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* Seton Hall SOTG

Oso Ighodaro

18 points, 6 rebounds,
2 assists, 3 steals,
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2022-23 Season SoG Tally
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Date/Time: Jan 28, 2023, 1:00 pm
TV: FS1
Schedule for 2022-23
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Author Topic: MU and the jumper/trifecta  (Read 3257 times)

Tha Hound

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Re: MU and the jumper/trifecta
« Reply #75 on: November 16, 2022, 12:42:21 PM »
There's a lot of rabble in this thread about where we shoot from, despite the fact thats not even close to our problem. We've gotten a ton of open looks from all the floor, especially 3. We just haven't hit them yet.

Shooter McGavin

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Re: MU and the jumper/trifecta
« Reply #76 on: November 16, 2022, 01:39:27 PM »
There's a lot of rabble in this thread about where we shoot from, despite the fact thats not even close to our problem. We've gotten a ton of open looks from all the floor, especially 3. We just haven't hit them yet.

Agreed, we got all the wide open looks on offense we needed to win that game in a tough environment.  Hopefully the team develops, their confidence grows and a few more go in as the season goes on.   I’m very encouraged by last night’s performance. 

rocky_warrior

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Re: MU and the jumper/trifecta
« Reply #77 on: November 16, 2022, 08:47:46 PM »


10' radius around the basket.

I would prefer more makes from the commercial advertising area.
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1318WWells

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Re: MU and the jumper/trifecta
« Reply #78 on: November 17, 2022, 08:03:36 AM »
I would prefer more makes from the commercial advertising area.

Kam seems to like shooting em from that area

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Re: MU and the jumper/trifecta
« Reply #79 on: November 18, 2022, 11:08:37 AM »
I would prefer more makes from the commercial advertising area.

More makes or more takes?


TSmith34, No'er of Bawl

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Re: MU and the jumper/trifecta
« Reply #80 on: November 18, 2022, 12:16:53 PM »
I would prefer more makes from the commercial advertising area.
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rocky_warrior

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Re: MU and the jumper/trifecta
« Reply #81 on: November 18, 2022, 12:40:30 PM »
More makes or more takes?



More makes - it's always an open 3!   And, appreciate the Arby's
“Normal is an illusion. What's normal for the spider is chaos for the fly.”  -Morticia Addams

MuggsyB

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Re: MU and the jumper/trifecta
« Reply #82 on: November 18, 2022, 02:01:38 PM »
I think  executing in our half-court offense is where we need to improve the most.  As Shaka said last night we are not at our best when we try to score one on one.  Jop and Kam have their moments as shot-makers but it's a challenge for them to score off the dribble consistently.

From my vantage point, in order to reach our ceiling, we must get multiple perimeter players scoring  near double digits with solid efficiency.  Kolek is our conductor, not really a scorer.  Oso is playing at a tremendous level early in the season.  Between Kam, Jop, Stevie, O-Max, and Ross can we get the points necessary against the tier one ball-clubs?  Either Kam or Jop have to usurp the #1 scoring role or we we have to get it done by committee.  All this said I would be imploring OMax and Stevie to be far more aggressive in our offense and get more shots from high percentage spots.  Both are quite capable if they are under control and square up with no hesitation. 
« Last Edit: November 18, 2022, 02:03:10 PM by MuggsyB »

TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: MU and the jumper/trifecta
« Reply #83 on: November 18, 2022, 02:20:54 PM »
Muggsy, you might want to shield your eyes from this tweet.

https://twitter.com/PaintTouches/status/1593671303260770310

This is the plan. Everything in the paint or beyond the three point line.

Last season at the same point in the season we were shooting 32/102 (~31.4%). That was three sub-30% performances and a scorching 13/32 performance against Ole Miss. We finished the season shooting 243/698 (~34.8%).

This season we're shooting ~31.5% through 4 games with three 31% or better performances and an ice cold 5/19 performance against Radford. I expect a similar pattern to last season.
TAMU

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tower912

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Re: MU and the jumper/trifecta
« Reply #84 on: November 18, 2022, 02:29:19 PM »
I think the increased shots at the rim shown in this small sample size is probably due to Oso's passing to cutters.   
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

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wadesworld

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Re: MU and the jumper/trifecta
« Reply #85 on: November 18, 2022, 02:47:30 PM »
Muggsy, you might want to shield your eyes from this tweet.

https://twitter.com/PaintTouches/status/1593671303260770310

This is the plan. Everything in the paint or beyond the three point line.

Last season at the same point in the season we were shooting 32/102 (~31.4%). That was three sub-30% performances and a scorching 13/32 performance against Ole Miss. We finished the season shooting 243/698 (~34.8%).

This season we're shooting ~31.5% through 4 games with three 31% or better performances and an ice cold 5/19 performance against Radford. I expect a similar pattern to last season.

We return two players who shot better than 31.5% from three last season.  One was Stevie on 0.6 attempts per game.  Joplin is obviously a better shooter than the 29% he shot last year.  But given the quality of the shots Kam is taking, I don't see him getting to just shy of 40% from 3 this season, so those things somewhat cancel each other out.

Beyond that, I don't see anybody who's going to really help our three point shooting percentage.  Hopefully someday Ben Gold and Sean Jones get there, but I don't think they're going to be making a lot of three pointers this year.  And I just don't see Stevie, OMax, Chase, Kolek, Wrightsil, Oso, or Keeyan as good shooters, at all.  I'd be thrilled if any of them finish about 33% on more than 1.5 attempts per game this year.  We simply have a bad shooting roster.
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tower912

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Re: MU and the jumper/trifecta
« Reply #86 on: November 18, 2022, 03:07:08 PM »
Well, the cool part is that they will all get plenty of opportunities.   And nobody gets better without reps.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

MuggsyB

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Re: MU and the jumper/trifecta
« Reply #87 on: November 18, 2022, 03:08:34 PM »
Muggsy, you might want to shield your eyes from this tweet.

https://twitter.com/PaintTouches/status/1593671303260770310

This is the plan. Everything in the paint or beyond the three point line.

Last season at the same point in the season we were shooting 32/102 (~31.4%). That was three sub-30% performances and a scorching 13/32 performance against Ole Miss. We finished the season shooting 243/698 (~34.8%).

This season we're shooting ~31.5% through 4 games with three 31% or better performances and an ice cold 5/19 performance against Radford. I expect a similar pattern to last season.

I stated higher percentage shots,.  We can get higher percentage 3's and 2's without shooting 10-15 footers or whatever you call mid-range.  Kam Jones shooting from 30 feet after bringing the ball up the floor is a poor percentage shot.  Wild shots in the paint where guys are off balanced and not using great footwork or a shot fake vs the teeth of a defense are poor percentage shots.   Guys launching 5 secs after they come off the bench like they're Steph Curry or Ray Allen are poor percentage shots.  Our shooting percentage off the dribble has to be inordinately low minus the gimme transition hoops.  My feeling is we need to diversify our offense, with more touches for Oso in the mid-post and better screening off the ball.  I believe strongly that all 5 of our starters can score and must be a threat to score in order to be contenders.  That's all I'm saying. 

tower912

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Re: MU and the jumper/trifecta
« Reply #88 on: November 18, 2022, 03:17:49 PM »
Send your resume to Shaka.  When Coach Smith gets a HC gig, you can take over the offense.


Particularly with the top 6, there is near constant movement off the ball.  When Oso has it in the mid and high post, he is always looking for cutters.  When that doesn't happen, they have a plan and pattern for the hand off, immediately then looking for a cut and/or a pick and roll.   

It was less successful against a good team on the road with a 7'4 roadblock in the lane.    Oops.    All we can do is watch and hope they get one day, one rep, better.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2022, 03:27:57 PM by tower912 »
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: MU and the jumper/trifecta
« Reply #89 on: November 18, 2022, 03:30:20 PM »
We return two players who shot better than 31.5% from three last season.  One was Stevie on 0.6 attempts per game.  Joplin is obviously a better shooter than the 29% he shot last year.  But given the quality of the shots Kam is taking, I don't see him getting to just shy of 40% from 3 this season, so those things somewhat cancel each other out.

Beyond that, I don't see anybody who's going to really help our three point shooting percentage.  Hopefully someday Ben Gold and Sean Jones get there, but I don't think they're going to be making a lot of three pointers this year.  And I just don't see Stevie, OMax, Chase, Kolek, Wrightsil, Oso, or Keeyan as good shooters, at all.  I'd be thrilled if any of them finish about 33% on more than 1.5 attempts per game this year.  We simply have a bad shooting roster.

His freshman year Justin Lewis was a 21.9% 3pt shooter at 1.5 attempts per game. He shot 34.9% on 5.2 attempts per game his sophomore year.

The year before coming to Marquette Darryl Moresell was a 25.5% shooter at 1.8 attempts per game. He was a career 26.7% 3P shooter through 4 seasons. He shot 34.7% on 4 attempts per game his grad year.

His freshman year O-Max Prosper was a 16.7% shooter on 0.8 attempts per game. He shot 31.7% on 1.9 attempts per game his sophomore year.

So why can members of last year's team improve their shooting but members of this year's team can't?

TAMU

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TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: MU and the jumper/trifecta
« Reply #90 on: November 18, 2022, 03:33:41 PM »
I stated higher percentage shots,.  We can get higher percentage 3's and 2's without shooting 10-15 footers or whatever you call mid-range.  Kam Jones shooting from 30 feet after bringing the ball up the floor is a poor percentage shot.  Wild shots in the paint where guys are off balanced and not using great footwork or a shot fake vs the teeth of a defense are poor percentage shots.   Guys launching 5 secs after they come off the bench like they're Steph Curry or Ray Allen are poor percentage shots.  Our shooting percentage off the dribble has to be inordinately low minus the gimme transition hoops.  My feeling is we need to diversify our offense, with more touches for Oso in the mid-post and better screening off the ball.  I believe strongly that all 5 of our starters can score and must be a threat to score in order to be contenders.  That's all I'm saying.

Well you've stated a lot of things actually, not just higher percentage shots. You won't get any argument from me or others that we can work on our shot selection, particularly Kam. I just challenge the idea that mid-range shots are going to be how we improve. You'd be surprised, those "wild shots in the paint where guys are off balanced and not using great footwork or a shot fake vs the teeth of a defense" are often more efficient shots than open long 2s because they have a higher change of drawing fouls.
TAMU

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wadesworld

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Re: MU and the jumper/trifecta
« Reply #91 on: November 18, 2022, 03:36:23 PM »
His freshman year Justin Lewis was a 21.9% 3pt shooter at 1.5 attempts per game. He shot 34.9% on 5.2 attempts per game his sophomore year.

The year before coming to Marquette Darryl Moresell was a 25.5% shooter at 1.8 attempts per game. He was a career 26.7% 3P shooter through 4 seasons. He shot 34.7% on 4 attempts per game his grad year.

His freshman year O-Max Prosper was a 16.7% shooter on 0.8 attempts per game. He shot 31.7% on 1.9 attempts per game his sophomore year.

So why can members of last year's team improve their shooting but members of this year's team can't?

They can.  I don't expect it.
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TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: MU and the jumper/trifecta
« Reply #92 on: November 18, 2022, 04:34:12 PM »
They can.  I don't expect it.

Well that's silly. Most players improve from year to year. Most don't improve dramatically but most at least get a little better.
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wadesworld

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Re: MU and the jumper/trifecta
« Reply #93 on: November 18, 2022, 04:44:44 PM »
Well that's silly. Most players improve from year to year. Most don't improve dramatically but most at least get a little better.

Being under 33% on 1.5 attempts per game would still be an improvement for just about everyone on this roster.  Unfortunately.  So I guess I do think they can improve.  Just only to the point where they're still bad shooters.
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MuggsyB

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Re: MU and the jumper/trifecta
« Reply #94 on: November 18, 2022, 04:55:37 PM »
Well you've stated a lot of things actually, not just higher percentage shots. You won't get any argument from me or others that we can work on our shot selection, particularly Kam. I just challenge the idea that mid-range shots are going to be how we improve. You'd be surprised, those "wild shots in the paint where guys are off balanced and not using great footwork or a shot fake vs the teeth of a defense" are often more efficient shots than open long 2s because they have a higher change of drawing fouls.

Well, we have to get more guys scoring the ball on a consistent basis.  Perhaps more productive rim runs will get us more free throws.  Anyway, I think because we don't really have a guy who can iso ball at a super high level we have to be more disciplined and share the ball.  Maybe the sample size isn't large enough but our threes off of atch and shoots vs those off the dribble seem to be night and day.  We have four huge n-c games coming up.  Hopefully we are 3-1 at worst.  Baylor is tough. 

DoctorV

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Re: MU and the jumper/trifecta
« Reply #95 on: November 19, 2022, 12:26:11 PM »
If Kolek improves, and then starts upping the volume from beyond the arc, then everyone else will too.

Teams won’t sag, they will step out, and Tyler will get the others more open spot up looks on drive by’s.

I suspect Shaka already knows this and continues to try to encourage him the best he can by talking up his shooting ability in the media and encouraging him to take open shots rather than pass them up.

I also suspect that this is the wrong approach. I think TyKo is more wired as a competitor and would like to see Shaka call him out on his shooting to lite a fire in his arse. When one method doesn’t work, head on to the next.
Just kidding, kind of.

Maybe someone can get him to read scoop and I’ll make myself available to fire him up.