2022-23 NCAA Men's Basketball Thread

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Kind of feels like getting their ass kicked at home by a team that had lost 8 of 10 shouldn't lock them into a spot above us.

He didn't mention Baylor at all. Not in the locked in above us category or in the "one 2 seed for 3 teams" category. If you want to say they aren't locked in above us, fine, I don't agree, but I can at least see the argument. There's no way you can argue that they aren't even in contention for a 2 seed.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

KSU should not be ahead of us. Gonzaga ahead of us would be a complete joke. Baylor maybe depending on the Big 12 Tourney. But I'll stick with 2 more wins post Butler (so now 1 more win) gets us a 2 seed.

Arizona and Baylor are both still ahead of us. What happens if they win the P12 and B12 tournaments? What if Tennessee wins the SEC tournament? What if K-State wins the B12 tournament and Baylor is the runner up? Still think beating Butler or St. John's is going to seal it?

You can't just look at what we do. You have to pay attention to what the other teams do. We don't control our own destiny for a 2 seed.

[GoldenEagles03]

Arizona and Baylor are both still ahead of us. What happens if they win the P12 and B12 tournaments? What if Tennessee wins the SEC tournament? What if K-State wins the B12 tournament and Baylor is the runner up? Still think beating Butler or St. John's is going to seal it?

You can't just look at what we do. You have to pay attention to what the other teams do. We don't control our own destiny for a 2 seed.

I understand Quadrants and all, but at some point 25-6 just has to overshadow 22-9 or 22-10.

Marquette has proven they can beat anybody and the 25-6,  17-3 record is damn impressive in this league.

I'd have em as a 2, but understand they are probably just about locked as a 3.

[JWags85]

Arizona and Baylor are both still ahead of us. What happens if they win the P12 and B12 tournaments? What if Tennessee wins the SEC tournament? What if K-State wins the B12 tournament and Baylor is the runner up? Still think beating Butler or St. John's is going to seal it?

You can't just look at what we do. You have to pay attention to what the other teams do. We don't control our own destiny for a 2 seed.

I'm not sure I agree.  Zona is 3-3 in their last 6 and only tonight against UCLA was a decent loss.  That Stanford loss is horrific.

And Baylor?  They lost 3 of 5.  Down the stretch.

If both run deep in the conference tourney, sure. But both have been trash down the stretch compared to MU

[JWags85]

USF/Santa Clara was a really fun game

[wisblue]

Is Pitt out too? Firmly on the bubble.

Just an observation but on ESPN, the title of a Miami v Pitt game is "Miami storms the court after upsetting No. 25 Pitt,"

#16 Miami was an 8 pint favorite at home and lead the entire 2nd half.

The headline should have been

"Miami storms court after winning share of ACC title with win over Pitt".

I assume it was the conference championship (probably a first for Miami) that triggered the celebration. Pitt just happened to be the opponent.

[MuggsyB]

I'm not sure I agree.  Zona is 3-3 in their last 6 and only tonight against UCLA was a decent loss.  That Stanford loss is horrific.

And Baylor?  They lost 3 of 5.  Down the stretch.

If both run deep in the conference tourney, sure. But both have been trash down the stretch compared to MU

I tend to agree with this and will take it a step further:  If MU wins out I think it's probable we get a 2 seed.  My overall take is that Houston, Kansas, UCLA, Tex, and Alabama are not going to drop past us.  But after that the potential 2 seeds all could fall to a 3.  The B12 will not get four top 8 seeds.  The question is will they get three?  In order for that to happen I think either Baylor or K.State has to win the B12 tournament.

So what we have is either two spots or three spots open on the 2 line.  I know people seem to just pencil in Purdue as a lock but I wouldn't assume that at all.  If they lose today and don't win a few games in the B14 tournament I could absolutely see them kicked to a 3.  Zona imo is not in a better position than MU.  They are in a weaker conf and will need to win the P-12 tournament

Marquette controls it's own destiny Scoopers.  I could honestly care less about computer numbers.  It's simply not conceivable to me that we could finish our season with one loss in over a month and not usurp a #2 seed.  The last 10 games or so matter. 

[The Sultan]

I understand Quadrants and all, but at some point 25-6 just has to overshadow 22-9 or 22-10.

That's not how this works.

[wisblue]

I understand Quadrants and all, but at some point 25-6 just has to overshadow 22-9 or 22-10.

Where would you draw the line on this?

Only teams from power conferences?

And then what when a conference has a relatively down year like the ACC.

Do you rate Miami with its 24-6 record ahead of some of those teams with 9 or 10 losses just because of the number of losses.

[HowardsWorld]

That's not how this works.

At some point it has to. If not have Marqutte play Kansas 30 times and when they go 15 and 15 they get a 1 seed. The formula is absurd if Baylor has 4 more losses and loses the tiebreaker by 30 points and still gets a better seed. I can see the argument with Texas but cannot with Baylor.

[The Sultan]

At some point it has to. If not have Marqutte play Kansas 30 times and when they go 15 and 15 they get a 1 seed. The formula is absurd if Baylor has 4 more losses and loses the tiebreaker by 30 points and still gets a better seed. I can see the argument with Texas but cannot with Baylor.

Again, it is very clear why these teams are seeded higher. Either people aren't understanding this or just don't want to hear it, but it is clear if people have been paying attention.

[HowardsWorld]

Again, it is very clear why these teams are seeded higher. Either people aren't understanding this or just don't want to hear it, but it is clear if people have been paying attention.

I understand the logic behind it. However, when given 2x the amount of chances to compile Q1 wins in the big12 as you are in the Big East, you are goin get more wins. Like I posted in the other thread if you are never penalized for losing a game for a q1 team but shoot up a seed like for winning vs a q1 team theres no way any team can every pass you.

[The Sultan]

The Big 12 is a much more difficult conference because the bottom of the Big East is horrible. Their teams shouldn't be penalized for that.

[fjm]

I understand Quadrants and all, but at some point 25-6 just has to overshadow 22-9 or 22-10.

Marquette has proven they can beat anybody and the 25-6,  17-3 record is damn impressive in this league.

I'd have em as a 2, but understand they are probably just about locked as a 3.

So Charleston should be a 1 seed?

[willie warrior]

The Big 12 is a much more difficult conference because the bottom of the Big East is horrible. Their teams shouldn't be penalized for that.

Yes, maybe. There are a couple of dogs in BEast. But aside from GT, are any of our dogs that much worse than the bottom 3 or 4 in Big 12.

[The Sultan]

Yes, maybe. There are a couple of dogs in BEast. But aside from GT, are any of our dogs that much worse than the bottom 3 or 4 in Big 12.

By NET ranking, Seton Hall, Villanova, St. John's, Butler, De Paul and Georgetown all are below the bottom team from the Big 12 - Oklahoma.

[IrwinFletcher]

By NET ranking, Seton Hall, Villanova, St. John's, Butler, De Paul and Georgetown all are below the bottom team from the Big 12 - Oklahoma.

An Oklahoma team that has 6 Q1 wins including spanking #2 Alabama.  Their worst loss was to #70 Villanova in Philly by 4 points.  Their next worst to #59 Sam Houston State.

BE bottom is nowhere near the B12 bottom.

The fact that people still don't understand how this works is amazing to me.  Last 5, 8 or 10 games don't matter anymore so you can do away with recent records or what have you.

Marquette is locked into a 3 seed and maybe would should be thrilled with that.

[MuggsyB]

Yes, maybe. There are a couple of dogs in BEast. But aside from GT, are any of our dogs that much worse than the bottom 3 or 4 in Big 12.

The B12 is much better at the bottom than the BEast.  However, MU beat Baylor by like 100 points.  If the committee has to decide between us and them I don't see how they can choose Baylor. 

[The Sultan]

If it's between us and Baylor for the last 2 seed, the differences in opponents in the first two rounds won't be much and we'd have the chance to prove the committee wrong in the Sweet 16. This really isn't worth worrying about.

[MuggsyB]

If it's between us and Baylor for the last 2 seed, the differences in opponents in the first two rounds won't be much and we'd have the chance to prove the committee wrong in the Sweet 16. This really isn't worth worrying about.

It could be significant in 1st rd but after that it doesn't really matter. 

[The Sultan]

It could be significant in 1st rd but after that it doesn't really matter. 

It would be the difference between the highest ranked 15th and lowest ranked 14th. Not significant at all.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I'm not sure I agree.  Zona is 3-3 in their last 6 and only tonight against UCLA was a decent loss.  That Stanford loss is horrific.

And Baylor?  They lost 3 of 5.  Down the stretch.

If both run deep in the conference tourney, sure. But both have been trash down the stretch compared to MU

You can keep adding criteria that the committee doesn't look at in seeding but it doesn't change the fact that they smoke us in most of the criteria that they actually consider.

[JakeBarnes]

I understand Quadrants and all, but at some point 25-6 just has to overshadow 22-9 or 22-10.

Buzz agrees. That's why he plays a 250 noncon SOS every year.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I understand Quadrants and all, but at some point 25-6 just has to overshadow 22-9 or 22-10.

Marquette has proven they can beat anybody and the 25-6,  17-3 record is damn impressive in this league.

I'd have em as a 2, but understand they are probably just about locked as a 3.

You know we are ahead of several teams that have better metrics than us but worse win loss records right? UConn comes to mind. So there is a point, but Baylor and Texas are past that point.

[CountryRoads]

If it's between us and Baylor for the last 2 seed, the differences in opponents in the first two rounds won't be much and we'd have the chance to prove the committee wrong in the Sweet 16. This really isn't worth worrying about.

I'd prefer MU gets in Louisville first and foremost even at the expense of getting a 3 seed. NYC may be a good spot also since we'd have just played games there.

Kansas City will be a hornet's nest and we'd be a fish out of water in Vegas so getting a 2 in either of those regions doesn't do all that much for me.