2022 World Cup Thread

[panda]

I don't think anyone here is arguing that Berhalter isn't very much in the wrong for letting this get public, and that's a poor reflection on him.
But that doesn't change the fact that Reyna's behavior was a serious issue - by his own admission, even. And all the posts about his reputation at Dortmund or gripes about Berhalter, MLS and the USSF, doesn't change that.

It's OK for there not to be a good guy vs bad guy narrative to this. It seems almost as if some want to make Reyna a martyr here - or at least excuse/ignore his role in this mess -  just because he's on the opposite side of Berhalter. In reality, there's plenty of reason to believe they both acted poorly.

No one from dortmund is obligated to say nice things about him outside of their team structure. Yet, it says a lot when the gm personally vouches for your character.

Gio screwed up. He apologized.

Ggg lied to the media, bungled the role of one of his best players in qualifying and then showed, at best, extreme levels of naivety with this leadership conference debacle. And he still hasn't spoken since the "leak."

The guy is amateur hour personified on the world stage of soccer and shouldn't coach another game for the federation.

[jesmu84]

Sheesh. I hope the next USMNT coach is another from the deep MLS/USSF cabal just to watch heads here explode

[JWags85]

Sheesh. I hope the next USMNT coach is another from the deep MLS/USSF cabal just to watch heads here explode

Lolz, yea, lets waste another 4 years of talent for the Scoop entertainment.  No need to be a smug contrarian clown my man.  I would think we want the same thing.  Feel free to add something, anything, to the conversation other than more tweet links without comment.  Or keep mocking.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Lolz, yea, lets waste another 4 years of talent for the Scoop entertainment.  No need to be a smug contrarian clown my man.  I would think we want the same think.  Feel free to add something, anything, to the conversation other than more tweet links without comment.  Or keep mocking.

Don't forget incessant questions.

[BM1090]

I'm not super familiar with potential US coaching candidates.  Is there any reason it wouldn't be Jesse Marsch for 2026?

[Its DJOver]

I'm not super familiar with potential US coaching candidates.  Is there any reason it wouldn't be Jesse Marsch for 2026?

Hard to pull a coach from a Prem job.  Last time it was offered to him he wasn't interested, and he wasn't even in the Prem at the time.  National team jobs in general are not very glamorous.

[The Sultan]

No, the conversation here has been pretty even handed, as to be expected. 

<reads panda's posts again>

Nope.

[Its DJOver]

A couple of lucky bounces on the run to the second, but what was that set piece by Croatia?

[panda]

<reads panda's posts again>

Nope.

😎😎😎

[jesmu84]

Lolz, yea, lets waste another 4 years of talent for the Scoop entertainment.  No need to be a smug contrarian clown my man.  I would think we want the same thing.  Feel free to add something, anything, to the conversation other than more tweet links without comment.  Or keep mocking.

We do want the same thing. I desperately want a world-class manager to come in and take the young talent to the next level.

I just don't believe there's a big conspiracy afoot.

I believe GGG told Gio early on he wouldn't be starting or playing a ton of minutes. That pissed Gio off and he loafed for a bit. That pissed his teammates and coaches off. He was asked to apologize. His teammates accepted the apology.

I don't think there's any more to the story.

I do think early in the discussions of this story, as with lots of new stories, there was a bunch of half-truths and misunderstandings and bad info being circulated. I don't truly think any of that was intentional.

[jesmu84]

Don't forget incessant questions.

🐷🐷

[JWags85]

We do want the same thing. I desperately want a world-class manager to come in and take the young talent to the next level.

I just don't believe there's a big conspiracy afoot.

I believe GGG told Gio early on he wouldn't be starting or playing a ton of minutes. That pissed Gio off and he loafed for a bit. That pissed his teammates and coaches off. He was asked to apologize. His teammates accepted the apology.

I don't think there's any more to the story.

I do think early in the discussions of this story, as with lots of new stories, there was a bunch of half-truths and misunderstandings and bad info being circulated. I don't truly think any of that was intentional.

Nobody is clattering on about a conspiracy, not even panda.  Just pointing out, in my/his opinion, misrepresentations of things by the USSF loyal media and abysmal management and leadership by Berhalter.

As for your last part, we'll have to agree to disagree, cause I think it was absolutely intentional.  I actually don't think it was necessarily intentional by Berhalter, but those carrying his water and behind the scenes at USSF absolutely played things a certain way.  He is/was over his head and handled the situation poorly.  No amount of glowing bromides from the US press will convince me otherwise.  Again, not a conspiracy, just pathetic leadership and CYA by a mess of an org.

[tower912]

GOAT rodeo?

[ZiggysFryBoy]

🐷🐷

You don't get it.

[Pakuni]

Nobody is clattering on about a conspiracy, not even panda.  Just pointing out, in my/his opinion, misrepresentations of things by the USSF loyal media and abysmal management and leadership by Berhalter.

As for your last part, we'll have to agree to disagree, cause I think it was absolutely intentional.  I actually don't think it was necessarily intentional by Berhalter, but those carrying his water and behind the scenes at USSF absolutely played things a certain way.  He is/was over his head and handled the situation poorly.  No amount of glowing bromides from the US press will convince me otherwise.  Again, not a conspiracy, just pathetic leadership and CYA by a mess of an org.

You say you don't believe any of this is a conspiracy, and yet ...
1. You've said the only reason Berhalter got the job was because of his brother and loyalty to "inner goals."
2. You've suggested there's some kind of media cabal working in concert with the USSF to plant misleading and untrue stories concerning Reyna.
3. You've suggested these stories about Reyna were planted as a cover for his lack of playing time.
4. You've suggested that current or former players who've made remarks critical of Reyna are doing so out allegiance to MLS.
5. You've suggested that there's some MLS vs non-MLS schism among the players.

All these things sound rather, well, conspiratorial.
You're suggesting time and again that those with whom you disagree aren't simply people with good intentions but wrong opinions. You claim they are acting in underhanded and dishonest ways, to push false narratives and hidden agendas.
That's textbook conspiracy, isn't it?

[panda]

You say you don't believe any of this is a conspiracy, and yet ...
1. You've said the only reason Berhalter got the job was because of his brother and loyalty to "inner goals."
2. You've suggested there's some kind of media cabal working in concert with the USSF to plant misleading and untrue stories concerning Reyna.
3. You've suggested these stories about Reyna were planted as a cover for his lack of playing time.
4. You've suggested that current or former players who've made remarks critical of Reyna are doing so out allegiance to MLS.
5. You've suggested that there's some MLS vs non-MLS schism among the players.

All these things sound rather, well, conspiratorial.
You're suggesting time and again that those with whom you disagree aren't simply people with good intentions but wrong opinions. You claim they are acting in underhanded and dishonest ways, to push false narratives and hidden agendas.
That's textbook conspiracy, isn't it?

Most of that it true. It looks conspiratorial to the untrained eye, but it's just plain old USSF incompetence on many different levels. USSF has worked to boost up MLS in the very early days when it needed help however that continues now even though MLS has proven they're a legitimate organization which can run on their own.

J Berhalter hired Ernie Stewart. The federation interviewed one person who wowed them in the interview process. He did such a good job he made them forget about about his unsuccessful spell in Sweden and unremarkable stay in MLS. Hint - the one person interviewed wasn't, Julen Lopetegui, Peter Vermes, Jesse Marsch, Oscar Pareja, Tab Ramos, or Tata Martino. It was the brother of the guy who hired Ernie Stewart. Obviously no funny business took place though :-/

[jesmu84]

You don't get it.

If true, would you like to explain it?

[21Jumpstreet]

GOAT rodeo?

Incredible performance

[jesmu84]

Nobody is clattering on about a conspiracy, not even panda.  Just pointing out, in my/his opinion, misrepresentations of things by the USSF loyal media and abysmal management and leadership by Berhalter.

As for your last part, we'll have to agree to disagree, cause I think it was absolutely intentional.  I actually don't think it was necessarily intentional by Berhalter, but those carrying his water and behind the scenes at USSF absolutely played things a certain way.  He is/was over his head and handled the situation poorly.  No amount of glowing bromides from the US press will convince me otherwise.  Again, not a conspiracy, just pathetic leadership and CYA by a mess of an org.

I have always held the belief that GGG hiring was not transparent, at best.

That said, he's gotten acceptable, not great, results. Most likely time to move on. Though I think the players should have a bit of a say in the situation.

With regard to the journalists/pundits/analysts/whatever...I just don't know that I buy there's that much influence from USSF that they can hold sway/power over folks to write/talk a certain way. Or that any of those individuals care enough about GGG/USSF to write it so biased.

[panda]

I have always held the belief that GGG hiring was not transparent, at best.

That said, he's gotten acceptable, not great, results. Most likely time to move on. Though I think the players should have a bit of a say in the situation.

With regard to the journalists/pundits/analysts/whatever...I just don't know that I buy there's that much influence from USSF that they can hold sway/power over folks to write/talk a certain way. Or that any of those individuals care enough about GGG/USSF to write it so biased.

Google the origins of SUM and the direct link between USSF and MLS. Knowing more about SUM, its not a big leap to believe USSF also influences certain journalists to portray them in a certain light or push narratives on their behalf.

[Pakuni]

Most of that it true. It looks conspiratorial to the untrained eye, but it's just plain old USSF incompetence on many different levels. USSF has worked to boost up MLS in the very early days when it needed help however that continues now even though MLS has proven they're a legitimate organization which can run on their own.

J Berhalter hired Ernie Stewart. The federation interviewed one person who wowed them in the interview process. He did such a good job he made them forget about about his unsuccessful spell in Sweden and unremarkable stay in MLS. Hint - the one person interviewed wasn't, Julen Lopetegui, Peter Vermes, Jesse Marsch, Oscar Pareja, Tab Ramos, or Tata Martino. It was the brother of the guy who hired Ernie Stewart. Obviously no funny business took place though :-/

What you're describing is a conspiracy.

[panda]

What you're describing is a conspiracy.

Which part

[Its DJOver]

Arena was fired October '17.  It made sense to wait until after Russia '18 to make a hire as there were likely to be big names opening up.  GGG wasn't hired until Dec '18.  Big names were approached and politely turned down the job before it could even get to an interview stage.  I'm sure GGG's standing within the USSF didn't hurt his chances, but the job also was not very attractive, even as far as national team jobs go.  None of this will matter as long as the next hire is the right one.  My concern is that it won't be.

[Pakuni]

Which part

Pretty much all of it.

[JWags85]

You say you don't believe any of this is a conspiracy, and yet ...
1. You've said the only reason Berhalter got the job was because of his brother and loyalty to "inner goals."
2. You've suggested there's some kind of media cabal working in concert with the USSF to plant misleading and untrue stories concerning Reyna.
3. You've suggested these stories about Reyna were planted as a cover for his lack of playing time.
4. You've suggested that current or former players who've made remarks critical of Reyna are doing so out allegiance to MLS.
5. You've suggested that there's some MLS vs non-MLS schism among the players.

All these things sound rather, well, conspiratorial.
You're suggesting time and again that those with whom you disagree aren't simply people with good intentions but wrong opinions. You claim they are acting in underhanded and dishonest ways, to push false narratives and hidden agendas.
That's textbook conspiracy, isn't it?

Ok, how about this.  I don't think there was a conspiracy in this WC story.  But I do think there is a conspiracy to consolidate, retain, and direct power, as well as push agendas (aka $$$) inside USSF that is not in the best interests of the national team's greater success.

As panda just mentioned, the SUM/USSF/MLS alliance has made a TON of money as MLS has grown, and none of it has anything to do with having a USMNT that contends on the world stage.  As a matter of fact, I don't think the agendas are "hidden", I think its pretty damn clear.

As for 4 and 5, I think its very much a real thing.  I don't know if its a schism that divides the locker room on a regular basis, but one group needs MLS and the cozy MLS/USSF relationship to make large salaries and get caps, the other would be in the exact same position if MLS didn't exist or was the equivalent of the Costa Rican/Honduran league.  That breeds a differing set of loyalties or perspectives.  I don't know how that is deniable.

With regard to the journalists/pundits/analysts/whatever...I just don't know that I buy there's that much influence from USSF that they can hold sway/power over folks to write/talk a certain way. Or that any of those individuals care enough about GGG/USSF to write it so biased.

The quoted and your point #2 is not some grand conspiracy.  Adam Schefter does it with the NFL.  Writers do it with the NBA, even moreso when Stern was around, MLB, etc...  Favorable and deferential coverage means access and scoops and perks. 

But serious question, both to Pakuni and Jesu...look at the hiring of Berhalter.  Look back to the stories about candidates at the time, including Lopetegui who actually approached US Soccer himself.  I don't know how anyone can look at the circumstances of Berhalter's hiring and go "nothing to see here, this is a well run Federation committed to winning a WC.  This is an incredible thread highlighting it...

https://twitter.com/FootyMoments21/status/1600210519889018881