MU and the jumper/trifecta

[Elonsmusk]

We should really go back to taking those inefficient shots morsell would take last year. Especially because morsell was good at them and the rest of this team isn't good at them.


You take an open midrange shot only when a contested three or contested layup arnt available.

I can see Joplin having the greenlight to shoot some mid-range.  But clearly the strategy is 3's or at the basket shots as an offensively philosophy, which is a good one.

[THRILLHO]

No it really isn't semantics. Embiid scoring a bunch of baskets in the key does not mean that the mid-range jumper is back or anything because those aren't mid-range jumpers.

Well it is, but semantics are important.

[Spotcheck Billy]

Please record it and post it on YouTube.

Obviously no.

[brewcity77]

Please record it and post it on YouTube.

Billy's right. No one wants that.

[Newsdreams]

Billy's right. No one wants that.

I'll watch

[lawdog77]

We're top-5 in the country in Shot Quality points per possession. That means we're creating and taking good shots, they just aren't falling. There were at least 14 points off wide open shots that Kolek created and were missed against Radford.

The system is doing what it's supposed to do, we just need the players to convert.

Question about the Shot Quality points per possession. Who sends them this data to input. One of the data points is defender closeout.
https://shotquality.com/stats-explained
Curious on how that is measured and if teams do send it, how reliable is it (kind of like home teams tracking assists)

[Dr. Blackheart]

I'll watch

Scoop Idol awaits

[nycwarrior]

It's fair to ask the question of how we can score beyond catch-and-shoot 3s and layups/dunks.

We'll play a lot of well coached teams with good athletes who will take away first and second options with hedging out high or really good rotation that keeps some sort of resistance at the rim.

So, what's the counter for Shaka?

Longer term, more skilled offensive players and more player development to help our guys get quality shots off at more angles/with less space. Marcus was a master. Not everyone needs to be him but there's an ocean of a gap.

For now the old buzz-ism of paint touches (to force rotation) and continual spacing and movement seem to be the key to finding more shots 10 feet and in or back at the arc.

It'll be interesting to see how strategies like playing Stevie, Cam and TK together can lead to more of that.

Also, how point-forward Oso can mix up the rotations teams expect to make.

Or how raw, blazing speed or a stretch 5 can shift things up off the bench.

Should be fun to watch.

[MuggsyB]

I think over the past year we have seen a number of games where we go into brick city mode/offensive lulls.  Now obviously college hoops is a game of runs, and we're not alone in stretches of offensive ineptitude, but I think we need to do a better job of consistent shot selection in our h-c offense.

Furthermore, most guys are more comfortable in catch and shoots versus rising and firing a J off the bounce.  Kolek in particular is way, way, more comfortable spot shooting.  I think Kam and DJop have a bit of a step-back but In general we struggle shooting off the dribble from my observations. 

We need more control on the floater or stop and pop from mid-range.  When we are in the half-court, and need a bucket or a three, what exactly would you be drawing up in these scenarios other than Kolek zipping a dime against unprepared opponents?  My concern are these offense droughts, which more often than not have been a result of early launches from deep, or acting like Bison in Yellowstone with downhill attacks.  Passing off the dribble should be far more fluid imo.

I stand by my comments and think we saw exactly why I have drought concerns.  An open 10 footer is a better shot than a contested three or deep three. 

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I stand by my comments and think we saw exactly why I have drought concerns.  An open 10 footer is a better shot than a contested three or deep three.

You didn't say open 10 footer yesterday. You said "stop and pop from mid-range". A 10 footer is not mid-range, it's well in the paint or just outside it from the sides. We shot a lot of 10 footers today that were open or appeared open. Edey erased or altered a lot of them.

[MuggsyB]

You didn't say open 10 footer yesterday. You said "stop and pop from mid-range". A 10 footer is not mid-range, it's well in the paint or just outside it from the sides. We shot a lot of 10 footers today that were open or appeared open. Edey erased or altered a lot of them.

Okay.  I think of shots between lay-uos abd triples as mid-range. 

[5DollarPitcher]

This team desperately misses Justin Lewis and his ability to create offense off the dribble. Just one player like that can create so much space for the rest of the team. Kolek, Kam, Joplin, and (theoretically) Ben Gold would feel like plenty under Lewis's gravitational pull.

[MuggsyB]

This team desperately misses Justin Lewis and his ability to create offense off the dribble. Just one player like that can create so much space for the rest of the team. Kolek, Kam, Joplin, and (theoretically) Ben Gold would feel like plenty under Lewis's gravitational pull.

Huge loss for sure.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Okay.  I think of shots between lay-uos abd triples as mid-range.

Well that explains a lot. That is not what mid-range means. Mid-range are jumpshots taken outside the key but inside the three point line. Typically they are 15-23 foot shots

[MuggsyB]

Well that explains a lot. That is not what mid-range means. Mid-range are jumpshots taken outside the key but inside the three point line. Typically they are 15-23 foot shots

Fair enough.  We shot terribly tonight from both inside and outside the arc. 

[withoutbias]

Mugs is correct. A 10 footer is absolutely a mid range shot.

[The Sultan]

Mugs is correct. A 10 footer is absolutely a mid range shot.

Well, no. TAMU has the definition that most coaches use.

https://www.nba.com/news/derozan-durant-lead-top-10-mid-range-scorers

"That theory has left the mid-range – the area inside the 3-point line but outside the key – as the dead zone on the floor, the least efficient shot in the game, the lava in the basketball version of Floor is Lava."

https://flowingdata.com/2019/01/15/goodbye-mid-range-shot/

"There's a space on the basketball court called "mid-range." It's in between the three-point line and the key (the rectangular area around the basket). You never see players shoot from this "mid-range" area, but it's actually not off-limits. In fact, people used to shoot these "mid-range" shots."

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Mugs is correct. A 10 footer is absolutely a mid range shot.

You realize that a free throw is a 15 footer right? A 10 footer can be a mid range shot but only from near the baseline

[withoutbias]

You realize that a free throw is a 15 footer right? A 10 footer can be a mid range shot but only from near the baseline

I do realize that a free throw is 15 feet.  What's the point?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I do realize that a free throw is 15 feet.  What's the point?

So if a free throw is 15 feet and mid-range is between the paint and the three point line....what would most 10 foot shots be?

[lawdog77]

So if a free throw is 15 feet and mid-range is between the paint and the three point line....what would most 10 foot shots be?

Time for someone to break out the compass and slide rule, and Pythagorean theorem...math nerds attack!!!!

[MuggsyB]

We rarely take shots inside the paint that aren't one footers other than Oso and Kolek's running shot putt floaters.  These are just facts.  If you want ti attack me over the mid-range terminology that's fine but we have ro find a way to score the ball from inside the arc and in the paint.  I watched the end of both Kansas/Duke and UNLV/Dayton.  In both games the best players on the floor put their head down multiple times down the stretch and got 8-12 foot jumpers in the paint.  If Mitchell and  OMax are hesitant to shoot off the dribble, and in the paint, we have enormous problems. They cannot be on the floor for 25 mins and not to look to score. 

[The Sultan]

We rarely take shots inside the paint that aren't one footers other than Oso and Kolek's running shot putt floaters.  These are just facts.  If you want ti attack me over the mid-range terminology that's fine but we have ro find a way to score the ball from inside the arc and in the paint.  I watched the end of both Kansas/Duke and UNLV/Dayton.  In both games the best players on the floor put their head down multiple times down the stretch and got 8-12 foot jumpers in the paint.  If Mitchell and  OMax are hesitant to shoot off the dribble, and in the paint, we have enormous problems. They cannot be on the floor for 25 mins and not to look to score. 

I think most people would agree that those 8-12 foot jumpers in the paint are important.

But those aren't mid-range jumpers by definition. And no one is "attacking" you. No need to be a victim here.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

We rarely take shots inside the paint that aren't one footers other than Oso and Kolek's running shot putt floaters.  These are just facts.  If you want ti attack me over the mid-range terminology that's fine but we have ro find a way to score the ball from inside the arc and in the paint.  I watched the end of both Kansas/Duke and UNLV/Dayton.  In both games the best players on the floor put their head down multiple times down the stretch and got 8-12 foot jumpers in the paint.  If Mitchell and  OMax are hesitant to shoot off the dribble, and in the paint, we have enormous problems. They cannot be on the floor for 25 mins and not to look to score.

Muggsy, you have been very vocal about people "attacking" you lately. People disagreeing with you or providing another perspective from you or clarifying the terminology that you use is not an "attack". Fans can disagree, it doesn't mean you're being attacked.

There were more 10 footers last night than your giving credit for but no it's not a big part of our offense. It's never going to be. I don't think it's a very big part of Duke, Kansas, UNLV, or Dayton's offense either. You are misremembering the Kansas/Duke game. They combined to go 0/11 on 2 point jumpers over the last 12:22 of the game, so no down the stretch they were not putting their heads down and getting 8-12 foot jumpers multiple times. I didn't watch UNLV/Dayton but glancing at the box it looks like UNLV had a very good jumpshooting 2nd half and Dayton was abysmal.

[🏀]

10' radius around the basket.