Another mass shooting-Greenwood Indiana

[Uncle Rico]

I am dealing with it. I'm advocating that anyone who commits ANY Felony while armed, receive a life sentence with no possibility for parole.

That'll stop them.

[NCMUFan]

Lock him up

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQXOHsHkJV4

[Uncle Rico]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQXOHsHkJV4

Lock him up

[MUBurrow]

Burrow states good guys with guns=OK for people to needlessly lose lives=to me that means all guns are bad.

I mentioned it in a previous (locked) thread, and it probably won't matter, but this is an error of logic built on favoring narrative over statistics.  If a person believes that what stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun, then when faced with a mass shooting, logically that person explains a cause of that shooting to be the absence of a good guy with a gun.  Therefore the answer to gun violence would be to arm more good guys.  This is great if your dad is a door-to-door gun salesman, but it ignores the wealth of available statistics that show the greatest predictor of gun violence is gun prevalence. 

So if you believe the answer to bad guys with guns is good guys with guns, you believe in more guns.  And given that data shows that more guns = more gun deaths, if you subcribe to the good guys with guns theory, then you are okay with more people needlessly losing their lives.

[jesmu84]

I am dealing with it. I'm advocating that anyone who commits ANY Felony while armed, receive a life sentence with no possibility for parole.

Why?

Many here have already pointed out that laws or punishments like you've suggested won't stop evil people from doing bad things.

[wadesworld]

I've been in Canada for the past 12 days. It's been pretty refreshing not hearing about someone being a hero for shooting and killing someone, because that person was shooting and killing more people.

The idea that America doesn't have a gun problem is wild.

[NCMUFan]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway_of_Tears

[TSmith34, Inc.]

For all you whiners and bitchers, the Second Amendment has been around for 200+ years. Deal with it.

Weapons from 200 years ago? Cool, carry'em as much as you'd like.

[Pakuni]

I am dealing with it. I'm advocating that anyone who commits ANY Felony while armed, receive a life sentence with no possibility for parole.

Criminals don't care about laws.
Also, enjoy the massive tax hike. Incarceration ain't cheap.

[cheebs09]

For all you whiners and bitchers, the Second Amendment has been around for 200+ years. Deal with it.

Apologies for trying to find ways to get the USA out of the runaway leader in gun deaths spot. I have a hunch the founders would have felt something needed to change with the interpretation of the Second Amendment when confronted with this problem.

[Pakuni]

Back to the topic at hand:

But Dicken's act, though heroic, was also a statistical unicorn. An examination of 433 active shooter attacks in the United States between 2000 and 2021 showed that only 22 ended with a bystander shooting an attacker, according to data from the Advanced Law Enforcement Rapid Response Training Center at Texas State University. In 10 of those cases, the armed bystander was a security guard or off-duty law enforcement officer. In other encounters, civilians attempting to step in and stop an assailant were themselves shot to death by police.
"It is exceedingly rare, the exception rather than the rule," Adam Skaggs, chief counsel and policy director at the Giffords Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence, said of scenarios like the one in Indiana. "The reality is that more people carrying guns means more conflicts escalating into deadly violence and more people being shot and killed."

https://www.yahoo.com/news/indiana-mall-shooting-one-hero-114208727.html

[Goose]

For the first time in my life, I found myself a little less proud of being an American last week while in Scotland. In having friendly discussions with some of the locals the mass shootings were brought up in every conversation and they knew of all of them or so it seemed. For almost 59 years I have always found a silver lining or spin to the USA's shortcomings, but I literally was at a loss of words. That said, I take solace that every person felt horribly that shootings were happening and were hoping for better days ahead in the USA. The USA needs to get our act together and get it done quickly or we might be at a crossroad that divides us for a long time.

[brewcity77]

Back to the topic at hand:

But Dicken's act, though heroic, was also a statistical unicorn. An examination of 433 active shooter attacks in the United States between 2000 and 2021 showed that only 22 ended with a bystander shooting an attacker, according to data from the Advanced Law Enforcement Rapid Response Training Center at Texas State University. In 10 of those cases, the armed bystander was a security guard or off-duty law enforcement officer. In other encounters, civilians attempting to step in and stop an assailant were themselves shot to death by police.
"It is exceedingly rare, the exception rather than the rule," Adam Skaggs, chief counsel and policy director at the Giffords Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence, said of scenarios like the one in Indiana. "The reality is that more people carrying guns means more conflicts escalating into deadly violence and more people being shot and killed."

https://www.yahoo.com/news/indiana-mall-shooting-one-hero-114208727.html

And yet this event will be the gun porn that the NRA and gun owners everywhere use to justify why they have to have their guns.

[lawdog77]

And yet this event will be the gun porn that the NRA and gun owners everywhere use to justify why they have to have their guns.

Individuals don't need this to justify having guns. There are plenty of studies out there that show hundreds of thousands if not millions of crimes are prevented by having a gun.
One study showed Of the 2,500,000 annual self-defense cases using guns, more than 7.7% (192,500) are by women defending themselves against sexual abuse.
Another study showed the number of times per year an American uses a firearm to deter a home invasion alone is 498,000.

Do most think that there needs to be better gun control/gun management laws? Hell yeah.

[JWags85]

Back to the topic at hand:

But Dicken's act, though heroic, was also a statistical unicorn. An examination of 433 active shooter attacks in the United States between 2000 and 2021 showed that only 22 ended with a bystander shooting an attacker, according to data from the Advanced Law Enforcement Rapid Response Training Center at Texas State University. In 10 of those cases, the armed bystander was a security guard or off-duty law enforcement officer. In other encounters, civilians attempting to step in and stop an assailant were themselves shot to death by police.
"It is exceedingly rare, the exception rather than the rule," Adam Skaggs, chief counsel and policy director at the Giffords Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence, said of scenarios like the one in Indiana. "The reality is that more people carrying guns means more conflicts escalating into deadly violence and more people being shot and killed."

https://www.yahoo.com/news/indiana-mall-shooting-one-hero-114208727.html

The point lost on most people that use this as a shining example is the dude wasn't stopped by a civilian carrying an AR-15.  So the vast majority of commonly agreed upon gun legislation wouldn't curb the "good" in this story. 

[lawdog77]

I'm not sure on the semantics involved, but weapons are not permitted at this mall. So, a law-abiding citizen should not have had one.

Yeah, he was still legally carrying a gun. The mall had a policy of no guns, so if someone would have asked him to leave, and he did not,  it would have been trespassing. Since nobody did, he was completely legal.

[brewcity77]

Individuals don't need this to justify having guns. There are plenty of studies out there that show hundreds of thousands if not millions of crimes are prevented by having a gun.
One study showed Of the 2,500,000 annual self-defense cases using guns, more than 7.7% (192,500) are by women defending themselves against sexual abuse.
Another study showed the number of times per year an American uses a firearm to deter a home invasion alone is 498,000.

Do most think that there needs to be better gun control/gun management laws? Hell yeah.

You sound like the "Guns don't kill people, I do" guy from UHF. This isn't enough gun porn, so you're trying to expose more of it. Adding lethal measures to a situation doesn't make those involved safer.

[4everwarriors]

If I were sitting at that food court, I am eternally grateful to the citizen who took his motherfooker out and saved my life along with possibly dozens also.
Some of y'all need to get your heads out of your asses, wake up, and get the fook real. Assault weapons don't spontaneously fire. Sick and evil people pull the triggers, hey?

[lawdog77]

Adding lethal measures to a situation doesn't make those involved safer.

Yeah, actually it can. If the potential victim has been trained properly. Sorry you are so triggered by facts. Handguns aren't going away. We do need better background checks, a gun registry, and stricter red flag laws, though.

[Pakuni]

If I were sitting at that food court, I am eternally grateful to the citizen who took his motherfooker out and saved my life along with possibly dozens also.
Some of y'all need to get your heads out of your asses, wake up, and get the fook real. Assault weapons don't spontaneously fire. Sick and evil people pull the triggers, hey?

Sick and people exist all over the world. The U.S. is the only civilized country where we allow those sick and evil people easy access to military rifles.
The chances of being saved by a "Good Samaritan" is such situations is about 1 in 40. Only a person with his head up his ass would take those odds.

[4everwarriors]

If its not an assault rifle, it will be a bomb, a car, a machete, a hand grenade, poison or gas. Evil minds can find anything they want on the internet, even how to stick one's head up their own ass, aina?

[brewcity77]

Assault weapons don't spontaneously fire.

Exactly why we should restore the assault weapons ban.

Yeah, actually it can. If the potential victim has been trained properly. Sorry you are so triggered by facts. Handguns aren't going away. We do need better background checks, a gun registry, and stricter red flag laws, though.

The fact that matters is America is the only first world country where this is a problem. The only one. What we need is a SCOTUS that actually reads the Constitution (a militia is only legal if it is called and armed by Congress (Article I, Section VIII, Clauses 15-16) and doesn't just adhere to the wet dreams of the people that bought them off. We also need a legislation and administration willing to acknowledge that the correct action was what New Zealand, Australia, and other first world countries that suffered these types of terrorist attacks did in stripping weapons of war (which starts with handguns all the way up).

America is so big on freedom, but unless we have the freedom to go out in public without fear of the "sick and evil people" 4ever is alluding to without needing another armed killer like Dicken to provide gun porn, we will never be free.

[Pakuni]

Yeah, he was still legally carrying a gun. The mall had a policy of no guns, so if someone would have asked him to leave, and he did not,  it would have been trespassing. Since nobody did, he was completely legal.

This is sheer ignorance, and is not how the law works. Breaking the law is still breaking the law whether or not you're caught.
By this very bad logic, I can bring a gun aboard an airplane, and unless someone asks me to leave, I'm well within the law. Wut???

I mean, read the statute. It clearly says you're guilty of a misdemeanor if you carry a concealed firearm on property you don't own without the owner's permission. Doesn't say anything about being caught or asked to leave or trespassing.

https://codes.findlaw.com/in/title-35-criminal-law-and-procedure/in-code-sect-35-47-2-1.html

[Pakuni]

If its not an assault rifle, it will be a bomb, a car, a machete, a hand grenade, poison or gas. Evil minds can find anything they want on the internet, even how to stick one's head up their own ass, aina?

Oh, do tell about all the mass hand grenade and machete attacks we're seeing.

[lawdog77]

This is sheer ignorance, and is not how the law works. Breaking the law is still breaking the law whether or not you're caught.
By this very bad logic, I can bring a gun aboard an airplane, and unless someone asks me to leave, I'm well within the law. Wut???

I mean, read the statute. It clearly says you're guilty of a misdemeanor if you carry a concealed firearm on property you don't own without the owner's permission. Doesn't say anything about being caught or asked to leave or trespassing.

https://codes.findlaw.com/in/title-35-criminal-law-and-procedure/in-code-sect-35-47-2-1.html

Hate to tell you Pak, but you are wrong.

Greenwood Park Mall's no-weapons policy is akin to a "no shoes, no shirt, no service" sign you might see at a gas station, or a sign requiring masks in order to shop, said Guy Relford, an Indiana attorney and firearms instructor who is a prominent voice on the state's gun laws. Such signs are simply stating a business owner's policy.

If a customer does not adhere to the policy, a business owner can demand that the customer leaves. And if the customer ignores that demand, the customer is now trespassing, which is an Indiana crime.

But if no one asked Dicken to leave, then he wasn't trespassing.

"So the fact that (Greenwood Park Mall) had a no-gun policy creates no legal issue whatsoever for this gentleman," Relford said, "and it certainly has no effect whatsoever on his ability to use force to defend himself or to defend the other people in the mall."

Jody Madeira, an Indiana University law professor, echoed Relford's sentiment, agreeing that Dicken may have violated Simon Mall's policy prohibiting firearms at the mall, but "he wasn't committing a crime unless they asked him to leave and he refused."

"It's disrespectful," she said of violating the mall's policy, "but it's not unlawful."
https://www.in.gov/attorneygeneral/files/Gun-Owners-Bill-of-Rights_Web.pdf