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Poll

Where does basketball stand amid the latest realignment?

Not to worry, nothing has changed
37 (34.6%)
It ain't football but even the NCAA can't screw it up
17 (15.9%)
Basketball doesn't matter except as entertainment between football and spring football
28 (26.2%)
Good God, are we screwed?
25 (23.4%)

Total Members Voted: 107

Author Topic: Our future  (Read 6643 times)

StillAWarrior

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Re: Our future
« Reply #25 on: July 01, 2022, 09:06:45 AM »
I'm rather concerned about basketball as we know it amid the latest realignment. Everything is football focused and when the BIG invites USC and UCLA to join Rutgers and Maryland in the same conference you know we have issues.

For Marquette, a non-football school with a heavy basketball tradition, the question has to be whether we have a future playing at the highest levels of college athletics. I'm concerned because despite our investment in our program, the dollars and the professional amateurism of the major conferences will be difficult to compete against in the years ahead.

I get that Gonzaga, Villanova, Butler and Loyola all have had success in recent years. We have a great coach and first class facilities. But between NIL and what soon will be direct payments to college athletes, do we have the backing and the long-term support necessary to compete against BIG teams. Or the SEC. Would an up-and-coming coach like Al come to or stay with Marquette in the next few decades?

I'd like to think the answer is, "absolutely!" But I have some concerns that as conference realignment and strengthening continues, basketball is an after-thought and we gte left behind. Thoughts?

One thought is that in this century, only four teams from the two emerging super-conferences (i.e., SEC and Big 10) have won the basketball tournament (MSU in 2000, Maryland in 2002, Florida in 2006 and 2007, and Kentucky in 2012). If teams start fleeing from the Big 12 (as Kansas is rumored) and potentially the ACC, the Big East might be a good landing spot. It would be interesting if some of these schools with pretty crappy football similar to UConn and Kansas started looking for a basketball-centric option.
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Scoop Snoop

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Re: Our future
« Reply #26 on: July 01, 2022, 09:14:53 AM »
I have some concerns that as conference realignment and strengthening continues, basketball is an after-thought and we get left behind. Thoughts?

I found both your comments (in your full post) and Golden Warrior 11's especially interesting. Oh, and add me to the "been hearing that for 30 years" club.

The "Requiem for the Big East" has become a standing joke and CBB will not only survive but thrive at Marquette as well as other schools and conferences. The key will be careful strategizing and marketing by commissioners and the TV execs. My primary reason for optimism is that basketball is marketable and, with occasional exceptions, does not compete for eyeballs during football broadcasts.

I get the overwhelming focus on football, but that does not necessarily mean basketball cannot survive and thrive independently from football. I think that we are sometimes paranoid about football.

 



 
« Last Edit: July 01, 2022, 09:18:39 AM by Scoop Snoop »
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dgies9156

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Re: Our future
« Reply #27 on: July 01, 2022, 09:15:28 AM »
Excellent article in the Athletic by Dana O'Neil on the NCAA tournament post re-alignment.

https://theathletic.com/3393557/2022/06/30/ncaa-tournament-college-realignment/

That's for those of you who have an Athletic subscription. For those of you who don't, Ms. O'Neill's premise is there's too much money in the NCAA tournament to gas it now. Moreover, the NCAA is the only true regulatory body overseeing college sports, no matter how badly they do it.

What I have to believe matters is that the NCAA tournament is unique among US athletic events. Three weeks of sudden death involving 68 teams. It's the only national college tournament where schools like Marquette, Villanova, Gonzaga, Butler, Loyola, UM-Baltimore County, St. Peter's and St. Bonaventure have a chance. The fact that schools like us, Villanova and Georgetown all have won NCAA titles is not insignificant.

I'm hopeful with realignment, some things won't change. I want us matching up against the BIG, SEC and others every year. Sure, sometimes our backsides will get kicked into the next state but, then there's 1977 and 20__ and that makes up for it all!

Hards Alumni

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Re: Our future
« Reply #28 on: July 01, 2022, 09:23:06 AM »
   try a little self discipline sometime...your response was unnecessarily dumb, but par for the course.  the only thing that matters is because we aren't a football school, we are doomed?  too much carbon monoxide again?

  i'm thinking basketball only schools will be fine.  possibly even in a better position than schools with mediocre to weak football teams because they aren't wasting money on football and can concentrate on getting one major sport right.  with the right decisions, good personnel and a little bit of luck, MU should be fine.  the question remains is can we take it to the next level, i.e. gonzaga, villanova, etc

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LAZER

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Re: Our future
« Reply #29 on: July 01, 2022, 09:37:11 AM »
Excellent article in the Athletic by Dana O'Neil on the NCAA tournament post re-alignment.

https://theathletic.com/3393557/2022/06/30/ncaa-tournament-college-realignment/

That's for those of you who have an Athletic subscription. For those of you who don't, Ms. O'Neill's premise is there's too much money in the NCAA tournament to gas it now. Moreover, the NCAA is the only true regulatory body overseeing college sports, no matter how badly they do it.

What I have to believe matters is that the NCAA tournament is unique among US athletic events. Three weeks of sudden death involving 68 teams. It's the only national college tournament where schools like Marquette, Villanova, Gonzaga, Butler, Loyola, UM-Baltimore County, St. Peter's and St. Bonaventure have a chance. The fact that schools like us, Villanova and Georgetown all have won NCAA titles is not insignificant.

I'm hopeful with realignment, some things won't change. I want us matching up against the BIG, SEC and others every year. Sure, sometimes our backsides will get kicked into the next state but, then there's 1977 and 20__ and that makes up for it all!
The tournament is a golden goose and it would be really risky to mess with it. But if these football schools think they can get more money by leaving basketball only schools out of the tournament, they will.

GoldenWarrior11

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Re: Our future
« Reply #30 on: July 01, 2022, 09:48:35 AM »
The tournament will be reformatted 100%.  There is a ton of money in March Madness, but the powers-that-be can make even more if they consolidate further (which they will because that's all that has occurred via realignment).  Even after consolidation, there will still be upsets and Cinderella stories - but there will be a financial component as to who gets invited to the ball. 

Shooter McGavin

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Re: Our future
« Reply #31 on: July 01, 2022, 09:49:37 AM »
The tournament is a golden goose and it would be really risky to mess with it. But if these football schools think they can get more money by leaving basketball only schools out of the tournament, they will.

The viewership would go down significantly.  People from non BIG and SEC schools would simply not watch anymore.  People would have zero rooting interest in another conference tournament.  Or Big /SeC challenge.  It would not be a true national championship anymore.

These people are good at making money not losing it.  The Big Eat will be fine. 

Uncle Rico

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Re: Our future
« Reply #32 on: July 01, 2022, 09:50:59 AM »
The viewership would go down significantly.  People from non BIG and SEC schools would simply not watch anymore.  People would have zero rooting interest in another conference tournament.  Or Big /SeC challenge.  It would not be a true national championship anymore.

These people are good at making money not losing it.  The Big Eat will be fine.

At some point, there will be negative consequences from all the changes with regards to fans and viewership numbers.  However, college football is so embedded into the national consciousness, it won’t be enough to make much of a difference in totality.

Tis a shame, 'tis a rotton shame, for if ye can enjoy the walkin’ ye can probably enjoy the other times in yer life when ve're in between. And that's most o' the time; wouldn't ye say?

Hards Alumni

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Re: Our future
« Reply #33 on: July 01, 2022, 09:56:14 AM »
The viewership would go down significantly.  People from non BIG and SEC schools would simply not watch anymore.  People would have zero rooting interest in another conference tournament.  Or Big /SeC challenge.  It would not be a true national championship anymore.

These people are good at making money not losing it.  The Big Eat will be fine.

You feel that Mr Froggie?  The water is getting awfully warm.

Shooter McGavin

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Re: Our future
« Reply #34 on: July 01, 2022, 10:28:56 AM »
You feel that Mr Froggie?  The water is getting awfully warm.

The football water is warm.  The basketball water is not in my opinion. In football, it will be the same old schools getting more money to play.  Viewership won’t go down.

In basketball people like conference tournaments and challenges between conferences during the season but they don’t draw eyeballs like the NCAA tournament.

I’m of the opinion that conferences like the Big East will be fine as they will be brought along to make the tournament a true national championship and not a conference tournament. 

60 football schools is not enough for a basketball championship.  It won’t drive enough interest in my opinion.  A ridiculous amount of people watch the tournament on the first and second weekend because of the underdog and because they want to see how their conference winner does even if it’s not their team.  You can’t underestimate those eyeballs.

The Big East will make the cut for the national championship tournament in its next iteration no matter what.  I think it would still take at least 200 teams to choose from to make it legitimate and keep enough viewership.

Hopefully I and others with this opinion will be right.  If not, no more college basketball viewership for me. 

LAZER

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Re: Our future
« Reply #35 on: July 01, 2022, 10:36:20 AM »
The viewership would go down significantly.  People from non BIG and SEC schools would simply not watch anymore.  People would have zero rooting interest in another conference tournament.  Or Big /SeC challenge.  It would not be a true national championship anymore.

These people are good at making money not losing it.  The Big Eat will be fine.
The viewership can go down and the tv contract can go down too, but if each school is walking away with more money, they'll strongly consider it.

Hards Alumni

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Re: Our future
« Reply #36 on: July 01, 2022, 10:37:04 AM »
The football water is warm.  The basketball water is not in my opinion. In football, it will be the same old schools getting more money to play.  Viewership won’t go down.

In basketball people like conference tournaments and challenges between conferences during the season but they don’t draw eyeballs like the NCAA tournament.

I’m of the opinion that conferences like the Big East will be fine as they will be brought along to make the tournament a true national championship and not a conference tournament. 

60 football schools is not enough for a basketball championship.  It won’t drive enough interest in my opinion.  A ridiculous amount of people watch the tournament on the first and second weekend because of the underdog and because they want to see how their conference winner does even if it’s not their team.  You can’t underestimate those eyeballs.

The Big East will make the cut for the national championship tournament in its next iteration no matter what.  I think it would still take at least 200 teams to choose from to make it legitimate and keep enough viewership.

Hopefully I and others with this opinion will be right.  If not, no more college basketball viewership for me.

They watch because of gambling.  But people will gamble on almost anything.

I wish I was as optimistic as you.

Uncle Rico

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Re: Our future
« Reply #37 on: July 01, 2022, 10:38:07 AM »
They watch because of gambling.  But people will gamble on almost anything.

I wish I was as optimistic as you.

That’s why football will be hard to kill.  People love gambling on it
Tis a shame, 'tis a rotton shame, for if ye can enjoy the walkin’ ye can probably enjoy the other times in yer life when ve're in between. And that's most o' the time; wouldn't ye say?

Shooter McGavin

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Re: Our future
« Reply #38 on: July 01, 2022, 11:12:26 AM »
They watch because of gambling.  But people will gamble on almost anything.

I wish I was as optimistic as you.

I agree on the gambling part.  I gamble as well but only on things that I’m interested in or know something about.  I would not gamble on nor be interested in a conference tournament if it didn’t lead to going to a bigger (NCAA) tournament.   Marquette basketball would not mean anything to me anymore as well if we were in some sort of lower tier. I think there are millions of people out there with a similar take regarding their basketball programs as well as gambling on sports in which they are invested.

Hopefully things shake out well and we still have an opportunity to go to the big boy tournament yearly.  I think that will happen.  Too many eyeballs will be lost otherwise.

jfp61

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Re: Our future
« Reply #39 on: July 01, 2022, 11:16:35 AM »
The only issue with football is if all of these schools leave the NCAA and do a 30 team BIG Ten vs SEC league, blowing up the NCAA tournament. (though at least College BBall could destroy the horrible CBS contract extension.)

NIL will stick with football largely unless you are a Blue blood. Marquette will probably spend in NIL to keep guys like a Jackson Davis in a few years, but the system isn't in place yet.

There really isn't as much bleed over into College BBall as people like to think there is.

muguru

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Re: Our future
« Reply #40 on: July 01, 2022, 11:26:16 AM »
https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/football-drove-usc-and-ucla-to-the-big-ten-but-could-eventually-mean-big-changes-in-college-basketball-too/

Which brings me to what I really want to write about -- the NCAA Tournament.

How confident are we that it'll remain untouched?

CBS and Turner have a contract to broadcast the NCAA Tournament through 2032. So we should be cool for a decade, I guess. But if the Big Ten and SEC are indeed super-sized leagues pushing a combined 50 members when that contract expires, how crazy is it to think the SEC and Big Ten could grab another league or two -- or not -- and offer networks a postseason tournament featuring nothing but schools from those leagues? Does it sound any crazier than UCLA and Rutgers being in the same conference?

Obviously not.

I recently asked a television executive about the possibility of something like this happening, and he more or less told me it would probably be more lucrative but likely be an inferior product because, just about everybody agrees, one of the things that makes the NCAA Tournament special is how all the teams from all 32 leagues have access to it. Without that, you never get Saint Peter's over Kentucky. Or George Mason to the Final Four. Or Dunk City. Or Davidson's Steph Curry becoming a star by bouncing through the bracket.

But the only thing I heard is "more lucrative."

That scares me.

Because nearly every decision the decision-makers have made when it comes to seismic changes in college athletics in recent years has been motivated by money with little regard for anything else. So while I've heard many make the case that the one thing you cannot do is mess with the NCAA Tournament because an NCAA Tournament without all 32 conferences would ruin what is arguably the best postseason tournament in American sports, I guess my question is this: What if messing with the NCAA Tournament -- and by "messing with the NCAA Tournament" I mean basically replacing it with a gigantic Big Ten/SEC Tournament that determines the "national champion" -- is more lucrative for the Big Ten and SEC?

Would they mess with it then?

Before you answer, remember, SEC commissioner Greg Sankey has already floated the idea of an SEC-only postseason tournament in football -- and if he's willing to put ending the CFP as we know it on the table, I can't imagine he's unwilling to put ending the NCAA Tournament as we know it on the table. He doesn't strike me as the sentimental type. Big Ten commissioner Kevin Warren doesn't either.
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The Equalizer

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Re: Our future
« Reply #41 on: July 01, 2022, 11:44:28 AM »
Quote from: Shooter McGavin link=topic=63468.msg1458309#msg1458309 date=
The football water is warm.  The basketball water is not in my opinion. In football, it will be the same old schools getting more money to play.  Viewership won’t go down.

In basketball people like conference tournaments and challenges between conferences during the season but they don’t draw eyeballs like the NCAA tournament.

I’m of the opinion that conferences like the Big East will be fine as they will be brought along to make the tournament a true national championship and not a conference tournament. 

60 football schools is not enough for a basketball championship.  It won’t drive enough interest in my opinion.  A ridiculous amount of people watch the tournament on the first and second weekend because of the underdog and because they want to see how their conference winner does even if it’s not their team.  You can’t underestimate those eyeballs.

The Big East will make the cut for the national championship tournament in its next iteration no matter what.  I think it would still take at least 200 teams to choose from to make it legitimate and keep enough viewership.

Hopefully I and others with this opinion will be right.  If not, no more college basketball viewership for me.

I don't buy your theory that people won't watch.  The Super Bowl still generates high ratings in St. Louis, despite the fact that St. Louis no longer has a team--not only that but their team was unceremoniously uprooted and taken from them.

Twice.

Yet they still watch because it's a major sporting event, not because "their" team is in it.
https://recentlyheard.com/2022/02/18/super-bowl-ratings-higher-in-st-louis-than-los-angeles/

I also think you're ignoring the impact of those who will continue to hype the legitimacy of the championship, starting with the television networks that broadcast it to the conferences that still participate to their still massive fan bases.  You'll be part of a small minority trying to push the "not legit" argument going up against some pretty big megaphones.

Consider a Wisconsin championship in this hypothetical future where Marquette is out of the picture.

Nearly everyone in the state will recognize that championship as legitimate. Every TV network. Every newspaper. Every sports network.  Businesses throughout the state will celebrate "our team's championship" with everything from celebrations for their employees to special promotions (get your exclusive Bucky Championship T-Shirt with a fill-up at Kwik Trip!).  Do you really think you'll win the argument that the championship isn't legit?

It would be disappointing for sure, but I just don't see this evolving the way you think it will.

Shooter McGavin

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Re: Our future
« Reply #42 on: July 01, 2022, 12:34:43 PM »
I can definitely see the other side of the argument.  People like me will die off and the newer generations won’t know the difference.  It will be like college football now.

Millions of formerly interested/invested people who will not watch due to lack of personal interest will eventually be whittled down to zero. 

I’ve already told my younger kids who love CBB (in no small part due to my fandom of MU) they better hedge their bets and go to a larger state school where they can get a great education and have some guaranteed fun as an alumnus rooting for their school’s sports at the highest levels.

dgies9156

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Re: Our future
« Reply #43 on: July 01, 2022, 12:59:48 PM »
Folks, I blame the jet for the mess we're in!

Really, think about it.

Historically, conferences haver been geographically based. The bounds of the conference historically have been about as far as you can travel on the ground in about a day. The SEC, for example, is largely built on the rail lines of the Southern, the L&N and the ICG. In the Big 10, the longest trip used to be between Columbus and Minneapolis, which on a charter train or bus is about a day.

It was nice because teams played nearby teams, creating rivalries. You'd go to a football (or basketball) game, network, watch the game and go home. If you are Michigan playing Ohio State or Michigan State, or us playing Notre Dame or DePaul or the Red Roadkill, it was locals getting together to blow crap on each other, watch a game, maybe have dinner and go home.

With jet travel and airlines going everywhere, what used to be a special treat, takes about as long as it would take to go from Knoxville to Athens, or Birmingham to Baton Rouge. Think about it. UCLA traveling to Rutgers is about the same time as it used to take UCLA to ride to Palo Alto or Berkeley.

It will get worse in the years ahead, when Wisconsin ends up playing UCLA instead of us. Look at how long it took to get Notre Dame back on the schedule. We used to be regular opponents for Minnesota, Iowa and even, occasionally, Illinois. Those would all be fun games but we'll never see any of those teams on our regular schedule again. They'll be too busy playing each other in conference or the dregs of the A10.

And, that's too bad!

GoldenEagles03

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Re: Our future
« Reply #44 on: July 01, 2022, 01:57:23 PM »
He left because if he didn’t make a major run in the NCAA Tournament the next year he would’ve been fired.

This site is absolutely ridiculous.
VIOLENCE!

WhiteTrash

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Re: Our future
« Reply #45 on: July 01, 2022, 01:59:45 PM »
The thought that schools or conferences will sacrifice the sport as a whole and the majority of its fanbase for individual enrichment is nothing new. See pro boxing and CART/Indy and pro golf. 

Viper

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Re: Our future
« Reply #46 on: July 01, 2022, 03:49:19 PM »
The thought that schools or conferences will sacrifice the sport as a whole and the majority of its fanbase for individual enrichment is nothing new. See pro boxing and CART/Indy and pro golf.
correct. CART, er IndyCar is just now rebounding…25 yrs after the split, yet still far behind where it once was in the sporting publics awareness.
make Marquette basketball great again

bilsu

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Re: Our future
« Reply #47 on: July 01, 2022, 04:02:06 PM »
I do not see the NCAA tournament being scrapped for a power 5 only tournament; I could see being changed from 32 conferences to maybe 20.

Billy Hoyle

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Re: Our future
« Reply #48 on: July 01, 2022, 04:14:10 PM »
I do not see the NCAA tournament being scrapped for a power 5 only tournament; I could see being changed from 32 conferences to maybe 20.

Think of it like the World Cup qualifying process. Not every delegation gets the same amount of spots, but instead a set number. Conference tournaments will lead to another play in tournament as the lowest ranked conferences (e.g.m Oceana) will have to play a playoff game to qualify for the Dance.
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Herman Cain

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Re: Our future
« Reply #49 on: July 01, 2022, 04:44:13 PM »
Folks, I blame the jet for the mess we're in!

Really, think about it.

Historically, conferences haver been geographically based. The bounds of the conference historically have been about as far as you can travel on the ground in about a day. The SEC, for example, is largely built on the rail lines of the Southern, the L&N and the ICG. In the Big 10, the longest trip used to be between Columbus and Minneapolis, which on a charter train or bus is about a day.

It was nice because teams played nearby teams, creating rivalries. You'd go to a football (or basketball) game, network, watch the game and go home. If you are Michigan playing Ohio State or Michigan State, or us playing Notre Dame or DePaul or the Red Roadkill, it was locals getting together to blow crap on each other, watch a game, maybe have dinner and go home.

With jet travel and airlines going everywhere, what used to be a special treat, takes about as long as it would take to go from Knoxville to Athens, or Birmingham to Baton Rouge. Think about it. UCLA traveling to Rutgers is about the same time as it used to take UCLA to ride to Palo Alto or Berkeley.

It will get worse in the years ahead, when Wisconsin ends up playing UCLA instead of us. Look at how long it took to get Notre Dame back on the schedule. We used to be regular opponents for Minnesota, Iowa and even, occasionally, Illinois. Those would all be fun games but we'll never see any of those teams on our regular schedule again. They'll be too busy playing each other in conference or the dregs of the A10.

And, that's too bad!
I agree with this analysis
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