MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: dgies9156 on June 30, 2022, 10:44:50 PM
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I'm rather concerned about basketball as we know it amid the latest realignment. Everything is football focused and when the BIG invites USC and UCLA to join Rutgers and Maryland in the same conference you know we have issues.
For Marquette, a non-football school with a heavy basketball tradition, the question has to be whether we have a future playing at the highest levels of college athletics. I'm concerned because despite our investment in our program, the dollars and the professional amateurism of the major conferences will be difficult to compete against in the years ahead.
I get that Gonzaga, Villanova, Butler and Loyola all have had success in recent years. We have a great coach and first class facilities. But between NIL and what soon will be direct payments to college athletes, do we have the backing and the long-term support necessary to compete against BIG teams. Or the SEC. Would an up-and-coming coach like Al come to or stay with Marquette in the next few decades?
I'd like to think the answer is, "absolutely!" But I have some concerns that as conference realignment and strengthening continues, basketball is an after-thought and we gte left behind. Thoughts?
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I'm not sure about the four options but Marquette is going to be fine moving forward.
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I enjoy we can spread our NIL amongst 13 players instead of 98 like schools with football and basketball with the focus towards football.
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You guys aren’t thinking far enough ahead. Projected revenues for football are not taking into account a severe recession on the horizon. Also, has anyone paid attention to the continuing health and safety issues that will limit youth participation in football for years to come? Football is absolutely NOT the future, no matter how ridiculous the numbers are now. You think football is a drain on Athletic Departments now? Just wait. Basketball has a much much brighter future. The BigEast will position itself to capitalize. There is no doubt in my mind.
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"Would an up-and-coming coach like Al come to or stay with Marquette in the next few decades?"
Shaka just turned 45 and has 291 career wins with a trip to the Final Four. He also left Texas because they were too football-centric.
If we do this right we won't have to worry about a new head coach in the next few decades.
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I believe the non-football/non-BCS schools will be fine going forward with Basketball.
Now on the other hand if you have a good basketball program and a crappy football program you are at risk of being left behind. A lot of the schol sgetting left are going to have to look at football and make the decision of whether it is worth it to stay at an FBS level, i.e. Kansa, Arizona, Arizona St., Kansas St., etc....
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You guys aren’t thinking far enough ahead. Projected revenues for football are not taking into account a severe recession on the horizon. Also, has anyone paid attention to the continuing health and safety issues that will limit youth participation in football for years to come? Football is absolutely NOT the future, no matter how ridiculous the numbers are now. You think football is a drain on Athletic Departments now? Just wait. Basketball has a much much brighter future. The BigEast will position itself to capitalize. There is no doubt in my mind.
Been hearing this for about 30 years now.
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"Would an up-and-coming coach like Al come to or stay with Marquette in the next few decades?"
Shaka just turned 45 and has 291 career wins with a trip to the Final Four. He also left Texas because they were too football-centric.
If we do this right we won't have to worry about a new head coach in the next few decades.
He left because if he didn’t make a major run in the NCAA Tournament the next year he would’ve been fired.
Been hearing this for about 30 years now.
Exactly.
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You guys aren’t thinking far enough ahead. Projected revenues for football are not taking into account a severe recession on the horizon. Also, has anyone paid attention to the continuing health and safety issues that will limit youth participation in football for years to come? Football is absolutely NOT the future, no matter how ridiculous the numbers are now. You think football is a drain on Athletic Departments now? Just wait. Basketball has a much much brighter future. The BigEast will position itself to capitalize. There is no doubt in my mind.
This came to mind as well and I’m curious as to what youth football is like now. When I was in 4th, 5th, etc grade there was such a large percentage of kids going out for football. Wonder if it’s the same now.
I don’t think football will be dead but kids nowadays are much different than they were 20 years ago. We are at least 10 years away from really being able to understand the impact of that though.
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What is to stop the top 30-40 schools with football teams from flipping the table and making their 'brand' an exclusive league?
Furthermore, once this is accomplished and basically every media market is covered by one of these schools... where does that leave teams like us? We don't bring in football revenue, and we'd just be another mouth to feed.
I dunno man, sort of scary times as an MU fan.
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What is to stop the top 30-40 schools with football teams from flipping the table and making their 'brand' an exclusive league?
I don't think this is the most likely outcome but it is possible. If it does happen, I think it will be just football s league, the other sports will continue on in the NCAA.
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the NIL and MU and all smaller market programs for that matter was a concern of mine right out of the gate. i believe we have enough individual/alumni big money on our sidelines, but do we have a large enough market to justify or support a company/product investment in an MU athlete.
what comes first-the "super star", the "dwayne wade" and then the NIL$$ or do we need the NIL's to attract the "super stars"? does a company take a flier on certain players they believe will be good investments? make an escalating, non guaranteed offer? not sure what the rules are(half a chuckle). this is where the witchita states can become b-ball memories
i think shaka is a great start and i believe MU brings an excellent opportunity for a good kid or 2 or 3(amigos) to become great, carry a program, shine the light on it and they(NIL's) will come. MU has shown it can give it's athletes the stage. they need to put on a show. look at the attention a ja morant, a steph curry can bring to a smaller school
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Maybe the Saudis will fund us.
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the NIL and MU and all smaller market programs for that matter was a concern of mine right out of the gate. i believe we have enough individual/alumni big money on our sidelines, but do we have a large enough market to justify or support a company/product investment in an MU athlete.
what comes first-the "super star", the "dwayne wade" and then the NIL$$ or do we need the NIL's to attract the "super stars"? does a company take a flier on certain players they believe will be good investments? make an escalating, non guaranteed offer? not sure what the rules are(half a chuckle). this is where the witchita states can become b-ball memories
i think shaka is a great start and i believe MU brings an excellent opportunity for a good kid or 2 or 3(amigos) to become great, carry a program, shine the light on it and they(NIL's) will come. MU has shown it can give it's athletes the stage. they need to put on a show. look at the attention a ja morant, a steph curry can bring to a smaller school
None of this matters. We aren't a football school. Which is the only thing that matters.
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This came to mind as well and I’m curious as to what youth football is like now. When I was in 4th, 5th, etc grade there was such a large percentage of kids going out for football. Wonder if it’s the same now.
I don’t think football will be dead but kids nowadays are much different than they were 20 years ago. We are at least 10 years away from really being able to understand the impact of that though.
Youth football is down. But so?
There are still plenty of players to fill college rosters and NFL rosters. And it is undoubtedly the sport that the viewing public watches the most. And I don’t see that changing anytime soon.
Just cause you don’t play it doesn’t mean you don’t watch it.
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Youth football is down. But so?
There are still plenty of players to fill college rosters and NFL rosters. And it is undoubtedly the sport that the viewing public watches the most. And I don’t see that changing anytime soon.
Just cause you don’t play it doesn’t mean you don’t watch it.
I used to think football didn’t have a future. Maybe it doesn’t, but not in my lifetime
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Maybe the Saudis will fund us.
Joe Biden Saudi agenda:
YOU: TOP PRIORITY
As a devout Catholic Get Saudi Prince to sponsor Marquette Basketball
YOU: Let Hunter finalize all the details with you getting 10%
YOU: Don't forget to ask for more oil, but make sure our top priority gets done.
YOU: now let's get outa here.
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None of this matters. We aren't a football school. Which is the only thing that matters.
try a little self discipline sometime...your response was unnecessarily dumb, but par for the course. the only thing that matters is because we aren't a football school, we are doomed? too much carbon monoxide again?
i'm thinking basketball only schools will be fine. possibly even in a better position than schools with mediocre to weak football teams because they aren't wasting money on football and can concentrate on getting one major sport right. with the right decisions, good personnel and a little bit of luck, MU should be fine. the question remains is can we take it to the next level, i.e. gonzaga, villanova, etc
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Exactly, if Marquette was a tennis powerhouse and the focus of their athletic department, do you think the best HS tennis players would care if Marquette was a football school?
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This came to mind as well and I’m curious as to what youth football is like now. When I was in 4th, 5th, etc grade there was such a large percentage of kids going out for football. Wonder if it’s the same now.
I don’t think football will be dead but kids nowadays are much different than they were 20 years ago. We are at least 10 years away from really being able to understand the impact of that though.
Youth sports in general are waaaaay down.
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Surprised there was not a poll option for “Marquette should bring back football and change the name to Warriors while doing so”
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Realignment remains about football and football only. When the C7 banded together to take control over their own destiny and future in college athletics, it was still as a result of football (despite none of the schools offering FBS programs). Despite the doom and gloom from many ("You can't survive without D1 Football", "You can't survive without ESPN", "You can't survive without the large public schools and their alumni bases", etc.), Marquette (and the Big East) ended up making more money, getting more exposure on national television and proved that you don't need elite college football in order to compete in men's basketball. Even when UConn made the correct choice in returning to the Big East - that was in direct response to the financial failures it was enduring by putting on all of their chips on football. In order to financially save football, it joined the Big East (and going FBS Independent); as a result, it took more buy games, cut down significantly on travel (as, surprisingly, having annual conference road games against G5 programs in Florida, Texas, Louisiana and Oklahoma wasn't the best financial strategy) and sought more games against regional opponents.
The Dawn of the Mega 2 has been predicted for many years now, and those that did not see this coming, respectfully, had their head in the sand. More moves will be made within the coming months and years ahead, and by the 2030s, we will have the B1G and SEC as the mega conferences that will have consolidated the revenues and exposure and streamlining the oversight of college football (which, IMO, is best for the sport for many reasons - but that can be a different post).
In regards to basketball, how it will shake out is that the Mega 2 will look to consolidate March Madness and bring along a number of conferences that offer similar financial support, history and commitment to spending at similar levels. The Big East, and others, will 100% be brought along for the ride. The lower conferences, that frankly have zero business participating at these same levels, will be relegated to a new Division 1-B. In the end, Big East schools will actually be making more revenues from March Madness, thus earning more to spend on student-athletes and resources. Marquette will be fine (and these UCLA/USC moves truly benefit the Big East in regards to FOX negotiations).
What remains hilarious to me is that schools like Syracuse, Pittsburgh, Louisville et. al. all couldn't wait to jump ship from the Big East, proclaiming how they belonged in the Big Boy Club, wagging their fingers at schools that were left behind. Well, very soon, those same schools are going to be left behind and will need to return to many of these grouping of schools in order to save their precious basketball programs (which still provide significant revenues to their athletic departments and schools). As soon as the SEC assimilates Florida State, Clemson and others, and the B1G takes more of the PAC, let's see how quickly the panic sets in from these former members when they realize that they are staring at bringing up Temple, USF, ECU and Memphis for basketball purposes.
The Big East is in outstanding position moving forward from a negotiating standpoint, especially with our deal up shortly. Can't wait to see it unfold.
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Youth sports in general are waaaaay down.
Here in New Jersey most parents focus on academics in High School and unless you have a family member playing or in school the Friday night football game is not a big deal like it is in many rural communities in Texas and the southeast. Our local school has at present just under 750 students: 65% white, 14% black, 11 % hispanic , 9% asian and 1% mixed. I am actually quite amazed that a school of that size can field a football team and win their league consistently. I'll concede that only a few would probably be offered a college scholarship but here youth sports appears to be doing just fine.
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I think it's bad for college hoops. And if UCLA wins a title as a B14 member it will not count as a B14 championship.
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Maybe the Saudis will fund us.
LIV and let live.
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I'm rather concerned about basketball as we know it amid the latest realignment. Everything is football focused and when the BIG invites USC and UCLA to join Rutgers and Maryland in the same conference you know we have issues.
For Marquette, a non-football school with a heavy basketball tradition, the question has to be whether we have a future playing at the highest levels of college athletics. I'm concerned because despite our investment in our program, the dollars and the professional amateurism of the major conferences will be difficult to compete against in the years ahead.
I get that Gonzaga, Villanova, Butler and Loyola all have had success in recent years. We have a great coach and first class facilities. But between NIL and what soon will be direct payments to college athletes, do we have the backing and the long-term support necessary to compete against BIG teams. Or the SEC. Would an up-and-coming coach like Al come to or stay with Marquette in the next few decades?
I'd like to think the answer is, "absolutely!" But I have some concerns that as conference realignment and strengthening continues, basketball is an after-thought and we gte left behind. Thoughts?
One thought is that in this century, only four teams from the two emerging super-conferences (i.e., SEC and Big 10) have won the basketball tournament (MSU in 2000, Maryland in 2002, Florida in 2006 and 2007, and Kentucky in 2012). If teams start fleeing from the Big 12 (as Kansas is rumored) and potentially the ACC, the Big East might be a good landing spot. It would be interesting if some of these schools with pretty crappy football similar to UConn and Kansas started looking for a basketball-centric option.
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I have some concerns that as conference realignment and strengthening continues, basketball is an after-thought and we get left behind. Thoughts?
I found both your comments (in your full post) and Golden Warrior 11's especially interesting. Oh, and add me to the "been hearing that for 30 years" club.
The "Requiem for the Big East" has become a standing joke and CBB will not only survive but thrive at Marquette as well as other schools and conferences. The key will be careful strategizing and marketing by commissioners and the TV execs. My primary reason for optimism is that basketball is marketable and, with occasional exceptions, does not compete for eyeballs during football broadcasts.
I get the overwhelming focus on football, but that does not necessarily mean basketball cannot survive and thrive independently from football. I think that we are sometimes paranoid about football.
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Excellent article in the Athletic by Dana O'Neil on the NCAA tournament post re-alignment.
https://theathletic.com/3393557/2022/06/30/ncaa-tournament-college-realignment/
That's for those of you who have an Athletic subscription. For those of you who don't, Ms. O'Neill's premise is there's too much money in the NCAA tournament to gas it now. Moreover, the NCAA is the only true regulatory body overseeing college sports, no matter how badly they do it.
What I have to believe matters is that the NCAA tournament is unique among US athletic events. Three weeks of sudden death involving 68 teams. It's the only national college tournament where schools like Marquette, Villanova, Gonzaga, Butler, Loyola, UM-Baltimore County, St. Peter's and St. Bonaventure have a chance. The fact that schools like us, Villanova and Georgetown all have won NCAA titles is not insignificant.
I'm hopeful with realignment, some things won't change. I want us matching up against the BIG, SEC and others every year. Sure, sometimes our backsides will get kicked into the next state but, then there's 1977 and 20__ and that makes up for it all!
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try a little self discipline sometime...your response was unnecessarily dumb, but par for the course. the only thing that matters is because we aren't a football school, we are doomed? too much carbon monoxide again?
i'm thinking basketball only schools will be fine. possibly even in a better position than schools with mediocre to weak football teams because they aren't wasting money on football and can concentrate on getting one major sport right. with the right decisions, good personnel and a little bit of luck, MU should be fine. the question remains is can we take it to the next level, i.e. gonzaga, villanova, etc
Read the room, Tommy Boy.
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Excellent article in the Athletic by Dana O'Neil on the NCAA tournament post re-alignment.
https://theathletic.com/3393557/2022/06/30/ncaa-tournament-college-realignment/
That's for those of you who have an Athletic subscription. For those of you who don't, Ms. O'Neill's premise is there's too much money in the NCAA tournament to gas it now. Moreover, the NCAA is the only true regulatory body overseeing college sports, no matter how badly they do it.
What I have to believe matters is that the NCAA tournament is unique among US athletic events. Three weeks of sudden death involving 68 teams. It's the only national college tournament where schools like Marquette, Villanova, Gonzaga, Butler, Loyola, UM-Baltimore County, St. Peter's and St. Bonaventure have a chance. The fact that schools like us, Villanova and Georgetown all have won NCAA titles is not insignificant.
I'm hopeful with realignment, some things won't change. I want us matching up against the BIG, SEC and others every year. Sure, sometimes our backsides will get kicked into the next state but, then there's 1977 and 20__ and that makes up for it all!
The tournament is a golden goose and it would be really risky to mess with it. But if these football schools think they can get more money by leaving basketball only schools out of the tournament, they will.
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The tournament will be reformatted 100%. There is a ton of money in March Madness, but the powers-that-be can make even more if they consolidate further (which they will because that's all that has occurred via realignment). Even after consolidation, there will still be upsets and Cinderella stories - but there will be a financial component as to who gets invited to the ball.
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The tournament is a golden goose and it would be really risky to mess with it. But if these football schools think they can get more money by leaving basketball only schools out of the tournament, they will.
The viewership would go down significantly. People from non BIG and SEC schools would simply not watch anymore. People would have zero rooting interest in another conference tournament. Or Big /SeC challenge. It would not be a true national championship anymore.
These people are good at making money not losing it. The Big Eat will be fine.
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The viewership would go down significantly. People from non BIG and SEC schools would simply not watch anymore. People would have zero rooting interest in another conference tournament. Or Big /SeC challenge. It would not be a true national championship anymore.
These people are good at making money not losing it. The Big Eat will be fine.
At some point, there will be negative consequences from all the changes with regards to fans and viewership numbers. However, college football is so embedded into the national consciousness, it won’t be enough to make much of a difference in totality.
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The viewership would go down significantly. People from non BIG and SEC schools would simply not watch anymore. People would have zero rooting interest in another conference tournament. Or Big /SeC challenge. It would not be a true national championship anymore.
These people are good at making money not losing it. The Big Eat will be fine.
You feel that Mr Froggie? The water is getting awfully warm.
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You feel that Mr Froggie? The water is getting awfully warm.
The football water is warm. The basketball water is not in my opinion. In football, it will be the same old schools getting more money to play. Viewership won’t go down.
In basketball people like conference tournaments and challenges between conferences during the season but they don’t draw eyeballs like the NCAA tournament.
I’m of the opinion that conferences like the Big East will be fine as they will be brought along to make the tournament a true national championship and not a conference tournament.
60 football schools is not enough for a basketball championship. It won’t drive enough interest in my opinion. A ridiculous amount of people watch the tournament on the first and second weekend because of the underdog and because they want to see how their conference winner does even if it’s not their team. You can’t underestimate those eyeballs.
The Big East will make the cut for the national championship tournament in its next iteration no matter what. I think it would still take at least 200 teams to choose from to make it legitimate and keep enough viewership.
Hopefully I and others with this opinion will be right. If not, no more college basketball viewership for me.
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The viewership would go down significantly. People from non BIG and SEC schools would simply not watch anymore. People would have zero rooting interest in another conference tournament. Or Big /SeC challenge. It would not be a true national championship anymore.
These people are good at making money not losing it. The Big Eat will be fine.
The viewership can go down and the tv contract can go down too, but if each school is walking away with more money, they'll strongly consider it.
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The football water is warm. The basketball water is not in my opinion. In football, it will be the same old schools getting more money to play. Viewership won’t go down.
In basketball people like conference tournaments and challenges between conferences during the season but they don’t draw eyeballs like the NCAA tournament.
I’m of the opinion that conferences like the Big East will be fine as they will be brought along to make the tournament a true national championship and not a conference tournament.
60 football schools is not enough for a basketball championship. It won’t drive enough interest in my opinion. A ridiculous amount of people watch the tournament on the first and second weekend because of the underdog and because they want to see how their conference winner does even if it’s not their team. You can’t underestimate those eyeballs.
The Big East will make the cut for the national championship tournament in its next iteration no matter what. I think it would still take at least 200 teams to choose from to make it legitimate and keep enough viewership.
Hopefully I and others with this opinion will be right. If not, no more college basketball viewership for me.
They watch because of gambling. But people will gamble on almost anything.
I wish I was as optimistic as you.
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They watch because of gambling. But people will gamble on almost anything.
I wish I was as optimistic as you.
That’s why football will be hard to kill. People love gambling on it
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They watch because of gambling. But people will gamble on almost anything.
I wish I was as optimistic as you.
I agree on the gambling part. I gamble as well but only on things that I’m interested in or know something about. I would not gamble on nor be interested in a conference tournament if it didn’t lead to going to a bigger (NCAA) tournament. Marquette basketball would not mean anything to me anymore as well if we were in some sort of lower tier. I think there are millions of people out there with a similar take regarding their basketball programs as well as gambling on sports in which they are invested.
Hopefully things shake out well and we still have an opportunity to go to the big boy tournament yearly. I think that will happen. Too many eyeballs will be lost otherwise.
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The only issue with football is if all of these schools leave the NCAA and do a 30 team BIG Ten vs SEC league, blowing up the NCAA tournament. (though at least College BBall could destroy the horrible CBS contract extension.)
NIL will stick with football largely unless you are a Blue blood. Marquette will probably spend in NIL to keep guys like a Jackson Davis in a few years, but the system isn't in place yet.
There really isn't as much bleed over into College BBall as people like to think there is.
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https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/football-drove-usc-and-ucla-to-the-big-ten-but-could-eventually-mean-big-changes-in-college-basketball-too/
Which brings me to what I really want to write about -- the NCAA Tournament.
How confident are we that it'll remain untouched?
CBS and Turner have a contract to broadcast the NCAA Tournament through 2032. So we should be cool for a decade, I guess. But if the Big Ten and SEC are indeed super-sized leagues pushing a combined 50 members when that contract expires, how crazy is it to think the SEC and Big Ten could grab another league or two -- or not -- and offer networks a postseason tournament featuring nothing but schools from those leagues? Does it sound any crazier than UCLA and Rutgers being in the same conference?
Obviously not.
I recently asked a television executive about the possibility of something like this happening, and he more or less told me it would probably be more lucrative but likely be an inferior product because, just about everybody agrees, one of the things that makes the NCAA Tournament special is how all the teams from all 32 leagues have access to it. Without that, you never get Saint Peter's over Kentucky. Or George Mason to the Final Four. Or Dunk City. Or Davidson's Steph Curry becoming a star by bouncing through the bracket.
But the only thing I heard is "more lucrative."
That scares me.
Because nearly every decision the decision-makers have made when it comes to seismic changes in college athletics in recent years has been motivated by money with little regard for anything else. So while I've heard many make the case that the one thing you cannot do is mess with the NCAA Tournament because an NCAA Tournament without all 32 conferences would ruin what is arguably the best postseason tournament in American sports, I guess my question is this: What if messing with the NCAA Tournament -- and by "messing with the NCAA Tournament" I mean basically replacing it with a gigantic Big Ten/SEC Tournament that determines the "national champion" -- is more lucrative for the Big Ten and SEC?
Would they mess with it then?
Before you answer, remember, SEC commissioner Greg Sankey has already floated the idea of an SEC-only postseason tournament in football -- and if he's willing to put ending the CFP as we know it on the table, I can't imagine he's unwilling to put ending the NCAA Tournament as we know it on the table. He doesn't strike me as the sentimental type. Big Ten commissioner Kevin Warren doesn't either.
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The football water is warm. The basketball water is not in my opinion. In football, it will be the same old schools getting more money to play. Viewership won’t go down.
In basketball people like conference tournaments and challenges between conferences during the season but they don’t draw eyeballs like the NCAA tournament.
I’m of the opinion that conferences like the Big East will be fine as they will be brought along to make the tournament a true national championship and not a conference tournament.
60 football schools is not enough for a basketball championship. It won’t drive enough interest in my opinion. A ridiculous amount of people watch the tournament on the first and second weekend because of the underdog and because they want to see how their conference winner does even if it’s not their team. You can’t underestimate those eyeballs.
The Big East will make the cut for the national championship tournament in its next iteration no matter what. I think it would still take at least 200 teams to choose from to make it legitimate and keep enough viewership.
Hopefully I and others with this opinion will be right. If not, no more college basketball viewership for me.
I don't buy your theory that people won't watch. The Super Bowl still generates high ratings in St. Louis, despite the fact that St. Louis no longer has a team--not only that but their team was unceremoniously uprooted and taken from them.
Twice.
Yet they still watch because it's a major sporting event, not because "their" team is in it.
https://recentlyheard.com/2022/02/18/super-bowl-ratings-higher-in-st-louis-than-los-angeles/ (https://recentlyheard.com/2022/02/18/super-bowl-ratings-higher-in-st-louis-than-los-angeles/)
I also think you're ignoring the impact of those who will continue to hype the legitimacy of the championship, starting with the television networks that broadcast it to the conferences that still participate to their still massive fan bases. You'll be part of a small minority trying to push the "not legit" argument going up against some pretty big megaphones.
Consider a Wisconsin championship in this hypothetical future where Marquette is out of the picture.
Nearly everyone in the state will recognize that championship as legitimate. Every TV network. Every newspaper. Every sports network. Businesses throughout the state will celebrate "our team's championship" with everything from celebrations for their employees to special promotions (get your exclusive Bucky Championship T-Shirt with a fill-up at Kwik Trip!). Do you really think you'll win the argument that the championship isn't legit?
It would be disappointing for sure, but I just don't see this evolving the way you think it will.
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I can definitely see the other side of the argument. People like me will die off and the newer generations won’t know the difference. It will be like college football now.
Millions of formerly interested/invested people who will not watch due to lack of personal interest will eventually be whittled down to zero.
I’ve already told my younger kids who love CBB (in no small part due to my fandom of MU) they better hedge their bets and go to a larger state school where they can get a great education and have some guaranteed fun as an alumnus rooting for their school’s sports at the highest levels.
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Folks, I blame the jet for the mess we're in!
Really, think about it.
Historically, conferences haver been geographically based. The bounds of the conference historically have been about as far as you can travel on the ground in about a day. The SEC, for example, is largely built on the rail lines of the Southern, the L&N and the ICG. In the Big 10, the longest trip used to be between Columbus and Minneapolis, which on a charter train or bus is about a day.
It was nice because teams played nearby teams, creating rivalries. You'd go to a football (or basketball) game, network, watch the game and go home. If you are Michigan playing Ohio State or Michigan State, or us playing Notre Dame or DePaul or the Red Roadkill, it was locals getting together to blow crap on each other, watch a game, maybe have dinner and go home.
With jet travel and airlines going everywhere, what used to be a special treat, takes about as long as it would take to go from Knoxville to Athens, or Birmingham to Baton Rouge. Think about it. UCLA traveling to Rutgers is about the same time as it used to take UCLA to ride to Palo Alto or Berkeley.
It will get worse in the years ahead, when Wisconsin ends up playing UCLA instead of us. Look at how long it took to get Notre Dame back on the schedule. We used to be regular opponents for Minnesota, Iowa and even, occasionally, Illinois. Those would all be fun games but we'll never see any of those teams on our regular schedule again. They'll be too busy playing each other in conference or the dregs of the A10.
And, that's too bad!
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He left because if he didn’t make a major run in the NCAA Tournament the next year he would’ve been fired.
This site is absolutely ridiculous.
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The thought that schools or conferences will sacrifice the sport as a whole and the majority of its fanbase for individual enrichment is nothing new. See pro boxing and CART/Indy and pro golf.
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The thought that schools or conferences will sacrifice the sport as a whole and the majority of its fanbase for individual enrichment is nothing new. See pro boxing and CART/Indy and pro golf.
correct. CART, er IndyCar is just now rebounding…25 yrs after the split, yet still far behind where it once was in the sporting publics awareness.
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I do not see the NCAA tournament being scrapped for a power 5 only tournament; I could see being changed from 32 conferences to maybe 20.
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I do not see the NCAA tournament being scrapped for a power 5 only tournament; I could see being changed from 32 conferences to maybe 20.
Think of it like the World Cup qualifying process. Not every delegation gets the same amount of spots, but instead a set number. Conference tournaments will lead to another play in tournament as the lowest ranked conferences (e.g.m Oceana) will have to play a playoff game to qualify for the Dance.
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Folks, I blame the jet for the mess we're in!
Really, think about it.
Historically, conferences haver been geographically based. The bounds of the conference historically have been about as far as you can travel on the ground in about a day. The SEC, for example, is largely built on the rail lines of the Southern, the L&N and the ICG. In the Big 10, the longest trip used to be between Columbus and Minneapolis, which on a charter train or bus is about a day.
It was nice because teams played nearby teams, creating rivalries. You'd go to a football (or basketball) game, network, watch the game and go home. If you are Michigan playing Ohio State or Michigan State, or us playing Notre Dame or DePaul or the Red Roadkill, it was locals getting together to blow crap on each other, watch a game, maybe have dinner and go home.
With jet travel and airlines going everywhere, what used to be a special treat, takes about as long as it would take to go from Knoxville to Athens, or Birmingham to Baton Rouge. Think about it. UCLA traveling to Rutgers is about the same time as it used to take UCLA to ride to Palo Alto or Berkeley.
It will get worse in the years ahead, when Wisconsin ends up playing UCLA instead of us. Look at how long it took to get Notre Dame back on the schedule. We used to be regular opponents for Minnesota, Iowa and even, occasionally, Illinois. Those would all be fun games but we'll never see any of those teams on our regular schedule again. They'll be too busy playing each other in conference or the dregs of the A10.
And, that's too bad!
I agree with this analysis
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I do not see the NCAA tournament being scrapped for a power 5 only tournament; I could see being changed from 32 conferences to maybe 20.
I could see it going to 4 conferences that comprise about 70-80 teams. The top 48 get tourney bids, everyone else gets one bid each.
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I agree with this analysis
Why? Aviation predates modern basketball.
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Why? Aviation predates modern basketball.
Because heavy lift and jet powered flight did not. Take a good hard look at the size of a DC-7 or a 707 and compare it to an A-321 or a 737 Max10.
Aviation that we know today really did not take hold until the Airline Deregulation Act of 1978 and the introduction of the A320 and the current 737-800 and -900 series.
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Folks, I blame the jet for the mess we're in!
Really, think about it.
Historically, conferences haver been geographically based. The bounds of the conference historically have been about as far as you can travel on the ground in about a day. The SEC, for example, is largely built on the rail lines of the Southern, the L&N and the ICG. In the Big 10, the longest trip used to be between Columbus and Minneapolis, which on a charter train or bus is about a day.
It was nice because teams played nearby teams, creating rivalries. You'd go to a football (or basketball) game, network, watch the game and go home. If you are Michigan playing Ohio State or Michigan State, or us playing Notre Dame or DePaul or the Red Roadkill, it was locals getting together to blow crap on each other, watch a game, maybe have dinner and go home.
With jet travel and airlines going everywhere, what used to be a special treat, takes about as long as it would take to go from Knoxville to Athens, or Birmingham to Baton Rouge. Think about it. UCLA traveling to Rutgers is about the same time as it used to take UCLA to ride to Palo Alto or Berkeley.
It will get worse in the years ahead, when Wisconsin ends up playing UCLA instead of us. Look at how long it took to get Notre Dame back on the schedule. We used to be regular opponents for Minnesota, Iowa and even, occasionally, Illinois. Those would all be fun games but we'll never see any of those teams on our regular schedule again. They'll be too busy playing each other in conference or the dregs of the A10.
And, that's too bad!
You are such a Debbie Downer. With the price of Jet Fuel going through the roof and the fossil fuel industry out of business in the next decade local rivalries will be roaring back. Then again all the games on the cable networks or streaming services, as long as there are no brown outs in your area, will look like a repeat of the 20/21 season with little to no fans in the stadiums and arenas, unless you have a 60K electric car to get there. I'm sorry for being such a Debbie Downer.
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Because heavy lift and jet powered flight did not. Take a good hard look at the size of a DC-7 or a 707 and compare it to an A-321 or a 737 Max10.
Aviation that we know today really did not take hold until the Airline Deregulation Act of 1978 and the introduction of the A320 and the current 737-800 and -900 series.
Many here have insisted that Gonzaga could never join the Big East because of geography. Tell that to USC and UCLA. Maybe our intelligentsia isn’t aware of advances in aviation.p
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Many here have insisted that Gonzaga could never join the Big East because of geography. Tell that to USC and UCLA. Maybe our intelligentsia isn’t aware of advances in aviation.p
I'll bet my house that you hear USC & UCLA complain about travel in the next 5 years when the teams don't perform as well as expected. "USC lost at Rutgers..... the travel was the reason!!"
It won't change a thing, but they will complain.
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I'll bet my house that you hear USC & UCLA complain about travel in the next 5 years when the teams don't perform as well as expected. "USC lost at Rutgers..... the travel was the reason!!"
It won't change a thing, but they will complain.
The changes aren’t done yet. My hunch is, USC won’t be flying to Rutgers much and vice versa
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The changes aren’t done yet. My hunch is, USC won’t be flying to Rutgers much and vice versa
Yup most likely only meet in conference tournament or in football championship. Most likely not at all. They'll work it out.
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Not worried about any of this. My only worry today is assembling my new charcoal grill / smoker.
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Not worried about any of this. My only worry today is assembling my new charcoal grill / smoker.
What kind you get? I’m in the market.
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What kind you get? I’m in the market.
I'll be so rude as to jump in, but I've been very happy with Blaz'n Grill http://www.blazngrillworks.com/ (http://www.blazngrillworks.com/). Well built and made in America.
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Thanks. I’ll check it out.
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What kind you get? I’m in the market.
Master Built Gravity Series 800
On sale $200 off
There are also 500 & 1000 main difference is grilling area. 800 has a removable griddle the 500 doesn't.
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Master Built Gravity Series 800
On sale $200 off
There are also 500 & 1000 main difference is grilling area. 800 has a removable griddle the 500 doesn't.
Thank you.
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Thank you.
No problem if you have any ? You can PM
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I'll bet my house that you hear USC & UCLA complain about travel in the next 5 years when the teams don't perform as well as expected. "USC lost at Rutgers..... the travel was the reason!!"
It won't change a thing, but they will complain.
USC may never play Rutgers. They will not be in the same division.
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And USC and UCLA aren't the only PAC teams coming along. If the endgame is 24 teams (likely four pods of six), then a PAC pod of UCLA, USC, Oregon, Washington, Stanford and California makes a ton of sense. California can just as easily be left out for ND, who would gladly be in the PAC pod to ensure 2-3 west coast games annually (and guaranteed USC/Stanford annually).
Travel for Olympic sports can easily be condensed to limit cross country flights. The Big Ten isn't finished yet.
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And USC and UCLA aren't the only PAC teams coming along. If the endgame is 24 teams (likely four pods of six), then a PAC pod of UCLA, USC, Oregon, Washington, Stanford and California makes a ton of sense. California can just as easily be left out for ND, who would gladly be in the PAC pod to ensure 2-3 west coast games annually (and guaranteed USC/Stanford annually).
Travel for Olympic sports can easily be condensed to limit cross country flights. The Big Ten isn't finished yet.
The way I view this is similar to when the Dodgers and Giants went west in 1958.
At the time, they were the first west coast baseball teams. The next most westerly team was Kansas City and the St. Louis Cardinals.
MLB managed and eventually put four more teams on the west coast, plus teams in Denver and Phoenix. That's why I suspect the BIG has their eyes on, at least as a minimum, Washington and Oregon, California, Colorado and maybe Stanford.
Sorry Beavs and Cougs, you're still out in the cold.
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And USC and UCLA aren't the only PAC teams coming along. If the endgame is 24 teams (likely four pods of six), then a PAC pod of UCLA, USC, Oregon, Washington, Stanford and California makes a ton of sense. California can just as easily be left out for ND, who would gladly be in the PAC pod to ensure 2-3 west coast games annually (and guaranteed USC/Stanford annually).
Travel for Olympic sports can easily be condensed to limit cross country flights. The Big Ten isn't finished yet.
24 teams with 4 pods of 6. This idea makes a lot of sense. My rough draft of what that could look like.
Big 10:
East Coast Pod:
Penn State
Rutgers
Maryland
North Carolina
Duke
Virginia
MIO Pod:
Ohio State
Michigan
Michigan State
Indiana
Purdue
Notre Dame
Midwest Pod:
Nebraska
Minnesota
Iowa
Wisconsin
Illinois
Northwestern
West Coast Pod:
USC
UCLA
Cal
Stanford
Washington
Oregon
SEC
Northern Pod:
Vanderbilt
Kentucky
Tennessee
West Virginia
Arkansas
Mizzou
Southeast Pod:
Florida
Georgia
Georgia Tech
Miami (FL)
South Carolina
Clemson
Deep South Pod:
Florida State
Alabama
Auburn
LSU
Ole Miss
Mississippi State
Western Pod:
Texas
Texas A&M
Oklahoma
Colorado
Arizona State
TCU
The B1G pods line up almost perfect. High academics (minus Nebraska), coast to coast football, most of the major rivalries stay intact, and Wisconsin has an easy pod to waltz through to a championship game appearance every year. The SEC ones were a little harder to put together. I'm also not sold on Colorado, Arizona State, or TCU as the ultimate picks but I went with the largest media markets available. You could also roughly rename the B1G to the Union and the SEC to the Confederacy.
If this did play out, that would leave 10 schools in the Big 12, 7 schools in the ACC, and 4 schools in the P12. I was surprised doing this exercise how low on my list all of the B12 schools are. Now that TU and OU have left it really is a collection of 2nd, 3rd, and 4th favorite schools within their states, mostly with meh media markets.
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24 teams with 4 pods of 6. This idea makes a lot of sense. My rough draft of what that could look like.
Big 10:
East Coast Pod:
Penn State
Rutgers
Maryland
North Carolina
Duke
Virginia
MIO Pod:
Ohio State
Michigan
Michigan State
Indiana
Purdue
Notre Dame
Midwest Pod:
Nebraska
Minnesota
Iowa
Wisconsin
Illinois
Northwestern
West Coast Pod:
USC
UCLA
Cal
Stanford
Washington
Oregon
SEC
Northern Pod:
Vanderbilt
Kentucky
Tennessee
West Virginia
Arkansas
Mizzou
Southeast Pod:
Florida
Georgia
Georgia Tech
Miami (FL)
South Carolina
Clemson
Deep South Pod:
Florida State
Alabama
Auburn
LSU
Ole Miss
Mississippi State
Western Pod:
Texas
Texas A&M
Oklahoma
Colorado
Arizona State
TCU
The B1G pods line up almost perfect. High academics (minus Nebraska), coast to coast football, most of the major rivalries stay intact, and Wisconsin has an easy pod to waltz through to a championship game appearance every year. The SEC ones were a little harder to put together. I'm also not sold on Colorado, Arizona State, or TCU as the ultimate picks but I went with the largest media markets available. You could also roughly rename the B1G to the Union and the SEC to the Confederacy.
If this did play out, that would leave 10 schools in the Big 12, 7 schools in the ACC, and 4 schools in the P12. I was surprised doing this exercise how low on my list all of the B12 schools are. Now that TU and OU have left it really is a collection of 2nd, 3rd, and 4th favorite schools within their states, mostly with meh media markets.
I like this, and I think ASU and TCU would stick because, as you mention, located in large markets…and are decent football schools. I also like that basketball cheaters Kansas and Arizona are out, and your BIG west coast pod has that Conf of Champions blood-line, making Bill Walton happy.
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I like this, and I think ASU and TCU would stick because, as you mention, located in large markets…and are decent football schools. I also like that basketball cheaters Kansas and Arizona are out, and your BIG west coast pod has that Conf of Champions blood-line, making Bill Walton happy.
TCU has a shockingly large athletic budget for such a small private school. (or maybe not shocking given it's in Texas and has wealthy oil money). I think Jamie Dixon is top 20 paid coach and the football coach maybe in the top 10.
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24 teams with 4 pods of 6. This idea makes a lot of sense. My rough draft of what that could look like.
Big 10:
East Coast Pod:
Penn State
Rutgers
Maryland
North Carolina
Duke
Virginia
MIO Pod:
Ohio State
Michigan
Michigan State
Indiana
Purdue
Notre Dame
Midwest Pod:
Nebraska
Minnesota
Iowa
Wisconsin
Illinois
Northwestern
West Coast Pod:
USC
UCLA
Cal
Stanford
Washington
Oregon
SEC
Northern Pod:
Vanderbilt
Kentucky
Tennessee
West Virginia
Arkansas
Mizzou
Southeast Pod:
Florida
Georgia
Georgia Tech
Miami (FL)
South Carolina
Clemson
Deep South Pod:
Florida State
Alabama
Auburn
LSU
Ole Miss
Mississippi State
Western Pod:
Texas
Texas A&M
Oklahoma
Colorado
Arizona State
TCU
The B1G pods line up almost perfect. High academics (minus Nebraska), coast to coast football, most of the major rivalries stay intact, and Wisconsin has an easy pod to waltz through to a championship game appearance every year. The SEC ones were a little harder to put together. I'm also not sold on Colorado, Arizona State, or TCU as the ultimate picks but I went with the largest media markets available. You could also roughly rename the B1G to the Union and the SEC to the Confederacy.
If this did play out, that would leave 10 schools in the Big 12, 7 schools in the ACC, and 4 schools in the P12. I was surprised doing this exercise how low on my list all of the B12 schools are. Now that TU and OU have left it really is a collection of 2nd, 3rd, and 4th favorite schools within their states, mostly with meh media markets.
The B1G would trounce the SEC in basketball if this panned out. If the remaining schools formed their own conference it would be meh in football but respectful if not formidable in basketball. They would also get more media money keeping their football programs then going their own way or joining the Big East.
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24 teams with 4 pods of 6. This idea makes a lot of sense. My rough draft of what that could look like.
Big 10:
East Coast Pod:
Penn State
Rutgers
Maryland
North Carolina
Duke
Virginia
MIO Pod:
Ohio State
Michigan
Michigan State
Indiana
Purdue
Notre Dame
Midwest Pod:
Nebraska
Minnesota
Iowa
Wisconsin
Illinois
Northwestern
West Coast Pod:
USC
UCLA
Cal
Stanford
Washington
Oregon
SEC
Northern Pod:
Vanderbilt
Kentucky
Tennessee
West Virginia
Arkansas
Mizzou
Southeast Pod:
Florida
Georgia
Georgia Tech
Miami (FL)
South Carolina
Clemson
Deep South Pod:
Florida State
Alabama
Auburn
LSU
Ole Miss
Mississippi State
Western Pod:
Texas
Texas A&M
Oklahoma
Colorado
Arizona State
TCU
The B1G pods line up almost perfect. High academics (minus Nebraska), coast to coast football, most of the major rivalries stay intact, and Wisconsin has an easy pod to waltz through to a championship game appearance every year. The SEC ones were a little harder to put together. I'm also not sold on Colorado, Arizona State, or TCU as the ultimate picks but I went with the largest media markets available. You could also roughly rename the B1G to the Union and the SEC to the Confederacy.
If this did play out, that would leave 10 schools in the Big 12, 7 schools in the ACC, and 4 schools in the P12. I was surprised doing this exercise how low on my list all of the B12 schools are. Now that TU and OU have left it really is a collection of 2nd, 3rd, and 4th favorite schools within their states, mostly with meh media markets.
Definitely on the right path. For the SEC, assuming they don't get UNC/Virginia/Duke, they will for sure target NC State and Virginia Tech. Georgia Tech is a given because it is in Atlanta and at the heart of SEC country. Miami and Louisville are wild cards because of their urban status within states that the league already covers, but both are strong fits as well. Moving west, solidifying Dallas with a TCU/OK State package makes a lot of sense as well.
Ultimately, to get to 24, I'd predict:
Clemson
FSU
GA Tech
NC State
VA Tech
OK State
TCU
Louisville (or Miami, depending on Florida politics)
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The B1G would trounce the SEC in basketball if this panned out. If the remaining schools formed their own conference it would be meh in football but respectful if not formidable in basketball. They would also get more media money keeping their football programs then going their own way or joining the Big East.
Yep. If it played out that way, I don't see the B12 breaking up. I do see the B12 as a football also ran that will be treated as a second class citizen. I also think that the B12 and BEast would be the second and third best basketball conferences, especially if they pick up the best of the leftovers of the ACC and P12. I don't see either the B12 or BEast getting left out of a basketball tournament in that scenario.
I don't know how this will all play out (no one has predicted every step of realignment correctly). I do know that Kansas is kicking the tires on pulling a UConn to join the BEast. I don't think it happens anytime soon but it sounds like they are doing their due diligence. But the Big East should be doing everything it can to add top basketball properties over the next few years.
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Thank you.
Check out Green Mountain too. Mine has a rotisserie and can get to 550 degrees. Less expensive too…… by about $800. Probably not as durable as the Blaz’n Grill. That looks very durable and well made.
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Many here have insisted that Gonzaga could never join the Big East because of geography. Tell that to USC and UCLA. Maybe our intelligentsia isn’t aware of advances in aviation.p
UCLA and USC will be raking in over $80 million a year from Big Ten TV rights fees. Gonzaga and the rest of the BE won’t be close to that.
Even with their basketball success GU doesn’t fully fund all of their sports.
I do know that Kansas is kicking the tires on pulling a UConn to join the BEast.
No, they aren’t.
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Gonzaga will be in the Big East in a year or two
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Check out Green Mountain too. Mine has a rotisserie and can get to 550 degrees. Less expensive too…… by about $800. Probably not as durable as the Blaz’n Grill. That looks very durable and well made.
I'm a big fan of Green Mountain too. Won 3 rib cookoffs with one.
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No, they aren’t.
Yes they are. Doesn't mean it's anything close to actionable or that it will rver happen. UConn kicked the tires for years before pulling the trigger. Gonzaga just as long and nothing has come of it so far
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Why? Aviation predates modern basketball.
But aren't most of us surprised that jets became a thing? Who woulda thunk it?
I'm still surprised that man-built shelters became a thing. Caves were working really well.
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Yes they are. Doesn't mean it's anything close to actionable or that it will rver happen. UConn kicked the tires for years before pulling the trigger. Gonzaga just as long and nothing has come of it so far
Bull. Where is the evidence? U in the boardroom?
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Bull. Where is the evidence? U in the boardroom?
TAMU knows his stuff. You can believe him...or don't.
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TCU has a shockingly large athletic budget for such a small private school. (or maybe not shocking given it's in Texas and has wealthy oil money). I think Jamie Dixon is top 20 paid coach and the football coach maybe in the top 10.
TCU is roughly the same size as Marquette in overall student FTE's and have comparable SAT and GPA ranges. Its enrollment is up 30% in the last 15 years following the success of football and they've built eight new dorms since 2010 to handle on-campus housing interest for what used to be a commuter school. Getting that check from the Big 12 every season hasn't hurt, either.
Even with their basketball success GU doesn’t fully fund all of their sports.
Georgetown has 30 intercollegiate sports teams and just over 800 student athletes. Of these 30 teams, only eight are fully funded: M/W basketball, M/W soccer, M/W lacrosse, and M/W track. If you on the football, baseball, or crew teams at Georgetown, for example, you're fighting above your weight class when it comes to funding and competition, but it's part of the experience. (The three sports just mentioned have some of the highest alumni giving rates at the university.) There's no way the Big East revenue stream could fully fund that number of programs.
Basketball is overfunded at Georgetown, but that's a discussion for another message board.
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TAMU knows his stuff. You can believe him...or don't.
TAMU is very well connected, but he is is a humble person and won't flaunt .....
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Bull. Where is the evidence? U in the boardroom?
Nope, I don't frequent boardrooms. I zoom into everything nowadays.
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Yep. If it played out that way, I don't see the B12 breaking up. I do see the B12 as a football also ran that will be treated as a second class citizen. I also think that the B12 and BEast would be the second and third best basketball conferences, especially if they pick up the best of the leftovers of the ACC and P12. I don't see either the B12 or BEast getting left out of a basketball tournament in that scenario.
I don't know how this will all play out (no one has predicted every step of realignment correctly). I do know that Kansas is kicking the tires on pulling a UConn to join the BEast. I don't think it happens anytime soon but it sounds like they are doing their due diligence. But the Big East should be doing everything it can to add top basketball properties over the next few years.
You really think the SEC/B1G would want to kill March madness? What conferences do you believe would get left out? That St. Peters run last year was really fun to watch. Killing the greatest National Tournament doesn't make sense to me, but realistically it is cents that drives all this.
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You really think the SEC/B1G would want to kill March madness? What conferences do you believe would get left out? That St. Peters run last year was really fun to watch. Killing the greatest National Tournament doesn't make sense to me, but realistically it is cents that drives all this.
I bet Kentucky would vote to keep St. Peter's out.
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You really think the SEC/B1G would want to kill March madness? What conferences do you believe would get left out? That St. Peters run last year was really fun to watch. Killing the greatest National Tournament doesn't make sense to me, but realistically it is cents that drives all this.
Teal?