Happy July 4th Y'all

[lawdog77]

I think too often, we focus on the extreme situations and not enough on the majority of abortions. I consider these legitimate reasons to have an abortion:

1) Rape
2) Incest
3) Parent who needs the resources to support existing children
4) Risk to mother's health/life
5) High risks to potential infant
6) Pregnancy would infringe on the mother's ability to pursue her own life and liberty
7) Any goddamn reason not listed above that the mother feels is appropriate because it's none of anyone's business other than the mother and her doctor

You can't be for freedom and liberty and also against abortion. The freedom and liberty of existing citizens trumps the freedom and liberty of potential citizens. Otherwise, if we're going to criminalize abortion, we should do the EXACT SAME for masturbation, because every time a man masturbate that's the potential of human life being shot into a sock. You want to criminalize a woman's bodily autonomy? Look in the goddamn mirror first.

And before anyone comes with some BS "sperm isn't a fertilized egg" nonsense, we have to draw a line somewhere, and if you're going to draw the line at criminalizing women, you better goddamn well hold yourself to the same standard and be prepared to spend life in prison if you ejaculate ever for a reason other than consensual procreation.

So, you are OK with abortion up until birth?

[brewcity77]

So, you are OK with abortion up until birth?

It's not about me nor what I'm okay with, nor what you're okay with, nor what anyone in here is okay with. It's between the woman and her doctor. It's not anyone's business outside that doctor's office.

[Merit Matters]

It's not about me nor what I'm okay with, nor what you're okay with, nor what anyone in here is okay with. It's between the woman and her doctor. It's not anyone's business outside that doctor's office.

A simple "yes" would have sufficed. Be proud of your stance, have conviction! Say "yes, I support that!"

[brewcity77]

A simple "yes" would have sufficed. Be proud of your stance, have conviction! Say "yes, I support that!"

Again, it's not my place one way nor the other. Saying yes would indicate I should have a say. I shouldn't, just like you shouldn't. My stance is that I know when the decision has nothing to do with me, unlike any man that isn't the attending physician and thinks they should have any say in this matter whatsoever.

I see what you are doing. It's an attempt to demonize me while abdicating your own responsibility and deflecting from your own beliefs. It's whataboutism. I'm not here for it.

[Spotcheck Billy]

People like you who call for assassinations are one primary reason for violence. If anyone needs red flag laws activated, it would be Rico. Astonishing the mods haven't banned this account for actively calling for the assassination of judges and presidents. His words, not mine.

Yes, you keep informing us. Get over it already.

[Pakuni]

So, you are OK with abortion up until birth?

Would you choose death for your wife/partner die during childbirth if it were preventable?
Same question, different angle.

[lawdog77]

Would you choose death for your wife/partner die during childbirth if it were preventable?
Same question, different angle.

I am OK with abortions in limited circumstances, such as rape, incest, health of mother. I also believe its not for me to judge those who want abortions in other circumstances. That's  above my paygrade.   .

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Jesus judges you when you masterbate

Yeah but he usually scores me a 10 out of 10

[Pakuni]

I am OK with abortions in limited circumstances, such as rape, incest, health of mother. I also believe its not for me to judge those who want abortions in other circumstances. That's  above my paygrade.   .

Then we agree.

[JWags85]

So you're of the opinion that a 14 year old who's raped by an adult and becomes pregnant as a result should have to carry the baby full term, give birth to the baby, and either decide to give up the baby or raise the baby?  Seems like a great thing for both the 14 year old and the baby.

I don't think many are pro abortion.  I think many are smartly pro not making decisions on other peoples' bodies and giving them the choice.  Remember how horrible this world was when we had to wear a cloth mask over our face when we went out into public?  My body my choice?  How inconvenient.  Now imagine being forced to give birth.

At least you didn't deny you don't give a sh!t about the children who are being gunned down in schools.  Pro life until birth.

He literally said he had no issues with rape/incest/medical exceptions earlier in the thread.  You guys disagree on enough without inflating arguments he never made.

[Lennys Tap]

He literally said he had no issues with rape/incest/medical exceptions earlier in the thread.  You guys disagree on enough without inflating arguments he never made.

Ignoring what people say and making up things they never said is a favorite ploy of his. Every honest/fair person here gets that.

[Dickthedribbler]

Jesus judges you when you masterbate

Heard you were awarded a 10 for effort and enthusiasm, but the 2 for faulty equipment dragged down your overall score.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I have to say, I've never understand why people who claim to believe that life begins at conception are okay with exceptions for rape/incest. If you truly believe that abortion is murder, what is the logic behind it? "Someone else did something awful to you so you get to murder an innocent person"?

I'm not advocating that there shouldn't be exception for rape/incest, I'm just genuinely curious what the logic is.

[Pakuni]

Sounds like Madison/Middleton literally dodged a bullet. Cops say the Highland Park shooter happened upon a celebration after driving up there and thought about opening fire, but decided against it because he hadn't done any planning for it.
Phew.

[JWags85]

I have to say, I've never understand why people who claim to believe that life begins at conception are okay with exceptions for rape/incest. If you truly believe that abortion is murder, what is the logic behind it? "Someone else did something awful to you so you get to murder an innocent person"?

I'm not advocating that there shouldn't be exception for rape/incest, I'm just genuinely curious what the logic is.

I think there are shades of grey to it.  I have a lot of pro-life family members.  Some are strict Catholics who are life begins at conception and have no grey area.  They wouldn't be in favor of exceptions, regardless.

Others understand the nuance, and would be fine with the exceptions, but I think thats also the understanding that you're taking steps with regards to aborting the pregnancy pretty soon after finding out.  They get uncomfortable if you're talking anywhere near the second trimester.  My uncle, for example, is very much pro-life but reasonable.  However, he relayed one time how he got into a heated abortion argument with a friend of theirs because he said anything after 11-12 weeks, save for critical medical emergency, was too long and the friend was incredibly insistent on "plenty of people don't even know they're pregnant at that point" which he found to be ridiculous.

FWIW, he's also very anti-gun

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I think there are shades of grey to it.  I have a lot of pro-life family members.  Some are strict Catholics who are life begins at conception and have no grey area.  They wouldn't be in favor of exceptions, regardless.

Others understand the nuance, and would be fine with the exceptions, but I think thats also the understanding that you're taking steps with regards to aborting the pregnancy pretty soon after finding out.  They get uncomfortable if you're talking anywhere near the second trimester.  My uncle, for example, is very much pro-life but reasonable.  However, he relayed one time how he got into a heated abortion argument with a friend of theirs because he said anything after 11-12 weeks, save for critical medical emergency, was too long and the friend was incredibly insistent on "plenty of people don't even know they're pregnant at that point" which he found to be ridiculous.

FWIW, he's also very anti-gun

I'm not asking about your uncle. I'm asking about people who say life begins at conception but also say that they would make exceptions for rape/incest. That's different from people who are fine with all abortion up to a certain point in the pregnancy.

[Lennys Tap]

I have to say, I've never understand why people who claim to believe that life begins at conception are okay with exceptions for rape/incest. If you truly believe that abortion is murder, what is the logic behind it? "Someone else did something awful to you so you get to murder an innocent person"?

I'm not advocating that there shouldn't be exception for rape/incest, I'm just genuinely curious what the logic is.

TAMU

Just speaking for me, but I'm OK with it under the "health of the mother" exception. I think in those cases the victim should be allowed to weigh her trauma carrying until term given the circumstances vs the life she is carrying.

[JWags85]

I'm not asking about your uncle. I'm asking about people who say life begins at conception but also say that they would make exceptions for rape/incest. That's different from people who are fine with all abortion up to a certain point in the pregnancy.

I think thats a much smaller number than you'd think.  I think the vast majority of life at conception people are absolute.

And I wasn't talking fine with all abortion up to a certain point.  I was talking someone who is fine with exceptions to a certain point.

[tower912]

Jesus judges you when you masterbate

That is why I try to do my best.

[wadesworld]

Ignoring what people say and making up things they never said is a favorite ploy of his. Every honest/fair person here gets that.

So you're pro choice.  Congratulations.

[wadesworld]

I have to say, I've never understand why people who claim to believe that life begins at conception are okay with exceptions for rape/incest. If you truly believe that abortion is murder, what is the logic behind it? "Someone else did something awful to you so you get to murder an innocent person"?

I'm not advocating that there shouldn't be exception for rape/incest, I'm just genuinely curious what the logic is.

Exactly.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I think thats a much smaller number than you'd think.  I think the vast majority of life at conception people are absolute.

And I wasn't talking fine with all abortion up to a certain point.  I was talking someone who is fine with exceptions to a certain point.

So if people are okay with exceptions until a certain point...but don't believe that life starts at conception....why don't they support all abortion until that certain point?

As I understand it, pro-life's issue with abortion is that it is murdering babies. I can understand that for some people it goes from non-baby to baby at conception, for others it is at various points throughout the pregnancy. But you seem to be saying that there are people who don't believe that life starts at conception but also want to ban all abortion except for specific exceptions (rape/incest etc.). If they don't believe life doesn't begin at conception, why do they want to ban all abortion minus exceptions?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

TAMU

Just speaking for me, but I'm OK with it under the "health of the mother" exception. I think in those cases the victim should be allowed to weigh her trauma carrying until term given the circumstances vs the life she is carrying.

Just to make sure I understand, you believe life starts at conception but are okay with women murdering their babies if they were conceived through rape/incest?

[Dish]

Sounds like Madison/Middleton literally dodged a bullet. Cops say the Highland Park shooter happened upon a celebration after driving up there and thought about opening fire, but decided against it because he hadn't done any planning for it.
Phew.

I can't even fathom if this guy had put more thought into it, what else he could have done. Once he got out of HP undetected and into a car, essentially on the move and unknown as a person of interest, he was still heavily armed.

[Uncle Rico]

Sounds like we've moved on from video games and onto anti-depressants and wees causing mass shootings.  Tough day for the door industry, too.