MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: Its DJOver on November 09, 2022, 04:27:21 PM
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So much of the build up has been focused on the off field issues (and deservedly so), so it will be nice to actually see a ball kicked.
USMNT roster just dropped.
https://twitter.com/USMNT/status/1590469664211374081/photo/1
Discussion about Pepi seems obvious but I think it's the right call.
CB depth went from a strength to a weakness with Miles Robinson and Chris Richards out.
Can't wait to see how we line up match one. Still don't think we get out of the group.
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Kind of wild to not see Steffen there, but I don't think its the wrong choice. Turner is gonna be the man regardless.
Glad we are bringing Jordan Morris and his 7 MLS goals last year and no meaningful USMNT goals instead of Jordan Pefok who is playing fantastic for one of the best teams in Germany. Him being frozen out of the US team in favor of someone like Morris, is baffling.
Hopefully Aaron Long and Tim Ream stay glued to the bench.
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So much of the build up has been focused on the off field issues (and deservedly so), so it will be nice to actually see a ball kicked.
USMNT roster just dropped.
https://twitter.com/USMNT/status/1590469664211374081/photo/1
Discussion about Pepi seems obvious but I think it's the right call.
CB depth went from a strength to a weakness with Miles Robinson and Chris Richards out.
Can't wait to see how we line up match one. Still don't think we get out of the group.
He's been great in the Netherlands and is much more impressive than either Wright or Ferreira.
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He's been great in the Netherlands and is much more impressive than either Wright or Ferreira.
This - he leaves mls to prove himself. Fails at Augsburg (bad situation for a young 9) and seeks out a move to better his situation at Groningen. Brutal for him after he worked so hard to improve his stock, all while Feriera sits pretty in MLS.
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He's been great in the Netherlands and is much more impressive than either Wright or Ferreira.
Both Ferreira and Wright have been much more consistent than Pepi. We're what? 6 weeks removed from talking about if Pepi's goal scoring drought would hit a full year. Ended at only 345 days. I have no problem taking either of them over Pepi.
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Ferreira isn’t a 9 and has played terribly for the national team. He’s GGG’s guy but that doesn’t mean others are more qualified.
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This - he leaves mls to prove himself. Fails at Augsburg (bad situation for a young 9) and seeks out a move to better his situation at Groningen. Brutal for him after he worked so hard to improve his stock, all while Feriera sits pretty in MLS.
Both Ferreira and Wright have been much more consistent than Pepi. We're what? 6 weeks removed from talking about if Pepi's goal scoring drought would hit a full year. Ended at only 345 days. I have no problem taking either of them over Pepi.
Pepi has been better but also remember the Eredivise is a goalfest and not much higher than MLS outside of PSV, Ajax, and Feyenoord. Altidore scored 40 goals in 2 seasons there and never broke 15 again, even in MLS. It’s not like Pepi is suddenly a revelation in a tough league. He’s had a decent month in a soft league after a brutal year.
Meanwhile, Haji Wright had a really nice loan spell in Turkey. Then he follows it up by starting absolutely scorching this year. 8 goals in his last 10 matches. 9 in the first 12. He’s the epitome of in form and poaching. He’s absolutely the right call over Pepi at this moment.
I totally forgot Ferreira only is relevant because he scored 4 goals in a USMNT…against f-ing Grenada. Both him and Morris over Pefok crushing it in the 2nd or 3rd best league in the world is grating on me.
Also, just me personally, I have no use for Roldan on that roster, would have much rather seen Cardoso or Tillman brought for youth and experience. I think both of them are playing Europa/Champions League football by the next WC
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The injury bug hit jozy hard and frankly didn’t make a ton of great club choices on his way up. Hello sunderland.
Pepi has scored for the usmnt in real games during qualifiers while ferreira has looked terrible against any semblance of real competition.
I have a real problem with Ferreira as he’s proven time and time again w usmnt he’s nowhere near the quality but continues to get the call.
Oh well.
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The injury bug hit jozy hard and frankly didn’t make a ton of great club choices on his way up. Hello sunderland.
Pepi has scored for the usmnt in real games during qualifiers while ferreira has looked terrible against any semblance of real competition.
I have a real problem with Ferreira as he’s proven time and time again w usmnt he’s nowhere near the quality but continues to get the call.
Oh well.
It wasn't meant to be a dig on Jozy, more a commentary on the dynamics of the Dutch League. Jozy at his peak was a great hold up/target forward, never a super prolific scorer or poacher. I almost brought up Aron Johanssen's prolific time with AZ as well.
If we're talking Pepi vs Ferreira, then I don't have any disagreement at all. Pepi all the way. I just really like Haji Wright too and think he gets overlook by many fans.
I called out Morris instead of Ferreira cause he's shied away from top competition his entire career and hasn't even been all that special in MLS in awhile. Not to mention he hasn't scored a meaningful USMNT in 5+ years. If the manager wasn't an MLS guy like GREGGGG then neither would have been selected.
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Both Ferreira and Wright have been much more consistent than Pepi. We're what? 6 weeks removed from talking about if Pepi's goal scoring drought would hit a full year. Ended at only 345 days. I have no problem taking either of them over Pepi.
Ferreira hasn't scored in months yet he's more consistent than Pepi? Dude couldn't hit water if he fell off a boat.
Thinking Wright provides something that can't be found in Pepi (a guy who had a large hand in qualifying the USA) because he's scoring for a mid-table team in an irrelevant league where he's punking the likes of Sivasspor and Gazientap is fantastical.
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Ferreira hasn't scored in months yet he's more consistent than Pepi? Dude couldn't hit water if he fell off a boat.
Thinking Wright provides something that can't be found in Pepi (a guy who had a large hand in qualifying the USA) because he's scoring for a mid-table team in an irrelevant league where he's punking the likes of Sivasspor and Gazientap is fantastical.
I mean, statistics disagree with you. Pepi hasn't scored in 2022 for country. Sure 4 of Ferreira's 5 this year came from one game against Grenada, but he also scored 18 goals for club this past year.
One hot/cold 6 week stretch will not make/break your WC place. Look at England, Kalvin Phillips was never in danger of losing his spot on the plane even though he's only had 2 appearances for a combined hour of play this season. Why? Because he's a player that Southgate trusts and was key for them in the Euros.
Pepi had plenty of opportunities, playing for Gregggg this year to earn his spot on the roster. He didn't seize those and thus he's at home for the next month. He's 19, he'll get other chances that he'll hopefully take advantage of.
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Ferreira hasn't scored in months yet he's more consistent than Pepi? Dude couldn't hit water if he fell off a boat.
Thinking Wright provides something that can't be found in Pepi (a guy who had a large hand in qualifying the USA) because he's scoring for a mid-table team in an irrelevant league where he's punking the likes of Sivasspor and Gazientap is fantastical.
Pepi literally plays for a club that is 2 points clear of relegation in a league that is no better than the Super Lig.
The Eredivisie has 5 clubs in the top 125 in Europe. Super Lig has 6. As I said, PSV and Ajax are very good, the rest of the league is as pedestrian as it gets. Those 2 clubs have won 35 of the last 40 league titles. Feyenoord won the other 5. Pepi scoring against Waaljiwk, Dordtrecht, and Sparta Rotterdam isn't some huge own against Wright's competition.
As I said before, there are 2 lame ass MLS strikers that should give way to someone like Pepi before going after a guy like Wright scoring in bunches in a league that features a bunch of players who will play prominent roles on actual World Cup squads.
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Jordan Morris doesn't deserve a spot over Pepi or Pefok, not sure what Berhalter's mindset is there. Pepi got royally screwed here, there was a ton of pressure on him to choose between the US and el Tri, and one of the carrots that was dangled in front of him was a spot at the WC which from everything I've read was pretty much implied that would he be there.
He comes in against Honduras and saves Berhalter's job, because if they don't get a result there, I believe Berhalter gets canned. I believe Pepi also scored soon after that against Jamaica too. He goes to the Bundesliga to an Augsburg team that was fighting relegation and really struggled to score, not the best move for him, but one that was also encouraged by Berhalter.
You can call up 26 players this year and you have zero Mexican-American players on the roster. Will Brandon Vasquez, Jonathan Gomez or any other dual national take that into account when it is time for them to pick which team they'll represent?
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Pepi literally plays for a club that is 2 points clear of relegation in a league that is no better than the Super Lig.
The Eredivisie has 5 clubs in the top 125 in Europe. Super Lig has 6. As I said, PSV and Ajax are very good, the rest of the league is as pedestrian as it gets. Those 2 clubs have won 35 of the last 40 league titles. Feyenoord won the other 5. Pepi scoring against Waaljiwk, Dordtrecht, and Sparta Rotterdam isn't some huge own against Wright's competition.
As I said before, there are 2 lame ass MLS strikers that should give way to someone like Pepi before going after a guy like Wright scoring in bunches in a league that features a bunch of players who will play prominent roles on actual World Cup squads.
The Eredivisie is top heavy but it is better than the Turkish Super Lig top to bottom and I would take, PSV, Ajax and Feyenoord over their top teams.
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Berhalter values XG and the USMNT typically has their highest XG games when Ferreira is in the XI. His movement is good and he's almost always in the right spot. Obviously, he needs to finish more. But I can understand why he's the preferred choice. He's also been in poor form lately so hopefully he can turn it around.
I couldn't care less about Wright/Pepi/Morris. Neither was going to play more than 10 minutes per game. But Morris is the most baffling inclusion to me. His late Nations League goal at El Salvador in June must be carrying a lot of weight.
Rest of the roster is fine.
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The Eredivisie is top heavy but it is better than the Turkish Super Lig top to bottom and I would take, PSV, Ajax and Feyenoord over their top teams.
Nobody is questioning the bolded. Those 3 are better than the Galatasaray, Fenerbache, or Besiktas. But after those top 3, there is nothing statistically to separate the rest from the rest of the Super Lig. Golden can mock Sivasspor but they are playing in Europa the last few years and would thump a Groningen club who isn't competing at the top of the Eredivisie. There are plenty of solid clubs who aren't household names and they are attracting talent who just miss out on the top 4 Euro leagues
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Nobody is questioning the bolded. Those 3 are better than the Galatasaray, Fenerbache, or Besiktas. But after those top 3, there is nothing statistically to separate the rest from the rest of the Super Lig. Golden can mock Sivasspor but they are playing in Europa the last few years and would thump a Groningen club who isn't competing at the top of the Eredivisie. There are plenty of solid clubs who aren't household names and they are attracting talent who just miss out on the top 4 Euro leagues
BTW, I do think Haji Wright should be part of the roster, if it were up to me, Pepi and Pefok are in, Morris and Ferreira are out.
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It wasn't meant to be a dig on Jozy, more a commentary on the dynamics of the Dutch League. Jozy at his peak was a great hold up/target forward, never a super prolific scorer or poacher. I almost brought up Aron Johanssen's prolific time with AZ as well.
If we're talking Pepi vs Ferreira, then I don't have any disagreement at all. Pepi all the way. I just really like Haji Wright too and think he gets overlook by many fans.
I called out Morris instead of Ferreira cause he's shied away from top competition his entire career and hasn't even been all that special in MLS in awhile. Not to mention he hasn't scored a meaningful USMNT in 5+ years. If the manager wasn't an MLS guy like GREGGGG then neither would have been selected.
Never understood the Morris infatuation dating all the way back to Klinsy. Nowhere near dynamic enough to play at the top level.
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Is there pressure to take MLS players, all else being equal?
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Never understood the Morris infatuation dating all the way back to Klinsy. Nowhere near dynamic enough to play at the top level.
I understood it a bit circa 2014-15. He was great in college, strong in the U23s, made sense. However, when he turned down Werder Bremen and made it very clear he was happy and content to play at home for Seattle indefinitely, I was over him. He hit his ceiling at 22-23. How he's stayed in favor is baffling to me. I was always hard on Donovan for being an MLS safety player, but at least he went on loan to Europe and the stature of Americans in Europe wasn't what it is now. Morris had no excuse but being soft.
Is there pressure to take MLS players, all else being equal?
Maybe a bit from US Soccer, but I think thats dissipated since this generation is becoming notable and prolific for Champions League clubs. Gregggg is very much a piece of the MLS machine since he went back to the Crew and clearly likes to favor guys from a league he knows well. He's been better at times for the USMNT than I expected, but his MLS bias is one of his worst traits IMO.
MLS has grown a ton and they deserve credit for that. But its still very much a developmental league. If you under 25 and good enough to be getting National Team caps, you have zero business playing in MLS, IMO.
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I understood it a bit circa 2014-15. He was great in college, strong in the U23s, made sense. However, when he turned down Werder Bremen and made it very clear he was happy and content to play at home for Seattle indefinitely, I was over him. He hit his ceiling at 22-23. How he's stayed in favor is baffling to me. I was always hard on Donovan for being an MLS safety player, but at least he went on loan to Europe and the stature of Americans in Europe wasn't what it is now. Morris had no excuse but being soft.
Maybe a bit from US Soccer, but I think thats dissipated since this generation is becoming notable and prolific for Champions League clubs. Gregggg is very much a piece of the MLS machine since he went back to the Crew and clearly likes to favor guys from a league he knows well. He's been better at times for the USMNT than I expected, but his MLS bias is one of his worst traits IMO.
MLS has grown a ton and they deserve credit for that. But its still very much a developmental league. If you under 25 and good enough to be getting National Team caps, you have zero business playing in MLS, IMO.
At least donovan succeeded on the international level. Morris has done nothing.
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Does aaronsons name listed as MF matter?
Is this roster locked into 4 at the back? I don't think they have any decent wingbacks
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What would your starting lineup look like?
Turner
Dest-zimmerman-ream-robinson
Adams
Musah-weston
Aaronson-sargent-pulisic
What is greggggs lineup going to look like?
Turner
Dest-zimmerman-long-robinson
Musah-adams-weston
Weah-fereria-pulisic
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What should the expectations be?
I think the talent is there for a quarterfinal finish, regardless of opponent.
Not getting out of the group is hugely disappointing.
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What should the expectations be?
I think the talent is there for a quarterfinal finish, regardless of opponent.
Not getting out of the group is hugely disappointing.
I don't know the updated numbers, but the US had the youngest average age in the WC by two full years prior to Ream's addition. I think getting out of the group should be the expectation. The talent is there. Iran and Wales won't be cakewalks, but the US should be the 2nd best team in the group.
Drawing Qatar, Netherlands, Ecuador or Senegal in the Round of 16 isn't the worst thing either. Those teams are beatable. I don't see a path beyond that since they'd likely draw France or Argentina in the QF.
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I don't know the updated numbers, but the US had the youngest average age in the WC by two full years prior to Ream's addition. I think getting out of the group should be the expectation. The talent is there. Iran and Wales won't be cakewalks, but the US should be the 2nd best team in the group.
Drawing Qatar, Netherlands, Ecuador or Senegal in the Round of 16 isn't the worst thing either. Those teams are beatable. I don't see a path beyond that since they'd likely draw France or Argentina in the QF.
Agree with this. Wales doesn't scare me much and worst case scenario is conceding an early goal against Iran and then they park the bus with their tough D. I think 2nd is likely, but if they steal a draw from England, who knows.
Qatar would be a dream in the 16, but unlikely. Ecuador would be nice as the US would likely have 4 of the best 5 players on the pitch at a given moment. Netherlands is Jekly and Hyde but thats still a pretty tough roster. Senegal would have the edge, unless Mane can't go. Then its probably a narrow advantage to the US provided they can crack that Koulibaly, Toure, Diallo and Mendy contingent at the back.
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Agree with this. Wales doesn't scare me much and worst case scenario is conceding an early goal against Iran and then they park the bus with their tough D. I think 2nd is likely, but if they steal a draw from England, who knows.
Qatar would be a dream in the 16, but unlikely. Ecuador would be nice as the US would likely have 4 of the best 5 players on the pitch at a given moment. Netherlands is Jekly and Hyde but thats still a pretty tough roster. Senegal would have the edge, unless Mane can't go. Then its probably a narrow advantage to the US provided they can crack that Koulibaly, Toure, Diallo and Mendy contingent at the back.
This us team really concerns me. On top of youth, they looked horrendous in their two lead up games to the WC. Also struggled during qualifying. There are lots of brand names on this roster, but GGG attempting to manage the team like a club squad may make for a quick exit.
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This us team really concerns me. On top of youth, they looked horrendous in their two lead up games to the WC. Also struggled during qualifying. There are lots of brand names on this roster, but GGG attempting to manage the team like a club squad may make for a quick exit.
I would add in that the fact that injuries have prevented the top players from being on the pitch together regularly could likely impact how well they step up to their potential.
I think the Wales game is crucial as a means to take pressure off. One point is a must, three points go a long way towards getting out of the group. In that game, I hope that Bale starts, as I don't think he can be effective for a full 90, and I'd be scared to have him come on as a "super sub" for 15-20 min against a tired US defense.
In that same logic, I might lean towards starting Weah and having Aaronson being the high energy guy off the bench.
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(http://it.ucmerced.edu/sites/it.ucmerced.edu/files/page/images/spongebob2.jpg)
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I would add in that the fact that injuries have prevented the top players from being on the pitch together regularly could likely impact how well they step up to their potential.
I think the Wales game is crucial as a means to take pressure off. One point is a must, three points go a long way towards getting out of the group. In that game, I hope that Bale starts, as I don't think he can be effective for a full 90, and I'd be scared to have him come on as a "super sub" for 15-20 min against a tired US defense.
In that same logic, I might lean towards starting Weah and having Aaronson being the high energy guy off the bench.
Assuming we still roll with a 4-3-3, those front six spots are going to be very interesting. I would think TA, WMK, CP, and a no. 9 (whether it be HW, JF or JS) are slotted into 4 of them, but who fills out the rest? Do you trust Gio's health? Musah has been on form. Weah and Aaronson would be in the mix too. Anticipating that first starting XI.
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I'd liked to see a starting lineup similar to what jesmu84 posted earlier...
"Turner
Dest-Zimmerman-Ream-Robinson
Adams
Musah-Weston
AaronsonWeah-sargentReyna-Pulisic
But, I would start Weah instead of Aaronson, to have Brenden's great energy and speed come off the bench (and Weah is strong out wide and delivering crosses). More, I'd consider seeing if Gio could start as a false 9 as a way of getting him in and dealing with our lack of strong options for a more traditional striker.
I'm quite sure that Berhalter is unlikely to see things that way, though.
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Fun fact: Besides the Big 5 Euro leagues, no league has more players in the World Cup than MLS.
Not sure that means a whole lot, but it's something.
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I'd liked to see a starting lineup similar to what jesmu84 posted earlier...
"Turner
Dest-Zimmerman-Ream-Robinson
Adams
Musah-Weston
AaronsonWeah-sargentReyna-Pulisic
But, I would start Weah instead of Aaronson, to have Brenden's great energy and speed come off the bench (and Weah is strong out wide and delivering crosses). More, I'd consider seeing if Gio could start as a false 9 as a way of getting him in and dealing with our lack of strong options for a more traditional striker.
I'm quite sure that Berhalter is unlikely to see things that way, though.
I don't think I've ever seen the US use a false 9. Don't want to see them start to break it out at the World Cup.
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I don't think I've ever seen the US use a false 9. Don't want to see them start to break it out at the World Cup.
Fair point. Perhaps not a good time to break it out.
I also think it is a fair criticism of Berhalter that he tends to expect his players to fit into his system, rather than adapt his approach to the strengths of available players. There are a lot of diverse skills on the team, and, moving to the future, I'd hope a coach would build off those abilities.
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Pulling for Poland
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You play a false 9 with this us roster if you believe the most success would come from simply playing their best 11 regardless of position.
I don't like Weah in front of Dest for a whole game. Weah isn't great at tracking back to cover for Dest forward runs. And Weah isn't great coming inside if Dest overlaps.
Makes more sense for Aaronson to play on Dests side
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Fun fact: Besides the Big 5 Euro leagues, no league has more players in the World Cup than MLS.
Not sure that means a whole lot, but it's something.
Its interesting, but I think its in large part to Canada qualifying for the first time in ages. They actually have more MLS players on their roster than the US. Just over a third of their team plays for CF Montreal or Toronto.
The other thing the MLS has done, for better or for worse, has largely overpaid to make itself the developmental league for the Americas. Its always been the spot for above average players from CONCACAF countries, but the league has paid big salaries to up and coming talent from South American countries for DP spots. So you see a couple young guys from the Ecuadorian, Uruguayan, and Colombian national teams in MLS. They aren't good enough for Big 5 Euro leagues, but MLS will pay them 2-3x more than staying in the mediocre domestic leagues or lesser Euro leagues.
Hence a guy like Torres from Uruguay who hasn't really featured for the national team, and was good but not transcendent in the domestic league, getting $1MM to play for Orlando City. Or guys like Mendes and Pallacios from Ecuador who are fine and minor contributors to their national team, but getting $600K to play in MLS.
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You play a false 9 with this us roster if you believe the most success would come from simply playing their best 11 regardless of position.
I don't like Weah in front of Dest for a whole game. Weah isn't great at tracking back to cover for Dest forward runs. And Weah isn't great coming inside if Dest overlaps.
Makes more sense for Aaronson to play on Dests side
Very valid point bolded.
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So I'm assuming that banning all alcohol last minute was always part of the plans when the bid was submitted the same way forcing the tournament to be shifted from summer to fall was always part of the plans when the bid was submitted. I would have to think Budweiser is not real happy with FIFA right about now. Pretty much feels like no matter what happens on the pitch, when people look back this WC is going to be remember for off field antics.
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No alcohol and no access to free water.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-11441727/World-Cup-FIFA-not-providing-water-fountains-despite-temperatures-reaching-33-DEGREES-Qatar.html
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No alcohol is a good idea. No free water is rude.
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So I'm assuming that banning all alcohol last minute was always part of the plans when the bid was submitted the same way forcing the tournament to be shifted from summer to fall was always part of the plans when the bid was submitted. I would have to think Budweiser is not real happy with FIFA right about now. Pretty much feels like no matter what happens on the pitch, when people look back this WC is going to be remember for off field antics.
Don't forget changing the day the tournament starts a few months ago. Also part of the plans when the bid was submitted.
But fear not. They will still have alcohol in the luxury suites.
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Don't forget changing the day the tournament starts a few months ago. Also part of the plans when the bid was submitted.
But fear not. They will still have alcohol in the luxury suites.
They are still selling Bud Zero in the stands. How desperate is one for a drink if they’re buying Bud Zero?
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No alcohol is a good idea. No free water is rude.
Pour the bud light into the water cups. Same thing.
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https://twitter.com/burnerusmnt/status/1593654146640379905?t=Gt2zv222bgFoOubLkf5N2Q&s=19
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No alcohol is a good idea. No free water is rude.
Nerd
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https://twitter.com/tavkhellidze/status/1593592313925754883?t=i6c0wdlQt917-BoEMSEpFg&s=19
https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1593903373061083137?t=1E4XiPdhHodYLG7mfd3hZw&s=19
This is gonna be a crapshow
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https://twitter.com/tavkhellidze/status/1593592313925754883?t=i6c0wdlQt917-BoEMSEpFg&s=19
https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1593903373061083137?t=1E4XiPdhHodYLG7mfd3hZw&s=19
This is gonna be a crapshow
He also said that he understands what it’s like to be discriminated against because he had red hair as a kid.
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He also said that he understands what it’s like to be discriminated against because he had red hair as a kid.
And freckles. Don't forget that freckle discrimination.
And he's running unopposed for a new term as president of FIFA. ::)
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Benzema out whole tourney for France, they might not make it out of the group.
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They'll make it out of the group. Tunisia and Australia aren't very good. But yeah it certainly diminishes their repeat chances.
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They'll make it out of the group. Tunisia and Australia aren't very good. But yeah it certainly diminishes their repeat chances.
Australia is trash, Tunisia is a bit feisty, and these huge tournaments France seems either to get bounced early or make a serious run, and don’t see them making a run now with both Pogba and Benzema out.
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Australia is trash, Tunisia is a bit feisty, and these huge tournaments France seems either to get bounced early or make a serious run, and don’t see them making a run now with both Pogba and Benzema out.
Nkunku out too. And kante.
They still have depth, but lost a lot of horses.
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3 of the top 5 in the Ballon D’Or won’t be in the tournament with Mane and Benzema injured, and Mane and Senegal knocking out Egypt. Brutal
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Yuk. Fox coverage just glossing over everything unseemly about this. Looks like I’ll be tuning into the games but that’s about it.
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Yuk. Fox coverage just glossing over everything unseemly about this. Looks like I’ll be tuning into the games but that’s about it.
Be more specific Fluffy. Do you mean the Qatari government prejudices? I haven't really followed.
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Be more specific Fluffy. Do you mean the Qatari government prejudices? I haven't really followed.
Seriously? Look it up.
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Seriously? Look it up.
They' pretty much suck when it comes to basic human rights in Qatar. They said nothing about this?
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It was known. The proper contribution was made to FIFA.
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It was known. The proper contribution was made to FIFA.
Yep. I thought this was common knowledge.
I'm also guessing it's more like 10K migrants dead in 10 years.
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Yuk. Fox coverage just glossing over everything unseemly about this. Looks like I’ll be tuning into the games but that’s about it.
If you had expectation of anyone, including fox, calling out anything in Qatar, well, I don't know what to tell you.
I'm sure the qataris were explicit in their expectations of coverage for anyone allowed in the country
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If you had expectation of anyone, including fox, calling out anything in Qatar, well, I don't know what to tell you.
I'm sure the qataris were explicit in their expectations of coverage for anyone allowed in the country
I stand somewhat corrected:
https://twitter.com/bubbaprog/status/1594365031654662144?t=RwLcvzCdhbKyJpO_MRa6eg&s=19
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Yuk. Fox coverage just glossing over everything unseemly about this. Looks like I’ll be tuning into the games but that’s about it.
https://twitter.com/benjstrauss/status/1593617340914143234?t=GiNTIay9QAQMnDP-o3g9bQ&s=19
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Time to get psyched...
Landon's goal in 2010 (where were you?): https://youtu.be/k29wBfLmNP0 (https://youtu.be/k29wBfLmNP0)
Fans' reaction: https://youtu.be/jbn3rOPmR9w (https://youtu.be/jbn3rOPmR9w)
Let's go USA!
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Fox's online coverage sucks out loud. Remember when ESPN had the broadcast rights, and they would embed highlights in the gamecast timeline like, moments after the play? Those were the days. Fox just has some sort of disorganized fake twitter feed from hell.
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Opening US goal was absolutely gorgeous. Perfect run from Weah, beautiful slip ball from Pulisic, brilliant composed finish from Weah. Well deserved after the US was the clear aggressor dominating possession and chances all first half.
Referee is terrible. I don't think he's screwing the US, but he's just awful and out of his depth.
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Opening US goal was absolutely gorgeous. Perfect run from Weah, beautiful slip ball from Pulisic, brilliant composed finish from Weah. Well deserved after the US was the clear aggressor dominating possession and chances all first half.
Referee is terrible. I don't think he's screwing the US, but he's just awful and out of his depth.
Who even talks like this? Gorgeous, beautiful, perfect, and brilliant all to describe a single possession? Deserving a result because style of play?
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Who even talks like this? Gorgeous, beautiful, perfect, and brilliant all to describe a single possession? Deserving a result because style of play?
Huh?
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Correct call.
Goal differential now to get out of the pool.
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Felt like we used to much gas in the first half, were never going to be able to keep up that intensity the entire game.
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Who even talks like this? Gorgeous, beautiful, perfect, and brilliant all to describe a single possession? Deserving a result because style of play?
What are you even talking about.
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Pulisic poor. Mckennie very poor. Zimmerman all time bad challenge. Jordan Morris before gio Reyna = GGG bonehead.
Terrible let down after a great first half and wonderful team goal.
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Pulisic poor. Mckennie very poor. Zimmerman all time bad challenge. Jordan Morris before gio Reyna = GGG bonehead.
Terrible let down after a great first half and wonderful team goal.
Pulisic was really not good in the second half. He had a great motor all match but needed to be better. Jordan Morris coming on basically signaled they were fine with a draw.
Penalty was the correct call, that was beyond stupid by Zimmerman. But holy SH** was that referee awful and worse as the match progressed. Inconsistent, no clue what constitutes a yellow, stopping play for cramps. Give me a break dude.
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Great first half, terrible 2nd half. USMNT showing their best and worst in the same game.
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I'm not sure if greggggg made any adjustments once Wales started pressing and playing direct.
If he did, they were terrible (or players couldn't/didn't execute).
The amount of ball watching/standing in place by the US when in possession was kind of incredible.
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Now USA has to at least draw England to have any real hope of advancing.
If USA loses & Wales draws Iran...
England 6
Wales 2
USA 1
Iran 1
England, already having won the group, can rest all their starters and hands Wales the result.
If USA loses & Wales beats Iran
England 6
Wales 4
USA 1
Iran 0
A 0-0 scrub draw for England & Wales guarantees both advance.
I know everyone is sugar coating this result, but the scheduling puts us in a position where we have to get something out of Friday or hope Iran wins.
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No one is sugar coating anything.
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Let's also not pretend that England's second XI couldn't beat Wales too. There was a lot of talent that was either left on the bench or only played 20 minutes today.
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Which is why ties suck. Play to win the game.
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Which is why ties suck. Play to win the game.
Who even talks like this
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Who even talks like this
low hanging fruit
(https://images.rivals.com/image/upload/f_auto,q_auto,t_large/eutawiisp9jkji5czmnm)
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Who even talks like this
Sorry. Forgot this is the beautiful game I am talking about.
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Now USA has to at least draw England to have any real hope of advancing.
If USA loses & Wales draws Iran...
England 6
Wales 2
USA 1
Iran 1
England, already having won the group, can rest all their starters and hands Wales the result.
If USA loses & Wales beats Iran
England 6
Wales 4
USA 1
Iran 0
A 0-0 scrub draw for England & Wales guarantees both advance.
I know everyone is sugar coating this result, but the scheduling puts us in a position where we have to get something out of Friday or hope Iran wins.
I agree the scheduling is a disadvantage but I strongly disagree that they need a point on Friday to have a shot.
In scenario 1, even England’s backups would be heavy favorites vs. Wales. And they would have fresh legs.
In scenario 2, a draw guarantees both advance but England would still have motivation to go for the throat and win the group. Playing for 0-0 and allowing a late winner would pit them against Netherlands (probably) in the R16.
Unless Wales beats Iran and we get waxed vs. England, I like our chances.
Edit: Netherlands, not Argentina. Mixed up the groups.
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Nothing like non-soccer people weighing in. ::) ::)
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Nothing like non-soccer people weighing in. ::) ::)
*Futbol. Please don't disrespect the beautiful game like that.
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Can see why Ferreira was selected. He's really dynamite in Greg's system.
Hopefully Wright can extricate himself from the milk carton and get some rest for Friday.
Adams, Ream, and Turner were the standouts which is quite an indictment.
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I hated everything about the way the US chose to attack in the final 1/3
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It sounds like this was a bad tie for the USA.
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Whoa
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That is enormous.
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Didn’t think the 4am alarm for a should be drubbing would have been worth it. Wow, I was wrong
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For those of us who don't follow soccer too closely, what would be a comparable upset to seeing USA beat England on Friday? I'm assuming it's not Miracle on Ice territory? Is it UMBC/UVa? Jets/Colts? I'm just looking for a little perspective -- preferably non-hyperbole.
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For those of us who don't follow soccer too closely, what would be a comparable upset to seeing USA beat England on Friday? I'm assuming it's not Miracle on Ice territory? Is it UMBC/UVa? Jets/Colts? I'm just looking for a little perspective -- preferably non-hyperbole.
Well FIFA's ranking (which everyone will tell you is at least somewhat flawed) has England as the #5 team in the world, and the US as #16. England is a legitimate title contender and I actually think 16 is just about right for us. So probably about a 4 seed beating a 1 seed in the S16, to put it in a CBB perspective, give or take a little. Significant, but certainly not at the level of this morning's upset.
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To put it in college football perspective, I would say this would be like Iowa beating Ohio State in the Big Ten Championship game. Not completely unheard of but a pretty rare occurrence.
Saudi Arabia beating Argentina though is like Ohio State losing non conference to Bowling Green.
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Well FIFA's ranking (which everyone will tell you is at least somewhat flawed) has England as the #5 team in the world, and the US as #16. England is a legitimate title contender and I actually think 16 is just about right for us. So probably about a 4 seed beating a 1 seed in the S16, to put it in a CBB perspective, give or take a little. Significant, but certainly not at the level of this morning's upset.
To put it in college football perspective, I would say this would be like Iowa beating Ohio State in the Big Ten Championship game. Not completely unheard of but a pretty rare occurrence.
Saudi Arabia beating Argentina though is like Ohio State losing non conference to Bowling Green.
Thanks for the responses. Reading the thread, I was getting the impression that it was a much bigger upset than I was thinking. The rankings often tell an incomplete story because if you don't follow closely it's hard to know where the huge drop offs occur. What you guys are saying is about where I, as a very casual soccer fan would expect -- pretty unlikely but not earth shattering.
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I hated everything about the way the US chose to attack in the final 1/3
I was scrolling for this.
There weren’t many surprises. 5-3-2 shell for Wales. After working to get the first goal, you put your foot on the gas instead off taking it off of the gas.
Wales, as expected, changed tactics, personnel (Moore) and alignment which meant more direct play from them, a little less possession for the U.S. (which was fine) a little more defending from the U.S. (which was also fine).
But it created several counters, opened space, and too often the final third connecting pass wasn’t good enough, quick enough, or even taken at all. Lots of pulling back, and playing to hold on for 75 minutes. Sometimes you get the result for which the way you play the game.
Overall it was fine, but the opportunity was there to play for 2 or 3 to zero, etc…before possibly conceding a goal.
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I was scrolling for this.
There weren’t many surprises. 5-3-2 shell for Wales. After working to get the first goal, you put your foot on the gas instead off taking it off of the gas.
Wales, as expected, changed tactics, personnel (Moore) and alignment which meant more direct play from them, a little less possession for the U.S. (which was fine) a little more defending from the U.S. (which was also fine).
But it created several counters, opened space, and too often the final third connecting pass wasn’t good enough, quick enough, or even taken at all. Lots of pulling back, and playing to hold on for 75 minutes. Sometimes you get the result for which the way you play the game.
Overall it was fine, but the opportunity was there to play for 2 or 3 to zero nil, etc…before possibly conceding a goal.
FIFY.
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Thanks for the responses. Reading the thread, I was getting the impression that it was a much bigger upset than I was thinking. The rankings often tell an incomplete story because if you don't follow closely it's hard to know where the huge drop offs occur. What you guys are saying is about where I, as a very casual soccer fan would expect -- pretty unlikely but not earth shattering.
And I would be happy with a draw.
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Tunisia dodged one with that VAR review.
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Tunisia dodged one with that VAR review.
Was a handball, but the foul on Denmark occurred before the handling.
I'm glad that the ref went to look at the monitor vs just letting the VAR officials telling him it was a foul/penalty. Gives VAR a bit more credibility, IMO.
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We never really did any prediction stuff for the world cup in this thread. Before we get too far into the tournanment, does anyone have any fun predictions or put any shekels down on any futures? The horse I backed the most was Belgium, with some money on them to reach the quarters, semis, and final. For the odds, I like their golden generation to do the late blooming thing we saw with Spain and to a lesser extent, Portugal. I also have some shares of Ecuador as far as the quarters and Denmark to the semis.
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Are games being shown on Fox all day?
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We never really did any prediction stuff for the world cup in this thread. Before we get too far into the tournanment, does anyone have any fun predictions or put any shekels down on any futures? The horse I backed the most was Belgium, with some money on them to reach the quarters, semis, and final. For the odds, I like their golden generation to do the late blooming thing we saw with Spain and to a lesser extent, Portugal. I also have some shares of Ecuador as far as the quarters and Denmark to the semis.
I like England and the Netherlands as the "just below the clear favorites" (France, Argentina, Brazil) to potentially pull it off.
Are games being shown on Fox all day?
Games in the group stage are generally shown live from 4am CST until about 2pm CST (that's days with 4 games, like today).
Crazy how the schedule seems more about timezone management for the audience than for the players. The US game yesterday started at 10pm in Qatar. Of course, not playing in the heat of the day is a key part of that too.)
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Only 2 goals from open play in around 4 hours of match time thus far today, yuck.
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I was scrolling for this.
There weren’t many surprises. 5-3-2 shell for Wales. After working to get the first goal, you put your foot on the gas instead off taking it off of the gas.
Wales, as expected, changed tactics, personnel (Moore) and alignment which meant more direct play from them, a little less possession for the U.S. (which was fine) a little more defending from the U.S. (which was also fine).
But it created several counters, opened space, and too often the final third connecting pass wasn’t good enough, quick enough, or even taken at all. Lots of pulling back, and playing to hold on for 75 minutes. Sometimes you get the result for which the way you play the game.
Overall it was fine, but the opportunity was there to play for 2 or 3 to zero, etc…before possibly conceding a goal.
I didn't like how they were attacking in the first half. Lots of wasted crosses from Puli, weah, Dest.
In the 2nd, once Wales started pressing, apparently GGG told the team that they needed to kill Wales in transition. They had plenty of chances. But....
https://twitter.com/MattDoyle76/status/1594865982778081281?t=HOQuHS9TSVUxzc8CU_F36g&s=19
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Pulisic was really not good in the second half. He had a great motor all match but needed to be better. Jordan Morris coming on basically signaled they were fine with a draw.
Penalty was the correct call, that was beyond stupid by Zimmerman. But holy SH** was that referee awful and worse as the match progressed. Inconsistent, no clue what constitutes a yellow, stopping play for cramps. Give me a break dude.
I’m not sure who else would take set pieces but pulisic ain’t it. He struggled during qualifying too. Extremely wasteful.
Aaronson should start over mckennie against England. Mckennie injured and not up for the challenge.
Loved what Jedi brought. Constant running, strong in the tackle and positionally solid.
Yedlin looked very nervy coming on. Would prefer scally. I know he’s young but he’s played so well for monchengladbach.
Also didn’t agree with the Sargent substitute. Loved his work rate and Haji couldn’t replicate it. Also different changes were needed and a like for like up top did nothing tactically for us.
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The frogs in early trouble.
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Aussie, aussie, aussie,
oops, oops, oy.
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Disregard. ;D
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Oy, oy, oy
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I’m not sure who else would take set pieces but pulisic ain’t it. He struggled during qualifying too. Extremely wasteful.
Aaronson should start over mckennie against England. Mckennie injured and not up for the challenge.
Loved what Jedi brought. Constant running, strong in the tackle and positionally solid.
Yedlin looked very nervy coming on. Would prefer scally. I know he’s young but he’s played so well for monchengladbach.
Also didn’t agree with the Sargent substitute. Loved his work rate and Haji couldn’t replicate it. Also different changes were needed and a like for like up top did nothing tactically for us.
Totally agree on most of these. Pulisic was delivering such a flat, unplayable ball on any sort of crossed set piece.
Jedi was the most pleasant unexpected surprise yesterday. He was fantastic and all over the place.
I agree Scally needs some run. He and Yedlin are on such wildly different career trajectories. Yedlin has the WC experience but hes been on a downtick for years and Scally is starting for a good Bundesliga team facing top strikers every week.
Need more Aaronson and would love to see some De La Torre, love his energy and attitude.
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LES BLEUS!!!!
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Bonzai!
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The mighty Germans go down! Wow
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And the biggest storyline will still be what happened during the pregame photos.
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Is it just me or has ESPN engaged an AI to write the game story: https://www.espn.com/soccer/report?gameId=633797
Japan scored two late goals to come from behind and stun Germany with a 2-1 win in their World Cup Group E opener on Wednesday.
Midfielder Ilkay Gundogan gave Germany the lead with a penalty on 33 minutes at the Khalifa International Stadium in Doha, and forward Kai Havertz had the ball in the back of the net just ahead of half-time but the goal was ruled out for offside.
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However, Japan hit back with goals from striker Ritsu Doan and Takuma Asano in the final 15 minutes to claim their first ever win over Germany and cause an early tournament upset.
The shock result was a repeat of their 2018 World Cup nightmare when, as defending champions, they lost their opener to Mexico and, after another defeat by South Korea, were condemned to a surprise group-stage exit.
Germany players placed their hands over their mouths during their prematch team photo, while the country's interior minister Nancy Faeser sat next to FIFA president Gianni Infantino wearing the "OneLove" armband as FIFA's threat of sanctions over protest continued.
Hansi Flick's side enjoyed early dominance and were rewarded when Joshua Kimmich picked out David Raum in acres of space in the box and goalkeeper Shuichi Gonda clumsily brought him down as he turned, with Gundogan dispatching the penalty in the 33rd minute.
There was initially little change to the pattern in the second half as Jamal Musiala shot over after a penetrating run and Gundogan clipped a post.
Gonda then made amends with four successive saves to deny Jonas Hofmann and Serge Gnabry, keeping his side in the game.
Germany goalkeeper Manuel Neuer, appearing in his fourth World Cup, was alert to save from Hiroki Sakai and did well again soon after to block from Takumi Minamino, only for fellow substitute Doan to smash in the loose ball.
Suddenly buoyed, Japan pushed on and Asano showed great strength to bring down a high free kick and hold off defender Nico Schlotterbeck and fantastic technique to hammer the ball into the smallest of spaces.
Germany launched all-out attack from then on, to no avail, and now face a potentially must-win game next against Spain.
Japan next face Costa Rica and will already be dreaming of the last 16.
Information from Reuters contributed to this report.
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The mighty Germans go down! Wow
On Saturday my Munich taxi driver taking me to the airport said this was a weak German team by historical German standards.
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On Saturday my Munich taxi driver taking me to the airport said this was a weak German team by historical German standards.
Super interesting, and I think it might apply to several of the historically strong countries. Certainly the changes in the tourney have affected some of the teams with high level club players. WC soccer is certainly a tick down and less time together can’t help. These early round games will be all over the place, I think some of the best will still rise to the top.
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Is it just me or has ESPN engaged an AI to write the game story
Most days I feel the same way about Scoop.
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On Saturday my Munich taxi driver taking me to the airport said this was a weak German team by historical German standards.
They are down. Nowhere near historical.
The program is in flux and they're stuck between generations.
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Had to be even sweeter given a good number of the Japan national team play in the Bundesliga
On Saturday my Munich taxi driver taking me to the airport said this was a weak German team by historical German standards.
That sounds like some classic dry German pessimism. You could say the team is inexperienced, in terms of World Cup caps, but its certainly not weak, even by German standards. Is it an all time XI? No, but seems like some rosy backwards looking glasses.
The defense is not as star studded and stout as its been, but the midfield and attack are completely world class.
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And the biggest storyline will still be what happened during the pregame photos.
What happened?
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What happened?
The Krauts all put their hands over their mouths, to signal that they were being silenced by FIFA in regards to the onelove armbands.
That 2nd Japan goal was amazing.
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That’s great. FIFA has been exposed heavily
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That’s great. FIFA has been exposed heavily
It’s a shame a great spectacle like the World Cup is run by such a corrupt entity but as I’ve always said, sports are as political as anything
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That’s great. FIFA has been exposed heavily
Exposed? I mean (insert Denny Green rant here).
This is nothing new. We've known FIFA to be a corrupt, pay to influence joke for decades. Unexpected twists and new lows can be had, but I don't think this is FIFA being exposed anymore than FIFA being FIFA at its finest
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Exposed? I mean (insert Denny Green rant here).
This is nothing new. We've known FIFA to be a corrupt, pay to influence joke for decades. Unexpected twists and new lows can be had, but I don't think this is FIFA being exposed anymore than FIFA being FIFA at its finest
My reaction was, “wow, they aren’t even trying to hide it anymore.”
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Exposed? I mean (insert Denny Green rant here).
This is nothing new. We've known FIFA to be a corrupt, pay to influence joke for decades. Unexpected twists and new lows can be had, but I don't think this is FIFA being exposed anymore than FIFA being FIFA at its finest
Illinois govenors and presidents of FIFA 🤝 long prison terms for corruption
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Canada has dominated the first half, had a PK, and trails 1-0.
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Went 3-0 this morning with Morocco +0.5, Japan +1.25 (wish I'd taken the ML but oh well) and Spain -2.25.
Doubled down on Canada +1. Might have been foolish, Belgium can strike in a flash. But that was a dominant first half.
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Of note, the referee in this match is the one who blew the final whistle early, not once but twice, in that disaster AFCON match...and then blew it again early in first half extra time. Between him and the Qatari ref disaster in the US match, FIFA crushing that aspect of the tourney as well.
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Of note, the referee in this match is the one who blew the final whistle early, not once but twice, in that disaster AFCON match...and then blew it again early in first half extra time. Between him and the Qatari ref disaster in the US match, FIFA crushing that aspect of the tourney as well.
Officiating overall has been pretty good. But this crew is just bad. (BELCAN)
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Really hoping Iran can find a goal here.
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Isn’t a scoreless draw the best outcome?
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No, I wanted 1-0 Iran. Means the US beating Iran virtually guarantees them through. 2-0 is fine. Even if the US loses, they still vault Iran with a win. Hold England to no more than a 1-goal win tonight and Wales would have to beat England by more than USA beats Iran.
Reality is you virtually always have to get at least one win to advance. The Wales draw made beating England or Iran mandatory, and now beating Iran virtually guarantees we're through.
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Not sure this World Cup is helping Qatar’s image in any way.
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Isn’t a scoreless draw the best outcome?
I was under the impression scoreless draw gave the US more scenarios under which they could advance which meant higher likelihood they would advance.
With Iran win, it's essentially beat Iran and they're through, regardless of England result (assuming Wales doesn't beat England)
That said... I think GGG should sit players with yellows and have defined minutes restrictions for other impact starters. Don't burn yourself out against England
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Not sure this World Cup is helping Qatar’s image in any way.
I never viewed this WC as sportwashing, more just a tribute to ego and Qatar’s wealth.
For the discussion of Germany being weak historically, this Dutch team is resoundingly meh for them.
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I was under the impression scoreless draw gave the US more scenarios under which they could advance which meant higher likelihood they would advance.
With Iran win, it's essentially beat Iran and they're through, regardless of England result (assuming Wales doesn't beat England)
That said... I think GGG should sit players with yellows and have defined minutes restrictions for other impact starters. Don't burn yourself out against England
Agree a 0-0 draw was the best case scenario. Wales isn’t getting 3 points vs. England regardless of who England throws out there.
Iran winning was fine though. Keeps the US alive even with a loss today.
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I don’t know if I’ve mentioned it previously, but I loved Stu Holden as a player, and love him as much as a commentator. He’s still young and developing his voice, but he’s easily the best American color/analyst across Fox and ESPN
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Robinson having a tough go. We should have some confidence, making some good things happen. I like the McKennie movement.
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Haji Wright has been excellent, real dynamic up front. Love Dest’s push forward and activity so far
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Jordan Pickford is exactly the kind of keeper that no one wants to play in front of. Constantly berating his defenders.
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Excuse my ignorance but if it's nil-nil does the USA have to best Iran to advance?
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WTF was that?
Zero goals in two games, correct??
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Oof, throw it in the mixer on the last free kick. Good work by the boys
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WTF was that?
Zero goals in two games, correct??
They tied 1-1 against Wales.
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WTF was that?
Zero goals in two games, correct??
1-1
0-0
A tie is a great result vs England. Wales was a bad result.
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Watched the game. Not enjoyable for me, sorry.
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1-1
0-0
A tie is a great result vs England. Wales was a bad result.
But they have to beat Iran, right?
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But they have to beat Iran, right?
Win and advance.
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Win and advance.
But if we tie Iran advances?? Good freaking grief.
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But if we tie Iran advances?? Good freaking grief.
Correct.
That's why crapping the bed vs Wales was so tough. But welcome to the USMNT, nothing is easy.
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Correct.
That's why crapping the bed vs Wales was so tough. But welcome to the USMNT, nothing is easy.
I thought the Wales result sounded like a disaster despite some media reports.
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I thought the Wales result sounded like a disaster despite some media reports.
IIRC we are ranked lower than Wales so a loss was more expected than a win.
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If you can’t beat Iran you don’t deserve the knockouts anyway
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IIRC we are ranked lower than Wales so a loss was more expected than a win.
FIFA rankings are historically inaccurate
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If you can’t beat Iran you don’t deserve the knockouts anyway
That sounds reasonable.
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The result wasn't the best on the scoreboard.
But we held our own, or played better, against a top nation.
No complaints about anything today, on the whole.
GGG really impressed me with the switch to 4-4-2. But he really annoyed me with subs 15 min late.
Tyler Adams is incredible. Tim ream fantastic on Kane. Mckennie was his best self. Pulisic was really good and clearly recognized his errors in Wales not pushing attack. He also had good corner service.
The us midfield dominated that game
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Yeah, it's too bad that the one bad half they played cost them two points. Beating Iran will be tough because they are going to just park the bus and hope for a draw, and I am not sure we are going to be able to break that down.
Oh and I don't need to see Shaq Moore again.
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Yeah, it's too bad that the one bad half they played cost them two points. Beating Iran will be tough because they are going to just park the bus and hope for a draw, and I am not sure we are going to be able to break that down.
Oh and I don't need to see Shaq Moore again.
Iran needs to win. GOal difference not in their favor so a tie most likely won’t help them.
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Iran needs to win. GOal difference not in their favor so a tie most likely won’t help them.
Wouldn't they advance with a tie provided Wales doesn't beat England?
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Iran only need to win if Wales beats England.
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Is goal difference still the tie breaker ?
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Never mind - bad at math
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Adams, Turner, Ream standouts again. Musah very good. Good Dest showed up today. Substitutions confounding. Faded down the stretch. McKennie with the miss of the Cup.
Ferreira, Wright, Sargent continue to show why they were selected.
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Ferreira, Wright, Sargent continue to show why they were selected.
Wut?
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That was exactly what we wanted. Let them control possession and make them break down the defense, which they couldn't do. England had two real chances, the deflection by Zimmerman and that one palmed save (might've been offside anyway?). USA's defense has been excellent so far.
My only gripe today was waiting to sub. I like to see subs at 60. We were pushing for a goal then, so I understood waiting until 65, but England brought on Henderson and seized the momentum. By the time Aaronson and Reyna came on, our best opportunities were done.
Still, happy with the result, out-executing England, and just needing to win to advance, as it should be.
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We just need to score a couple goals against Iran. Shouldn’t be an issue right ?!
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That was exactly what we wanted. Let them control possession and make them break down the defense, which they couldn't do. England had two real chances, the deflection by Zimmerman and that one palmed save (might've been offside anyway?). USA's defense has been excellent so far.
My only gripe today was waiting to sub. I like to see subs at 60. We were pushing for a goal then, so I understood waiting until 65, but England brought on Henderson and seized the momentum. By the time Aaronson and Reyna came on, our best opportunities were done.
Still, happy with the result, out-executing England, and just needing to win to advance, as it should be.
Waiting so long to bring on aaronson and Reyna was killer. It’s hard for subs to make an impact and especially difficult in ten minutes or so.
Juventus owe Mckennie a debt of gratitude. His transfer value for the highly probable sale in the January window is going up big time after this game.
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That was exactly what we wanted. Let them control possession and make them break down the defense, which they couldn't do. England had two real chances, the deflection by Zimmerman and that one palmed save (might've been offside anyway?). USA's defense has been excellent so far.
My only gripe today was waiting to sub. I like to see subs at 60. We were pushing for a goal then, so I understood waiting until 65, but England brought on Henderson and seized the momentum. By the time Aaronson and Reyna came on, our best opportunities were done.
Still, happy with the result, out-executing England, and just needing to win to advance, as it should be.
Especially with 5 subs plus a concussion sub, no reason to wait as long at Gregg did.
We ended up only using 4 subs.
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Especially with 5 subs plus a concussion sub, no reason to wait as long at Gregg did.
We ended up only using 4 subs.
I have tended to buy into the idea that GGG preplans his subs and doesn't waver from that (outside of injury)
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GGG definitely got a outmanaged a bit on the timing of the subs. England's only real advantage during the second half was when they got their subs into the run of play earlier. The one I was yelling at the tv about was to take Weah off earlier - he had stopped being effective for awhile before the Reyna sub.
Overall though, it was pretty enjoyable to watch the US attack a quality team from the midfield. A nice change from World Cups past when they would go over their own midfield, and just try to find their one competent striker on the counter.
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https://twitter.com/fb_bentley/status/1596369981301727232?s=42&t=E_a_kQ7TkiXWatauNOE2hQ
If true, fire able offense
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https://twitter.com/fb_bentley/status/1596369981301727232?s=42&t=E_a_kQ7TkiXWatauNOE2hQ
If true, fire able offense
Very curious. Honestly, my hope is that Gregg just does enough to get us to the Round of 16, I'll take any result after that and would just like to see him move on after the Cup. He can caretake while they find a replacement, but I don't want him to be the answer for 2026. He's taken us as far as I think he can.
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I find it to be more than plausible this is true. I’m guessing wynalda’s source is gios dad.
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I am sure Reyna is healthy enough to play, but not sure I would want him on the field for more than 15 minutes. Weah brings more value and the offense tends to bog down when Reyna has the ball.
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I am sure Reyna is healthy enough to play, but not sure I would want him on the field for more than 15 minutes. Weah brings more value and the offense tends to bog down when Reyna has the ball.
I do not understand. Reyna has played 10 minutes in this Cup, in a situation where the US clearly parked the bus to save a point, and you think he's involved in bogging things down?
Reyna is the most talented guy in the program (Pulisic most accomplished; Adams most technical; Aaronson most adored) and there is zero reason outside of manager ego in freezing him out. It dents the ambition presently but Reyna will be around for the next 15 whilst this dude is coaching St Loo FC in two years.
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I am sure Reyna is healthy enough to play, but not sure I would want him on the field for more than 15 minutes. Weah brings more value and the offense tends to bog down when Reyna has the ball.
1000% disagree. He’s way more valuable than this.
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I do not understand. Reyna has played 10 minutes in this Cup, in a situation where the US clearly parked the bus to save a point, and you think he's involved in bogging things down?
Reyna is the most talented guy in the program (Pulisic most accomplished; Adams most technical; Aaronson most adored) and there is zero reason outside of manager ego in freezing him out. It dents the ambition presently but Reyna will be around for the next 15 whilst this dude is coaching St Loo FC in two years.
No greater honor in sport.
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I do not understand. Reyna has played 10 minutes in this Cup, in a situation where the US clearly parked the bus to save a point, and you think he's involved in bogging things down?
Reyna is the most talented guy in the program (Pulisic most accomplished; Adams most technical; Aaronson most adored) and there is zero reason outside of manager ego in freezing him out. It dents the ambition presently but Reyna will be around for the next 15 whilst this dude is coaching St Loo FC in two years.
I’m not talking about during the World Cup. In his other games with the USMNT he hasn’t made good runs, comes back for the ball to be the creative playmaker (which is understandable) and largely comes up short.
I think he’s going to be very good in 2026. I don’t think he’s there yet. If they are willing to put Weah in the middle I’d be fine with Reyna on the right, but they haven’t shown a willingness to do that. So it comes down to 2/3 of Pulisic, Weah and Reyna. The first two are superior players right now, in my opinion.
And I am not a GG fan but his plan against England was great and same in the first half against Wales. He’s coached three damn good halves and one terrible half. If he comes up with a good plan and gets three points vs Iran, he has accomplished as much as Bradley and Jurgen. If he doesn’t, this cycle was a disappointment or failure depending on your expectations.
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I find it to be more than plausible this is true. I’m guessing wynalda’s source is gios dad.
I don't doubt it might be true, and the source seems pretty clear. But you aren't firing GGG in the middle of the World Cup where every game is win or go home. At this point, you just let him finish the tournament then start looking for the 2026 manager you hope can lift the cup on home soil. Unlikely as that may be, that's been the goal since we were awarded the 1994 Cup back in '88.
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I don't doubt it might be true, and the source seems pretty clear. But you aren't firing GGG in the middle of the World Cup where every game is win or go home. At this point, you just let him finish the tournament then start looking for the 2026 manager you hope can lift the cup on home soil. Unlikely as that may be, that's been the goal since we were awarded the 1994 Cup back in '88.
Who said anything about firing him mid WC?
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Who said anything about firing him mid WC?
I'm just saying it really doesn't matter. He should be caretaker by January and replaced by March or April at the latest anyway. So fireable offense is pretty irrelevant since this should be it for him regardless of result.
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I'm just saying it really doesn't matter. He should be caretaker by January and replaced by March or April at the latest anyway. So fireable offense is pretty irrelevant since this should be it for him regardless of result.
Do you really think that's going to happen?
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If we're going to speculate about coaching after this world cup....
Give Jesse Marsch whatever he wants
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Do you really think that's going to happen?
It should, regardless of result. That includes winning the World Cup. I firmly believe one cycle is enough for anyone. Bruce was great in 2002, then flamed out in 2006. Bradley did well in 2010, didn't make it to 2014. Klinsmann surprised in 2014, failed in the 2018 cycle.
When you take a team for four years, you get to rely on those players. There should be completely fresh eyes after every World Cup cycle so the manager doesn't get overly reliant on players who aren't necessarily going to be as good 4 years later than they were when they gave you that first WC run.
It will depend on who makes the call. There's a new Secretary General as of September and it's entirely possible he makes his own decision. While it hasn't been what USA has done in the past, the continued failures of managers in second terms is obvious and needs to end.
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It should, regardless of result. That includes winning the World Cup. I firmly believe one cycle is enough for anyone. Bruce was great in 2002, then flamed out in 2006. Bradley did well in 2010, didn't make it to 2014. Klinsmann surprised in 2014, failed in the 2018 cycle.
When you take a team for four years, you get to rely on those players. There should be completely fresh eyes after every World Cup cycle so the manager doesn't get overly reliant on players who aren't necessarily going to be as good 4 years later than they were when they gave you that first WC run.
It will depend on who makes the call. There's a new Secretary General as of September and it's entirely possible he makes his own decision. While it hasn't been what USA has done in the past, the continued failures of managers in second terms is obvious and needs to end.
I think you’re over estimating the sensibility of USSF
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It should, regardless of result. That includes winning the World Cup. I firmly believe one cycle is enough for anyone. Bruce was great in 2002, then flamed out in 2006. Bradley did well in 2010, didn't make it to 2014. Klinsmann surprised in 2014, failed in the 2018 cycle.
When you take a team for four years, you get to rely on those players. There should be completely fresh eyes after every World Cup cycle so the manager doesn't get overly reliant on players who aren't necessarily going to be as good 4 years later than they were when they gave you that first WC run.
It will depend on who makes the call. There's a new Secretary General as of September and it's entirely possible he makes his own decision. While it hasn't been what USA has done in the past, the continued failures of managers in second terms is obvious and needs to end.
I think this makes a lot of sense.
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It should, regardless of result. That includes winning the World Cup. I firmly believe one cycle is enough for anyone. Bruce was great in 2002, then flamed out in 2006. Bradley did well in 2010, didn't make it to 2014. Klinsmann surprised in 2014, failed in the 2018 cycle.
When you take a team for four years, you get to rely on those players. There should be completely fresh eyes after every World Cup cycle so the manager doesn't get overly reliant on players who aren't necessarily going to be as good 4 years later than they were when they gave you that first WC run.
It will depend on who makes the call. There's a new Secretary General as of September and it's entirely possible he makes his own decision. While it hasn't been what USA has done in the past, the continued failures of managers in second terms is obvious and needs to end.
You're totally reasonable, rational and logical.
Unfortunately, ussf is not
The org is as much a "good ole boys club" as any. Plus a dash of "it's not what you've done, but who you know."
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I think you’re over estimating the sensibility of USSF
I think this makes alot of sense.
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Madness in Morocco. Subs make all the difference.
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Fun game. Wonder what EPL team Roberto Martinez will be coaching next year?
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You're totally reasonable, rational and logical.
Unfortunately, ussf is not
The org is as much a "good ole boys club" as any. Plus a dash of "it's not what you've done, but who you know."
Ehhh ... I don't say this as a defense of Berhalter, but plenty of federations have had success keeping a manager through multiple cycles. Low coached German for 15 years. Dechamps is managing his third World Cup for France. Tite is in his second with Brazil. Santos in his second with Portugal.Dalic in his second with Croatia.
Not arguing that Berhalter should be retained, but I just don't think there ought to be a hard-and-fast rule over this.
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Solid.
(https://i.redd.it/l2xb7oovwg2a1.jpg)
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Well, if Sauron paid the right people, sure.
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Interesting scenario for Spain.
They may be incentivized to let Japan win their match and win the overall group because IMO it seems to be a much easier path to advance as a runner up in that group. You will have to play the winner of Group F in the first game, but I think between Croatia, Belgium or Morocco, you probably feel good about that. But you likely avoid Brazil in the quarterfinals and instead would play someone like Portugal, Uruguay or Switzerland.
Germany would have to make up a ton of goals over Costa Rica to leap Spain completely. Since they play at the same time, perhaps see how it is going and let in a soft goal toward the end.
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Interesting scenario for Spain.
They may be incentivized to let Japan win their match and win the overall group because IMO it seems to be a much easier path to advance as a runner up in that group. You will have to play the winner of Group F in the first game, but I think between Croatia, Belgium or Morocco, you probably feel good about that. But you likely avoid Brazil in the quarterfinals and instead would play someone like Portugal, Uruguay or Switzerland.
Germany would have to make up a ton of goals over Costa Rica to leap Spain completely. Since they play at the same time, perhaps see how it is going and let in a soft goal toward the end.
This is a bit like the debate about lose early in your conference tournament if you are already sure to be in the NCAA tournament vs. build/maintain momentum and run the conf tourney table.
My take is play to win. Yea, a coach might understandably do a bit of "load management" but for Spain to "let" Japan win the group, no. Too much uncertainly in other groups to assume the chips will fall in an assured, positive way.
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I’m not talking about during the World Cup. In his other games with the USMNT he hasn’t made good runs, comes back for the ball to be the creative playmaker (which is understandable) and largely comes up short.
I think he’s going to be very good in 2026. I don’t think he’s there yet. If they are willing to put Weah in the middle I’d be fine with Reyna on the right, but they haven’t shown a willingness to do that. So it comes down to 2/3 of Pulisic, Weah and Reyna. The first two are superior players right now, in my opinion.
And I am not a GG fan but his plan against England was great and same in the first half against Wales. He’s coached three damn good halves and one terrible half. If he comes up with a good plan and gets three points vs Iran, he has accomplished as much as Bradley and Jurgen. If he doesn’t, this cycle was a disappointment or failure depending on your expectations.
The issue with this is Reyna has never played with this personnel. Famously, the US has never had a full run of Reyna, Pulisic, Adams, McKennie in the same game. So in the games you remember Reyna is playing out of position as a result or being tasked with elements that he's not equipped to provide, which is a managerial issue. He's coming up short because he's playing with second rate teammates.
Not playing your best players, when they are healthy, in the World Cup is a bizarre decision made by people who have limited vision. And, frankly, it isn't a matter of whether GGregeggge accomplishes more or the same as previous managers. But basing that on the US beating Iran(!!!) when they've been average the first two games shows we have an expectations issue.
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Not playing your best players, when they are healthy, in the World Cup is a bizarre decision made by people who have limited vision. And, frankly, it isn't a matter of whether GGregeggge accomplishes more or the same as previous managers. But basing that on the US beating Iran(!!!) when they've been average the first two games shows we have an expectations issue.
The US was nowhere near average in the England match, you may be the only person to thinks so.
Speaking of Iran, the press conference earlier today was...something.
https://twitter.com/cboehm/status/1597199260478472193?s=20&t=06UcU_2C1GF8hheDhYF7KA
Also asking Berhalter questions about inflation and the US having a warship off the coast of Iran. Just wild.
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The US was nowhere near average in the England match, you may be the only person to thinks so.
Speaking of Iran, the press conference earlier today was...something.
https://twitter.com/cboehm/status/1597199260478472193?s=20&t=06UcU_2C1GF8hheDhYF7KA
Also asking Berhalter questions about inflation and the US having a warship off the coast of Iran. Just wild.
Ggg can’t even figure out how to integrate Reyna into the team. How will he answer a complex geopolitical question lol.
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The US was nowhere near average in the England match, you may be the only person to thinks so.
Speaking of Iran, the press conference earlier today was...something.
https://twitter.com/cboehm/status/1597199260478472193?s=20&t=06UcU_2C1GF8hheDhYF7KA
Also asking Berhalter questions about inflation and the US having a warship off the coast of Iran. Just wild.
US Soccer did him or Adams no favors by pulling that stunt with the Iranian flag like they did. Completely gutless move at the exact wrong time. Zero reason to give Iran any extra motivation or reason to become a victim. Zero reason to put your own guys on the spot when you know they are going to be meeting with Iranian media today.
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The issue with this is Reyna has never played with this personnel. Famously, the US has never had a full run of Reyna, Pulisic, Adams, McKennie in the same game. So in the games you remember Reyna is playing out of position as a result or being tasked with elements that he's not equipped to provide, which is a managerial issue. He's coming up short because he's playing with second rate teammates.
Not playing your best players, when they are healthy, in the World Cup is a bizarre decision made by people who have limited vision. And, frankly, it isn't a matter of whether GGregeggge accomplishes more or the same as previous managers. But basing that on the US beating Iran(!!!) when they've been average the first two games shows we have an expectations issue.
So he should be judged differently than other US coaches because he hasn’t played your favorite player enough minutes?
I don’t care if he gets out of the group with eleven MLS players. If they win tomorrow, he did his job. If they don’t, it’s a disappointment.
Also, Iran is a pretty good side. The US should be able to get the three points they need, but Iran is favored to advance for a reason.
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US Soccer did him or Adams no favors by pulling that stunt with the Iranian flag like they did. Completely gutless move at the exact wrong time. Zero reason to give Iran any extra motivation or reason to become a victim. Zero reason to put your own guys on the spot when you know they are going to be meeting with Iranian media today.
USSF have been clowns leading up to and during the WC. I feel bad for the staff snd team having to take the arrows for their actions.
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US Soccer did him or Adams no favors by pulling that stunt with the Iranian flag like they did. Completely gutless move at the exact wrong time. Zero reason to give Iran any extra motivation or reason to become a victim. Zero reason to put your own guys on the spot when you know they are going to be meeting with Iranian media today.
Yea it was incredibly dumb, as USSF normally is. Adams handled it beautifully. Lucky to have him as a representative for the squad.
Hilarious stone throwing from glass houses from the Iran government media shills though. They were doing it to Ream and Zimmerman in a different press conference too. Asking where they were when Iran beat the US in 1998.
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US Soccer did him or Adams no favors by pulling that stunt with the Iranian flag like they did. Completely gutless move at the exact wrong time. Zero reason to give Iran any extra motivation or reason to become a victim. Zero reason to put your own guys on the spot when you know they are going to be meeting with Iranian media today.
We may have upset some of the Iranian Federation, but I'm not sure it will provide further motivation to the players. They protested their own country by refusing to sing their own anthem in the opener, and reportedly only sang before their second match because of threats from the Iranian government. Who knows what motivations will work, but I'm not convinced this is a big deal beyond the headlines.
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https://twitter.com/TaylorTwellman/status/1597421314641653760?t=cLxTxNxWxg1SyvSpbbkhYA&s=19
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The US was nowhere near average in the England match, you may be the only person to thinks so.
Speaking of Iran, the press conference earlier today was...something.
https://twitter.com/cboehm/status/1597199260478472193?s=20&t=06UcU_2C1GF8hheDhYF7KA
Also asking Berhalter questions about inflation and the US having a warship off the coast of Iran. Just wild.
40% of the ball, one shot on target, missing an open net, playing an opposition whose CB was the most dangerous attacker on the field is average.
I understand people lost their minds on England because of the Iran match but England has been downright bleh for 15 months. I was in the stadium when the US did the same thing to England in 2010 and the reaction at the time, rightly, was how poor must England have been to be drawn by that team.
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So he should be judged differently than other US coaches because he hasn’t played your favorite player enough minutes?
I don’t care if he gets out of the group with eleven MLS players. If they win tomorrow, he did his job. If they don’t, it’s a disappointment.
Also, Iran is a pretty good side. The US should be able to get the three points they need, but Iran is favored to advance for a reason.
Reyna isn't my favorite player. He's the most talented guy on the roster and he's not playing. That's the issue.
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40% of the ball, one shot on target, missing an open net, playing an opposition whose CB was the most dangerous attacker on the field is average.
I understand people lost their minds on England because of the Iran match but England has been downright bleh for 15 months. I was in the stadium when the US did the same thing to England in 2010 and the reaction at the time, rightly, was how poor must England have been to be drawn by that team.
Not sure where your stats are from. US had 45% possession, 2 SOG, 10 attempts to England's 8. 7 corners to England's 3. Deciding to diminish Kane, Bellingham, and Sterling as mediocre instead of complimenting the US gameplan and defending is agenda pushing nonsense.
This England team is WAY more talented than 2010. Look at that attack outside of Rooney. Crouch, Hesky, Dafoe. Not even remotely the same. US got a fluke goal in that match and was thoroughly outplayed. That wasn't the case on Friday.
You don't like Gregggg, we get it. Neither do I. That doesn't mean you have to slight everything about this squad.
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I'm not sure how anyone could watch that game and think the US didn't perform well. They pressed well. Made Kane recieve the ball deeper than he wanted to. Kept Bellingham in check. Looked dangerous for the first hour until the legs faded.
If Pulisic's shot hits the underside of the bar and goes in, and the US wins 1-0 it would have been plenty deserved.
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Reyna isn't my favorite player. He's the most talented guy on the roster and he's not playing. That's the issue.
I disagree that he's the most talented guy on the team. But if we're in need of a goal with 30 minutes left, I hope he comes on.
Who would you start him over? Weah?
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CCV?
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CCV?
Its a surprise, but I'll take an experienced athletic CB who has made his living in rough and tumble English football against a team like Iran. I don't love Zimmerman, and after the Wales challenge, I'm not broken up about not having him in there in critical moments.
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Weah should have at least two goals by now.
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Outstanding half, Dest and Robinson have been excellent, McKennie with two great balls, Adams being Adams. Thought we’d get a second before half, I’d like to see that offsides call. Need to get one more, I feel.
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That offside is going to loom large, isn't it?
In live action, I was more worried about Dest being offside on the first goal. Obviously, after seeing the replay, that was onside.
Weah's offside was soooooooo close.
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That offside is going to loom large, isn't it?
In live action, I was more worried about Dest being offside on the first goal. Obviously, after seeing the replay, that was onside.
Weah's offside was soooooooo close.
Wales.
Off by a knee.
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I’ve been critical of Ream for years, but he’s been fantastic all cup. Positioning, composure, leadership at the back, well done thus far
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I need a cigarette.
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Whew!
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I’ve been critical of Ream for years, but he’s been fantastic all cup. Positioning, composure, leadership at the back, well done thus far
Same.
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Well done Ream, well done midfield, they were gassed
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The Netherlands on Saturday.
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Here's why I struggle to enjoy watching soccer. To me it looks like there are opportunities to take a shot, and of course not everything is going to be on target or get past a goalie, especially when you're further out. But to me that seems like a better scoring opportunity than passing it around between 3 offensive players and about 5 defenders and trying to sneak something through 15 humans that gets past the goalie.
And then you see the end of this game and the one time you DON'T want to go and score, when you could dribble into a corner, pass to a streaking teammate, etc., you go and try to score, giving Iran a chance to tie it? Just seemed dumb. And then rather than trying to make a play the Iranian player just takes a dive hoping for a whistle that doesn't come and it ends the game. It's like watching Harden and Embiid play basketball. They're not actually trying to score, they're just trying to bate the ref into a whistle so they can go score at the line/a PK.
Seems like the Netherlands are the trendy pick to win it all.
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I’m haven’t seen anyone pick the Dutch to win it all. We’ve got a better chance Saturday than we did in 2014 against Belgium.
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F the Dutch.
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The US to advance at + odds is a good bet. I like our chances as long as we don’t score too early and go into a shell. This isn’t Holland of 2010 or 2014. Doable.
If Argentina fails to win their group tomorrow, the path to the semis is about as open as you could ask.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zgp-0UxeBK0
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zgp-0UxeBK0
Beat me to it but came here to post that lol
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Does anyone know or recall if Acosta had any meaningful offers or opportunities to play in Europe that he turned down? Another one of those young stars playing for the USMNT at a young age who then coasted in MLS
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I’m haven’t seen anyone pick the Dutch to win it all. We’ve got a better chance Saturday than we did in 2014 against Belgium.
I like England and the Netherlands as the "just below the clear favorites" (France, Argentina, Brazil) to potentially pull it off.
Ok, I didn't exactly pick them, but I do think they have the potential to win it all.
And I think the US has the potential to knock the Netherlands out. Go USA!
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Musah and Ream very good. Dest and Robinson very very good in the 1st and both quite poor in the 2nd. Carter-Vickers didn't have much to do but he blew his cover in the 57th and fouled in the box in the 95th. 4/10. McKennie ball outrageous. Dest header exquisite.
Substitutions continue to confound. One forced but Wright and Moore were 0/10 awful. Total net negatives. Acosta brought on to win and hold the ball, only problem was he couldn't win the ball.
Pattern is clear, they're 2004 Greece. No one up top, rely on a moment of magic, retreat to a shell with little ambition, vulnerable late at the back, hold on for dear life to whistle. But this works against poor/less expressive opposition.
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https://twitter.com/PeteBlackburn/status/1597677486812594176?t=zVzCXsgTfQ7dTSG4vNzH5Q&s=19 (https://twitter.com/PeteBlackburn/status/1597677486812594176?t=zVzCXsgTfQ7dTSG4vNzH5Q&s=19)
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Musah and Ream very good. Dest and Robinson very very good in the 1st and both quite poor in the 2nd. Carter-Vickers didn't have much to do but he blew his cover in the 57th and fouled in the box in the 95th. 4/10. McKennie ball outrageous. Dest header exquisite.
Substitutions continue to confound. One forced but Wright and Moore were 0/10 awful. Total net negatives. Acosta brought on to win and hold the ball, only problem was he couldn't win the ball.
Pattern is clear, they're 2004 Greece. No one up top, rely on a moment of magic, retreat to a shell with little ambition, vulnerable late at the back, hold on for dear life to whistle. But this works against poor/less expressive opposition.
Outside the first 15 of England, this team has easily been the better side in the first 60 min of all group matches.
After that, it's pretty bad. Is it fatigue? Tactic/strategic choice? Bad subs? Bad timing of subs? All the above?
If they could put a few in the net during that first 45-60, we'd have a drastically different impression.
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Youngest starting XI so far at the WC doesn't know how to put a team away? Shocking. Team that presses hard for the first 60 minutes fading down the stretch, shocking. Multiple substitutions due to injury. Iran diving to try to get a pen (never gonna be called). Outshot them 12-4. Shots on target 5-1. ExG 1.18 to .42. It was the deserved result that anyone watching that didn't have a preset agenda to be upset no matter what because Pepi didn't make the squad would be able to see.
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Youngest starting XI so far at the WC doesn't know how to put a team away? Shocking. Team that presses hard for the first 60 minutes fading down the stretch, shocking. Multiple substitutions due to injury. Iran diving to try to get a pen (never gonna be called). Outshot them 12-4. Shots on target 5-1. ExG 1.18 to .42. It was the deserved result that anyone watching that didn't have a preset agenda to be upset no matter what because Pepi didn't make the squad would be able to see.
Where you getting your xG numbers?
https://twitter.com/ESPN_BillC/status/1597731118559948800?t=rjWWnDsqhHdD4fpUR3ByhQ&s=19
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Where you getting your xG numbers?
https://twitter.com/ESPN_BillC/status/1597731118559948800?t=rjWWnDsqhHdD4fpUR3ByhQ&s=19
Used this site for a while. I like that they give their breakdown on ExG for every individual chance.
https://www.fotmob.com/match/3854564/matchfacts/iran-vs-usa
I know there are multiple different formulas out there that people use, I know it's a somewhat flawed statistic, and I know I'm obviously biased, but a .82 ExG for Iran seems very generous.
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Used this site for a while. I like that they give their breakdown on ExG for every individual chance.
https://www.fotmob.com/match/3854564/matchfacts/iran-vs-usa
I know there are multiple different formulas out there that people use, I know it's a somewhat flawed statistic, and I know I'm obviously biased, but a .82 ExG for Iran seems very generous.
Thanks.
Also, I think it's fair to have critiques of the players/squad/manager that have nothing to do with bias/Pepi
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https://twitter.com/DraftKings/status/1597677467145490432?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1597677467145490432%7Ctwgr%5Eb9cf37b7d416a33ef792bc990b2e543014b1e2dc%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.huffpost.com%2Fentry%2Fworld-cup-soccer-christian-pulisic-hospital_n_63874dc7e4b06ef4a54a734f
Sometimes, I freaking love watching futbol on telemundo.
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Thanks.
Also, I think it's fair to have critiques of the players/squad/manager that have nothing to do with bias/Pepi
He's been overwhelmingly negative and pessimistic about everything related to the USMNT for a month or more. I don't like Gregggg but I can appreciate good play and results and success. Not every success has to be tempered with "yeah but the opponent sucks/this guy sucked/anyone excited is delusion or has bad expectations"
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https://twitter.com/DraftKings/status/1597677467145490432?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1597677467145490432%7Ctwgr%5Eb9cf37b7d416a33ef792bc990b2e543014b1e2dc%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.huffpost.com%2Fentry%2Fworld-cup-soccer-christian-pulisic-hospital_n_63874dc7e4b06ef4a54a734f
Sometimes, I freaking love watching futbol on telemundo.
Watching Conembol or Liga MX on the Spanish language broadcast is awesome.
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Thanks.
Also, I think it's fair to have critiques of the players/squad/manager that have nothing to do with bias/Pepi
Wags summed it up well.
Just look to the first post in the thread to find my initial thoughts about how the team would do. They've exceeded my expectations both in results as well as level of play. It's hard to see this experience as a negative unless you're looking to do so. Big picture wise, I think it has gone about as well as possible, get our extremely youthful team big game, and knockout game, experience. Long term that is going to be great in 2026 when our "golden generation" is all in their prime and we're hosting.
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The criticisms of berhalter are legitimate. We were so poor closing the wales and Iran game. He’s been very late reacting to the flow of the game and getting the correct subs in to maintain possession and his high press. Both of those games, I questioned the like for like switch of wright for Sargent.
For me Sargent has been immense this tournament. Not great service, hasn’t made the most of his couple half chances but his work rate, positioning and hold up play has been incredible. It’s no surprise that when haji comes on, we look lost up front and lose a bunch of possession. I’m surprised ferrera hasn’t played instead of wright. Jesus is better on the ball and has a better work rate which helps kill off games.
Shaq Moore has been absolutely abysmal in his two cameos. He has no business getting on the field anymore this tournament. Horrible in possession and constantly out of position. I thought Yedlin was ok against wales, but still, what does scally need to do to get on the field? He plays in a possession based system at monchengladbach, while playing/playing well every week.
Reyna is the obvious sub who can help with possession but it’s very clear ggg doesn’t see any value in him.
Ggg comes out with an excellent game plan but struggles with the appropriate in game tactical decisions in the second half.
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Shaq Moore has been absolutely abysmal in his two cameos. He has no business getting on the field anymore this tournament. Horrible in possession and constantly out of position. I thought Yedlin was ok against wales, but still, what does scally need to do to get on the field? He plays in a possession based system at monchengladbach, while playing/playing well every week.
The Shaq Moore experiment continues to be baffling. He's been AWFUL. Dempsey roasted him after the match
"Shaq Moore, I saw him put his hand up saying "my bad" than actual passes completed"
But I even thought his roster inclusion didn't even make sense. In 3 years he's went from spot La Liga starts...to Spanish Segunda Division...to MLS. And he's going to what should be his prime. Doesn't say much to deflect from the Gregggg MLS favoritism critique. But good lord he better be stapled to the bench on Saturday.
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If these results hold, pretty much a dream quadrant for the US.
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For all the criticism or concern about the US, Mexico absolutely STINKS right now
EDIT: They score 10 min after I post this, 3 min into the second half ;D
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High drama building over goal differentials.
Mexico close to a miracle.
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So as it stands Poland because of fewer yellows? There another tiebreaker I'm missing?
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High drama building over goal differentials.
Mexico close to a miracle.
If the two, 2-0 results stand, I believe Poland will go through based on the seventh tiebreaker - more fair play points. (They have had less yellow cards.)
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Crazy, but awesome.
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https://twitter.com/rodger/status/1598053466722766853?s=20&t=UyBqedLyhsKIGjYGFiiyHQ
Rodger Sherman
@rodger
·
50s
the good news about choosing who advances into the Round of 16 based on who has fewer yellow cards is that everybody agrees FIFA refs do an excellent job and make smart, accurate decisions every time
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Incredible drama, had advancement come down to drawing straws that would have been crazy (and awful). Argentina is clinical and kept their foot on the gas, big advantage to avoid France. What a day of games
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Polish goalkeeper was terrific. That being said, Poland was manhandled by Argentina. Not sure if they were playing for a tie. An amazing lack of offensive penetration. Didn’t even seem to be trying.
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Manhandled 2-0. Smh
I don’t get soccer, but I did purchase FIFA 23 for PS5 on Cyber Monday.
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Manhandled 2-0. Smh
I don’t get soccer, but I did purchase FIFA 23 for PS5 on Cyber Monday.
NHL, Madden, 2K, Tiger Woods, and some tennis game here. Will probably only play NHL and Tiger Woods. If you want some free NHL wins let me know, I'm horrendous and just try to fight people.
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NHL, Madden, 2K, Tiger Woods, and some tennis game here. Will probably only play NHL and Tiger Woods. If you want some free NHL wins let me know, I'm horrendous and just try to fight people.
I also bought Chel on Monday but it’s not arriving until this weekend. I’d play tho.
I did get PGA but have not played it yet. Madden, The Show & nba 2K in the rotation now, along with the occasional Fortnite session
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I also bought Chel on Monday but it’s not arriving until this weekend. I’d play tho.
I did get PGA but have not played it yet. Madden, The Show & nba 2K in the rotation now, along with the occasional Fortnite session
Sorry I don't know why I was thinking NHL when you said FIFA. I have FIFA 22. Don't like soccer or hockey but find them to be the most fun video games to play.
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Canada has gone from being a trendy pick to get out of the group to being Qataresque. They are probably going to need a more experienced manager to be ready for 2026.
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Canada has gone from being a trendy pick to get out of the group to being Qataresque. They are probably going to need a more experienced manager to be ready for 2026.
Thats funny cause Donovan on the Belgium broadcast said Canada was "going home with their heads held high". Which is amusing to me cause I think everything after the first half against Belgium was a massive disappointment.
And I agree about the manager. Kind of crazy that a national team with a ton of young and super exciting talent goes with a manager with no male coaching experience, much less top level experience. And its not like he's a Canadian mainstay or former player.
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Heartbreak for Belgium. Lukaku could have had three, world class striker in tears. Morocco are through, what a WC!
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Worst Golden Generation Ever.
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Heartbreak for Belgium. Lukaku could have had three, world class striker in tears. Morocco are through, what a WC!
I really like Lukaku, he’s from the same hometown as my Belgian reps, he went to primary school with their kids. My god that’s soul crushing.
Related, I was never a huge fan of him as a player, but I have a lot of respect for Thierry Henry’s coaching journey. He’s failed at Monaco and CF Montreal, but instead of falling back on his cushy commentator gig, he went right back to the Belgian national team where he was before Monaco
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What is going on right now!
Edit: Of course Germany goes and gets an immediate equalizer.
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The Telemundo calls on these goals are absolutely the best.
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Cmon Germany, be cool. You're screwed anyway.
VOICEOVER EDIT: But they would not, in fact, be cool.
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Interesting scenario for Spain.
They may be incentivized to let Japan win their match and win the overall group because IMO it seems to be a much easier path to advance as a runner up in that group. You will have to play the winner of Group F in the first game, but I think between Croatia, Belgium or Morocco, you probably feel good about that. But you likely avoid Brazil in the quarterfinals and instead would play someone like Portugal, Uruguay or Switzerland.
Ahem.
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If not for Morocco, Japan has to be the most surprising team in the WC this year. Wins against Spain and Germany to take the group is just impressive. And hilarious that they lost to Costa Rica who gave up 11 goals in their other 2 matches.
Interesting too that this Japan team really doesn't have a star. Nagatomo and Yoshida are stalwarts who have played at a high level for years, Minamino shows flashes of brilliance, but they are lacking a Kagawa or Honda or Okazaki who were major difference makes in Japan squads of the past. But thats 3 of 4 cups that they made the knockouts, so kudos to them.
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Ahem.
I see the ESPN headline (https://www.espn.com/soccer/report?gameId=633828) reads, "Japan stun Spain 2-1 as both teams reach World Cup round of 16".
I think you may very well be correct that Spain probably wasn't all that stunned.
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I see the ESPN headline (https://www.espn.com/soccer/report?gameId=633828) reads, "Japan stun Spain 2-1 as both teams reach World Cup round of 16".
I think you may very well be correct that Spain probably wasn't all that stunned.
Strategy
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Strategy
Absolutely. The goal is to win the tournament.
Some assorted stats from the match:
- Spain took the lead at 11'
- Spain held its lead through the first half
- Japan scored two goals 142 seconds apart at 48' and 51' and then got shut out the rest of the game
- Japan had three shots on target -- two went in
- Spain possessed the ball for 83% of the game
Yeah...Spain totally threw that match.
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Ahem.
If your shoulder is out of joint from patting yourself on the back, I can recommend someone.
But, when you wrote the original post, I did think it was spot on - even though that is the kind of thing that coaches say they would never do..
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The US has made the knockout round more times in the last 2 world cups than Italy and Germany combined
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https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/30/football/us-women-soccer-pay-deal-qatar-world-cup-spt-intl/index.html
Now will the NBA and WNBA do the same?
https://thegruelingtruth.com/basketball/wnba-players-want-equal-pay-do-they-deserve-it/
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https://www.cnn.com/2022/11/30/football/us-women-soccer-pay-deal-qatar-world-cup-spt-intl/index.html
Now will the NBA and WNBA do the same?
https://thegruelingtruth.com/basketball/wnba-players-want-equal-pay-do-they-deserve-it/
First of all, the headline is wrong. They don't want "equal pay." They want an equal cut of the leagues revenues as part of their CBA agreement.
Second, that article is trash.
"Until the NBA subsidized the WNBA twenty-five years ago every other attempt at a women’s pro basketball league had failed miserably. Why has it failed? That’s simply because people don’t want to watch women play basketball in the summer, hell nobody wants to watch women pro basketball at any point in the year."
The last sentence is just simply wrong. The WNBA has been growing as a television product for years, their rights deal is up in 2025 and...
"The WNBA's ratings, for instance, compare favorably to those of Major League Soccer, which just signed a landmark deal with Apple TV worth about $2.5 billion over 10 years."
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/2022/07/12/womens-sports-tv-financial-boon-coming/7810802001/
This idea that no one watches the WNBA or women's sports in general, is an out-of-touch statement that belongs well in the past. My guess when the next WNBA CBA is negotiated, their cut will be greater.
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(http://m.quickmeme.com/img/58/58242cc10f81116f81814102989ba46f96f70d69b95ef01ed3229f7c62cd184a.jpg)
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Wow, South Korea.
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They have to stick with groups of 4 in the next World Cup. Groups of three is going to take away all of this drama.
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Wow, South Korea.
https://twitter.com/bubbaprog/status/1598722730844618753?s=20&t=DGARWhzPgfIClwPeePLATA
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I love that stuff.
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I love that stuff.
My favorite so far.
https://twitter.com/NBCSportsSoccer/status/1598048844369252352?s=20&t=MoEXc13Rdx6xMolRRwbcCQ
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The kind of joy/heartbreak that can't be faked, bought, or sold. It half makes me wish I cared about any sporting event that much. It will probably take another MU final 4 or the Lions in a Super Bowl to make me cry.
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My favorite so far.
https://twitter.com/NBCSportsSoccer/status/1598048844369252352?s=20&t=MoEXc13Rdx6xMolRRwbcCQ
Everyone loves the "GOOOOOAAAALLLLL" call, but I personally love the color guy just rapidly rambling in wonder in the background of that, and other similar Spanish calls
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I've never seen a player more okay with getting a red.
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Yes. And it looked like the Swiss might actually have to go to war at the end. Very chippy.
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I've never seen a player more okay with getting a red.
94th minute and tournament is over. I wouldn’t care either
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94th minute and tournament is over. I wouldn’t care either
Except it wasn't yet. Would have been extremely unlikely, but they were not mathematically eliminated yet.
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Except it wasn't yet. Would have been extremely unlikely, but they were not mathematically eliminated yet.
99.9% out
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99.9% out
So you admit you were wrong, glad we're on the same page.
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So you admit you were wrong, glad we're on the same page.
I told you the sky is blue and you well actually’d me and said but it’s really Pantone 19-4052. Congrats Rovell
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I told you the sky is blue and you well actually’d me and said but it’s really Pantone 19-4052. Congrats Rovell
You're either mathematically eliminated or you're not. If you don't want to get called out for being wrong, don't be wrong.
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You're either mathematically eliminated or you're not. If you don't want to get called out for being wrong, don't be wrong.
Ok Rovell
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You're either mathematically eliminated or you're not. If you don't want to get called out for being wrong, don't be wrong.
🙄🙄🙄
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I wonder what South Korea's odds of advancing were in the 90th minute today. Good thing we can eliminate teams before the final whistle.
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I wonder what South Korea's odds of advancing were in the 90th minute today. Good thing we can eliminate teams before the final whistle.
Much greater than Cameroon’s.
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I wonder what South Korea's odds of advancing were in the 90th minute today. Good thing we can eliminate teams before the final whistle.
South Korea scored and went through. Cameroon scored and needed help. I thought you were a math whiz ?
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Point is, it's not over until it's over. Taking a 100% unnecessary red when you still have the chance to go through is an objectively bad decision.
Not knowing that they weren't eliminated is an understandable mistake. Moving the goalposts and not admitting that you were wrong is a very chico-esque move, although I guess I should consider the source.
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Point is, it's not over until it's over. Taking a 100% unnecessary red when you still have the chance to go through is an objectively bad decision.
Not knowing that they weren't eliminated is an understandable mistake. Moving the goalposts and not admitting that you were wrong is a very chico-esque move, although I guess I should consider the source.
All good points Rovell
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Dumfries and Blind love to get forward. Plenty of space behind that Dumfries can make up with speed but Blind is liability.
Weah will be key since Pulisic will be half-assed and when Aaronson replaces Pulisic this is his chance to justify his top place in the substitute pecking order.
Noppert is huge and easily reaches anything he sees. Plan should be to attack in bunches and create chaos. Touch worried about Weghorst bully ball late.
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Noppert is a lifetime lower level keeper who spent his entire career up until the last year playing against below MLS level competition. And wasn’t even a first choice club keeper until this year. His first Dutch caps were in the group stage against soft competition. He needs to face real world class pressure for the first time in his career and get his feet to the fire. Chaos and pressure I agree with totally.
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Dumfries and Blind love to get forward. Plenty of space behind that Dumfries can make up with speed but Blind is liability.
Weah will be key since Pulisic will be half-assed and when Aaronson replaces Pulisic this is his chance to justify his top place in the substitute pecking order.
Noppert is huge and easily reaches anything he sees. Plan should be to attack in bunches and create chaos. Touch worried about Weghorst bully ball late.
You’re worried about a goalie with 45 professional appearances since 2013? Not caps, but starts at club level? Of course blind and DD love to get forward. They’re wingbacks in what amounts to a 5-3-2. What concerns me is they play exactly the way ggg wants to play but with three guys at the back who can all pick a pass and are comfortable on the ball. They can dominate possession and I’m not sure we’re good enough to sit behind the ball and counter for 90 minutes.
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You’re worried about a goalie with 45 professional appearances since 2013? Not caps, but starts at club level? Of course blind and DD love to get forward. They’re wingbacks in what amounts to a 5-3-2. What concerns me is they play exactly the way ggg wants to play but with three guys at the back who can all pick a pass and are comfortable on the ball. They can dominate possession and I’m not sure we’re good enough to sit behind the ball and counter for 90 minutes.
Having said that, 2-1 USA after 90 mins !
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Sargent is unavailable in the starting 11. (ankle) He was great against Iran.
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Yeah, that looked like a decent sprain. Next man up.
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Good grief. You have to score there.
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You’re worried about a goalie with 45 professional appearances since 2013? Not caps, but starts at club level? Of course blind and DD love to get forward. They’re wingbacks in what amounts to a 5-3-2. What concerns me is they play exactly the way ggg wants to play but with three guys at the back who can all pick a pass and are comfortable on the ball. They can dominate possession and I’m not sure we’re good enough to sit behind the ball and counter for 90 minutes.
I wrote that he's huge. He is. He's 6'8" and has no problem covering everything he sees. That's why chaos is important.
Edit: Guess that 6'8" came in handy on Pulisic. Especially now down 1-0.
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Big probs.
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... and just like that....
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... and just like that....
I know nothing about ⚽️ but that missed opportunity was absolutely brutal.
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I wrote that he's huge. He is. He's 6'8" and has no problem covering everything he sees. That's why chaos is important.
Edit: Guess that 6'8" came in handy on Pulisic. Especially now down 1-0.
It’s like saying a fat guy would make a great nhl goalie. And the save had more to do with a poor finish than a 6’8 frame.
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It’s like saying a fat guy would make a great nhl goalie. And the save had more to do with a poor finish than a 6’8 frame.
100% correct.
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Ferrera needs to come off. Just dreadful
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Pulisiac is our best player, correct? He doesn't look close to 100% to me.
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That should do it. Identical.
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Ball game. And it seemed to me the USA dominated the action for 45 mins. They just could do nothing when they had chances in the zone.
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Ferrera 0 rating. Unbelievably bad performance. Missed interception leads to second goal. All while Reyna sits on the bench. Pathetic
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(https://media.tenor.com/images/d4f7a52d5c06e66d1e7f819ef713d843/tenor.gif)
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Ferreira has been bad and Pulisic is unfortunately just too compromised and hasn’t been useful.
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Ggg should be fired on the spot if Jesus steps on the field in the second half
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Ggg should be fired on the spot if Jesus steps on the field in the second half
Walking on water, curing the sick, raising the dead, and turning water into wine sounds good right now.
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Careless defending.
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It’s like saying a fat guy would make a great nhl goalie. And the save had more to do with a poor finish than a 6’8 frame.
NHL goalies are now routinely 6'2" to 6'5". A few are even taller. You think Noppert's size blocking out openings had nothing to do with Pulisic being saved?
Dismissing height as an aspect of goalkeeping, whether on ice or grass, is unwise. Especially when they have a clear look at what's coming.
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NHL goalies are now routinely 6'2" to 6'5". A few are even taller. You think Noppert's size blocking out openings had nothing to do with Pulisic being saved?
Dismissing height as an aspect of goalkeeping, whether on ice or grass, is unwise. Especially when they have a clear look at what's coming.
I think actual talent is more important than being tall.
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Pulisiac is our best player, correct? He doesn't look close to 100% to me.
Yeah, he is hurt.
Soccer is fun, you should watch more. Pick an English Premier league team and throw it on before football (american) on Sundays. It's lots of fun, but can be extremely stressful once you fall down the rabbit hole.
Oh, and to add only pick one of these EPL teams if you want to have a chance at a championship.
Chelsea
Man U
Man City
Liverpool
Tottenham
Arsenal
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Yeah, Muggsy needs another obsession.
I agree with the spirit of the post.
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Wow...that was crazy. We'll take it.
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Wow...that was crazy. We'll take it.
Chaos is the way to beat Noppert. Someone wrote that.
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It isn't dull.
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Chaos is the way to beat Noppert. Someone wrote that.
Maybe he would’ve saved it if he was taller
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Yeah, he is hurt.
Soccer is fun, you should watch more. Pick an English Premier league team and throw it on before football (american) on Sundays. It's lots of fun, but can be extremely stressful once you fall down the rabbit hole.
Oh, and to add only pick one of these EPL teams if you want to have a chance at a championship.
Chelsea
Man U
Man City
Liverpool
Tottenham
Arsenal
Sunderland till I die. 😉
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That sucked.
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Careless defending.
Bump
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Bump
First two were careless. Third was committing numbers forward and getting hit on the counter.
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Sunderland till I die. 😉
How does one actually enjoy watching a team in EFL if you don't live in England?
Also, yuck.
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Bump
Bump the bump.
Back door wide open all night. Exact opposite of what happened in the group. Robinson had zero idea anyone was behind him. No help.
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Losing your man at the back post, missing a runner, all individual mistakes that are fixable with experience and a better coach. The talent is there, the future is bright. 2026, anything less than a quarterfinal is a disappointment.
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Worst TV Comment: "2026 IS RIGHT AROUND THE CORNER."
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My tower912-like comment.
1. All three goals I was screaming at the TV, "There's a Dutch player open for a pass and shot. Need to get in front of him!". Simple geometry.
2. Needed the first half play to look like the second half.
3. This is a young fun exciting team. They will learn from this. I can't wait to see the growth and it should be a fun future.
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I mentioned to some friends before the match that it would come down to our fullbacks. What I meant was making things happen going forward not forgetting how to defend. This one stings because while the Dutch are a better side, we did not give it our all.
It seemed like the Dutch had two extra players, their defensive shape was extraordinary and their counter attacks were clinical.
I thought Gio struggled and didn’t give it his all. He was slow, disinterested, and checked out. I did think GGG should bring in forwards (I didn’t realize Sargent was unavailable) and move Reyna back. It seemed to give him some life, but in the end he put out a young player’s effort. Aaronson, on the other hand, immediately made a difference the second he was subbed on. Work rate, bravery, risk taking, strength. Yeah, Aaronson has what it takes.
Wanted a win, thought we could pull it out before the game, what I really wanted was our best effort. We did not deliver.
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Reyna was fine. 6/10. Perhaps if he wasn't played out of position for 23 minutes he'd have been more noticeable. Going false 9 is a choice. Putting Reyna in that spot and not Weah is a choice no manager outside of Berhalter would make. Otherwise, the roster makeup left limited options.
van Gaal ran rings around Berhalter. To be expected. Adjustments came late. To be expected. Awful defending making youth soccer level mistakes was not to be expected.
Clean house and elevate expectations from the top to the bottom.
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Reyna was fine. 6/10. Perhaps if he wasn't played out of position for 23 minutes he'd have been more noticeable. Going false 9 is a choice. Putting Reyna in that spot and not Weah is a choice no manager outside of Berhalter would make. Otherwise, the roster makeup left limited options.
van Gaal ran rings around Berhalter. To be expected. Adjustments came late. To be expected. Awful defending making youth soccer level mistakes was not to be expected.
Clean house and elevate expectations from the top to the bottom.
I must have had way higher expectations of Reyna. Effort should be there regardless of position, and I just didn’t think he had it. 3/10 for me, but I might be a little hard when it comes to the effort piece. Four years will hopefully make a difference to the positive.
The Dutch game plan was really good, we were out coached to be sure.
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How does one actually enjoy watching a team in EFL if you don't live in England?
Also, yuck.
It was a joke...kind of. I don't really watch Sunderland, but I did enjoy Sunderland 'Til I Die on Netflix and I do check the EFL standings every couple of weeks to see how they are doing.
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Who's the 🐐?
Pele?
-
Who's the 🐐?
Pele?
Maradona
Pele
Messi
Ronaldo
Christiano Ronaldo
No order, but I put Maradona first.
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How does one actually enjoy watching a team in EFL if you don't live in England?
Also, yuck.
Most teams have streaming services for 100-150 per season. I had no issue watching Fulham three of the past five years. And some games are on ESPN+.
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Most teams have streaming services for 100-150 per season. I had no issue watching Fulham three of the past five years. And some games are on ESPN+.
Yeah, but you ignored the word, "enjoy". ;D
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Maradona
Pele
Messi
Ronaldo
Christiano Ronaldo
No order, but I put Maradona first.
5'5?? Cool.
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It sounds like things are going badly for Pele. :(
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It sounds like things are going badly for Pele. :(
He's old. Don't look up how Maradona went out.
Here is something more upbeat.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uruguay_v_Brazil_(1950_FIFA_World_Cup)
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How does one actually enjoy watching a team in EFL if you don't live in England?
Also, yuck.
Plenty of EFL on ESPN+.
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Argentina nearly gagged
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How does one actually enjoy watching a team in EFL if you don't live in England?
Also, yuck.
Yeah, I don’t get the idiots who become super fans of foreign teams from places they’ll never visit. I think my favorite was the guy at a soccer bar I was at who was watching “totting-ham and lie-chester” dressed head to toe in Hotspurs gear.
I pay attention watch occasionally in the AM and generally pull for the smaller teams in a match (e.g. Brentford, Wolves, Bournemouth) or clubs friends once played with (Forest and Leeds). Otherwise, its like choosing to be a Yankees or Lakers fan when you live in Iowa.
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Yeah, I don’t get the idiots who become super fans of foreign teams from places they’ll never visit. I think my favorite was the guy at a soccer bar I was at who was watching “totting-ham and lie-chester” dressed head to toe in Hotspurs gear.
I pay attention watch occasionally in the AM and generally pull for the smaller teams in a match (e.g. Brentford, Wolves, Bournemouth) or clubs friends once played with (Forest and Leeds). Otherwise, its like choosing to be a Yankees or Lakers fan when you live in Iowa.
And the alternative for the person from Iowa is…just not be a fan of any team?
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Yeah, I don’t get the idiots who become super fans of foreign teams from places they’ll never visit. I think my favorite was the guy at a soccer bar I was at who was watching “totting-ham and lie-chester” dressed head to toe in Hotspurs gear.
I pay attention watch occasionally in the AM and generally pull for the smaller teams in a match (e.g. Brentford, Wolves, Bournemouth) or clubs friends once played with (Forest and Leeds). Otherwise, its like choosing to be a Yankees or Lakers fan when you live in Iowa.
Or someone can be a fan of whomever they want. Who cares?
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Yeah, I don’t get the idiots who become super fans of foreign teams from places they’ll never visit. I think my favorite was the guy at a soccer bar I was at who was watching “totting-ham and lie-chester” dressed head to toe in Hotspurs gear.
I pay attention watch occasionally in the AM and generally pull for the smaller teams in a match (e.g. Brentford, Wolves, Bournemouth) or clubs friends once played with (Forest and Leeds). Otherwise, its like choosing to be a Yankees or Lakers fan when you live in Iowa.
EFL is the 2nd tier league. That'd be like ESPN+ and rooting for a AAA Baseball team in the hopes that the entire organization somehow gets called up to the majors to replace the Miami Marlins. AND EVEN THEN, they'd likely get kicked back down to AAA with absolutely no chance of ever winning the EPL.
That's the point I was making.
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I’m a Sheffield Wednesday supporter, been since the early 90s when the Prem formed (now in League 1). I still search for the few games that are broadcast and soak it all in 🤷♂️
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I’m a Sheffield Wednesday supporter, been since the early 90s when the Prem formed (now in League 1). I still search for the few games that are broadcast and soak it all in 🤷♂️
Nope - fake fan. How many players on the team are you even friends with ?
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EFL is the 2nd tier league. That'd be like ESPN+ and rooting for a AAA Baseball team in the hopes that the entire organization somehow gets called up to the majors to replace the Miami Marlins. AND EVEN THEN, they'd likely get kicked back down to AAA with absolutely no chance of ever winning the EPL.
That's the point I was making.
Don’t tell that to Manchester city fans. Or Leicester fans. Or Leeds fans. Etc
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Fandom is not rational. See: scoop. Let people root for the teams they want.
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Nope - fake fan. How many players on the team are you even friends with ?
Damn, you’re absolutely right, my fandom has all been a mirage. I feel gutted and a fraud. Go U17 youth soccer team!
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Damn, you’re absolutely right, my fandom has all been a mirage. I feel gutted and a fraud. Go U17 Midwest youth soccer team!
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panda was mocking Hoyle, not you.
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panda was mocking Hoyle, not you.
Oh I know, I found it funny and well done. I too was mocking our Billy.
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Let's assume gregggg leaves.
Who's your shortlist?
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Chico. On any short list.
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Oh I know, I found it funny and well done. I too was mocking our Billy.
Phew.
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Yeah, he is hurt.
Soccer is fun, you should watch more. Pick an English Premier league team and throw it on before football (american) on Sundays. It's lots of fun, but can be extremely stressful once you fall down the rabbit hole.
Oh, and to add only pick one of these EPL teams if you want to have a chance at a championship.
Chelsea
Man U
Man City
Liverpool
Tottenham
Arsenal
Soccer is also fun at many other levels too. It’s not always about the best player or the best team.(Those things are great too.)
NCAA Women and Men’s College soccer is very enjoyable. NWSL, MLS, are also enjoyable. Other leagues in various countries, that’s fun too.
Youth soccer? You don’t have to be an MLS Academy boys player, or ECNL girls player etc to enjoy the sport.
Soccer can be enjoyed on any level.
Often times when I run into people only interested in the top few teams in the top few leagues, these people seem to be like this with other sports too. For me, it’s bouncing sport to sport, scooping the icing off of the cake, without enjoying the entire cake itself.
People can and do like what they like whether others understand it or not.
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Chico. On any short list.
ISWYDT
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ISWYDT
;D
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England v France as a quarterfinal is almost criminal. That’s a finals matchup right there. It’s Coming Home!
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You aren't in England or France. You can't be a real fan.
Or some such nonsense.
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You aren't in England or France. You can't be a real fan.
Or some such nonsense.
I have extensive family ties to England, and spent a lot of time there. Don’t be a wanker. Ancestry is far greater than “what team is on TV and always wins.”
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I have extensive family ties to England, and spent a lot of time there. Don’t be a wanker. Ancestry is far greater than “what team is on TV and always wins.”
People can root for whomever they want for whatever reason they want. It’s just sports.
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People can root for whomever they want for whatever reason they want. It’s just sports.
I once saw Kylian Mbappe at the airport, so Go France!
Full disclosure, I was at the airport, he was on the TV at the airport.
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Richarlison has been quite good for Brasil. Should help him get a move in near future to a big club worthy of his potential.
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simpsons.stop he's already dead.gif
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Richarlison has been quite good for Brasil. Should help him get a move in near future to a big club worthy of his potential.
I see what you did there, well done.
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Richarlison has been quite good for Brasil. Should help him get a move in near future to a big club worthy of his potential.
That’s pretty funny. His game today is what I was hoping for from Reyna when he got his chance—relentless energy, relentless pressure, tracking back to defend, score when give the opportunity. I know, Reyna was out of position, but had he had effort like Richarlison, perhaps it makes a difference.
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Richarlison has been quite good for Brasil. Should help him get a move in near future to a big club worthy of his potential.
If we had anyone but Conte, I could see a 4231 with Kane at the 10 and richarlson at the 9, with Son and Deki on the wings.
Funny, as Kane would almost be playing the Dele role from the Poch era.
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If we had anyone but Conte, I could see a 4231 with Kane at the 10 and richarlson at the 9, with Son and Deki on the wings.
Funny, as Kane would almost be playing the Dele role from the Poch era.
Is that a role Kane would have any interest in? Truly no idea
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Is that a role Kane would have any interest in? Truly no idea
Not while he's chasing the goal record.
But, he has developed into such a deep playmaker from the 9 as it is, I could see it being viable to get all 4 of the attackers on the field at once if they were chasing a goal.
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Wow
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There were some truly awful pens there.
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That was great drama, what a match. Bono bigger rockstar than the other Bono today.
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Karma. Never, ever throw a match.
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All the pressure was on Spain when extra time ended. Morocco looked cool and loose, especially Hakimi. Wow, while I hate to see such a great game end on spot kicks, it was pure drama.
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Karma. Never, ever throw a match.
And never, ever wear baby blues (at least I think that was the color)
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And never, ever wear baby blues (at least I think that was the color)
Especially on international TV, aina?
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There were some truly awful pens there.
Without exaggeration, Busquets pen could be in the top 3 worst pens I’ve ever seen at a professional level. My 3 month old son likely could have saved it.
You couldn’t have written a better finish than Hakimi putting the winning penalty in. The Madrid born and bred Real product, married to a famous Spanish actress…sending the Spaniards home.
Also amusing, we see so much conversation about the diverse nature of some of the “colonizing” countries national teams. The African players for France and Belgium, the diverse makeup of the English team, the German team having a cache of Turkish immigrants in recent years as well as African roots…
Morocco is just the opposite. The stars of the Moroccan team are Dutch, Spanish, and French born and raised.
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Without exaggeration, Busquets pen could be in the top 3 worst pens I’ve ever seen at a professional level. My 3 month old son likely could have saved it.
Nope…no exaggeration there.
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I was thinking watching US matches of the tragic and cautionary tale of Matt Miazga. Even if he didn't end up in the Chelsea XI, I expected him to be successful and a part of the US backline in 2022 and 2026.
Loan spells in nearly every major league in Europe. La Liga, Eredivisie, Ligue 1, 2 years in the Championship, and a year with one of the top 2 clubs in Belgium playing under a legendary CB...all to end up in MLS, at the start of his prime, to fade out like Paul Arriola or Aaron Long, and not even as a DP
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I was thinking watching US matches of the tragic and cautionary tale of Matt Miazga. Even if he didn't end up in the Chelsea XI, I expected him to be successful and a part of the US backline in 2022 and 2026.
Loan spells in nearly every major league in Europe. La Liga, Eredivisie, Ligue 1, 2 years in the Championship, and a year with one of the top 2 clubs in Belgium playing under a legendary CB...all to end up in MLS, at the start of his prime, to fade out like Paul Arriola or Aaron Long, and not even as a DP
Massive reason why I have infinite respect for Tim Ream. Spent the vast majority of his career on yo-yo teams and on the outside lookin in for the USMNT. Revival in the last 18 months, partly due to injuries among other CB, but also has absolutely been on form. He could have easily packed it up and come state side when Dempsey and Bradley did and been a borderline star for an MLS team, but he stuck it out abroad. He has deserved every bit of praise he has gotten recently.
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Massive reason why I have infinite respect for Tim Ream. Spent the vast majority of his career on yo-yo teams and on the outside lookin in for the USMNT. Revival in the last 18 months, partly due to injuries among other CB, but also has absolutely been on form. He could have easily packed it up and come state side when Dempsey and Bradley did and been a borderline star for an MLS team, but he stuck it out abroad. He has deserved every bit of praise he has gotten recently.
Totally agree. Same with Eric Lichaj, though he never got his revival. Geoff Cameron stuck it out for years until his final seasons.
Its no wonder some of the former hot names are out of the USMNT forever, following moves back stateside. Emerson Hyndman, Brek Shea, Vassilev... I still have hope for Brooks Lennon but he'd have to go back abroad. Novakich and Daryl Dike continue to grind it out abroad and I hope that continues
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With no matches today or tomorrow, here's a historical match to ponder...
https://youtu.be/LfduUFF_i1A (https://youtu.be/LfduUFF_i1A)
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That was not an exciting half of futbol. Which, I guess, was a victory for Croatia.
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That was not an exciting half of futbol. Which, I guess, was a victory for Croatia.
Is there ever?
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That was not an exciting half of futbol. Which, I guess, was a victory for Croatia.
When I think teams will do well/surprise, that has pretty much been the kiss of death for them - I liked Belgium, Ecuador, Switzerland, and Denmark. But I also filled out a knockout bracket with some folks that had Croatia in the final. They are disruptive as hell and have enough inspiration up front to make the most of it. Then again I had them running out of gas in the final to Spain, so consider the source.
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It feels like Croatia is hanging on on defense and not really threatening on offense. Brazil seems like they think it is inevitable and getting a little frustrated.
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It feels like Croatia is hanging on on defense and not really threatening on offense. Brazil seems like they think it is inevitable and getting a little frustrated.
Similar to Spain late in the game against Morocco.
Also, Richarlison so far showing why he is where he is regarding club level (78th minute).
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Similar to Spain late in the game against Morocco.
Also, Richarlison so far showing why he is where he is regarding club level (78th minute).
Champions league ?
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And Neymar Neymars. What a goal.
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And Neymar Neymars. What a goal.
The decision to stay up after the defender's shoulder and ability to feint the keeper is quite the double.
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Holy Shiitake Mushrooms.
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Wow
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Hey, we agree!
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Croatian goaltender is a freaking god right now.
Down goes Brazil!
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This is why you love the game. This is also why you hate the game.
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Wow, how thrilling. Brazil clearly felt that they had it coming to them and the game was over with Neymar's amazing goal. Croatia's attack to score started with Modric and was a picture perfect break. There were two guys at the top of the box ready to hit the shot.
(That said, the replay sort of made it look like the shot, if it hadn't been deflected by a defender, may have been saved.)
Now, I'm torn between liking the Netherlands (I had picked them as a semi-outsider to win it all) versus really wanting Messi to go further than Ronaldo.
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Wow, how thrilling. Brazil clearly felt that they had it coming to them and the game was over with Neymar's amazing goal. Croatia's attack to score started with Modric and was a picture perfect break. There were two guys at the top of the box ready to hit the shot.
(That said, the replay sort of made it look like the shot, if it hadn't been deflected by a defender, may have been saved.)
Now, I'm torn between liking the Netherlands (I had picked them as a semi-outsider to win it all) versus really wanting Messi to go further than Ronaldo.
Billy would like to know if you've lived in either place or know players on either team. If not, the decision is made for you. You cannot root for either team.
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Not over yet.
I liked the announcer saying the Dutch forwards would be "looking for sex... sex... second balls"...
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hockey fight!
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Holy dick move!
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Holy dick move!
Should have recvd a second yellow
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Lahoz has been a joke for a while.
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wow
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Karma
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Wow
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can the fighting Muggsys recover?
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Two South American collapses today? The CIA would be proud
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Should have recvd a second yellow
If the ref blows his whistle 87 times, that supercedes a yellow.
Horrible officiating. Totally lost control.
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Knowing soccer, the Argentinian probably missed the Netherlands bench.
#ducks
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The ref is so rattled he forgot a coin to toss to start OT.
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The ref is so rattled he forgot a coin to toss to start OT.
He might not get back to his hotel room to get his airline ticket home. If might be delivered between AET periods.
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Billy would like to know if you've lived in either place or know players on either team. If not, the decision is made for you. You cannot root for either team.
Neither, but I've spent a lot of time in Schipol Airport in Amsterdam.
And I've eaten at Arby's. Is that helpful?
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Why don't teams try to score for 90 minutes like they do for the last 2 minutes down by a goal? Seems like when teams try to score, they actually score.
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Knowing soccer, the Argentinian probably missed the Netherlands bench.
#ducks
Did you see the article by Rob Lickonde in the athletic about the anti soccer sentiment in the United States?
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I consider myself a casual fan. I enjoy watching and understand what I am seeing. I don't follow any team or get into the politics. I recognize a lot of names from EPL. But I am not a junkie.
Win or go home games at the World Cup are some of my favorite sporting events. The drama, passion, exultation, heartbreak..... man.
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Among the reasons I'm for Argentina here is to avoid a Croatia-Netherlands rock fight.
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Among the reasons I'm for Argentina here is to avoid a Croatia-Netherlands rock fight.
Nah, upsets galore. Bring em on.
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Nah, upsets galore. Bring em on.
I'm usually all-in there with you. Can't imagine anyone not rooting for Morocco tomorrow. But I think semifinals can tend to be conservative and uninspiring anyway, so watching the Dutch and the Croats sit between the twenties sounds no fun. Plus Nigel Powers was right.
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Nice.
I was not rooting for the Dutch until that jerk move by Argentina.
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Croatia offering up their goalie to the highest bidder right now.
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Nice.
I was not rooting for the Dutch until that jerk move by Argentina.
What happened?
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What happened?
https://twitter.com/SickosCommittee/status/1601319053712592896?s=20&t=o7gL80fKg2cpB--tayYcug
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https://twitter.com/SickosCommittee/status/1601319053712592896?s=20&t=o7gL80fKg2cpB--tayYcug
WTF? He wasn't thrown out?
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https://twitter.com/SickosCommittee/status/1601319053712592896?s=20&t=o7gL80fKg2cpB--tayYcug
LOL that rules.
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WTF? He wasn't thrown out?
Why should he have been?
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Why should he have been?
I dunno. Can you just kick a ball at the bench?
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Why should he have been?
Second yellow.
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Second yellow.
Argument could also be made for violent conduct too.
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I dunno. Can you just kick a ball at the bench?
He should have had 2 yellows, one for the foul, and one for kicking the ball at the bench. Virgil should have had a yellow there for leveling the guy.
This game should have probably ended 9v9 with reds.
2 yellows gets you kicked out, muggs.
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17 yellow cards for the match. Nobody received 2.
Messi talking smack to the old men in suits
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He should have had 2 yellows, one for the foul, and one for kicking the ball at the bench. Virgil should have had a yellow there for leveling the guy.
This game should have probably ended 9v9 with reds.
Excuse my ignorance but does that mean he should have been shown the door?
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17 yellow cards for the match. Nobody received 2.
Messi talking smack to the old men in suits
Haven’t even thought of Edgar Davids in years. Looked…tense
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Two yellows = one red card. Red card = ejection without a replacement. Your team plays shorthanded.
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17 yellow cards for the match. Nobody received 2.
Messi talking smack to the old men in suits
2006 Battle of Nuremberg's record broken. Not quite apples to apples with extra subs and 120 vs only 90, but still very impressive.
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I dunno. Can you just kick a ball at the bench?
In any sport with a ball, if one player kicks/throws the ball at another, should they be thrown out because of that single act?
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Second yellow.
Sure. But I was asking muggsy about that individual act. Muggsy didn't know about yellow accumulation
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How many Argentinian players will have to miss the semifinal game?
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In any sport with a ball, if one player kicks/throws the ball at another, should they be thrown out because of that single act?
In this situation, it could have been either a 2nd yellow for unsporting behavior, after the first yellow for the foul or a straight red for violent conduct.
I would have gone with 2 yellows myself, but I also don't have FIFA apparently telling me not to send anyone off.
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In any sport with a ball, if one player kicks/throws the ball at another, should they be thrown out because of that single act?
I guess that's fair. It seemed beyond uncalled for though.
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I guess that's fair. It seemed beyond uncalled for though.
I think one of the subtleties here too, Muggs, is that there really isn't a way to kick a guy out in soccer without making his team play short the rest of the game. There isn't a comp to the second technical rule in basketball that ejects someone but then his team subs someone else on. If the ref had kicked him out of the game, Argentina would have had to play short, which seems a disproportionate impact on the game for the infraction. (Not disputing your read, Zig, I think by the letter of the rule you've got it exactly right.)
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In this situation, it could have been either a 2nd yellow for unsporting behavior, after the first yellow for the foul or a straight red for violent conduct.
I would have gone with 2 yellows myself, but I also don't have FIFA apparently telling me not to send anyone off.
Yes, 2nd yellow.
But I was asking about the solo act of kicking a ball at an opponent.
I guess other sports are slightly different, but I don't think it should be straight red for that individual act.
Yellow? Sure.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiW0IPrv1Ro
It's all up to how the ref interprets it. If they think there is "violent conduct" they are more than within the rules to issue a straight red. Paredes kick today was much worse that Rivaldo's flop IMO. It all comes down to game management by the ref, and he clearly had none of it today.
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17 yellow cards for the match. Nobody received 2.
Messi talking smack to the old men in suits
Messi should have gotten another yellow for the blatant dives he took…
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Messi should have gotten about her yellow for the blatant dives he took…
or the handball in the 55th minute
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Yes, 2nd yellow.
But I was asking about the solo act of kicking a ball at an opponent.
I guess other sports are slightly different, but I don't think it should be straight red for that individual act.
Yellow? Sure.
It wasn't kicking at an opponent. He blasted it at the bench. Big difference.
Could have hit a coach, trainer or someone else not expecting a ball to be blasted at them on the bench after the whistle. Thus, the VC interpretation.
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I think one of the subtleties here too, Muggs, is that there really isn't a way to kick a guy out in soccer without making his team play short the rest of the game. There isn't a comp to the second technical rule in basketball that ejects someone but then his team subs someone else on. If the ref had kicked him out of the game, Argentina would have had to play short, which seems a disproportionate impact on the game for the infraction. (Not disputing your read, Zig, I think by the letter of the rule you've got it exactly right.)
Okay. Thx for the explanation. All I really know about soccer is that there's a pretty high diminutive success rate. :)
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I'm usually all-in there with you. Can't imagine anyone not rooting for Morocco tomorrow. But I think semifinals can tend to be conservative and uninspiring anyway, so watching the Dutch and the Croats sit between the twenties sounds no fun. Plus Nigel Powers was right.
My friends in Belgium definitely aren’t. There have been destructive celebrations by Moroccan supporters, coordinated on FB beforehand, following every win. They planned it at a big park in Antwerp leading up to the Spain match.
I really like the Moroccan team and will pull for them, but I get it
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Grant Wahl dead? Wtf?
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Grant Wahl dead? Wtf?
Terrible news, and another potential stain on this World Cup.
@jacksettleman: Absolutely bone chilling stuff
Soccer journalist Grant Wahl who was kicked out of a stadium in QATAR for this shirt has reportedly collapsed and passed away during the Argentina game today
His brother says on Instagram that Grant was fully healthy & believes there’s foul play https://twitter.com/jacksettleman/status/1601397864051396613/video/1
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This Grant Wahl news, I both can’t believe it and 100% can believe it. Holy $hit.
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Awful news.
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Need an autopsy done SUPER quick. And not by the qataris
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Let’s bomb the unnatural carnal knowledge out of Qatar. It’s the only reasonable response.
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Need an autopsy done SUPER quick. And not by the qataris
Yeah, I was thinking the cluster eff that has to happen now to get his body out of there, and who you can trust. I feel so hurt for his family and friends right now.
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What the F? This is grotesque and freaking awful.
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Someone Tweeted that he wrote he was sick earlier this week, maybe with bronchitis.
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Someone Tweeted that he wrote he was sick earlier this week, maybe with bronchitis.
Someone could have poisoned him.
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Someone Tweeted that he wrote he was sick earlier this week, maybe with bronchitis.
He did a podcast the other day and said as much and talked about how he was under the weather.
Terrible news, and another potential stain on this World Cup.
@jacksettleman: Absolutely bone chilling stuff
Soccer journalist Grant Wahl who was kicked out of a stadium in QATAR for this shirt has reportedly collapsed and passed away during the Argentina game today
His brother says on Instagram that Grant was fully healthy & believes there’s foul play https://twitter.com/jacksettleman/status/1601397864051396613/video/1
To be fair, he was kicked out out of a match 1-2 weeks ago, not the match today. Just to be clear. Still suspicious, but not as immediate
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Nm
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https://twitter.com/bvbbuzz/status/1601549111748366337?s=46&t=hhpbzzSARtzmUgLSyVRDZA
Still can’t believe he couldn’t get into the team and when he did played criminally out of position.
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Someone Tweeted that he wrote he was sick earlier this week, maybe with bronchitis.
Dude was at the hospital earlier this week
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ya'd think this might take qatar out of the running for any future world cups and stuff, eyn'a? they just can't seem to play nice
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Could Morocco pull this off?
Moroccan food is criminally underrated btw.
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Again, Morocco?
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Anyone have a good Tagine recipe?
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Hold up....they kicked the Moroccan guy out of the game for that?? Seems ridiculous.
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Congrats to Morocco!
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Exciting to see a country from Africa make it to the semis, and Morocco has been solid throughout the tournament. They have fully earned the spot they are in.
Having lived and/or worked in many African countries, I've often had great discussions with friends and colleagues around this question: "who will win a World Cup trophy first, the US or a country from Africa?"
Great fun discussing the possibilities. What say all of you?
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https://twitter.com/PaulTenorio/status/1602074325057785860?t=uVoxVNKjJnEv1Ee0tcYgkg&s=19
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https://twitter.com/PaulTenorio/status/1602074325057785860?t=uVoxVNKjJnEv1Ee0tcYgkg&s=19
Clearly Gio didn’t give it his all when given the limited chance, but this is an internal issue that should have only come out through Gio if at all.
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If he’s better than guys playing above him, you play him in the World Cup. These weren’t some friendly matches.
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https://twitter.com/PaulTenorio/status/1602074325057785860?t=uVoxVNKjJnEv1Ee0tcYgkg&s=19
We have the answer which is good but it leads to other questions.
Why air the dirty laundry knowing full well you're putting a target on the player's back and doing so just three days after elimination? Does that not break the circle of trust a real "leader" would foster amongst the team?
Why did he handle McKennie (last year) and Reyna differently, regarding both public spin and punishment?
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We have the answer which is good but it leads to other questions.
Why air the dirty laundry knowing full well you're putting a target on the player's back and doing so just three days after elimination? Does that not break the circle of trust a real "leader" would foster amongst the team?
Why did he handle McKennie (last year) and Reyna differently, regarding both public spin and punishment?
Keeping him on the bench was a controversial decision. Now it looks less controversial. Maybe an attempt to make a new contract for Gregg more palatable.
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We have the answer which is good but it leads to other questions.
Why air the dirty laundry knowing full well you're putting a target on the player's back and doing so just three days after elimination? Does that not break the circle of trust a real "leader" would foster amongst the team?
Why did he handle McKennie (last year) and Reyna differently, regarding both public spin and punishment?
People griped the last three weeks about the lack of explanation for Reyna not playing. Now that it's been explained, we're going to gripe about that too?
Reyna is a professional athlete, and a coach explaining that a professional athlete isn't meeting expectations isn't airing dirty laundry. It's pretty routine.
Not sure why this puts a target on Reyna's back, or what that means.
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If the coach had said it publicly prior to the tourney, would anyone have been mollified?
It is over. The USA lost. Reyna apologized to his teammates. Nothing to do but move on.
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Imagine coming from dortmund, one of the best, if not the best youth systems/feeders into the first team in the world and going into a team with a bozo like GGG as a manager doing everything he can to show he’s the boss and slight you aka bringing on Jordan f’ing morris before him in a game where you need possession and verve going forward.
Then after the fact, usmnt lackey reporters “leak” a story that was supposed to be off the record to show what a great leader ggg is. Please spare me the sanctimony.
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Allegedly, 12 of 25 players on the roster voted to send Gio home. Sheesh
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Allegedly, 12 of 25 players on the roster voted to send Gio home. Sheesh
But was there a letter written to GGG?
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But was there a letter written to GGG?
https://twitter.com/BobbyFolk/status/1602151653951803393?t=wzI3dS10tWtdTsGzeFoLow&s=19
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Imagine coming from dortmund, one of the best, if not the best youth systems/feeders into the first team in the world and going into a team with a bozo like GGG as a manager doing everything he can to show he’s the boss and slight you aka bringing on Jordan f’ing morris before him in a game where you need possession and verve going forward.
Then after the fact, usmnt lackey reporters “leak” a story that was supposed to be off the record to show what a great leader ggg is. Please spare me the sanctimony.
Or maybe he was just being a turd.
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Allegedly, 12 of 25 players on the roster voted to send Gio home. Sheesh
This has been proven false. Multiple players were reached out to and denied it. Then it came out that it was a vote from the management/support team.
All of this reporting has been done by a pair of USMNT/MLS shills, with a very clear slant.
Or maybe he was just being a turd.
Except his reputation is pretty much sterling.
Like panda said, he is coming from a very respected development system, at a very demanding super high level club, and he's become an auto start when healthy at this young of an age. He was super close with Haaland, and now Bellingham, and has nothing negative ever reported of him with effort or attitude problems at the club level.
Additionally hes the son of a respected and very experience former US star himself.
Counter that with the other side being a manager who has received heavy criticism for biased player selections (MLS centric) over ability/skills and some very questionable lineup/substitutions during the WC.
If you need further evidence of the hatchet job, in addition to tweeting the false player vote story, McIntyre made some vague allusion to "problems" in Germany with being selfish or whatnot. When pressed, he had NOTHING to substantiate it and there were multiple responses stating stories sharing just the opposite.
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This has been proven false. Multiple players were reached out to and denied it. Then it came out that it was a vote from the management/support team.
All of this reporting has been done by a pair of USMNT/MLS shills, with a very clear slant.
What are you suggesting here? Two rogue reporters (never mind the many others who've reported similar things) have decided to trash Gio Reyna with a bunch of lies?
That somehow this getting out benefits the USMNT and MLS?
That Berhalter needed to invent a cover story for not playing Reyna, and decided the best way to do it was to tarnish the reputation of his close friend's son?
Does all that make more sense to you than taking the story at face value? Is Gio Reyna somehow the first young athlete called out by coaches and teammates for not giving his all?
Who were the multiple players who've denied the reporting on the vote? Hadn't seen that.
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What are you suggesting here? Two rogue reporters (never mind the many others who've reported similar things) have decided to trash Gio Reyna with a bunch of lies?
That somehow this getting out benefits the USMNT and MLS?
That Berhalter needed to invent a cover story for not playing Reyna, and decided the best way to do it was to tarnish the reputation of his close friend's son?
Does all that make more sense to you than taking the story at face value? Is Gio Reyna somehow the first young athlete called out by coaches and teammates for not giving his all?
Who were the multiple players who've denied the reporting on the vote? Hadn't seen that.
"Rogue" no. US Soccer/MLS loyalist and/or shills? Yes. No different than CBB reporters reporting rumors or half truths about coaches and open jobs to get them buzz or higher extensions.
It benefits US Soccer and their guy, Berhalter, cause a team that had serious problems scoring kept one of their best and most promising attacking players stapled to the bench. Meanwhile guys like Acosta were preferred subs and Jesus f'ing Ferraira got a start in a knockout match. So instead of their manager taking heat, they can say "Reyna didn't play because of character issues, look at how terrible it was".
And I don't know what Berhalter and or US Soccer was thinking. Don't forget before all of this Wynalda was saying he was told Berhalter was having Reyna talk about being injured as cover for not playing.
And again, as I said, that would be more believable if he has literally never faced that sort of allegation or criticism until suddenly it happens now with his national team manager under fire for the last few weeks and on the cusp of an extension/sacking.
https://twitter.com/RaeComm/status/1602174151741112321
And there is a big difference between "not giving it his all" and being almost sent home for being a slacking cancer and supposedly needing to apologize to everyone in order to stay.
As for the last point..
https://twitter.com/TaylorTwellman/status/1602155709201883136
https://twitter.com/TaylorTwellman/status/1602168314473680896
And if that is indeed the case, polling your support staff about a player decision like that is just another reason Berhalter should be done. Beyond the blatant nepotism that got him the job in the first place.
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People griped the last three weeks about the lack of explanation for Reyna not playing. Now that it's been explained, we're going to gripe about that too?
Reyna is a professional athlete, and a coach explaining that a professional athlete isn't meeting expectations isn't airing dirty laundry. It's pretty routine.
Not sure why this puts a target on Reyna's back, or what that means.
You have it wrong. The griping wasn't for a lack of explanation. The griping was that the excuses provided were flimsy and he invented multiple stories as to why Reyna wasn't playing that made zero sense to any person who actually follows the program.
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"Rogue" no. US Soccer/MLS loyalist and/or shills? Yes. No different than CBB reporters reporting rumors or half truths about coaches and open jobs to get them buzz or higher extensions.
It's massively different. Trashing a player's reputation is not at all similar to giving a coach hype for a job opening. It would be akin to Jeff Goodman tweeting that Caleb Love and Armando Bacot aren't trying to shield Hubert Davis from criticism for UNC's slow start.
And that's something you never see.
And I don't know what Berhalter and or US Soccer was thinking. Don't forget before all of this Wynalda was saying he was told Berhalter was having Reyna talk about being injured as cover for not playing.
Don't forget that Wynalda has since walked this back for those remarks and apologized for getting it wrong.
And again, as I said, that would be more believable if he has literally never faced that sort of allegation or criticism until suddenly it happens now with his national team manager under fire for the last few weeks and on the cusp of an extension/sacking.
And there is a big difference between "not giving it his all" and being almost sent home for being a slacking cancer and supposedly needing to apologize to everyone in order to stay.
This is like saying that because a player never got into trouble in college, he would never, ever be a problem in the pros.
It's not at all incredible to imagine a player behaving differently today than he did in the past in different circumstances. Especially when we're talking about a 20-year-old.
https://twitter.com/TaylorTwellman/status/1602155709201883136
https://twitter.com/TaylorTwellman/status/1602168314473680896
So, then, no players have come forward and said there was no vote? Just Twellman reporting what he's been told by agents, which is different than McIntyre reporting what he's been told.
OK.
But if we're taking Twellman as the more credible source here, then how do you feel about his tweeting The Athletic's story on this and calling it "Good stuff" and later tweeting that he can "fix whatever issue this is."
Seems to me that Twellman is confirming that there is, indeed, an issue.
And speaking of what actual players have said, what do you make of Yedlin's comments?
Anyhow, whether there was a player vote or not seems pretty irrelevant. There's way too much smoke and way too much solid reporting here to believe this is all some massive conspiracy by Berhalter and the USMNT, no matter how much you wish it so.
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Don't forget that Wynalda has since walked this back for those remarks and apologized for getting it wrong.
Yet he was tweeting "Apology accepted" today when people were talking about him being right all along. I don't think he walked it back as much as he misrepresented it, not that there wasn't an issue beyond "Reyna is a malcontent".
This is like saying that because a player never got into trouble in college, he would never, ever be a problem in the pros.
It's not at all incredible to imagine a player behaving differently today than he did in the past in different circumstances. Especially when we're talking about a 20-year-old.
Actually no, cause he's actively playing with BVB. That is being a pro. And this isn't his first time as a US capped player. There has never been an issue with any of his other USMNT camps. He's been great with his club team, through plenty of challenges with injury and competition (not in the past, but literally up to the WC) but now suddenly he's a low effort/attitude issue.
So, then, no players have come forward and said there was no vote? Just Twellman reporting what he's been told by agents, which is different than McIntyre reporting what he's been told.
OK.
But if we're taking Twellman as the more credible source here, then how do you feel about his tweeting The Athletic's story on this and calling it "Good stuff" and later tweeting that he can "fix whatever issue this is."
Seems to me that Twellman is confirming that there is, indeed, an issue.
And speaking of what actual players have said, what do you make of Yedlin's comments?
The problem is McIntyre was also tweeting a bunch of baseless nonsense about Reyna with BVB which immediately makes it seem like he's pushing an agenda and trumping up something. Twellman has been on both sides of this argument. Looking through his timeline he hasn't been explicitly pro one side or the other. He has, however, been extremely critical of USSF's handling of it all. Him saying "Good Stuff" was to the writer pushing for more details/clarification.
There is of course an issue. There is friction between the current manager and one of the most promising young US prospects ever. Regardless of fault or blame, thats a huge problem that must be fixed. Especially if it would then reside with Reyna and USSF.
Yedlin's comment, assuming you mean about "fitting it with the group" or whatever, means very little. Coming from a player that wont be around in 2026 and only featured due to injuries to others in the pool leading up, I'm not going to read much into it. Especially since the culture that should matter is that built around the young stars, not aging MLS vets on the decline.
Anyhow, whether there was a player vote or not seems pretty irrelevant. There's way too much smoke and way too much solid reporting here to believe this is all some massive conspiracy by Berhalter and the USMNT, no matter how much you wish it so.
And I couldn't disagree more. I don't think its a massive conspiracy, I think its tremendous CYA. Feeding false stories about a player vote that never happened, AFTER, off the record or private information was leaked or fed to the press. All of which was meant to cast the manager in a favorable light. Thats all a huge issue beyond Gio Reyna being a brat.
Also, this is all in a vacuum ignoring the toxic politics that is the USSF and the nepotism buddy system above all else in Chicago. Berhalter was chosen for no other reason than his brother was a bigwig at US Soccer and he would be loyal to the Federation and their inner goals. There is otherwise no reason that a manager who got sacked in the Swedish 2nd Tier (probably NASL level) and then in 5 years with the Crew never won their division and finished 9th, 5th, and 5th in their conference his final 3 years....would get the job managing the most talented young US team in history. So yes, I'm not inclined to give him and US Soccer the benefit of the doubt here.
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He very well could have loafing/bad attitude etc. None of us were there so I won’t pretend to say one way or the other.
I can say though that I would understand a 20 year old who is used to coaching instruction from the worlds best frustrations with being told he’s not going to play the role he envisioned by a coach who is presently a mid level MLS quality manager. Probably misguided and gio will look back at his reaction years down the road as immature, but I 100% understand the lack of respect someone who grew up in an elite European academy may have for a middling American manager trying to make an example out of a player.
What I have the biggest problem with is a manager going to some leadership conference, airing something that should absolutely stay in the locker room and using an example from a week ago how he handled a difficult situation as an exemplary leader. Ggg thinking this conference was “off the record” is to put it nicely, incredibly naive and truthfully embarrassing he would put this story out himself.
Overall I thought ggg did an ok job in this cycle. Qualifying did not go smoothly and the “system” fell way short. He did a great job improving team morale after klinsman, did a great job recruiting dual nationals. After that, the play on the field was mediocre, his team selections left a lot to be desired and his tactical acumen was low. In the WC specifically, I thought he set his teams up well tactically and played great first halves each game, but substitutions were mistimed, tactically incorrect and no creativity going forward (gio ?).
Cut bait while you can. I don’t think anyone will be happy with just getting out of the group next WC on home soil and ggg showed nothing that would prove he can do anything more than that in four years.
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Yet he was tweeting "Apology accepted" today when people were talking about him being right all along. I don't think he walked it back as much as he misrepresented it, not that there wasn't an issue beyond "Reyna is a malcontent".
Actually no, cause he's actively playing with BVB. That is being a pro. And this isn't his first time as a US capped player. There has never been an issue with any of his other USMNT camps. He's been great with his club team, through plenty of challenges with injury and competition (not in the past, but literally up to the WC) but now suddenly he's a low effort/attitude issue.
The problem is McIntyre was also tweeting a bunch of baseless nonsense about Reyna with BVB which immediately makes it seem like he's pushing an agenda and trumping up something. Twellman has been on both sides of this argument. Looking through his timeline he hasn't been explicitly pro one side or the other. He has, however, been extremely critical of USSF's handling of it all. Him saying "Good Stuff" was to the writer pushing for more details/clarification.
There is of course an issue. There is friction between the current manager and one of the most promising young US prospects ever. Regardless of fault or blame, thats a huge problem that must be fixed. Especially if it would then reside with Reyna and USSF.
Yedlin's comment, assuming you mean about "fitting it with the group" or whatever, means very little. Coming from a player that wont be around in 2026 and only featured due to injuries to others in the pool leading up, I'm not going to read much into it. Especially since the culture that should matter is that built around the young stars, not aging MLS vets on the decline.
And I couldn't disagree more. I don't think its a massive conspiracy, I think its tremendous CYA. Feeding false stories about a player vote that never happened, AFTER, off the record or private information was leaked or fed to the press. All of which was meant to cast the manager in a favorable light. Thats all a huge issue beyond Gio Reyna being a brat.
Also, this is all in a vacuum ignoring the toxic politics that is the USSF and the nepotism buddy system above all else in Chicago. Berhalter was chosen for no other reason than his brother was a bigwig at US Soccer and he would be loyal to the Federation and their inner goals. There is otherwise no reason that a manager who got sacked in the Swedish 2nd Tier (probably NASL level) and then in 5 years with the Crew never won their division and finished 9th, 5th, and 5th in their conference his final 3 years....would get the job managing the most talented young US team in history. So yes, I'm not inclined to give him and US Soccer the benefit of the doubt here.
I just posted a bunch of nonsense but nail on the head right here. Ggg looks absolutely terrible with this leak. Horrible leadership from start to finish and appears clueless.
Just look at how arteta handled the Auba situation a couple years ago. No votes, no exceptions, no lies in the media, no leaks star player gone after he repeatedly stepped out of line.
Then there’s ggg….
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Hate to spoil your narrative boys, but ...
Gio Reyna releases a statement on his Instagram:
"I fully acknowledge that I let my emotions get the best of me & affect my training & behavior for a few days after learning about my limited role. I apologized to my teammates and coach for this, and I was told I was forgiven."
https://twitter.com/tombogert/status/1602371139900260365
Now, before anyone says it:
1. It's completely fair to criticize Berhalter for his handling of Reyna's playing time
2. It's completely fair to criticize Berhalter/USMNT for this story leaking out
But it's really, really silly to suggest this was all made up ... and now we know it wasn't.
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Hate to spoil your narrative boys, but ...
Gio Reyna releases a statement on his Instagram:
"I fully acknowledge that I let my emotions get the best of me & affect my training & behavior for a few days after learning about my limited role. I apologized to my teammates and coach for this, and I was told I was forgiven."
https://twitter.com/tombogert/status/1602371139900260365
Doesn’t change the fact ggg still has egg on his face
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Hate to spoil your narrative boys, but ...
Gio Reyna releases a statement on his Instagram:
"I fully acknowledge that I let my emotions get the best of me & affect my training & behavior for a few days after learning about my limited role. I apologized to my teammates and coach for this, and I was told I was forgiven."
https://twitter.com/tombogert/status/1602371139900260365
I just read the full quote. Gio looks 1000x better than locker room ruiner, leadership savant ggg.
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I just read the full quote. Gio looks 1000x better than locker room ruiner, leadership savant ggg.
1. What evidence do you have that the locker room was "ruined."
2. How should a coach handle a player who's loafing and pouting over playing time?
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Overall I thought ggg did an ok job in this cycle. Qualifying did not go smoothly and the “system” fell way short. He did a great job improving team morale after klinsman, did a great job recruiting dual nationals. After that, the play on the field was mediocre, his team selections left a lot to be desired and his tactical acumen was low. In the WC specifically, I thought he set his teams up well tactically and played great first halves each game, but substitutions were mistimed, tactically incorrect and no creativity going forward (gio ?).
Absolutely agree with that. It was tremendous talent acquisition by him. Between Dest and Musah and making sure Slonina didn't defect, his recruiting has been great.
As for the second part, so he's basically soccer Tom Crean?
Hate to spoil your narrative boys, but ...
Gio Reyna releases a statement on his Instagram:
"I fully acknowledge that I let my emotions get the best of me & affect my training & behavior for a few days after learning about my limited role. I apologized to my teammates and coach for this, and I was told I was forgiven."
https://twitter.com/tombogert/status/1602371139900260365
Now, before anyone says it:
1. It's completely fair to criticize Berhalter for his handling of Reyna's playing time
2. It's completely fair to criticize Berhalter/USMNT for this story leaking out
But it's really, really silly to suggest this was all made up ... and now we know it wasn't.
I don't think I ever implied it was made up. All that I said was made up was the player vote part. I never said Reyna was blameless, but that he didn't have a history of diva/toxic/bad changing room behavior that would imply a bust up of what was being reported. Like he was tearing the entire team apart and teammates wanted him gone.
Echoing some of panda, I think Berhalter handled Reyna terribly, for what reason, I don't know. Why he couldn't fit someone like that into his system, who knows. (Telling one of the 3 best players in the side that they will have a very limited role in the WC, before even playing a match, is just baffling. This isn't a lumbering 7 foot center in basketball who can be schemed out by a couple fast outside shooting teams) Reyna could have reacted better, absolutely, but again, he's far from the first. (Clint Dempsey once ripped open his hand because he wasn't starting a Europa League match). Regardless of any of that, the way the news/situation has been leaked/shared/reported on is embarrassing and problematic. Made it look like outright mutiny or a coup by Reyna that was handled magnificently by a calm and strong manager.
Nothing about Reyna's statement makes me feel any better about US Soccer or Berhalter or the very real possibility he's extended before year end.
I just read the full quote. Gio looks 1000x better than locker room ruiner, leadership savant ggg.
Yep. Especially verifying that blatant falsehoods were being reported, as we've addressed, as well as being told stuff was done and over with...only to be rehashed well after the tourney.
Also, real questionable part to highlight in that tweet Tom...
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2. How should a coach handle a player who's loafing and pouting over playing time?
Internally.
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Internally.
Yes - and not saying gio was hurt when he was fit.
Very pathetic Ggg just couldn’t wait more than a week to throw a 20 year old under the bus.
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2. How should a coach handle a player who's loafing and pouting over playing time?
Let him transfer.
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Hate to spoil your narrative boys, but ...
Gio Reyna releases a statement on his Instagram:
"I fully acknowledge that I let my emotions get the best of me & affect my training & behavior for a few days after learning about my limited role. I apologized to my teammates and coach for this, and I was told I was forgiven."
https://twitter.com/tombogert/status/1602371139900260365
Now, before anyone says it:
1. It's completely fair to criticize Berhalter for his handling of Reyna's playing time
2. It's completely fair to criticize Berhalter/USMNT for this story leaking out
But it's really, really silly to suggest this was all made up ... and now we know it wasn't.
Who suggested it was "all made up"? I missed that post so could you link it?
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Who suggested it was "all made up"? I missed that post so could you link it?
That was an exaggeration on my part. Apologies.
Instead, there were remarks about the reports about his lack of effort not being believable.
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https://www.reddit.com/r/MLS/comments/zkap8e/jimmy_conrad_on_in_soccer_we_trust_i_heard_the/
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That was an exaggeration on my part. Apologies.
Instead, there were remarks about the reports about his lack of effort not being believable.
I only found it unbelievable to the extent they were portraying it as. Like I mentioned in prior posts, players, even great teammates and players, get pissed about playing time and act out about it. Ones far older and more seasons than Reyna. To make this out to be something that would rip the team apart seemed pretty out of character and far more exaggerated than anything his history or other professional experience would suggest. That’s all I was aiming at. Otherwise “coach benches star player, player gets upset about it, it’s handled internally team moves on” isn’t unbelievable nor earth shattering.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MLS/comments/zkap8e/jimmy_conrad_on_in_soccer_we_trust_i_heard_the/
Again, I think context/which players matter. Jimmy Conrad is a 45 year old MLS lifer. I imagine his sources were not 22 year old European based members of the team. Probably other guys that think Morris is still a game changer, like Berhalter does. Which again highlights this schism that US Soccer has to deal with. The future of the US team as a potential power is in guys like Pulisic, McKinnie, Reyna, Musah, Weah, Dest…guys that never played a minute in MLS. And guys like Adams, Aaronsen, Richards, Scally, Pepi, and Slonina who left MLS before they could legally drink. There will always be MLS based support players for some international windows and whatnot, but having lesser players getting those spots because of the MLS loyalty of manager and federation creates a schism. I highly doubt those complaining about Reyna’s playing time were any of the ones I listed above.
At the end of the day, it’s part of the manager’s job to foster and mend that schism, if it exists, and regardless of Reyna, Berhalter doesn’t seem to have been able to do that.
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...Which again highlights this schism that US Soccer has to deal with. The future of the US team as a potential power is in guys like Pulisic, McKinnie, Reyna, Musah, Weah, Dest…guys that never played a minute in MLS. And guys like Adams, Aaronsen, Richards, Scally, Pepi, and Slonina who left MLS before they could legally drink. There will always be MLS based support players for some international windows and whatnot, but having lesser players getting those spots because of the MLS loyalty of manager and federation creates a schism. ...
Good points JWags. And you hint at something I've been wondering about. Were there any rosters in the World Cup that were 100% players from that country's league(s)? I was think that it might be England, but Jude Bellingham plays in Germany. The German squad had players from the English PL and Spanish La Liga. Maybe Italy? Nope; players in the PL and in France. And, of course, not France (who's goalie plays alongside Harry Kane at Tottenham). Maybe Qatar's team?!
The game is international, borders (even nationalities) are porous, and tensions between home country leagues and players playing elsewhere will continue to exist. Especially in countries like the US where the national leagues is so clearly a step (or 3) below European leagues.
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My recollection may be off, but I believe the 2018 Swedish team that made the quarter finals had ZERO players playing in its national league.
Regardless, I think these issues are somewhat unique to the US due to provincial thinking and the cozy relationship between MLS and USSF. Klinnsman ran up against this when he was openly encouraging players to head to Europe. Even if you have to go the Daryl Dike route and play in the English Championship. That's a lot better than MLS and is an absolutely grueling schedule with 46 league games and two cup competitions so you will get plenty of opportunity.
I also think MLS is at the point where it really doesn't NEED the stars to drive as much viewership any longer.
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My recollection may be off, but I believe the 2018 Swedish team that made the quarter finals had ZERO players playing in its national league.
Regardless, I think these issues are somewhat unique to the US due to provincial thinking and the cozy relationship between MLS and USSF. Klinnsman ran up against this when he was openly encouraging players to head to Europe. Even if you have to go the Daryl Dike route and play in the English Championship. That's a lot better than MLS and is an absolutely grueling schedule with 46 league games and two cup competitions so you will get plenty of opportunity.
I also think MLS is at the point where it really doesn't NEED the stars to drive as much viewership any longer.
It's certainly common that African teams (especially those from Sub-Saharan Africa) don't have any (or very few) players that play domestically.
I recall several World Cup cycles ago where the 'traditional' nations were bemoaning the loss of their national 'style' of play since their players were more frequently playing elsewhere. Italy and Germany seem to have felt it the most, though I suppose one might argue that that's why Brazil hasn't won for 20 years. And there's France, who won last time with players who weren't even really French. ?-(
I think that MLS is accepting that it's place on the global ladder of leagues is not so high. It benefits from being attractive to fading stars, which sells lots of tickets and jerseys, and also trying to establish academies that groom and sell budding stars, to bring in transfer fees.
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https://twitter.com/bvbbuzz/status/1602656525465550849?s=46&t=poTw4dRqgVD3qOWvl_qgRg
The lengths the mls/ussf backed media will go to smear one of our top players and defend their prized coaching asset is remarkable.
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https://twitter.com/bvbbuzz/status/1602656525465550849?s=46&t=poTw4dRqgVD3qOWvl_qgRg
The lengths the mls/ussf backed media will go to smear one of our top players and defend their prized coaching asset is remarkable.
Not saying this isn't accurate, but you have to take what this guy is saying with a grain of salt right? What is he supposed to say especially since he has no idea what actually happened.
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Not saying this isn't accurate, but you have to take what this guy is saying with a grain of salt right? What is he supposed to say especially since he has no idea what actually happened.
“This guy” being the sporting director of dortmund saying they’ve never had any issues with gio at the club level should be taken w a grain of salt ?
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https://www.reddit.com/r/MLS/comments/zkap8e/jimmy_conrad_on_in_soccer_we_trust_i_heard_the/
If we go with Conrad on this it would seem to make Berhalter's position all the more untenable. Reyna went DNP, seven minutes, DNP, halftime sub.
Initially, the painting was Berhalter was working on behalf of the unit when he froze out the ill-tempered youth. But now with Conrad's words it would seem the unit could be broken a bit by some feeling letdown as Berhalter relented. He vacillated and caused issues with both sides of the reported problem.
Clean house and fresh slate for all seems so much the wise choice I wouldn't expect it to happen.
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“This guy” being the sporting director of dortmund saying they’ve never had any issues with gio at the club level should be taken w a grain of salt ?
I mean, Reyna admitted he behaved poorly, right? He admitted his behavior was such that he had to apologize to his teammates.
I'm not sure why it's so hard to imagine that a 20-year-old who hadn't created problems previously in one circumstance reacted poorly to disappointing news in a completely different circumstance.
Especially, you know, when that 20-year-old admits he behaved poorly.
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“This guy” being the sporting director of dortmund saying they’ve never had any issues with gio at the club level should be taken w a grain of salt ?
1. Because he doesn't actually know what happened with USMNT. Just because he has had no problems at BVB, that doesn't mean he wouldn't have problems elsewhere.
2. What is he supposed to say? He's defending his player like every other person in that role would.
Look, the whole situation is unfortunate and the coach should have handled it better. But its obvious SOMETHING happened...otherwise why would Gio apologize? To say that they are intentionally "smearing" one of their top players is a little hyperbolic.
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I think it says more about a player that has never stepped out of line in three years in a very difficult and competitive club setting.
He apologized for something that happened in the lead up to the WC, but I’m finding much more an issue with how ggg/ussf handled (or didn’t really handle) the issue. Completely bungled from start to finish and shows his severe lack of managerial and leadership experience.
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I mean, Reyna admitted he behaved poorly, right? He admitted his behavior was such that he had to apologize to his teammates.
I'm not sure why it's so hard to imagine that a 20-year-old who hadn't created problems previously in one circumstance reacted poorly to disappointing news in a completely different circumstance.
Especially, you know, when that 20-year-old admits he behaved poorly.
I can't speak for panda is referring to, but I mentioned this tweet from McIntyre before...
https://twitter.com/jasonrmcintyre/status/1602151244939726848?s=20&t=ryLUET_D1N6nAK1dfkhHYw
Completely unsubstantiated but seeking to bolster the WC story. Its been refuted by German media and BVB multiple times.
Look, the whole situation is unfortunate and the coach should have handled it better. But its obvious SOMETHING happened...otherwise why would Gio apologize? To say that they are intentionally "smearing" one of their top players is a little hyperbolic.
I think my issue is that from a lot of the USSF/MLS media is that there isn't a "the player acted out, it could have been handled by Berhalter better, etc..." It just seems very much like "Look at how steady handed management was addressing this bratty 20 year old diva. Here is more depth to him being a diva". I wouldn't say smearing either, thats a bit dramatic. But it does seem like the angle was far more insistent on showing how much of a problem Berhalter had to deal with, as opposed to also viewing how it could have best been handled.
For levity, Ive respectfully disagreed with a lot of Pak's arguments on this here, but at least he's not this dude...
https://twitter.com/the_bonnfire/status/1602097208400248832?s=20&t=ryLUET_D1N6nAK1dfkhHYw
https://twitter.com/the_bonnfire/status/1602100823240196096?s=20&t=ryLUET_D1N6nAK1dfkhHYw
https://twitter.com/the_bonnfire/status/1602100070509432833?s=20&t=ryLUET_D1N6nAK1dfkhHYw
Forget a Christmas card or a fruit basket, does US Soccer and/or Berhalter provide this guy with a padded back brace for all the water he is carrying? That last tweet is particularly unhinged and borderline satirical.
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I don't think anyone here is arguing that Berhalter isn't very much in the wrong for letting this get public, and that's a poor reflection on him.
But that doesn't change the fact that Reyna's behavior was a serious issue - by his own admission, even. And all the posts about his reputation at Dortmund or gripes about Berhalter, MLS and the USSF, doesn't change that.
It's OK for there not to be a good guy vs bad guy narrative to this. It seems almost as if some want to make Reyna a martyr here - or at least excuse/ignore his role in this mess - just because he's on the opposite side of Berhalter. In reality, there's plenty of reason to believe they both acted poorly.
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I don't think anyone here is arguing that Berhalter isn't very much in the wrong for letting this get public, and that's a poor reflection on him.
But that doesn't change the fact that Reyna's behavior was a serious issue - by his own admission, even. And all the posts about his reputation at Dortmund or gripes about Berhalter, MLS and the USSF, doesn't change that.
It's OK for there not to be a good guy vs bad guy narrative to this. It seems almost as if some want to make Reyna a martyr here - or at least excuse/ignore his role in this mess - just because he's on the opposite side of Berhalter. In reality, there's plenty of reason to believe they both acted poorly.
No, the conversation here has been pretty even handed, as to be expected. I think the majority of what ive griped about has been the reporting and tweeting from media about it, which is very much revolving around a good vs bad narrative. I mean, look at what I just posted. Thats not a fanboy, not Berhalter's family or friends, thats the Sporting News soccer writer. And he's far from alone.
Again, the he said/she said is meaningless in the long run, 4 years is a long ways away and even if it was total slander (which is wasnt), Reyna can move past it just fine and continue to be a superstar who is still only 24 come 2026. My issue with all of this and the MLS/USSF is that it feels like setting up for more of the same. Nobody with a non biased brain thinks Berhalter is the right fit for the USMNT moving forward, much less 2026, but this veneration of his handling of the situation, the skirting of blame for him and his team's management of the player and the narrative around it (by the media, by US Soccer press, not by you or others on Scoop), is incredibly concerning. Again, I would be absolutely not shocked at all to see an extension for him, "he did great, got us out of the group stages, let him have until Copa 2024 at least!"
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I don't think anyone here is arguing that Berhalter isn't very much in the wrong for letting this get public, and that's a poor reflection on him.
But that doesn't change the fact that Reyna's behavior was a serious issue - by his own admission, even. And all the posts about his reputation at Dortmund or gripes about Berhalter, MLS and the USSF, doesn't change that.
It's OK for there not to be a good guy vs bad guy narrative to this. It seems almost as if some want to make Reyna a martyr here - or at least excuse/ignore his role in this mess - just because he's on the opposite side of Berhalter. In reality, there's plenty of reason to believe they both acted poorly.
No one from dortmund is obligated to say nice things about him outside of their team structure. Yet, it says a lot when the gm personally vouches for your character.
Gio screwed up. He apologized.
Ggg lied to the media, bungled the role of one of his best players in qualifying and then showed, at best, extreme levels of naivety with this leadership conference debacle. And he still hasn’t spoken since the “leak.”
The guy is amateur hour personified on the world stage of soccer and shouldn’t coach another game for the federation.
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Sheesh. I hope the next USMNT coach is another from the deep MLS/USSF cabal just to watch heads here explode
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Sheesh. I hope the next USMNT coach is another from the deep MLS/USSF cabal just to watch heads here explode
Lolz, yea, lets waste another 4 years of talent for the Scoop entertainment. No need to be a smug contrarian clown my man. I would think we want the same thing. Feel free to add something, anything, to the conversation other than more tweet links without comment. Or keep mocking.
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Lolz, yea, lets waste another 4 years of talent for the Scoop entertainment. No need to be a smug contrarian clown my man. I would think we want the same think. Feel free to add something, anything, to the conversation other than more tweet links without comment. Or keep mocking.
Don't forget incessant questions.
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I'm not super familiar with potential US coaching candidates. Is there any reason it wouldn't be Jesse Marsch for 2026?
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I'm not super familiar with potential US coaching candidates. Is there any reason it wouldn't be Jesse Marsch for 2026?
Hard to pull a coach from a Prem job. Last time it was offered to him he wasn't interested, and he wasn't even in the Prem at the time. National team jobs in general are not very glamorous.
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No, the conversation here has been pretty even handed, as to be expected.
<reads panda's posts again>
Nope.
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A couple of lucky bounces on the run to the second, but what was that set piece by Croatia?
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<reads panda's posts again>
Nope.
😎😎😎
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Lolz, yea, lets waste another 4 years of talent for the Scoop entertainment. No need to be a smug contrarian clown my man. I would think we want the same thing. Feel free to add something, anything, to the conversation other than more tweet links without comment. Or keep mocking.
We do want the same thing. I desperately want a world-class manager to come in and take the young talent to the next level.
I just don't believe there's a big conspiracy afoot.
I believe GGG told Gio early on he wouldn't be starting or playing a ton of minutes. That pissed Gio off and he loafed for a bit. That pissed his teammates and coaches off. He was asked to apologize. His teammates accepted the apology.
I don't think there's any more to the story.
I do think early in the discussions of this story, as with lots of new stories, there was a bunch of half-truths and misunderstandings and bad info being circulated. I don't truly think any of that was intentional.
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Don't forget incessant questions.
🐷🐷
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We do want the same thing. I desperately want a world-class manager to come in and take the young talent to the next level.
I just don't believe there's a big conspiracy afoot.
I believe GGG told Gio early on he wouldn't be starting or playing a ton of minutes. That pissed Gio off and he loafed for a bit. That pissed his teammates and coaches off. He was asked to apologize. His teammates accepted the apology.
I don't think there's any more to the story.
I do think early in the discussions of this story, as with lots of new stories, there was a bunch of half-truths and misunderstandings and bad info being circulated. I don't truly think any of that was intentional.
Nobody is clattering on about a conspiracy, not even panda. Just pointing out, in my/his opinion, misrepresentations of things by the USSF loyal media and abysmal management and leadership by Berhalter.
As for your last part, we'll have to agree to disagree, cause I think it was absolutely intentional. I actually don't think it was necessarily intentional by Berhalter, but those carrying his water and behind the scenes at USSF absolutely played things a certain way. He is/was over his head and handled the situation poorly. No amount of glowing bromides from the US press will convince me otherwise. Again, not a conspiracy, just pathetic leadership and CYA by a mess of an org.
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GOAT rodeo?
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🐷🐷
You don't get it.
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Nobody is clattering on about a conspiracy, not even panda. Just pointing out, in my/his opinion, misrepresentations of things by the USSF loyal media and abysmal management and leadership by Berhalter.
As for your last part, we'll have to agree to disagree, cause I think it was absolutely intentional. I actually don't think it was necessarily intentional by Berhalter, but those carrying his water and behind the scenes at USSF absolutely played things a certain way. He is/was over his head and handled the situation poorly. No amount of glowing bromides from the US press will convince me otherwise. Again, not a conspiracy, just pathetic leadership and CYA by a mess of an org.
You say you don't believe any of this is a conspiracy, and yet ...
1. You've said the only reason Berhalter got the job was because of his brother and loyalty to "inner goals."
2. You've suggested there's some kind of media cabal working in concert with the USSF to plant misleading and untrue stories concerning Reyna.
3. You've suggested these stories about Reyna were planted as a cover for his lack of playing time.
4. You've suggested that current or former players who've made remarks critical of Reyna are doing so out allegiance to MLS.
5. You've suggested that there's some MLS vs non-MLS schism among the players.
All these things sound rather, well, conspiratorial.
You're suggesting time and again that those with whom you disagree aren't simply people with good intentions but wrong opinions. You claim they are acting in underhanded and dishonest ways, to push false narratives and hidden agendas.
That's textbook conspiracy, isn't it?
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You say you don't believe any of this is a conspiracy, and yet ...
1. You've said the only reason Berhalter got the job was because of his brother and loyalty to "inner goals."
2. You've suggested there's some kind of media cabal working in concert with the USSF to plant misleading and untrue stories concerning Reyna.
3. You've suggested these stories about Reyna were planted as a cover for his lack of playing time.
4. You've suggested that current or former players who've made remarks critical of Reyna are doing so out allegiance to MLS.
5. You've suggested that there's some MLS vs non-MLS schism among the players.
All these things sound rather, well, conspiratorial.
You're suggesting time and again that those with whom you disagree aren't simply people with good intentions but wrong opinions. You claim they are acting in underhanded and dishonest ways, to push false narratives and hidden agendas.
That's textbook conspiracy, isn't it?
Most of that it true. It looks conspiratorial to the untrained eye, but it's just plain old USSF incompetence on many different levels. USSF has worked to boost up MLS in the very early days when it needed help however that continues now even though MLS has proven they're a legitimate organization which can run on their own.
J Berhalter hired Ernie Stewart. The federation interviewed one person who wowed them in the interview process. He did such a good job he made them forget about about his unsuccessful spell in Sweden and unremarkable stay in MLS. Hint - the one person interviewed wasn't, Julen Lopetegui, Peter Vermes, Jesse Marsch, Oscar Pareja, Tab Ramos, or Tata Martino. It was the brother of the guy who hired Ernie Stewart. Obviously no funny business took place though :-/
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You don't get it.
If true, would you like to explain it?
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GOAT rodeo?
Incredible performance
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Nobody is clattering on about a conspiracy, not even panda. Just pointing out, in my/his opinion, misrepresentations of things by the USSF loyal media and abysmal management and leadership by Berhalter.
As for your last part, we'll have to agree to disagree, cause I think it was absolutely intentional. I actually don't think it was necessarily intentional by Berhalter, but those carrying his water and behind the scenes at USSF absolutely played things a certain way. He is/was over his head and handled the situation poorly. No amount of glowing bromides from the US press will convince me otherwise. Again, not a conspiracy, just pathetic leadership and CYA by a mess of an org.
I have always held the belief that GGG hiring was not transparent, at best.
That said, he's gotten acceptable, not great, results. Most likely time to move on. Though I think the players should have a bit of a say in the situation.
With regard to the journalists/pundits/analysts/whatever...I just don't know that I buy there's that much influence from USSF that they can hold sway/power over folks to write/talk a certain way. Or that any of those individuals care enough about GGG/USSF to write it so biased.
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I have always held the belief that GGG hiring was not transparent, at best.
That said, he's gotten acceptable, not great, results. Most likely time to move on. Though I think the players should have a bit of a say in the situation.
With regard to the journalists/pundits/analysts/whatever...I just don't know that I buy there's that much influence from USSF that they can hold sway/power over folks to write/talk a certain way. Or that any of those individuals care enough about GGG/USSF to write it so biased.
Google the origins of SUM and the direct link between USSF and MLS. Knowing more about SUM, its not a big leap to believe USSF also influences certain journalists to portray them in a certain light or push narratives on their behalf.
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Most of that it true. It looks conspiratorial to the untrained eye, but it's just plain old USSF incompetence on many different levels. USSF has worked to boost up MLS in the very early days when it needed help however that continues now even though MLS has proven they're a legitimate organization which can run on their own.
J Berhalter hired Ernie Stewart. The federation interviewed one person who wowed them in the interview process. He did such a good job he made them forget about about his unsuccessful spell in Sweden and unremarkable stay in MLS. Hint - the one person interviewed wasn't, Julen Lopetegui, Peter Vermes, Jesse Marsch, Oscar Pareja, Tab Ramos, or Tata Martino. It was the brother of the guy who hired Ernie Stewart. Obviously no funny business took place though :-/
What you're describing is a conspiracy.
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What you're describing is a conspiracy.
Which part
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Arena was fired October '17. It made sense to wait until after Russia '18 to make a hire as there were likely to be big names opening up. GGG wasn't hired until Dec '18. Big names were approached and politely turned down the job before it could even get to an interview stage. I'm sure GGG's standing within the USSF didn't hurt his chances, but the job also was not very attractive, even as far as national team jobs go. None of this will matter as long as the next hire is the right one. My concern is that it won't be.
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Which part
Pretty much all of it.
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You say you don't believe any of this is a conspiracy, and yet ...
1. You've said the only reason Berhalter got the job was because of his brother and loyalty to "inner goals."
2. You've suggested there's some kind of media cabal working in concert with the USSF to plant misleading and untrue stories concerning Reyna.
3. You've suggested these stories about Reyna were planted as a cover for his lack of playing time.
4. You've suggested that current or former players who've made remarks critical of Reyna are doing so out allegiance to MLS.
5. You've suggested that there's some MLS vs non-MLS schism among the players.
All these things sound rather, well, conspiratorial.
You're suggesting time and again that those with whom you disagree aren't simply people with good intentions but wrong opinions. You claim they are acting in underhanded and dishonest ways, to push false narratives and hidden agendas.
That's textbook conspiracy, isn't it?
Ok, how about this. I don't think there was a conspiracy in this WC story. But I do think there is a conspiracy to consolidate, retain, and direct power, as well as push agendas (aka $$$) inside USSF that is not in the best interests of the national team's greater success.
As panda just mentioned, the SUM/USSF/MLS alliance has made a TON of money as MLS has grown, and none of it has anything to do with having a USMNT that contends on the world stage. As a matter of fact, I don't think the agendas are "hidden", I think its pretty damn clear.
As for 4 and 5, I think its very much a real thing. I don't know if its a schism that divides the locker room on a regular basis, but one group needs MLS and the cozy MLS/USSF relationship to make large salaries and get caps, the other would be in the exact same position if MLS didn't exist or was the equivalent of the Costa Rican/Honduran league. That breeds a differing set of loyalties or perspectives. I don't know how that is deniable.
With regard to the journalists/pundits/analysts/whatever...I just don't know that I buy there's that much influence from USSF that they can hold sway/power over folks to write/talk a certain way. Or that any of those individuals care enough about GGG/USSF to write it so biased.
The quoted and your point #2 is not some grand conspiracy. Adam Schefter does it with the NFL. Writers do it with the NBA, even moreso when Stern was around, MLB, etc... Favorable and deferential coverage means access and scoops and perks.
But serious question, both to Pakuni and Jesu...look at the hiring of Berhalter. Look back to the stories about candidates at the time, including Lopetegui who actually approached US Soccer himself. I don't know how anyone can look at the circumstances of Berhalter's hiring and go "nothing to see here, this is a well run Federation committed to winning a WC. This is an incredible thread highlighting it...
https://twitter.com/FootyMoments21/status/1600210519889018881
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Pretty much all of it.
Educate yourself folks.
https://www.si.com/soccer/2018/11/30/gregg-berhalter-usmnt-manager-us-soccer-earnie-stewart-jay
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Educate yourself folks.
https://www.si.com/soccer/2018/11/30/gregg-berhalter-usmnt-manager-us-soccer-earnie-stewart-jay
Educate yourself.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/conspiracy
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Educate yourself.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/conspiracy
“Googles burying head in sand”
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The quoted and your point #2 is not some grand conspiracy. Adam Schefter does it with the NFL. Writers do it with the NBA, even moreso when Stern was around, MLB, etc... Favorable and deferential coverage means access and scoops and perks.
But serious question, both to Pakuni and Jesu...look at the hiring of Berhalter. Look back to the stories about candidates at the time, including Lopetegui who actually approached US Soccer himself. I don't know how anyone can look at the circumstances of Berhalter's hiring and go "nothing to see here, this is a well run Federation committed to winning a WC. This is an incredible thread highlighting it...
https://twitter.com/FootyMoments21/status/1600210519889018881
Ironically, I had read that thread a few days ago and discussed with other soccer friends.
As I posted earlier, the hiring of GGG was, at best, poor in its transparency
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Argentina looked dominant today. Can France break through the Moroccan defense?
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Ironically, I had read that thread a few days ago and discussed with other soccer friends.
As I posted earlier, the hiring of GGG was, at best, poor in its transparency
Yea it was more for Pak. I'm not trying to pretend I'm unbiased against Berhalter, but I'm also baffled anyone thinks the USSF is on the up and up and has been worthy of the benefit of the doubt for a long time.
Argentina looked dominant today. Can France break through the Moroccan defense?
I don't know if I would agree. Argentina were the better team cause they were clinical in execution, but Croatia outshot them and maintained more possession. Croatia were on the front foot and looked more dangerous all the way up until Messi's PK. And while the second goal was a brilliantly executed counter attack, Croatia had it covered and the goal was rather flukey.
So I think Argentina was very deserving of the result and the outcome, I don't think it was truly dominating like Brazil over SK or England over Senegal. They got some breaks in the first half and then controlled the match after halftime.
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“Googles burying head in sand”
The point keeps zooming over your head.
Conspiracy is not synonymous with false, panda.
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Yea it was more for Pak. I'm not trying to pretend I'm unbiased against Berhalter, but I'm also baffled anyone thinks the USSF is on the up and up and has been worthy of the benefit of the doubt for a long time.
Can you point out where I said or even implied this?
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Can you point out where I said or even implied this?
Point number 1 in your 5 point manifesto earlier.
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Yea it was more for Pak. I'm not trying to pretend I'm unbiased against Berhalter, but I'm also baffled anyone thinks the USSF is on the up and up and has been worthy of the benefit of the doubt for a long time.
No doubt there was/is corruption in USSF. Look at gulati alone.
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jwags, did you think for one nano-second that Croatia could win? After the first few minutes, Argentina was inevitable. Croatia possessed the ball but never sustained a threat. The only two questions were final margin and why leave Messi in with a big lead?
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Point number 1 in your 5 point manifesto earlier.
Not close.
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Not close.
Sorry I misunderstood you. Can you clarify your original point ?
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jwags, did you think for one nano-second that Croatia could win? After the first few minutes, Argentina was inevitable. Croatia possessed the ball but never sustained a threat. The only two questions were final margin and why leave Messi in with a big lead?
I'll give it a go, Tower. Argentina were dominant and Croatia never really had a chance. Argentina did to Croatia what the Netherlands did to the US; that is, let them/us think we had a chance and had opportunities, but really just baited them/us into their traps.
It was actually about the most boring game of this entire Cup. I sure hope tomorrow is better.
How about all you others...what did you think about today's game?
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Sorry I misunderstood you. Can you clarify your original point ?
Sure.
Wags claiming that Berhalter was hired "for no other reason" than his brother and loyalty to "inner goals" is suggestive of a conspiracy. To wit, Berhalter's hiring was in furtherance of a secret plan - or at least unspoken plan - to do something he views as harmful, in this case sacrificing the national team's potential to prop up MLS and boost the federation's revenues.
I would suggest this is untrue. But even if it were, it's still a conspiracy.
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Sure.
Wags claiming that Berhalter was hired "for no other reason" than his brother and loyalty to "inner goals" is suggestive of a conspiracy. To wit, Berhalter's hiring was in furtherance of a secret plan - or at least unspoken plan - to do something he views as harmful, in this case sacrificing the national team's potential to prop up MLS and boost the federation's revenues.
I would suggest this is untrue. But even if it were, it's still a conspiracy.
Most of that is true
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Most of that is true
Maybe. I don't know. Neither do you. Or Wags.
I have an old friend pretty high up in the USMNT hierarchy. Maybe I'll ask him some day.
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Sure.
Wags claiming that Berhalter was hired "for no other reason" than his brother and loyalty to "inner goals" is suggestive of a conspiracy. To wit, Berhalter's hiring was in furtherance of a secret plan - or at least unspoken plan - to do something he views as harmful, in this case sacrificing the national team's potential to prop up MLS and boost the federation's revenues.
I would suggest this is untrue. But even if it were, it's still a conspiracy.
Your only arguments to the alternative seem to be acting like we’re crazy and implying it’s far fetched. Like “let me be contrarian to the guys who passionately believe something negative about US soccer, even though they present ample evidence. Cause of Occams Razor or something”
You keep mocking everything we say about the circumstances about Berhalter’s hiring without a word of support for why it would be anything less than questionable at best.
Look at the thread I posted, none of that was baseless speculation or conspiracy theory
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Maybe. I don't know. Neither do you. Or Wags.
I have an old friend pretty high up in the USMNT hierarchy. Maybe I'll ask him some day.
I mean a lot of it is well established points you’re refusing to acknowledge because you don’t want to agree with us.
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Your only arguments to the alternative seem to be acting like we’re crazy and implying it’s far fetched. Like “let me be contrarian to the guys who passionately believe something negative about US soccer, even though they present ample evidence. Cause of Occams Razor or something”
You keep mocking everything we say about the circumstances about Berhalter’s hiring without a word of support for why it would be anything less than questionable at best.
Look at the thread I posted, none of that was baseless speculation or conspiracy theory
Of course it's a conspiracy theory. Like all good conspiracy theories, it mixes known facts with pure speculation that bolsters the theory, and ignores any other logical inference that casts doubt on the theory. It's Conspiracy Theory 101.
For example, Jay hiring Earnie Stewart is a known fact. Jay hiring Stewart because he knew that Stewart would hire Gregg as national team coach is speculation.
Or, Gregg giving MLS players time with the national team is a known fact. Gregg giving MLS players time with the national team primarily as a means to promote MLS (as opposed to, right or wrong, thinking it was the best way to win) is speculation.
Or, Jordan Morris and Aaron Long were selected for the World Cup roster is a known fact. Jordan Morris and Aaron Long were selected for the World Cup roster over more deserving players because they come from larger MLS markets is speculation.
I don't see how this could be any more clear as conspiracy theory. The guy is literally accusing members of the USSF of corruption and intentionally harming the national team's chances of success to enrich themselves.
How is that not a conspiracy?
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I'll give it a go, Tower. Argentina were dominant and Croatia never really had a chance. Argentina did to Croatia what the Netherlands did to the US; that is, let them/us think we had a chance and had opportunities, but really just baited them/us into their traps.
It was actually about the most boring game of this entire Cup. I sure hope tomorrow is better.
How about all you others...what did you think about today's game?
Surfin 7th rocks.
As I said, it felt inevitable to me. Like a Hallmark movie. ::)
France-Morocco... if France gets a goal in the first half, I expect them to pull away like Argentina. But, if Morocco keeps it scoreless for the first 70 or so, I expect them to score late and win.
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Surfin 7th rocks. DAMN STRAIGHT!
As I said, it felt inevitable to me. Like a Hallmark movie. ::)
France-Morocco... if France gets a goal in the first half, I expect them to pull away like Argentina. But, if Morocco keeps it scoreless for the first 70 or so, I expect them to score late and win.
Definitely the longer Morocco holds on, the more pressure France will be under. I wish I felt like the will be able to withstand France's attacks, but, despite their amazing showing so far, I just don't see it.
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@NPR: JUST IN: Grant Wahl, the American soccer sportswriter who died at the World Cup in Qatar, had an ascending aortic aneurysm, according to an autopsy revealed by his wife.
https://n.pr/3Hw213r
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@NPR: JUST IN: Grant Wahl, the American soccer sportswriter who died at the World Cup in Qatar, had an ascending aortic aneurysm, according to an autopsy revealed by his wife.
https://n.pr/3Hw213r
Not that any age is a "good" age to die, Grant had just turned 49. Very sad.
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I'll give it a go, Tower. Argentina were dominant and Croatia never really had a chance. Argentina did to Croatia what the Netherlands did to the US; that is, let them/us think we had a chance and had opportunities, but really just baited them/us into their traps.
It was actually about the most boring game of this entire Cup. I sure hope tomorrow is better.
How about all you others...what did you think about today's game?
Both games similar. Winning managers dared the team that had shown limited real threat to score to beat the odds and do it in a big moment. Activity versus achievement on display. Winning teams had a duo of players (Dumfries/Memphis and Messi/Alvarez) that elevated and punished the mistakes of an opposing team that got too comfortable for a moment.
Argentina v. France would be a matchup worthy of a Cup final. Drama and storylines galore on and off the field.
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Both games similar. Winning managers dared the team that had shown limited real threat to score to beat the odds and do it in a big moment. Activity versus achievement on display. Winning teams had a duo of players (Dumfries/Memphis and Messi/Alvarez) that elevated and punished the mistakes of an opposing team that got too comfortable for a moment.
Argentina v. France would be a matchup worthy of a Cup final. Drama and storylines galore on and off the field.
In line with your thinking, I see Mbappe/Giroud being a French duo that could likely step up and make Morocco pay. I'd like to see Morocco win, but don't expect it. And, I agree that the storylines around Argentina v. France would be significant.
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Well that didn't take long. Fear the floodgates might open.
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Amazing shot and amazing save by Lloris.
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Could have easily been 3-0 France, even though Morocco looked out of sorts on defense all half, they managed to get a couple chances and hold strong.
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Could have easily been 3-0 France, even though Morocco looked out of sorts on defense all half, they managed to get a couple chances and hold strong.
Could have been. But I wouldn’t be surprised if they level it.
Feels like another goal is coming either way.
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Well that didn't take long. Fear the floodgates might open.
Credit to Morocco for tightening up after the early goal but the game has largely stunk. France has been characteristically poor with their finishing and the rest of the game has been largely wasted opportunities.
Also this ref is wildly lenient. This match should have at least 5 cards by now.
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2
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France is pretty damn good, even with missing some pretty important dudes.
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France is pretty damn good, even with missing some pretty important dudes.
Mbappe was struggling with a knock and was being discussed coming off...then proceeded to dummy a few defenders late on in absurd fashion. They are so scary. Hell, Griezmann is still in his prime, has scored 5 goals in just 14 La Liga appearances for a team that doesn't score much, just scored 9 goals in 16 apps for France in 2021...and he's kind of an after thought, a supporting player in attack.
I can't even fathom this team with an in-form Benzema
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Amazing shot and amazing save by Lloris.
Spurs guaranteed to have a world cup winner after this
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Mbappe was struggling with a knock and was being discussed coming off...then proceeded to dummy a few defenders late on in absurd fashion. They are so scary. Hell, Griezmann is still in his prime, has scored 5 goals in just 14 La Liga appearances for a team that doesn't score much, just scored 9 goals in 16 apps for France in 2021...and he's kind of an after thought, a supporting player in attack.
I can't even fathom this team with an in-form Benzema
Their depth is just unfair. No Nkunku, no Kimpembe, no Lucas Hernandez, no Benzema, no Kante, no Pogba, then Rabiot and Upamecano get sick, and you can still afford to have Coman and Camavinga as unused subs. Players that are good enough to walk into just about any starting XI in the world can’t find their way onto the field even after a slew of injuries.
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Their depth is just unfair. No Nkunku, no Kimpembe, no Lucas Hernandez, no Benzema, no Kante, no Pogba, then Rabiot and Upamecano get sick, and you can still afford to have Coman and Camavinga as unused subs. Players that are good enough to walk into just about any starting XI in the world can’t find their way onto the field even after a slew of injuries.
Yep, and their attacking is so disgusting you forget that their back line is so good that Mendy, who basically starts at LB for Real Madrid, and Digne who has been an EPL mainstay who just sold for $35MM+…didn’t even make the roster
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Proposal for the format of the 2026 WC.
12 groups of 4 teams. Top 8 group winners in terms of points get byes into the round of 16. Bottom 4 group winners are drawn into the round of 32 with all the group runners up.
Pros: No stupid 3 team groups. No rewarding a 3rd place finisher from a group. Encourage teams that won their first two games to actually try their third game and not just rest players (i.e. more games matter). No potential collusion (the US knew it that if it advanced it was gonna get someone from group A, also see Spain). Continue to guarantee teams at least 3 games.
Cons: Winning a group doesn't guarantee a R16 appearance. Some group runners up will be matched up with others while some will have to face group winners. You have the potential to have a rematch with someone from your group before the Championship/3rd place game (although fun fact, for two WCs in a row the third place match will feature two teams from the same group). The number of games it takes to win the tournament is not the same for everyone.
There's just no easy way to do a 48 team tournament. 3 team groups just don't work, and personally I hate the idea of letting a third place team from a group qualify for the knockouts. I know why they me$$ed with a perfect 32 team format, but its gonna be messy regardless.
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Epic? Or a little dull as the teams play not to lose?
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Epic? Or a little dull as the teams play not to lose?
Not how these teams play
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... and you have Messi coming inside...
Beavis and Butthead laugh
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Are penalty kicks usually automatic? That looked like Novak at the FT line.
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Many games have. been decided by penalty kicks. The goalie who stops 2 out of 5 is usually a hero.
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Many games have. been decided by penalty kicks. The goalie who stops 2 out of 5 is usually a hero.
Correct.
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Pretty dominant half from the Argentines.
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Pretty dominant half from the Argentines.
Undoubtedly. France played like there was another game next week. Pulling one of their best scorers (Giroud) early was... interesting.
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You can tell Messi is different. Even as an every four year viewer. He's retiring?
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You can tell Messi is different. Even as an every four year viewer. He's retiring?
Eventually
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You can tell Messi is different. Even as an every four year viewer. He's retiring?
Yeah Messi is great, and water is wet. He's 35. If he were to come back for the next WC he'd be 39. No reason for him to come back. Nothing to prove to anyone. Why come back as a player who will have clearly lost a step by then?
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Yeah Messi is great, and water is wet. He's 35. If he were to come back for the next WC he'd be 39. No reason for him to come back. Nothing to prove to anyone. Why come back as a player who will have clearly lost a step by then?
He seems to have more natural talent than these other guys. His passing appears to be at a different level.
Dumb penalty there.
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He seems to have more natural talent than these other guys. His passing appears to be at a different level.
Dumb penalty there.
Incredibly foolish foul.
Messi is a complete player. Scoring, passing, just general awareness. He's very well loved by pretty much everyone who enjoys the sport.
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Oh...boy.
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LFG!
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Watching this final, it's apparent that the USMNT is nowhere close to winning a WC.
The skill level on these teams vs USMNT is night and day.
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Watching this final, it's apparent that the USMNT is nowhere close to winning a WC.
The skill level on these teams vs USMNT is night and day.
Yup. And it's kinda interesting to think about how it is just the inverse for the USWNT
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Title IX
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GOAL!!!!!!!
GOAL!!!!!!!
GOAL!!!!!!!!
🐐?
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Epic? Or a little dull as the teams play not to lose?
Epic.
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Another dumb penalty.
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Epic.
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HAT
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What a match. Wish it didn't have to go to pens.
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Only missing a Zidane head butt
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Many games have. been decided by penalty kicks. The goalie who stops 2 out of 5 is usually a hero.
Bump
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Correct.
Bump
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I have to admit that was rather compelling. I'm not sure about "greatest sporting event ever" but it was fun to watch.
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Martinez>Messi for Motm
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I have to admit that was rather compelling. I'm not sure about "greatest sporting event ever" but it was fun to watch.
I guarantee the entire world was watching. World wide, far huger than the Super Bowl.
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Did anyone see Martinez with his trophy!?!
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Such a bummer, that Argentina team is so unlikeable.
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(https://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/world-cup/2022/12/18/TELEMMGLPICT000320105964_trans_NvBQzQNjv4Bq8kuxyxLI6tJ7u4TpovfSFigBJYXCYshDBDGomwEsgQU.jpeg?imwidth=960)
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I guarantee the entire world was watching. World wide, far huger than the Super Bowl.
Number of viewers is different than "greatest".
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Number of viewers is different than "greatest".
More sporting fans across the world will call that a greater spectacle than they will the Super Bowl
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More sporting fans across the world will call that a greater spectacle than they will the Super Bowl
And they wouldn’t be wrong. That was among the greatest games ever played.
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Muggsy, I know futbol is not your thing. It is the thing for the rest of the planet. This game had two countries with long and glorious histories. It had two of the best players alive having magic moments. It had spectacular goaltending down the stretch. It had comebacks and extra time goals. Billions of people will be talking about this game to their grandchildren.
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Argentina (particularly Mac Allister and de Paul) did a great job starving Mbappe of service for the first 75 minutes by swallowing Griezmann. But for the last 42 minutes Mbappe was pure terror. Arguably one of the greatest performances ever seen in a Final with his second goal pure unicorn.
Because the game went beserk Di Maria is an afterthought but he was very very good in the game and made Scaloni look smart by selecting him.
Thought Camavinga did a good job shadowing Messi majority of his time. He and Tchouameni along with Mbappe and Maignan have France strong up and down the middle. Griezmann's got some time left but finding a credible string-puller will be key.
Final note that Lloris save in the 97th and Martinez save in the 120th were both worthy of drool.
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Muggsy, I know futbol is not your thing. It is the thing for the rest of the planet. This game had two countries with long and glorious histories. It had two of the best players alive having magic moments. It had spectacular goaltending down the stretch. It had comebacks and extra time goals. Billions of people will be talking about this game to their grandchildren.
I don't disagree with that and maybe it's semantics. When I think of "greatest" sporting events ever I look at the quality of play, the odds of both teams or players, and the overall drama. Not how many people watch. Granted I don't know futbol well at all but for example the 1980 USA Olympic hockey win over the USSR most would consider among the greatest sporting events ever. I wasn't born, many people knew nothing about hockey at the time, and yet it's forever etched in our memories as Americans. Futbol is by far the most popular sport in the world so the question is will that match provide lasting memories to those outside of Argentina or France?
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I confess that I’m not a soccer fan. I didn’t play it growing up, high schools in my area didn’t even have teams.
When I watched my kids play I thought it was boring. Well, I’m still not knowledgeable and not a fan, but that game today was amazing - riveting even. Way better than any American football game I’ve seen this season.
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I don't disagree with that and maybe it's semantics. When I think of "greatest" sporting events ever I look at the quality of play, the odds of both teams or players, and the overall drama. Not how many people watch.
If you are using those subjective terms as metrics, you are just going to get a list of highly personalized opinions. The 1980 Olympic game is a great example. It was wonderful, but shown on tape-delay, and no one outside the United States really cares. Yet, there may be some falconry contest in Mongolia that meant just as much to the participants as that game meant to the United States.
So it becomes a rather meaningless excercise.
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If you are using those subjective terms as metrics, you are just going to get a list of highly personalized opinions. The 1980 Olympic game is a great example. It was wonderful, but shown on tape-delay, and no one outside the United States really cares. Yet, there may be some falconry contest in Mongolia that meant just as much to the participants as that game meant to the United States.
So it becomes a rather meaningless excercise.
Well my son's 5th grade basketball team lost 56-12 earlier to a team, but beat them in the county championship.
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While I am not a soccer fan, that was a fantastic, exciting sport event. I jumped out of my chair a couple of times in OT.
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I do not like the sport. I watch the World Cup every four years because my wife is from Argentina and for her and her family it is a huge deal and she puts up with me watching a lot of baseball and basketball. I also work with a bunch of people from all over the world and get caught up in it because of their enthusiasm.
I watched Maradona-led Argentina blow a 2-0 late and beat the Germans 3-2 in the WC final in 1986 a year after we got married and thought, "that was a good watch." I've watched every WC since (at least until AR gets bounced, anyway) and have been decidedly underwhelmed/bored until yesterday.
That was a genuinely fun/epic game. To me, the save by the Argentine keeper late was miraculous.
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What was amazing, and I think has been overlooked, is that Argentina came right back down after that save and had a REALLY good scoring chance at the end. But an awful header just didn't put the ball on net.
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Muggsy, 4 billion people watched the final.
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Well this Danielle Reyna news isn't making her and Claudio, let alone Gio, look too good. She reports domestic violence regarding coach Berhalter that occurred 30 years ago to US soccer federation over complaints regarding her son's playing time in Qatar. If she was so concerned about the incident, why did she wait so long to report it?