hope for a lot better against Baylor, Madison, ND, Creighton, etc.
Besides, it’s hard to be too grumpy when MU wins on the basketball court and ND and Madison both lose on the football field the same day.
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It was a lousy game.
Lousy TV coverage (women's Vball).
Lousy commentators.
Lousy effort.
Lousy crowd.
Lousy play.
Just have to chalk it up to a cupcake on a holiday weekend before a couple of meaningful games.
Lousy scheduling.
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Started slow, took it over and got up by 22. The zone and lacksadaisical play let them get back to a closer final deficit, but it never felt like this was in much doubt. Looking forward to Tuesday. Feel better about it than I did a month ago.
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It was a lousy game.
Lousy TV coverage (women's Vball).
Lousy commentators.
Lousy effort.
Lousy crowd.
Lousy play.
Just have to chalk it up to a cupcake on a holiday weekend before a couple of meaningful games.
Lousy scheduling.
We suck
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Post-Thanksgiving hangover game against a soft opponent. Can't put too much stock in it either way. I hope and expect to see a much more inspired effort Tuesday. It may not be enough against Baylor, but hopefully we raise our level of play quite a bit from tonight. Put this one in the rear-view mirror.
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Congratulations to the team for another win.
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chill on the commentator hate. its like foxs 9th string. they were fine.
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I turned over to college football at halftime...
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This game was a slog, and I have to chalk some of it up to very low energy amongst the team, the coaches, the crowd. Having said that, when I looked up with 15 to go and we were up 16, I said huh, well, sometimes it will be a slog. As Shaka said post game, many many teams have lost this type of game over the last couple weeks, and we need to get better and being dialed in all the time, in all situations, against all opponents. On to Baylor!
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It was a lousy game.
Lousy TV coverage (women's Vball).
Lousy commentators.
Lousy effort.
Lousy crowd.
Lousy play.
Just have to chalk it up to a cupcake on a holiday weekend before a couple of meaningful games.
Lousy scheduling.
Hard to argue with all of the above.
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MU shoots like crap against both good teams and awful teams.
That's not going to get better, folks. This is who MU is and bad shooters are who Shaka recruited, so he obviously doesn't put a premium on that facet of the game.
We'll see if he's right.
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Started slow, took it over and got up by 22. The zone and lacksadaisical play let them get back to a closer final deficit, but it never felt like this was in much doubt. Looking forward to Tuesday. Feel better about it than I did a month ago.
“lackadaisical”
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Dickey was 8/10 on the stoned scale.
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hi no longer im just wondering if you are a genuine MU fan or not. you can DM me if you dont want it to be public. seems like virtually all of your posts are pessamistic and trollish like you want a reaction out of som1. whats the point? thanks
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hi no longer im just wondering if you are a genuine MU fan or not. you can DM me if you dont want it to be public. seems like virtually all of your posts are pessamistic and trollish like you want a reaction out of som1. whats the point? thanks
Johnny….he is not. Hes not hiding it. Hes a Badger fan. Its not hard to figure out.
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What thoughts do you all have about shot distribution? Which three players should be taking the most FGA's for the Warriors?
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Johnny….he is not. Hes not hiding it. Hes a Badger fan. Its not hard to figure out.
I mean, he's obscure about it. But clearly likes Gard and follows MU closely and doesn't think they can shoot well (and, to this point, has a point). But this post was one of his more obvious:
You guys are going to be screaming "REBOUND!!" a lot this year.
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hi no longer im just wondering if you are a genuine MU fan or not. you can DM me if you dont want it to be public. seems like virtually all of your posts are pessamistic and trollish like you want a reaction out of som1. whats the point? thanks
He’s probably warriorcaptain55/56 or whatever his name was
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Started slow, took it over and got up by 22. The zone and lacksadaisical play let them get back to a closer final deficit, but it never felt like this was in much doubt. Looking forward to Tuesday. Feel better about it than I did a month ago.
Never in doubt. Hard to keep focus up 20. It was a qin.
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Never in doubt, but completely uninspiring.
Can we give Cardet some NIL money to transfer over immediately?
It’s one thing to shoot 30% from 3. It’s another to shoot 30% on wide open 3 pointers. You need shooting in today’s game, at any level. We don’t have them.
I hope I’m wrong, but I don’t think the next couple weeks are going to be much fun.
Wades you have been so optimistic this year I was surprised when I read this, especially your last sentence.
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Johnny….he is not. Hes not hiding it. Hes a Badger fan. Its not hard to figure out.
It’s the politics that he doesn’t like. Started in 2020 under Wojo and continued with Shaka.
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hi no longer im just wondering if you are a genuine MU fan or not. you can DM me if you dont want it to be public. seems like virtually all of your posts are pessamistic and trollish like you want a reaction out of som1. whats the point? thanks
In addition to having a Bo/Gard chubby, NlW is like Procol Harum: He prefers his athletes, coaches and programs to be a whiter shade of pale. It was bad enough that Marquette embraced the concept that Black lives matter; when we actually hired "one of them" as coach, that was the last straw for him.
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This game was a slog, and I have to chalk some of it up to very low energy amongst the team, the coaches, the crowd.
#2Houston was a 19-point favorite over Kent St and won by 5 at home.
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#2Houston was a 19-point favorite over Kent St and won by 5 at home.
COLE
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MU has not lost a cupcake game under coach Smart. Last night wasn't a great game. But it wasn't an L.
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MU has not lost a cupcake game under coach Smart. Last night wasn't a great game. But it wasn't an L.
Didn't cover....loss
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The fact no one has been fired or a scholarship taken tells me all I need to know
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1v9RFz5AVYk
Shaka post game.
Shaka talking about Oso and his Marquette triple double.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENWWZwz7luc
Omax and Sean
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Coming back from Ft Myers with two huge games coming up this week, this was an obvious let down game. No need to read more into it than that.
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Shaka talking about Oso and his Marquette triple double.
Just me, but lame. They mentioned it on the broadcast last night, so clearly it's been a Shaka talking point for a few days. And if the players enjoy it - great. But...it's not a triple double.
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Yeah it's not an actual triple double, but I completely get why Shaka is emphasizing it and praising Oso for it.
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It is Coach Smart trying to insulate his team from criticism. You can see it in all the negativity here. And the players know what the critics are saying.
Oso sucks. Oso went for a double double and had 10 deflections. Let's pump Oso up.
Omax is bad basketball player. Omax went for a double double. Omax still sucks. Shaka acknowledged and rewarded his effort and game.
TK sucks. He is shooting 40% from 3 and is among the national leaders in assists.
So, Rocky, sure, to you, and to a lot of other message board denizens, it is a lame stat. To Coach Smart, and what he is trying to draw out of these guys and build, it is something to be celebrated.
MU wanted a change from Buzz and chose Wojo. They wanted a change from Wojo and chose Shaka. This is what we have for the foreseeable future. Both from a roster standpoint and a culture standpoint.
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It is Coach Smart trying to insulate his team from criticism.
Uh. Ok. Oso responded by fouling out. Though particularly the last foul was laughable.
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Uh, ok.
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A Shaka triple double. Alas still not a real triple double. Nothing wrong with saying that.
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A Shaka triple double. Alas still not a real triple double. Nothing wrong with saying that.
Every single person on here knows it’s not a real triple double. So what’s the point?
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An insight into how Shaka sees the game.
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Every single person on here knows it’s not a real triple double. So what’s the point?
That it’s not a real triple double
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We’ve heard since Shaka got here that he wants his teams to get at least 32 deflections a game. Setting a defensive mindset.
The fact that one player was able to achieve double digit deflections, almost a third of the team target, Shaka should emphasize it. Those 10 deflections can have just as much, maybe even more, impact on the game than 10 points on the offensive end.
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Do we really have to be so pedantic about this? Who cares that it isn’t “real.” It just highlighting what Shaka wants.
I know we are by and large joking about the MOPE stuff, but not everything requires a negative comment. It’s just basketball.
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It is Coach Smart trying to insulate his team from criticism. You can see it in all the negativity here. And the players know what the critics are saying.
Oso sucks. Oso went for a double double and had 10 deflections. Let's pump Oso up.
Omax is bad basketball player. Omax went for a double double. Omax still sucks. Shaka acknowledged and rewarded his effort and game.
TK sucks. He is shooting 40% from 3 and is among the national leaders in assists.
So, Rocky, sure, to you, and to a lot of other message board denizens, it is a lame stat. To Coach Smart, and what he is trying to draw out of these guys and build, it is something to be celebrated.
MU wanted a change from Buzz and chose Wojo. They wanted a change from Wojo and chose Shaka. This is what we have for the foreseeable future. Both from a roster standpoint and a culture standpoint.
Quality bit here. Well done.
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That it’s not a real triple double
Good point. I had not considered that.
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Do we really have to be so pedantic about this?
My *personal* opinion is that it is lame. A triple-double is really hard, especially in a 40 min college game. Redefining it, shouldn't be up to one coach. Maybe next Shaka decides that a layup is really a dunk that leaves the hand a bit early. And a 3 is a dunk that leaves the hand really early. Marquette scores all it's points on dunks!
We’ve heard since Shaka got here that he wants his teams to get at least 32 deflections a game. Setting a defensive mindset.
The fact that one player was able to achieve double digit deflections, almost a third of the team target, Shaka should emphasize it. Those 10 deflections can have just as much, maybe even more, impact on the game than 10 points on the offensive end.
Aha! Highlighting double digit deflections? I'm ok with that, even though it's not an official stat :)
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We’ve heard since Shaka got here that he wants his teams to get at least 32 deflections a game. Setting a defensive mindset.
The fact that one player was able to achieve double digit deflections, almost a third of the team target, Shaka should emphasize it. Those 10 deflections can have just as much, maybe even more, impact on the game than 10 points on the offensive end.
This. Deflections is an important stat for Shaka’s system. A stat they track during games. Why not celebrate a great deflection reformable. Call it a Marquette triple double. Right. Because that stat is important to this coaching staff. And they want to highlight great performances within that system. No problem.
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Quite honestly, I love all of the negative comments being thrown out about individual players, the team as a whole and Shaka, the coach. Most of these comments ae coming from guys that praised Theo John, Cain and Greg Elliot during their time at MU, yet find every fault in Omax, Kam or Oso. I'll take those three any day of the week over the previous trio. I am looking for those same posters to get down on Sean Jones and Ross after a poor play or game. This program is going the right direction and there are a lot of positives so far this season.
The game last night was a joke, a poor opponent, holiday weekend, nobody at the game and few days away from a big home game and big week. My gut tells me that many on here do not even believe MU will be competitive against Baylor and UW and some are basing their opinion about MU played last night. I will give some scoopers credit for having more enthusiasm for the game last night than the team did. You guys should be the STOG.
I believe that MU will be very competitive against Baylor, with a chance to win and will beat Bucky fairly handily. I said before GA Tech game that I did not have enough of a feel on the team to be confident going against Purdue or MS and I had no idea if they would keep it close or get blown out. This fan is looking forward to two exciting games this week and not concerned about Omax dribbling off his leg or Kam shooting from halfcourt.
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My *personal* opinion is that it is lame. A triple-double is really hard, especially in a 40 min college game. Redefining it, shouldn't be up to one coach. Maybe next Shaka decides that a layup is really a dunk that leaves the hand a bit early. And a 3 is a dunk that leaves the hand really early. Marquette scores all it's points on dunks!
He is literally calling it a "Marquette Triple Double." Not sure that's redefining anything.
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rocky
Are you serious on your post on the Marquette triple double? Of course, it is not a triple double and I do not think anyone in the right mind would call it one. IMO, this nitpicking and highlighting your displeasure with the coach/state of the program.
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My *personal* opinion is that it is lame. A triple-double is really hard, especially in a 40 min college game. Redefining it, shouldn't be up to one coach. Maybe next Shaka decides that a layup is really a dunk that leaves the hand a bit early. And a 3 is a dunk that leaves the hand really early. Marquette scores all it's points on dunks!
Aha! Highlighting double digit deflections? I'm ok with that, even though it's not an official stat :)
I'd argue it is more difficult to achieve the "Marquette triple double" than a traditional triple double. Double digit points is definitely an easier milestone than 10 deflections in a game.
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Are you serious on your post on the Marquette triple double?
Yup. I'm serious.
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Elon
Shaka could make the number of deflections be 55 to make it a "MU triple" and still would be meaningless to some on here. There is segment of scoop that are negative on the program and that will only change if the program starts to win. I get it, we have not won anything of importance in a long time and that has to change. I think we are trending the right direction for long term success and others do not and that is fine.
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Quite honestly, I love all of the negative comments being thrown out about individual players, the team as a whole and Shaka, the coach. Most of these comments ae coming from guys that praised Theo John, Cain and Greg Elliot during their time at MU, yet find every fault in Omax, Kam or Oso. I'll take those three any day of the week over the previous trio. I am looking for those same posters to get down on Sean Jones and Ross after a poor play or game. This program is going the right direction and there are a lot of positives so far this season.
The game last night was a joke, a poor opponent, holiday weekend, nobody at the game and few days away from a big home game and big week. My gut tells me that many on here do not even believe MU will be competitive against Baylor and UW and some are basing their opinion about MU played last night. I will give some scoopers credit for having more enthusiasm for the game last night than the team did. You guys should be the STOG.
I believe that MU will be very competitive against Baylor, with a chance to win and will beat Bucky fairly handily. I said before GA Tech game that I did not have enough of a feel on the team to be confident going against Purdue or MS and I had no idea if they would keep it close or get blown out. This fan is looking forward to two exciting games this week and not concerned about Omax dribbling off his leg or Kam shooting from halfcourt.
I’m ok w/Kam. Shoot to get hot, shoot to stay hot. In game mistakes happen, let the fellas play without fear of pine time!
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Viper
First, Kam is not the shooter that Marcus Howard was and that is not debatable. What we can debate is why Kam is a chucker and if it helps the team or not. Marcus routinely shot 25 times a games (with a high % of made shots) on a team that had other guys who actually could shoot as well and we debated if that helped the team win for several years. I did not look at exact numbers, but I am betting Kam is taking 12-14 shots a game on a team with limited shooters. IMO, right now he is like Carlino, shoot the ball until someone proves they can shoot it better. To be a good team we do not need Kam to chuck it up, but until others start making shots, he needs to fire it up. The goal is 4-5 guys making WIDE OPEN shots and not Kam shooting from half court.
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Elon
Shaka could make the number of deflections be 55 to make it a "MU triple" and still would be meaningless to some on here. There is segment of scoop that are negative on the program and that will only change if the program starts to win. I get it, we have not won anything of importance in a long time and that has to change. I think we are trending the right direction for long term success and others do not and that is fine.
It is an interesting dynamic here on Scoop. The Projos are low key Shaka critics, and the Nojos are big Shaka fans.
No doubt our fanbase is hungry for some NCAA tournament success. I'd like to see it this year and think it is possible that we can get the monkey off our back and win a first round game. I see next year as the breakthrough year to where a legitimate Sweet 16 appearance seems realistic assuming the return of all players. A track record of NCAA tournament, Round of 32, and Sweet 16 in Shaka's first 3 years would be fantastic given the depths the program had slumped to under Wojo.
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Elon
Anyone that truly believes that the program is not in better hands with Shaka in charge simply are lying or "they don't know ball". I am not surprised by the negative comments on Shaka/the program and outside of scoop almost every person I talk to about MU is very positive on Shaka and the way things are progressing.
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Elon
Anyone that truly believes that the program is not in better hands with Shaka in charge simply are lying or "they don't know ball". I am not surprised by the negative comments on Shaka/the program and outside of scoop almost every person I talk to about MU is very positive on Shaka and the way things are progressing.
Who believes this ?
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Some here would like to make this discussion an "us vs them" thing, I don't see it that way
* Of course Shaka is a better coach than Wojo (not sure I've ever compared them)
* We all want MU success (well, most...)
* I am skeptical Shaka can get MU there
* I have been disappointed with his recruiting and portal work
* I don't have high expectations this year (nor last year), I do have high hopes for next year
* The "Marquette Triple Double" sounds like a Marquette Gyros (RIP) menu item.
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Anyone that truly believes that the program is not in better hands with Shaka in charge simply are lying or "they don't know ball". I am not surprised by the negative comments on Shaka/the program and outside of scoop almost every person I talk to about MU is very positive on Shaka and the way things are progressing.
I think the vast majority of Scoop believes Shaka is better than Wojo, but there are some who claim that yet have whined more about Shaka in a year and change than they did during Wojo's seven year tenure. That's not to say he's above criticism (Not using the final scholarship on a starter level player was a mistake, IMO).
But Scoop is a merely a microcosm of the fanbase. I was surprised to see how many people were still in on Wojo when every Marquette fan I knew wanted him gone or had checked out. The level of negativity on here is surprising to me, but hopefully we'll get some wins coming up and turn the tide.
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I wanted Wojo to succeed, I want Shaka to succeed.
I had my doubts when Wojo was hired, I had (fewer) doubts when Shaka was hired.
My concerns about Wojo's recruiting were the lack of athletic wings and big guards.
My concern about Shaka's recruiting is the lack of bulk up front.
I prefer Shaka's pressure defense and faster pace on offense. I really enjoyed the generational talent that was Markus.
I recognize that Shaka's record at Texas was remarkably similar to Wojo's at MU.
Shaka is the MU coach and I like him. His success is MU's success.
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It is an interesting dynamic here on Scoop. The Projos are low key Shaka critics, and the Nojos are big Shaka fans.
Not only is this not accurate, it really is time for you to stop living in the past. Move on.
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Just me, but lame. They mentioned it on the broadcast last night, so clearly it's been a Shaka talking point for a few days. And if the players enjoy it - great. But...it's not a triple double.
Lmao "its not a triple double" - No way!! How could someone like Shaka not know that?
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Reading posts here the last couple weeks have led me to think I'm actually a glass half full guy (compared to most of the clowns on this board). Shocking development in the hound household.
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It was a lousy game.
Lousy TV coverage (women's Vball).
Lousy commentators.
Lousy effort.
Lousy crowd.
Lousy play.
Just have to chalk it up to a cupcake on a holiday weekend before a couple of meaningful games.
Lousy scheduling.
Wojo schedule this game in 2019. Haha
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It is an interesting dynamic here on Scoop. The Projos are low key Shaka critics, and the Nojos are big Shaka fans.
No doubt our fanbase is hungry for some NCAA tournament success. I'd like to see it this year and think it is possible that we can get the monkey off our back and win a first round game. I see next year as the breakthrough year to where a legitimate Sweet 16 appearance seems realistic assuming the return of all players. A track record of NCAA tournament, Round of 32, and Sweet 16 in Shaka's first 3 years would be fantastic given the depths the program had slumped to under Wojo.
Your obsession is legitamately fu cking weird
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I wanted Wojo to succeed, I want Shaka to succeed.
I had my doubts when Wojo was hired, I had (fewer) doubts when Shaka was hired.
My concerns about Wojo's recruiting were the lack of athletic wings and big guards.
My concern about Shaka's recruiting is the lack of bulk up front.
I prefer Shaka's pressure defense and faster pace on offense. I really enjoyed the generational talent that was Markus.
I recognize that Shaka's record at Texas was remarkably similar to Wojo's at MU.
Shaka is the MU coach and I like him. His success is MU's success.
Spoken like a true Projo who hates Shaka and all of our current players!
Because everything has to be black and white with absolutely nothing in between. Saying one appreciates all the good stuff O-Max does but wishing he'd slow down a little obviously is akin to "hating" him. Wishing Kam wouldn't take two dribbles past the mid-court line and launching an early-clock 3 even though he's been ice-cold all game? Such hate. Saying that Kolek is an excellent distributor but hoping he shoots better? Pure hate! Criticizing Shaka for not fouling up 3 or for overseeing a late-season collapse or for not bringing in a backup 5 ... that's just a bunch of Projos who thought Theo John was a first-team All-American and who wish MU would have stayed with Wojo instead of hiring Shaka.
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rocky
You are disappointed in Shaka's recruiting and use of the transfer portal is quite telling to me. I do not think you have to be a college basketball expert to be excited over the two freshman guards on the team and I think Ben Gold will be a very nice addition to the system and possibly as soon as later this year. Kur, Morsell, Kolek and Omax were great transfer portal pick-ups, with two of them likely being 3-4 year starters. You might not like the type of guys he has brought in, but to be disappointed in his recruiting thus far seems to be a stretch to me. I'll gladly build a backcourt around Sean and Ross.
Shaka has been here roughly 18 months and has only brought in athletic basketball players to date. Now, if you want to argue the makeup of the roster, I think someone could make an intelligent argument regarding the lack of size.
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Portal criticism is half valid this year. Swing and a miss on a backup center, however it’s no surprise as bates and Washington are both starting and playing major roles at butler and asu. Last year, no way you can criticize what he did in the portal. A+
Jury still out on high school recruiting although all three guys this season look like players and the incoming freshman next season appear to be the same.
My opinion, Shaka needs to utilize the portal for bigs and high school recruiting for most other needs. It’s very difficult for Marquette to find bigs ready to play day 1 out of high school.
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Now, if you want to argue the makeup of the roster, I think someone could make an intelligent argument regarding the lack of size.
Careful, Goose, that's Projo talk right there.
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Panda
Shaka has stated that he would like to get guys from the portal that are more than one-year guys, if possible. There is no doubt this team would be better with an experienced big guy that could play and I thought he would land one. With the number of guys in the transfer portal I would be very surprised if Shaka could not have landed one and for whatever reason he went with the guys he had coming back.
I do struggle to see how the jury is still out on HS recruiting, simply based off the two guards on the team. That is a backcourt you build around and both will play decent minutes this season. To date, based off a small size, I would give this class a very high grade.
For the record, I was surprised that portal was not used this year and will be shocked if it is not used after this season.
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Do we really have to be so pedantic about this? Who cares that it isn’t “real.” It just highlighting what Shaka wants.
I know we are by and large joking about the MOPE stuff, but not everything requires a negative comment. It’s just basketball.
100% agree.
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Panda
Shaka has stated that he would like to get guys from the portal that are more than one-year guys, if possible. There is no doubt this team would be better with an experienced big guy that could play and I thought he would land one. With the number of guys in the transfer portal I would be very surprised if Shaka could not have landed one and for whatever reason he went with the guys he had coming back.
I do struggle to see how the jury is still out on HS recruiting, simply based off the two guards on the team. That is a backcourt you build around and both will play decent minutes this season. To date, based off a small size, I would give this class a very high grade.
For the record, I was surprised that portal was not used this year and will be shocked if it is not used after this season.
Jury still out is not an indictment on his hs recruiting but rather, it’s too early to judge whether these kids are successes or failures.
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panda
Well, then it probably is too early to be questioning his HC recruiting chops. If he was a new HC with no HC recruiting experience, I could see possibly a wait and see, but the man has been an elite recruiter for quite some time. That being said, anyone that is not excited over Ross and Sean probably will only be excited if he gets guys with 4 or 5 stars next to their names.
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It is an interesting dynamic here on Scoop. The Projos are low key Shaka critics, and the Nojos are big Shaka fans.
No doubt our fanbase is hungry for some NCAA tournament success. I'd like to see it this year and think it is possible that we can get the monkey off our back and win a first round game. I see next year as the breakthrough year to where a legitimate Sweet 16 appearance seems realistic assuming the return of all players. A track record of NCAA tournament, Round of 32, and Sweet 16 in Shaka's first 3 years would be fantastic given the depths the program had slumped to under Wojo.
Agree with this as well. It is an interesting dynamic. I think success this year (unexpected for some) will have every fanatic on board going forward. A run in the tournament next year would have the casual fan base all in.
Let’s have a good couple of weeks and at least go 2-2 against Baylor, UWM, ND and Creighton which is likely in my opinion. Would love a 3-1 mark to surpass even the most optimistic expectations.
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Shaka playing mind games with Scoop
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Shaka has stated that he would like to get guys from the portal that are more than one-year guys, if possible. There is no doubt this team would be better with an experienced big guy that could play and I thought he would land one. With the number of guys in the transfer portal I would be very surprised if Shaka could not have landed one and for whatever reason he went with the guys he had coming back.
First, I don't doubt Shaka (or any coach for that matter) would want players who will give him more than one year. However, Morsell, Kuath, and Wrightsil demonstrate that desire is not ironclad.
Second, even if you want this as a general policy, the scholarship situation with Lewis' departure this year was tailor-made for a one-year player. Taking a two+ year transfer would exacerbate the oversigned situation MU is already facing.
I'm fine with a general "I prefer multi-year players over single-year players" preference. But 3 of the 5 transfers Shaka has taken so far (Morsell, Kuath and Wrightsil) are one-year players, so I don't think a multi-year preference rule explains the thin frontcourt.
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Equalizer
We needed bodies to fill a roster year and Shaka did a very good job of that. I agree that I was surprised he did not replace Lewis with a one year guy for this season.
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Equalizer
We needed bodies to fill a roster year and Shaka did a very good job of that. I agree that I was surprised he did not replace Lewis with a one year guy for this season.
He did - Wrightsil. We'll see how that plays out.
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Yes, if only Wrightsil had shown himself to be the high energy dervish he was at his last stop, or 6'7 for that matter.
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Yes, if only Wrightsil had shown himself to be the high energy dervish he was at his last stop, or 6'7 for that matter.
I'm hoping that Wrightsil gets healthy (assuming that injury is limiting him) so we can see if his skills translate to this level.
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You are disappointed in Shaka's recruiting and use of the transfer portal is quite telling to me.
[snip]
Now, if you want to argue the makeup of the roster, I think someone could make an intelligent argument regarding the lack of size.
I guess I don't see how poor roster construction is any different than recruiting/portal disappointment. Semantics perhaps.
Yes, Ross and S Jones look promising. But this year we're missing players that can create their own shot. Kolek is probably the best so far, and that's telling. We're also missing guys that can consistently hit a lightly contested shot . And defensively, as you mention - our frontline is skinny, Oso has been holding his own, but Gold can't guard 5s, and who knows if Keeyan can get off the bench. I'm also not calling the end of the world, or season. They may put it together, I just haven't seen it yet.
As to my Shaka skepticism, I'm not convinced his defensive philosophy / style - that fans love - can win in a major conference for the whole season. It worked at VCU against mid-major teams, he went under .500 against the B12, we'll see if step down in competition in the BE can get him back to dominance. DePaul / Georgetown / Butler (and Nova so far) may help with that. As we saw last year - and in a microcosm last night - it's hard to keep that intensity up for a 20 game conference schedule against good foes. Last night, we didn't press for a while, and the game got closer than we would have liked. At VCU, his teams could take some defensive breaks in conference play - in the B12 and BE, that will be difficult. Not throwing in the towel, but he'll have to show me.
I also had a Marquette Triple Double for lunch. Delicious, but filling. No wonder Shaka raves about it.
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i realize there are some here that still think free throws no matta, but 18/30 will lose ya a lot of close games-gotta do betta
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i realize there are some here that still think free throws no matta, but 18/30 will lose ya a lot of close games-gotta do betta
Not how it works
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Rocky
College basketball has changed a great deal since Shaka was VCU. Shaka’s system can definitely work in a top conference, imo.
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Shaka’s system can definitely work in a top conference, imo.
Hopefully!
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I guess I don't see how poor roster construction is any different than recruiting/portal disappointment. Semantics perhaps.
Yes, Ross and S Jones look promising. But this year we're missing players that can create their own shot. Kolek is probably the best so far, and that's telling. We're also missing guys that can consistently hit a lightly contested shot . And defensively, as you mention - our frontline is skinny, Oso has been holding his own, but Gold can't guard 5s, and who knows if Keeyan can get off the bench. I'm also not calling the end of the world, or season. They may put it together, I just haven't seen it yet.
As to my Shaka skepticism, I'm not convinced his defensive philosophy / style - that fans love - can win in a major conference for the whole season. It worked at VCU against mid-major teams, he went under .500 against the B12, we'll see if step down in competition in the BE can get him back to dominance. DePaul / Georgetown / Butler (and Nova so far) may help with that. As we saw last year - and in a microcosm last night - it's hard to keep that intensity up for a 20 game conference schedule against good foes. Last night, we didn't press for a while, and the game got closer than we would have liked. At VCU, his teams could take some defensive breaks in conference play - in the B12 and BE, that will be difficult. Not throwing in the towel, but he'll have to show me.
I also had a Marquette Triple Double for lunch. Delicious, but filling. No wonder Shaka raves about it.
The full-court pressure approach now is not the same as it was during his time at VCU.
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The full-court pressure approach now is not the same as it was during his time at VCU.
For lack of a better response. Duh. But still requires a similar level of energy - and my point is that's hard to sustain against a conference full of good opponents.
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I'm hoping that Wrightsil gets healthy (assuming that injury is limiting him) so we can see if his skills translate to this level.
me too, but I’m feeling pessimistic on Wrightsil at this point. Even if healthy by Tuesday, Shaka probably isn’t throwing him into the deep end vs Baylor or RED. (btw, can’t believe Keeyan can’t give 10 min/per of defense and boards. What the heck?)
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For lack of a better response. Duh. But still requires a similar level of energy - and my point is that's hard to sustain against a conference full of good opponents.
Perhaps your point should be clearer next time.
Btw, your annoyance at the Shaka triple-double, for lack of a better term, is ludicrous.
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Perhaps your point should be clearer next time.
Btw, your annoyance at the Shaka triple-double, for lack of a better term, is ludicrous.
I was pretty clear that I was comparing the style effectiveness mid-major vs. high-major.
And I'll have to try to get my hands on a Shaka Triple Double - the Marquette Triple Double was tasty. I had no idea there were so many triple-double meal options!
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Quite honestly, I love all of the negative comments being thrown out about individual players, the team as a whole and Shaka, the coach. Most of these comments ae coming from guys that praised Theo John, Cain and Greg Elliot during their time at MU, yet find every fault in Omax, Kam or Oso. I'll take those three any day of the week over the previous trio. I am looking for those same posters to get down on Sean Jones and Ross after a poor play or game. This program is going the right direction and there are a lot of positives so far this season.
The game last night was a joke, a poor opponent, holiday weekend, nobody at the game and few days away from a big home game and big week. My gut tells me that many on here do not even believe MU will be competitive against Baylor and UW and some are basing their opinion about MU played last night. I will give some scoopers credit for having more enthusiasm for the game last night than the team did. You guys should be the STOG.
I believe that MU will be very competitive against Baylor, with a chance to win and will beat Bucky fairly handily. I said before GA Tech game that I did not have enough of a feel on the team to be confident going against Purdue or MS and I had no idea if they would keep it close or get blown out. This fan is looking forward to two exciting games this week and not concerned about Omax dribbling off his leg or Kam shooting from halfcourt.
The Hauser boys would’ve taken Jamal, Theo, and Greg over this year’s 3. Hell, they would’ve taken them over Markus Howard.
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I'd argue it is more difficult to achieve the "Marquette triple double" than a traditional triple double. Double digit points is definitely an easier milestone than 10 deflections in a game.
Double digit points was part of Oso’s “Marquette triple double…”
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Bias
What the hell are you talking about?
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me too, but I’m feeling pessimistic on Wrightsil at this point. Even if healthy by Tuesday, Shaka probably isn’t throwing him into the deep end vs Baylor or RED. (btw, can’t believe Keeyan can’t give 10 min/per of defense and boards. What the heck?)
It’s a shame Wrightsil hasn’t worked out as I think we really needed another forward on this team. No inside info, but I think at this point we’re trending towards a medical redshirt and I think that he’ll transfer and go play at a smaller D1 school next year. Would be surprised if he plays another minute for MU.
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This program's consistent inability to find a 250lb, 6'8- 6'10 beef boy is maddening. Not even an Edy or Bacot - but a Tolu Smith/Norchad Omier or even Dwight Wilson III type. Maybe that doesn't fit Shaka's style/plan but it certainly seems that consistent major-conference and NCAA success runs through having a presence in the front court.
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This program's consistent inability to find a 250lb, 6'8- 6'10 beef boy is maddening. Not even an Edy or Bacot - but a Tolu Smith/Norchad Omier or even Dwight Wilson III type. Maybe that doesn't fit Shaka's style/plan but it certainly seems that consistent major-conference and NCAA success runs through having a presence in the front court.
My guess is that Shaka will never recruit one of these.
This board has a weird obsession with heavy centers. You don't have to recruit aircraft carriers to win in today's NCAA.
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My guess is that Shaka will never recruit one of these.
This board has a weird obsession with heavy centers. You don't have to recruit aircraft carriers to win in today's NCAA.
Yep. We love to talk about how great a coach Jay Wright was (which he was) and about how he built a program that all Big East teams should strive for (which he did).
Well, the "bigs" on his 2018 title team were 6-9 Amare Spellman and 6-8 Eric Paschal. Neither came anywhere near averaging 10 rpg, and both would pull up from 3 at any time. They were forwards, not anything close to "classic bigs."
Wright had 6-11 Daniel Ochefu on his 2015-16 championship team, but he averaged only 23 mpg, and the 2nd tallest guy on the team was 6-8 Darryl Reynolds.
In 2020-21, Baylor played most of the time without anything resembling a "true 5." 6-11 Flo Thamba started every game but averaged only 15 mpg. Often, 6-9 Matthew Mayer, who liked to play on the outside, was their tallest guy on the floor.
What those teams had were lots and lots of talented, athletic switchables.
And that's just 3 recent examples.
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My guess is that Shaka will never recruit one of these.
This board has a weird obsession with heavy centers. You don't have to recruit aircraft carriers to win in today's NCAA.
Well, you did in 1956
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My guess is that Shaka will never recruit one of these.
This board has a weird obsession with heavy centers. You don't have to recruit aircraft carriers to win in today's NCAA.
And just watch like five minutes of Marquette basketball and tell me where an "aircraft carrier" is going to fit on the offensive end. And if anyone uses "wide post" in response, they are sentenced to spend the rest of this season hanging out with Murff on Dodds' Board where they can discuss such nonsense.
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they are sentenced to spend the rest of this season hanging out with Murff on Dodds' Board where they can discuss such nonsense.
I'll take waterboarding with a side of walling before that kind of punishment.
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And just watch like five minutes of Marquette basketball and tell me where an "aircraft carrier" is going to fit on the offensive end. And if anyone uses "wide post" in response, they are sentenced to spend the rest of this season hanging out with Murff on Dodds' Board where they can discuss such nonsense.
By aircraft carrier are we talking about a Davante body type? Or someone like Oso except stronger? As far as I can tell, if a big can move well he'll fit in the offense.
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Theo John with skills.
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My guess is that Shaka will never recruit one of these.
This board has a weird obsession with heavy centers. You don't have to recruit aircraft carriers to win in today's NCAA.
Shaka needs to recruit more rebounders. Not sure the style he used at VCU is as sustainable in the Big East without better rebounding. I mean, the boys couldn’t even out rebound Chicago State. It was a problem last year and has been a major problem against the better teams we’ve played this year. Our bigs are not good rebounders and that needs to change.
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Shaka needs to recruit more rebounders. Not sure the style he used at VCU is as sustainable in the Big East without better rebounding. I mean, the boys couldn’t even out rebound Chicago State. It was a problem last year and has been a major problem against the better teams we’ve played this year. Our bigs are not good rebounders and that needs to change.
Rebounding hasn't even been an issue with this team. They outrebounded Purdue 39 to 35 including 15 to 6 on the Offensive glass.
They have outrebounded their opponents 259 to 257 on the year. A lot of that has to do with the amount of shots we miss. Our tempo is fast and we take a lot of shots with a lot of misses so our opponents will always have a lot of rebounds. Just have to start making shots.
On the bright side we are 7th in the country in total assists and 41st in steals.
The biggest issue to me is the 3 point %. I love the idea of 3's and dunks/layups, but you have to knock down 3's to truly maximize that potential of that theory. Currently this team ranks 253rd in America with a 31% 3point.
Where we've hung around is holding our opponents to 30.1% 3point which is good for 102nd in the country.
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Shaka needs to recruit more rebounders. Not sure the style he used at VCU is as sustainable in the Big East without better rebounding. I mean, the boys couldn’t even out rebound Chicago State. It was a problem last year and has been a major problem against the better teams we’ve played this year. Our bigs are not good rebounders and that needs to change.
We outrebounded Chicago State. We've outrebounded every team we've played except Mississippi State and LIU (who we beat by 37 so fart noise). We don't get a lot of offensive rebounds but have been solid on the defensive glass.
Rebounding is the weakest part of our game which is fine as long as we are winning the eFG% and TO% battles. If you look at Shaka's history, rebounding is always the weak part of his teams, it's an intentional decision. Would like to see us get a few more offensive rebounds than we've been getting. I suspect that will come as players get older, wiser, and stronger. We've already seen a significant improvement from last season.
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Rebounding hasn't even been an issue with this team. They outrebounded Purdue 39 to 35 including 15 to 6 on the Offensive glass.
They have outrebounded their opponents 259 to 257 on the year. A lot of that has to do with the amount of shots we miss. Our tempo is fast and we take a lot of shots with a lot of misses so our opponents will always have a lot of rebounds. Just have to start making shots.
On the bright side we are 7th in the country in total assists and 41st in steals.
The biggest issue to me is the 3 point %. I love the idea of 3's and dunks/layups, but you have to knock down 3's to truly maximize that potential of that theory. Currently this team ranks 253rd in America with a 31% 3point.
Where we've hung around is holding our opponents to 30.1% 3point which is good for 102nd in the country.
I disagree on the rebounding. We got killed on the boards against Miss State and is a huge reason we lost. I am not too concerned about overall rebounding margin when 4/7 games are against awful teams, but its definitely concerning when Chicago State can out rebound a team like Marquette in a half. Neither Oso nor Omax are great rebounders for their size. Gold is more of perimeter player than a true big. When Oso is off the floor, there is really no one to grab boards. I think rebounding will be a big issue this year, and there aren't really reinforcements coming next year in that regard.
But yah, shooting is a huge issue too. I just brought up the rebounding due to the conversation about us needing a center. Marquette really could have used a transfer big like Javon Franklin on GT to back up Oso. Maybe Wrightsil was supposed to be that guy and still can be if he ever gets healthy enough to contribute.
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Rebounding hasn't even been an issue with this team. They outrebounded Purdue 39 to 35 including 15 to 6 on the Offensive glass.
They have outrebounded their opponents 259 to 257 on the year. A lot of that has to do with the amount of shots we miss. Our tempo is fast and we take a lot of shots with a lot of misses so our opponents will always have a lot of rebounds. Just have to start making shots.
On the bright side we are 7th in the country in total assists and 41st in steals.
The biggest issue to me is the 3 point %. I love the idea of 3's and dunks/layups, but you have to knock down 3's to truly maximize that potential of that theory. Currently this team ranks 253rd in America with a 31% 3point.
Where we've hung around is holding our opponents to 30.1% 3point which is good for 102nd in the country.
IMO- the takeaway should be "rebounding isn't an issue" because shaka's defense doesn't believe in rebounding, and it is predicated on TO's and defensive eFG%. More than anything else.
And overall, this is a good rebounding team for a shaka smart team.
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I disagree on the rebounding. We got killed on the boards against Miss State and is a huge reason we lost. I am not too concerned about overall rebounding margin when 4/7 games are against awful teams, but its definitely concerning when Chicago State can out rebound a team like Marquette in a half. Neither Oso nor Omax are great rebounders for their size. Gold is more of perimeter player than a true big. When Oso is off the floor, there is really no one to grab boards. I think rebounding will be a big issue this year, and there aren't really reinforcements coming next year in that regard.
But yah, shooting is a huge issue too. I just brought up the rebounding due to the conversation about us needing a center. Marquette really could have used a transfer big like Javon Franklin on GT to back up Oso. Maybe Wrightsil was supposed to be that guy and still can be if he ever gets healthy enough to contribute.
The rebounding is good/adequate for how shaka wants to play. But we arn't a good rebounding team.
Shaka didn't really believe in rebounding with multiple professional bigs at Texas. Including Jarrett Allen who is a top 10 NBA rebounding.
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Love all the people saying “Marquette needs this” or “we have to get XYZ” despite it being totally contrary to the very public, transparent philosophy our current coach has laid out time after time.
It seriously makes me wonder if half the posters here even pay attention to the team.
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My guess is that Shaka will never recruit one of these.
This board has a weird obsession with heavy centers. You don't have to recruit aircraft carriers to win in today's NCAA.
At the highest level? I'm not so sure.
2022 Kansas: 6'10" 250 lb David McCormack
2021 Baylor: 6'8" 245 lb Jonathan Tchamwa Tchatchoua
2019 Virginia: 6'9" 228 lb Mamadi Diakite
2018 Villanova: 6'9" 245 lb Omari Spellman
2017 North Carolina: 6'10" 260 Kennedy Meeks
2016 Villanova: 6'10" 245 lb Daniel Ochefu
2015 Duke: 6'11" 270 lb Jahlil Okafor
2014 UConn: 6'10" 210 lb Philip Nolan
2013 Louisville: 6'11" 245 lb Gorgui Dieng
2012 Kentucky: 6'9" 252 lb Terrence Jones
2011 UConn: 6'9" 240 lb Alex Oriakhi
2010 Duke: 6'10" 260 lb Brian Zoubek
Other than that fluke UConn team, all of these teams had someone that was somewhat in that aircraft carrier mode. 2019 Virginia also had 6'10" 250 lb Jack Salt. UConn with Nolan and 7'0" Amida Brimah were really the only team with primary bigs that were the lanky athletes that Shaka seems to be preferring here. For a guy that's sent Jarrett Allen, Mo Bamba, Jaxson Hayes, and Jericho Sims to the league and also had bigs like Dylan Osetkowski and Will Baker, I'll admit I'm surprised we haven't made getting bigger bigs a priority.
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Love all the people saying “Marquette needs this” or “we have to get XYZ” despite it being totally contrary to the very public, transparent philosophy our current coach has laid out time after time.
It seriously makes me wonder if half the posters here even pay attention to the team.
I know the answer to this question
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At the highest level? I'm not so sure.
2022 Kansas: 6'10" 250 lb David McCormack
2021 Baylor: 6'8" 245 lb Jonathan Tchamwa Tchatchoua
2019 Virginia: 6'9" 228 lb Mamadi Diakite
2018 Villanova: 6'9" 245 lb Omari Spellman
2017 North Carolina: 6'10" 260 Kennedy Meeks
2016 Villanova: 6'10" 245 lb Daniel Ochefu
2015 Duke: 6'11" 270 lb Jahlil Okafor
2014 UConn: 6'10" 210 lb Philip Nolan
2013 Louisville: 6'11" 245 lb Gorgui Dieng
2012 Kentucky: 6'9" 252 lb Terrence Jones
2011 UConn: 6'9" 240 lb Alex Oriakhi
2010 Duke: 6'10" 260 lb Brian Zoubek
Other than that fluke UConn team, all of these teams had someone that was somewhat in that aircraft carrier mode. 2019 Virginia also had 6'10" 250 lb Jack Salt. UConn with Nolan and 7'0" Amida Brimah were really the only team with primary bigs that were the lanky athletes that Shaka seems to be preferring here. For a guy that's sent Jarrett Allen, Mo Bamba, Jaxson Hayes, and Jericho Sims to the league and also had bigs like Dylan Osetkowski and Will Baker, I'll admit I'm surprised we haven't made getting bigger bigs a priority.
If Mamadi Diakite is an aircraft carrier then we have three on our team. I wouldn't put half the guys you mentioned in that category. A lot of these guys are athletic, mobile and can face the basket and Shaka would absolutely recruit those guys.
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At the highest level? I'm not so sure.
2022 Kansas: 6'10" 250 lb David McCormack
2021 Baylor: 6'8" 245 lb Jonathan Tchamwa Tchatchoua
2019 Virginia: 6'9" 228 lb Mamadi Diakite
2018 Villanova: 6'9" 245 lb Omari Spellman
2017 North Carolina: 6'10" 260 Kennedy Meeks
2016 Villanova: 6'10" 245 lb Daniel Ochefu
2015 Duke: 6'11" 270 lb Jahlil Okafor
2014 UConn: 6'10" 210 lb Philip Nolan
2013 Louisville: 6'11" 245 lb Gorgui Dieng
2012 Kentucky: 6'9" 252 lb Terrence Jones
2011 UConn: 6'9" 240 lb Alex Oriakhi
2010 Duke: 6'10" 260 lb Brian Zoubek
Other than that fluke UConn team, all of these teams had someone that was somewhat in that aircraft carrier mode. 2019 Virginia also had 6'10" 250 lb Jack Salt. UConn with Nolan and 7'0" Amida Brimah were really the only team with primary bigs that were the lanky athletes that Shaka seems to be preferring here. For a guy that's sent Jarrett Allen, Mo Bamba, Jaxson Hayes, and Jericho Sims to the league and also had bigs like Dylan Osetkowski and Will Baker, I'll admit I'm surprised we haven't made getting bigger bigs a priority.
As already stated, Spellman was a forward who liked to shoot 3s and Ochefu barely played half of most games -- if Ochefu was an "aircraft carrier," so was Otule.
When I think of "aircraft carrier," I think of Shaq or Sampson or at least Mo Lucas. That list includes few anywhere within light years of those.
But sure, we definitely could use another big body, and I'm both surprised and disappointed that Shaka didn't bring in a transfer to help Oso -- even a Jayce Johnson type would have been nice.
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Brew's list is way better than the examples I gave - or as Tower put it- Theo with skills.
A physical presence can still face the basket and shoot threes - its just having someone that, when we come up against a similar size body wont get abused.
I love Oso and omax as players - but I'm afraid when we run up against these types (like Miss St) we dont have a body to match. Shaka got away with beanpole 4s and 5s at VCU because very few of the mid.major opponents had that type of player. Of course on any given night that can be overcome with great shooting or pressure D, but it's tough to win consistently against teams w those guys if you can't match their tactics.
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If Mamadi Diakite is an aircraft carrier then we have three on our team. I wouldn't put half the guys you mentioned in that category. A lot of these guys are athletic, mobile and can face the basket and Shaka would absolutely recruit those guys.
And I noted that Virginia team also had Jack Salt. I don't think posters on this site are looking for one-dimensional, back to the basket Shaq types, or old fashioned aircraft carrier players. It's having bodies big enough to handle the low post banging and I think that is even more pronounced in conference play. If they are athletic or have face-up skills, all the better, but in general teams have to have a few physical frames that carry 235-250 when it comes to winning six games in March.
As already stated, Spellman was a forward who liked to shoot 3s and Ochefu barely played half of most games -- if Ochefu was an "aircraft carrier," so was Otule.
But Spellman had the frame to bang down low and Ochefu played 26+ in every NCAA Tournament game, 28+ after the first round. And I'd love an Otule or even Dwight Burke on this roster to deal with Sanogo and Kalkbrenner down low.
When I think of "aircraft carrier," I think of Shaq or Sampson or at least Mo Lucas. That list includes few anywhere within light years of those.
I was mainly addressing TAMU's "obsession with heavy centers" comment but 10 of the last 12 title winners prominently featured a 240+ pound center, and as mentioned UVA had Salt on the roster playing rotation minutes, even if it was only to combat Matt Haarms once NCAA time rolled around.
But sure, we definitely could use another big body, and I'm both surprised and disappointed that Shaka didn't bring in a transfer to help Oso -- even a Jayce Johnson type would have been nice.
This is more where I'm at. I get that 6'11", 245-pound players that run like gazelles, can shoot the three, and be a defensive stopper in the low post are hard to come by because those are NBA lottery picks. But when you have Shaka's track record of NBA bigs (Allen, Bamba, Hayes, Sims) it seems surprising you would have zero big (240+ pound) players on the roster not just for this year, but for potentially the next two years based on scholarships offered, unless Ben Gold adds 30 pounds.
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All that is fair, brew. Even another Kuath type would have helped.
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For this season, id assume that it’s pretty likely Shaka viewed Zach Wrightsil as a poor mans Justin Lewis with some veteran presence on a team that needed another guy to help replace Justins front court production.
That’s not to say that Shaka thought Zach would be anywhere near as good as Justin, but more so that he would be very serviceable and produce in the front court in both the scoring and rebounding departments, as well as a plus defender. Something like 10-12ppg and 6-8rpg.
Shaka saw Zach’s production at a lower level, where he was the best in the country, and assumed that it would probably translate to decent and productive play at Marquette.
He then likely valued a player like this more so than a project big that would sit behind Oso and play much less, battling for minutes with Keeyan and Ben.
I understand what he was thinking, and yes there is a possibility that he was wrong, everyone makes mistakes.
However, we aren’t there yet. Wrightsil may become a productive rotation guy as the season goes on, hopefully that injury doesn’t continue to linger.
I can’t fault the thought process though, as I tend to agree that a productive Wrightsil type player is more important to this years team than a backup 5.
That said, if Keeyan isn’t playing 10-15 productive minutes by February/March then Shaka really needs to turn on the burners for either another Kur type transfer- or hopefully even better than Kur- or another extremely productive 6’8-6’9 big man transfer who would back up Oso and take some of OMax minutes at the 4 if he doesn’t continue to progress and produce.
The alternative would be a highly ranked 5 in the mold of Oso that would play behind him and have to learn extremely quickly on the fly.
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There was some connection between the coaching staff at Loyola New Orleans and Shaka too - something like a former VCU player who is now on their staff if memory recalls? So he likely heard a lot of good things about fit.
I actually don't think he was looking for much scoring. Rebounding and defense, and IMO, a better back up post than anything you would see out of Keeyan or Gold. Plus as you said, a veteran presence who knows how to win games, albiet at a lower level.
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And I noted that Virginia team also had Jack Salt. I don't think posters on this site are looking for one-dimensional, back to the basket Shaq types, or old fashioned aircraft carrier players.
I think that's exactly what a not insignificant portion of posters are looking for.
My point is that I think many posters think Shaka should grab an aircraft carrier who isn't mobile, who can't put the ball on the floor, who can't face the basket, who can't shoot beyond 5 feet just for the sake of having a big body on the roster. Of course they would prefer one who can do all those things but since they are mostly top 50 recruits coveted by all programs, Shaka should just take what he can get, even if the big body doesn't fit the system.
I think as Shaka builds his credibility at Marquette, he will be able to land more of those top 50 type forwards. I think until then, we are going to be recruiting skinny kids and trying to bulk them up. We've hard Shaka say that the goal is to get Itejere to 250lbs (or 240 I can't remember). My guess is that they have a similar idea for Gold.
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I think that's exactly what a not insignificant portion of posters are looking for.
My point is that I think many posters think Shaka should grab an aircraft carrier who isn't mobile, who can't put the ball on the floor, who can't face the basket, who can't shoot beyond 5 feet just for the sake of having a big body on the roster. Of course they would prefer one who can do all those things but since they are mostly top 50 recruits coveted by all programs, Shaka should just take what he can get, even if the big body doesn't fit the system.
I think as Shaka builds his credibility at Marquette, he will be able to land more of those top 50 type forwards. I think until then, we are going to be recruiting skinny kids and trying to bulk them up. We've hard Shaka say that the goal is to get Itejere to 250lbs (or 240 I can't remember). My guess is that they have a similar idea for Gold.
Yeah I think a lot of people want Davante Gardner, Part II even though he would be an awful fit for what Shaka wants to do.
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MU is oversigned by 1 already. Given that plus that we've heard MU will pony up to keep their own but won't pony up to land the stud transfer or recruit, I don't see any way we're landing an impact big in the transfer portal. If we aren't going to pony up to land high level transfers, the only transfers we'll be landing are the Wrightsil kind. Which is fine if our roster continuity continues and those players develop.
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MU is oversigned by 1 already. Given that plus that we've heard MU will pony up to keep their own but won't pony up to land the stud transfer or recruit, I don't see any way we're landing an impact big in the transfer portal. If we aren't going to pony up to land high level transfers, the only transfers we'll be landing are the Wrightsil kind. Which is fine if our roster continuity continues and those players develop.
The only way MU.. spends major NIL money on someone outside the program is if Oso leaves early IMO. Otherwise they'll just spend some money to retain guys like him.
Also its not like the "expensive" transfers are overwhelming working, they are hit or miss too. Fardaws Aimaq and Jaylan Gainey are injured. Kendal Coleman play 10mpg for a soso LSU team. Noah Carter (the most likely alternative to Wrightsil) actually looks decent, but MU beat Mizzou well in a scrimmage. Warren Washington and Manny Bates seem like they will work out for ASU and Butler, but those two were give a starting role right away because they were walking into sitiuations where everyone else is in transition too. That's why our own transfers did well last year.
Transfers are useful when you are making wholesale changes.
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MU is oversigned by 1 already. Given that plus that we've heard MU will pony up to keep their own but won't pony up to land the stud transfer or recruit, I don't see any way we're landing an impact big in the transfer portal. If we aren't going to pony up to land high level transfers, the only transfers we'll be landing are the Wrightsil kind. Which is fine if our roster continuity continues and those players develop.
Wouldn't be surprised with an EE transfer, also there's been some whispers online and in other various podcasts about Oso possibly going pro after the season.
The roster will sort itself out.
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Wouldn't be surprised with an EE transfer, also there's been some whispers online and in other various podcasts about Oso possibly going pro after the season.
The roster will sort itself out.
Oso is starting to show up on scouting radars, but I'd be very surprised if it's this year.
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Oso is starting to show up on scouting radars, but I'd be very surprised if it's this year.
The whispers have been along the lines of "he came into school as a Sophomore because of College credits he earned in High School, so it makes sense that he'd leave after this season."
Now the talent on the court is there as well, so it wouldn't be all that surprising honestly. It would suck for all of us fans, but we don't matter!
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The whispers have been along the lines of "he came into school as a Sophomore because of College credits he earned in High School, so it makes sense that he'd leave after this season."
Now the talent on the court is there as well, so it wouldn't be all that surprising honestly. It would suck for all of us fans, but we don't matter!
What pro radars is Oso on? I'm not sure many NBA teams, or even G League teams, are salivating at the idea of a 6'9" skinny guy who can't score from more than 5 feet out and shoots 41% from the free throw line.
Could he graduate and transfer? Sure. But I, for one, would find it insanely surprising if Oso went pro. Unless his degree is in Spanish or something. Then it'd make more sense.
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Yeah I think a lot of people want Davante Gardner, Part II even though he would be an awful fit for what Shaka wants to do.
I don't think anyone wants that. I think they want a Theo with skills.
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I don't think anyone wants that. I think they want a Theo with skills.
I want an Olajuwon
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What pro radars is Oso on? I'm not sure many NBA teams, or even G League teams, are salivating at the idea of a 6'9" skinny guy who can't score from more than 5 feet out and shoots 41% from the free throw line.
Could he graduate and transfer? Sure. But I, for one, would find it insanely surprising if Oso went pro. Unless his degree is in Spanish or something.Then it'd make more sense.
Seems very racist
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What pro radars is Oso on? I'm not sure many NBA teams, or even G League teams, are salivating at the idea of a 6'9" skinny guy who can't score from more than 5 feet out and shoots 41% from the free throw line.
Could he graduate and transfer? Sure. But I, for one, would find it insanely surprising if Oso went pro. Unless his degree is in Spanish or something. Then it'd make more sense.
Skinny? As opposed to like being fat or something? I don't think of Oso as a skinny kid anymore. He's bulked up a considerable amount. Strong athletic build.
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So here we go again.
There are many reasons a basketball player leaves college to go pro -- he believes in himself to the utmost degree, regardless of what "experts" think; he doesn't like school or thinks he has as much schooling as he needs at that time; his family needs money; he is getting bad advice; he actually relishes the opportunity to play internationally if the NBA doesn't work out; he simply feels he's ready for the next step; etc.
As we see over and over and over again, a guy not being "ready" or the NBA not "salivating" over him doesn't dissuade lots of players from saying buh-bye to college sports.
We've seen it right here with Lewis, Carton, Bailey and Blue, and it happens within just about every major-college program in the country. Heck, even though he knew he'd be a first-round draft pick, Ellenson wasn't "ready" for the NBA.
Obviously, Oso isn't ready for the NBA, and he won't be after this season. And selfishly, I sure hope he and all of our other good players stick around for what we all hope will be a great 2023-24 season. But his readiness quite possibly won't factor into his decision, and our selfishness definitely won't.
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So here we go again.
There are many reasons a basketball player leaves college to go pro -- he believes in himself to the utmost degree, regardless of what "experts" think; he doesn't like school or thinks he has as much schooling as he needs at that time; his family needs money; he is getting bad advice; he actually relishes the opportunity to play internationally if the NBA doesn't work out; he simply feels he's ready for the next step; etc.
As we see over and over and over again, a guy not being "ready" or the NBA not "salivating" over him doesn't dissuade lots of players from saying buh-bye to college sports.
We've seen it right here with Lewis, Carton, Bailey and Blue, and it happens within just about every major-college program in the country. Heck, even though he knew he'd be a first-round draft pick, Ellenson wasn't "ready" for the NBA.
Obviously, Oso isn't ready for the NBA, and he won't be after this season. And selfishly, I sure hope he and all of our other good players stick around for what we all hope will be a great 2023-24 season. But his readiness quite possibly won't factor into his decision, and our selfishness definitely won't.
All of which is a totally different discussion than what "scouting radars" Osos is showing up on.
But thanks!
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Skinny? As opposed to like being fat or something? I don't think of Oso as a skinny kid anymore. He's bulked up a considerable amount. Strong athletic build.
In context, I think skinny is a proxy for a height/weight disadvantage relative to other Big East teams
Oso is listed on MU's site as 6'9 215.
Now compared to the rest of the league:
Donavan Clingan: 7'2 265
Joel Soriano: 6'11 260
Jack Nunge: 7'0 245
Ryan Kalkbrenner: 7'1 260
Tyrese Samuels: 6'10 235
Ed Croswell: 6'8 240
Manny Bates: 6'11 240
Nick Ogenda 6'11 230
Qudus Wahab 6'11 245
Eric Dixon 6'8 255
I'm not dissing Oso--but I think he would be better playing alongside someone like Kuath as opposed to replacing him in the lineup.
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I'm not dissing Oso--but I think he would be better playing alongside someone like Kuath as opposed to replacing him in the lineup.
So you can have two guys that can't shoot on the floor at the same time? Oso did his job last year - his redshirt freshman season. He did it fine, but has made nice strides this year, doing exactly what Shaka wants from him.
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In context, I think skinny is a proxy for a height/weight disadvantage relative to other Big East teams
Oso is listed on MU's site as 6'9 215.
Now compared to the rest of the league:
Donavan Clingan: 7'2 265
Joel Soriano: 6'11 260
Jack Nunge: 7'0 245
Ryan Kalkbrenner: 7'1 260
Tyrese Samuels: 6'10 235
Ed Croswell: 6'8 240
Manny Bates: 6'11 240
Nick Ogenda 6'11 230
Qudus Wahab 6'11 245
Eric Dixon 6'8 255
I'm not dissing Oso--but I think he would be better playing alongside someone like Kuath as opposed to replacing him in the lineup.
Correct. What was implied was "relative to professional basketball players." I thought that would've been understood when discussing whether Oso was on "scouts' radars." Kevin Durant looks like a twig and he's got 25 lbs. on Oso.
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All of which is a totally different discussion than what "scouting radars" Osos is showing up on.
But thanks!
Oso doesn't have to be on anybody's "scouting radar" or the subject of "whispers" to leave college for pro basketball.
But you're welcome!
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Looking forward to Omax leaving early to get drafted by an NBA team and now Oso going to play somewhere on this planet. But most of all looking forward to Hermie providing us with hundreds of posts on what they are doing, how many points/minutes per game, solid playing time, etc.
Come on Oso, no early fouls tonight and kick some Baylor butt.
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This thread was referenced earlier today and is absolute gold to look back on. Great time capsule that ends just before we tipped off against Baylor last year, which in hindsight might have been the game that launched the rocket ship we are still riding. It's interesting to look back at the takes on current players and the hesitancy to buy in to Shaka's culture early in his tenure. What a long, strange, awesome trip it's been since.
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It is an interesting trip down memory lane.