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Author Topic: Vote!  (Read 7194 times)

tower912

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Re: Vote!
« Reply #125 on: November 09, 2022, 01:49:48 PM »
I think the R 2024 presidential candidates and Desantis in particular are going to have a fascinating needle to thread.   How do you beat Trump in the primary without alienating the MAGA wing or the independents?   Going to need both in the general.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

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MU82

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Re: Vote!
« Reply #126 on: November 09, 2022, 01:50:56 PM »
The red wave should have been a given.  The fact that it wasn’t is quite shocking to me.  I don’t know if this an anomaly or a new norm.  I’d lean anomaly but what happens next week when the biggest loser from last night announces his decision will be informative

In the last 4 years, he lost the House, lost the presidency (and lost it dozens of times, if one counts all the court decisions against his yuge lie), lost the Senate, lost the House again, now perhaps lost the Senate again, and played a role in several GOP gubernatorial losses. Not to mention the loss of stature the United States suffered on the international stage because we have millions of people willing to worship a dictator-wannabe who staged a violent coup attempt against his own country.

Wow! Those who say he didn't accomplish anything are wrong. The man accomplished a ton -- of losing!

And yet so many in the party -- not just the base, but also party leaders -- still bend the knee to him. They can't afford to lose his whack-job voters, but he has emerged as a cancer to the party overall. Quite the pickle.

I agree with this.  Actions will speak louder than words.  Now is the time for the party to cut all ties with Trump

Well, the time for the party to cut all times with him was Jan. 6, 2021, and its aftermath.

It's amazing to go back today and re-read what so many Republicans were saying on 1/6/21. Graham was THROUGH with him! McCarthy was gonna tell him to resign! McConnell was thisclose to voting to convict!

The time to cut out the cancer was right then and there. But they lacked the political courage to do what was right for America -- and for their own party. So now they are saddled with the elephant who sucks the air out of every room. Piss him off enough and you lose the support of millions upon millions of cultists. Show blind devotion to him and a majority of independents -- a larger voting bloc than either R's or D's -- will vote Dem even when inflation is at a multi-decade high.

As you said, this should have been a slam-dunk red wave ... except that orange overwhelmed red.
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MuggsyB

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Re: Vote!
« Reply #127 on: November 09, 2022, 01:58:55 PM »
I think the R 2024 presidential candidates and Desantis in particular are going to have a fascinating needle to thread.   How do you beat Trump in the primary without alienating the MAGA wing or the independents?   Going to need both in the general.

It's a huge problem for him. He's going to have to find a way to mobilize indy voters to his side in swing states.  And he cannot win the nomination without Ohio. 

mu_hilltopper

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Re: Vote!
« Reply #128 on: November 09, 2022, 02:03:50 PM »
Dream scenario : DeSantis beats Trump for the GOP nomination. 

Trump launches campaign as an Independent.

Billy Hoyle

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Re: Vote!
« Reply #129 on: November 09, 2022, 02:07:00 PM »
I'd add Tim Ryan to that list.

My preference right now is Gov Jaren Polis of Colorado. A pragmatic moderate who is dominating in a purple state, winning reelection by 17% last night.

It seems like the GOP is FINALLY realizing Trump is toxic. The problem is someone needs to have the balls to stand up to him. Look at Pennsylvania - a brain-damaged guy with a racist past was seen the superior candidate to Trump's choice (who was a terrible candidate). As for DeSantis, Trump sees the writing on the wall as he started attacking him last week, giving him the nickname "DeSanctimonius." When Trump goes full 2nd grade bully, you know that person is seen as a threat to him. Plenty of right leaning friends and family of mine voted against any Trump backed, election denying candidate. Hopefully, he'll be convicted and jailed soon.
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MuggsyB

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Re: Vote!
« Reply #130 on: November 09, 2022, 02:09:07 PM »
Dream scenario : DeSantis beats Trump for the GOP nomination. 

Trump launches campaign as an Independent.

Then the Dem candidate would win easily.

TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: Vote!
« Reply #131 on: November 09, 2022, 02:12:08 PM »
Then the Dem candidate would win easily.

Exactly  ;D

Dream scenario : DeSantis beats Trump for the GOP nomination. 

Trump launches campaign as an Independent.

I think a better dream would be a more moderate candidate beats Trump and DeSantis for the nomination. I think it could lead to the creation of a legitimate third party in between Maga and Dems. I mean likely not, but a guy can dream!
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Jockey

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Re: Vote!
« Reply #132 on: November 09, 2022, 02:21:45 PM »
I still say that trump is not running again. I could well be proven wrong, but Dems can’t get lucky enough for him to be on the ticket.

After last night a lot of Rs are gonna tell him no - even if they are too cowardly to say it publicly.

mu_hilltopper

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Re: Vote!
« Reply #133 on: November 09, 2022, 02:23:22 PM »
Then the Dem candidate would win easily.

I hadn't thought of that!  By golly, I think you're right.

mu_hilltopper

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Re: Vote!
« Reply #134 on: November 09, 2022, 02:29:36 PM »
I still say that trump is not running again. I could well be proven wrong, but Dems can’t get lucky enough for him to be on the ticket.

After last night a lot of Rs are gonna tell him no - even if they are too cowardly to say it publicly.

Thing is, "a lot of Rs are gonna tell him no.."  but he's got a total lock on a minimum of 50% of the GOP base.   He could murder a bus full of nuns with puppies and those folks would still vote for him.   

DeSantis could be endorsed by Jesus and it wouldn't matter.

I think Trump 100% runs, beginning next week, maybe sooner.  And he'll announce it on DeSantis' front lawn.

tower912

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Re: Vote!
« Reply #135 on: November 09, 2022, 02:30:42 PM »
An R like Hogan of Maryland, if he could get out of the primary, would be very dangerous in the general.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

Jockey

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Re: Vote!
« Reply #136 on: November 09, 2022, 02:34:10 PM »
An R like Hogan of Maryland, if he could get out of the primary, would be very dangerous in the general.

Absolutely. The Independents - who decide the race love centrists.

Pakuni

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Re: Vote!
« Reply #137 on: November 09, 2022, 02:35:27 PM »

It seems like the GOP is FINALLY realizing Trump is toxic. The problem is someone needs to have the balls to stand up to him. Look at Pennsylvania - a brain-damaged guy with a racist past was seen the superior candidate to Trump's choice (who was a terrible candidate). As for DeSantis, Trump sees the writing on the wall as he started attacking him last week, giving him the nickname "DeSanctimonius." When Trump goes full 2nd grade bully, you know that person is seen as a threat to him. Plenty of right leaning friends and family of mine voted against any Trump backed, election denying candidate. Hopefully, he'll be convicted and jailed soon.

The GOP has known Trump is toxic for years, but a large majority of their voters do not. And while anything is possible, it's hard to imagine enough of them changing their minds over the next 18 months to make him a non-factor. Polling within the last week still shows Trump crushing DeSantis by 25+ points in a hypothetical primary matchup. Yesterday's results may ding Trump a bit and give DeSantis a boost, but 25 points is a lot to make up when you're dealing with a base as loyal as Trump's. These aren't "I like that guy" voters. They're "Let's storm the Capitol for that guy" voters.
The Republicans and their media ecosystem built a monster and now it's eating them.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2022, 02:39:58 PM by Pakuni »

Babybluejeans

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Re: Vote!
« Reply #138 on: November 09, 2022, 02:53:23 PM »
Would love to see a centrist 3rd party form from the ashes of the GOP that DJT turned away from conservative principles into an unrecognizable authoritarian populist party.

I think the "silent majority" that the media won't stop talking about are, in reality, neither modern conservatives nor liberals. They're the people who relish rationality that's so absent in politics and culture--fiscal responsibility and more localized government on the one hand, with equal rights and workable social safety nets on the other. Taking those values but removing the authoritarian politics (coming from the right) and speech-silencing Simpsons mob (coming from the left).

I think such a party would have real opportunities in a lot of purplish house districts, and can then wield power as moderating forces in order for the GOP or Dems to get legislation passed. 

MuggsyB

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Re: Vote!
« Reply #139 on: November 09, 2022, 02:55:36 PM »
I hadn't thought of that!  By golly, I think you're right.

Then how is that the "ideal scenario," when 75% of the country thinks we're going in the wrong direction?  Unless we get a true moderate Dem this would be the path to utter disaster.  And brother dgies' final 4 are inexcusably AWFUL.  Get rid of Trump, get rid of these far left clowns, and let's start over or let me run the country with total authority.  :)

Galway Eagle

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Re: Vote!
« Reply #140 on: November 09, 2022, 02:59:34 PM »
Would love to see a centrist 3rd party form from the ashes of the GOP that DJT turned away from conservative principles into an unrecognizable authoritarian populist party.

I think the "silent majority" that the media won't stop talking about are, in reality, neither modern conservatives nor liberals. They're the people who relish rationality that's so absent in politics and culture--fiscal responsibility and more localized government on the one hand, with equal rights and workable social safety nets on the other. Taking those values but removing the authoritarian politics (coming from the right) and speech-silencing Simpsons mob (coming from the left).

I think such a party would have real opportunities in a lot of purplish house districts, and can then wield power as moderating forces in order for the GOP or Dems to get legislation passed.

Couldn't happen, social issues are way too polarizing. I do agree you're it's likely a silent majority but when it's distilled down you end up with even this large group, that agrees on a ton, pointing fingers and hating each other over things like sex Ed, abortion, LGBTQ rights, etc.
Maigh Eo for Sam

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Re: Vote!
« Reply #141 on: November 09, 2022, 03:01:09 PM »
But was anyone talking about him as being on the short or even medium-list for nominees in November of 1990?

Yes. Which is something you cut out of my quote. Not a first tier favorite, but a rising star most certainly.
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Re: Vote!
« Reply #142 on: November 09, 2022, 03:04:17 PM »
Then how is that the "ideal scenario," when 75% of the country thinks we're going in the wrong direction?  Unless we get a true moderate Dem this would be the path to utter disaster.  And brother dgies' final 4 are inexcusably AWFUL.  Get rid of Trump, get rid of these far left clowns, and let's start over or let me run the country with total authority.  :)


I think it's kinda funny that people don't view Joe Biden as a "moderate Dem."  He is about as moderate as a Democrat gets.

And if inflation eases and the economy doesn't tank, those 75% will turn around pretty quickly.
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TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: Vote!
« Reply #143 on: November 09, 2022, 03:05:06 PM »
Then how is that the "ideal scenario," when 75% of the country thinks we're going in the wrong direction?  Unless we get a true moderate Dem this would be the path to utter disaster.  And brother dgies' final 4 are inexcusably AWFUL.  Get rid of Trump, get rid of these far left clowns, and let's start over or let me run the country with total authority.  :)

Biden is as about as moderate as they come Muggsy. Keep in mind that on the world stage, America sits to the right already. The problem is that half the country has been conned into thinking that all Democrats are far left. And if you have a problem with brother Dgies' list, why don't you tell us who you think would be good decmocratic candidates? My guess is that you would poo poo anyone with a D next to their name.
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Pakuni

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Re: Vote!
« Reply #144 on: November 09, 2022, 03:07:06 PM »
Trump just posted this on his social media site.

"Now that the Election in Florida is over and everything went quite well, shouldn't it be said that in 2020, I got 1.1 million more votes in Florida than Ron D got this year, 5.7 million to 4.6 million? Just asking?"


This League!

TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: Vote!
« Reply #145 on: November 09, 2022, 03:09:44 PM »
Would love to see a centrist 3rd party form from the ashes of the GOP that DJT turned away from conservative principles into an unrecognizable authoritarian populist party.

I think the "silent majority" that the media won't stop talking about are, in reality, neither modern conservatives nor liberals. They're the people who relish rationality that's so absent in politics and culture--fiscal responsibility and more localized government on the one hand, with equal rights and workable social safety nets on the other. Taking those values but removing the authoritarian politics (coming from the right) and speech-silencing Simpsons mob (coming from the left).

I think such a party would have real opportunities in a lot of purplish house districts, and can then wield power as moderating forces in order for the GOP or Dems to get legislation passed.

I think we desperately need a third party to emerge for the non-Maga republicans, centrists, and moderate democrats. Unfortunately I think Galway is right. We've turned politics into a team sport where candidates are expected to be in lock step with the party. Any dissent in the party ranks is quickly crushed. A centrist party would have to be comfortable with allowing their membership to vote freely and to openly disagree with each other even at the expense of the party. The social issues are just too polarizing.
TAMU

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Jockey

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Re: Vote!
« Reply #146 on: November 09, 2022, 03:13:18 PM »
Would love to see a centrist 3rd party form from the ashes of the GOP that DJT turned away from conservative principles into an unrecognizable authoritarian populist party.

I think the "silent majority" that the media won't stop talking about are, in reality, neither modern conservatives nor liberals. They're the people who relish rationality that's so absent in politics and culture--fiscal responsibility and more localized government on the one hand, with equal rights and workable social safety nets on the other. Taking those values but removing the authoritarian politics (coming from the right) and speech-silencing Simpsons mob (coming from the left).

I think such a party would have real opportunities in a lot of purplish house districts, and can then wield power as moderating forces in order for the GOP or Dems to get legislation passed.

Pay attention.

What you propose has already happened. Most people won’t care. Or even realize it has happened already.
« Last Edit: November 09, 2022, 03:16:22 PM by Jockey »

JWags85

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Re: Vote!
« Reply #147 on: November 09, 2022, 03:13:25 PM »
Got it.

And to your later remarks, Michels was a terrible candidate. but, so was Barnes. Both those races were there for the taking if better candidates were running.

I was chatting with 2 of my good friends during coverage last night.  Both Ohio natives, both spent long spells of time in Chicago like me, one is now in So Cal the other back in Columbus.  We were chatting about how terrible some of the races were. 

Wisconsin came up beyond just my residency.  How Evers isn't great but Michels was a horrible candidate.  How Ron Johnson...is Ron Johnson but yet Barnes was a terrible polarizing candidate as well.  The only race we saw as equally damned if you do, damned if you don't was the aforementioned Fetterman/Oz debacle.   A decent R candidate probably destroys Fetterman, even before the stroke, but you get Trumpy snake oil Oz and there you go.

Similarly, plenty of people not thrilled or in love with Pritzker in Illinois.  But he runs against a numnut MAGA candidate and absolutely rolls

MuggsyB

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Re: Vote!
« Reply #148 on: November 09, 2022, 03:14:18 PM »
Biden is as about as moderate as they come Muggsy. Keep in mind that on the world stage, America sits to the right already. The problem is that half the country has been conned into thinking that all Democrats are far left. And if you have a problem with brother Dgies' list, why don't you tell us who you think would be good decmocratic candidates? My guess is that you would poo poo anyone with a D next to their name.

Khanna or Klobuchar.  Biden is not governing as a moderate and also has no idea what day it is 70% of the time.  His "gaffes" are a euphemism for senility/dementia. 

Jockey

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Re: Vote!
« Reply #149 on: November 09, 2022, 03:18:05 PM »
Khanna or Klobuchar.  Biden is not governing as a moderate and also has no idea what day it is 70% of the time.  His "gaffes" are a euphemism for senility/dementia.

You are truly a moron. And a liar.

 

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