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Author Topic: Protecting the Constitution  (Read 10268 times)

Pakuni

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Re: Protecting the Constitution
« Reply #225 on: June 26, 2022, 12:39:47 PM »
I see some states have codified legal abortions in their state constitutions like Kansas and I believe California is moving in that direction. The real battle however will be in granting personhood to the unborn. There is also a test case in Arizona that the ACLU is presently challenging. I can see some states declaring the unborn fetus a person in their state constitutions. At some point SCOTUS will have to decide that sticky issue as to when the fetus could be considered a person or not. They have already ruled that corporations have the same equal protections under the 14th amendment as individual persons do. I find it hard that 9 justices could rule that and actual human being is not a person. The challenge is at what point in development would 14th amendment equal protections for the unborn kick in.

The unintended consequences of this are mind-bogglingly stupid.
They would, for example, quite likely end in vitro fertilization and other forms of reproductive assistance.
Or what if such a clinic goes out of business? Who births and cares for the embryos?
Since obesity is a health risk for an embryo, should overweight women be charged with child endangerment if they become pregnant?
Does a pregnant woman have a right to receive parental support (retroactively, if necessary) from the baby's father?
Do businesses need to cover prenatal care for women impregnated by their workers?
Can a child sue his mother for being around secondhand smoke while pregnant?

MU82

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Re: Protecting the Constitution
« Reply #226 on: June 26, 2022, 01:07:33 PM »
I find it hard that 9 justices could rule that and actual human being is not a person.

A 9-week-old fetus is not “an actual human being.” The woman pregnant with that fetus IS an actual human being, though, and her rights were just dialed back a half-century.

But I do agree that some of these SCOTUS justices are such religious zealots that they could deny the women even more rights to control their own bodies.
There were 681 attempts to ban or restrict access to a record 1,651 different books in schools through August of this year. What books? Mainly those written by or about people of color or that deal with LGBTQ issues.

BAN ASSAULT RIFLES, NOT BOOKS!

ZiggysFryBoy

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Re: Protecting the Constitution
« Reply #227 on: June 26, 2022, 01:32:31 PM »
This is profoundly false. She did believe in eugenics, but was different than most in that she did not discuss it in racial terms, rather economic and intellectual terms. While still repulsive in retrospect, it has been rewritten by right-wing individuals as a way to discredit Planned Parenthood.

Interestingly, Sanger opposed abortion, and many of her actions around the world were designed to protect the unborn, by providing access to quality birth control so they could make their own rational decision on when it was best to have children.

Also, as opposed to racial qualifications for eugenics, the group she adamantly opposed and found to be the lowest form, were religious fanatics, who due to religious beliefs opposed birth control and in her opinion over-populated the nation with idiots that would ultimately hurt society.

Defending Sanger is a twist I didn't expect from you.

Do Woodrow Wilson next, on the next episode of defend undefendable progressives.

NCMUFan

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Re: Protecting the Constitution
« Reply #228 on: June 26, 2022, 03:34:31 PM »
If they had aborted you as a 9-week fetus, would they have killed you?  Would you still have been around seven months later?

MU82

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Re: Protecting the Constitution
« Reply #229 on: June 26, 2022, 04:39:56 PM »
If they had aborted you as a 9-week fetus, would they have killed you?  Would you still have been around seven months later?

I wouldn't know and wouldn't care.

If they had aborted Hitler or Saddam or Putin as a 9-week-old fetus, imagine how much better the world would have been.
There were 681 attempts to ban or restrict access to a record 1,651 different books in schools through August of this year. What books? Mainly those written by or about people of color or that deal with LGBTQ issues.

BAN ASSAULT RIFLES, NOT BOOKS!

muwarrior69

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Re: Protecting the Constitution
« Reply #230 on: June 26, 2022, 04:57:29 PM »
The unintended consequences of this are mind-bogglingly stupid.
They would, for example, quite likely end in vitro fertilization and other forms of reproductive assistance.
Or what if such a clinic goes out of business? Who births and cares for the embryos?
Since obesity is a health risk for an embryo, should overweight women be charged with child endangerment if they become pregnant?
Does a pregnant woman have a right to receive parental support (retroactively, if necessary) from the baby's father?
Do businesses need to cover prenatal care for women impregnated by their workers?
Can a child sue his mother for being around secondhand smoke while pregnant?

Yes they are, but none the less we could be headed in this direction.

Pakuni

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Re: Protecting the Constitution
« Reply #231 on: June 26, 2022, 05:07:36 PM »
In defense of her state's ban on abortions, even in cases of rape, incest or saving the mother's life, South Dakota's governor says it's to "build stronger families."
Because nothing builds a strong family like dying after birthing your rapist's child.

These people are monsters.

https://www.mediaite.com/news/gov-kristi-noem-defends-south-dakotas-abortion-ban-without-any-exceptions-to-build-stronger-families-not-reason-for-another-tragedy-to-occur/

MU82

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Re: Protecting the Constitution
« Reply #232 on: June 26, 2022, 05:25:22 PM »
GOP lawmaker calls Roe ruling ‘victory for white life’ as Trump rally cheers

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/06/26/mary-miller-white-life-trump-rally/?utm_campaign=wp_post_most&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_most&carta-url=https%3A%2F%2Fs2.washingtonpost.com%2Fcar-ln-tr%2F37358b0%2F62b87e16cfe8a21601c340fb%2F5f8d147cae7e8a56e5b732a4%2F29%2F72%2F62b87e16cfe8a21601c340fb&wp_cu=b1005792a416de1fbe1f17e5cf366b7d%7CB1FF71CA724A36FAE0530100007F88D6

A Republican lawmaker called the Supreme Court’s decision to overturn the nationwide right to abortion established nearly 50 years ago in Roe v. Wade a “victory for white life,” which was met with cheers at a rally held by former president Donald Trump.

“President Trump, on behalf of all the MAGA patriots in America, I want to thank you for the historic victory for white life in the Supreme Court yesterday,” Rep. Mary E. Miller (R) said at the rally Saturday night in Mendon, Ill., referring to Trump’s former campaign slogan, “Make America Great Again.”

She began clapping her hands as spectators, some clutching red “Save America” placards, also began to applaud.

Her remark drew widespread condemnation on social media, and Miller’s team swiftly issued an explanation for what it deemed to be “a mix-up of words.”

Miller’s spokesman, Isaiah Wartman, told the Associated Press that the Illinois Republican misread her prepared speech and was supposed to declare the divisive court ruling a victory for the “right to life.”

The words “white life” became a top trend on Twitter in the United States.

“Whether it was a slip or not, the audience heard ‘white life’ and didn’t flinch. They applauded,” tweeted columnist Ahmed Baba, who writes for the Independent.
There were 681 attempts to ban or restrict access to a record 1,651 different books in schools through August of this year. What books? Mainly those written by or about people of color or that deal with LGBTQ issues.

BAN ASSAULT RIFLES, NOT BOOKS!

mu_hilltopper

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Re: Protecting the Constitution
« Reply #233 on: June 26, 2022, 05:52:14 PM »
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jun/26/second-civil-war-us-abortion

"The question is no longer whether there will be a civil conflict in America. The question is how the sides will divide, and who will prevail."

tower912

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Re: Protecting the Constitution
« Reply #234 on: June 26, 2022, 05:56:53 PM »
One more step toward Christian nationalist fascism.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

forgetful

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Re: Protecting the Constitution
« Reply #235 on: June 26, 2022, 05:59:37 PM »

Do Woodrow Wilson next, on the next episode of defend undefendable progressives.

Not sure what Woodrow Wilson has to do with your patently false statements regarding Sanger.

Uncle Rico

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Re: Protecting the Constitution
« Reply #236 on: June 26, 2022, 06:01:35 PM »
One more step toward Christian nationalist fascism.

Religion, the great killer
Tis a shame, 'tis a rotton shame, for if ye can enjoy the walkin’ ye can probably enjoy the other times in yer life when ve're in between. And that's most o' the time; wouldn't ye say?

Pakuni

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Re: Protecting the Constitution
« Reply #237 on: June 26, 2022, 06:21:28 PM »
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/jun/26/second-civil-war-us-abortion

"The question is no longer whether there will be a civil conflict in America. The question is how the sides will divide, and who will prevail."

I think such talk is fearmongering.
It's not happening. At least not anytime soon, over current issues.
Unlike past civil conflicts, here and elsewhere, there's no geographical, ethnic or even major ideological divide to drive a civil war in present-day America. There's no single issue as powerful as slavery to divide people.
The reality is, the great majority of Americans have really similar views on most issues, and very, very few of us are ready and willing to kill our neighbors over the slim differences.

mu_hilltopper

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Re: Protecting the Constitution
« Reply #238 on: June 26, 2022, 06:54:28 PM »

The reality is, the great majority of Americans have really similar views on most issues, and very, very few of us are ready and willing to kill our neighbors over the slim differences.

Correct .. we're beyond the usual civil war with guns and ammo.  It'll start with the GOP winning (or not) in 2024 and California seceding, with the GOP eager to remove their 55 electoral votes from ever contaminating an election again.  No shots fired, just a lot of lawyers. 

And don't give me any of this "it can't be done" crap.   We've learned this week .. past laws are flexible depending on who is in power. 

Also, it would make for great TV.

4everwarriors

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Re: Protecting the Constitution
« Reply #239 on: June 26, 2022, 07:18:12 PM »
I'm thinkin' y'all are wrong. The divide is too great and its a bridge too far. Hopefully I'm wrong, hey?
"Give 'Em Hell, Al"

Pakuni

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Re: Protecting the Constitution
« Reply #240 on: June 26, 2022, 07:19:01 PM »
Correct .. we're beyond the usual civil war with guns and ammo.  It'll start with the GOP winning (or not) in 2024 and California seceding, with the GOP eager to remove their 55 electoral votes from ever contaminating an election again.  No shots fired, just a lot of lawyers. 

And don't give me any of this "it can't be done" crap.   We've learned this week .. past laws are flexible depending on who is in power. 

Also, it would make for great TV.

Well, I don't think that's going to happen either, but if there are no shots fired, you can't really call it a civil war, can you?
Also
<whispers> It can't be done

dgies9156

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Re: Protecting the Constitution
« Reply #241 on: June 26, 2022, 07:31:02 PM »
Correct .. we're beyond the usual civil war with guns and ammo.  It'll start with the GOP winning (or not) in 2024 and California seceding, with the GOP eager to remove their 55 electoral votes from ever contaminating an election again.  No shots fired, just a lot of lawyers. 

And don't give me any of this "it can't be done" crap.   We've learned this week .. past laws are flexible depending on who is in power. 

Also, it would make for great TV.

Are you kidding me?

For those of you who believe this, back in 1861 a group of states angry over the abolitionist movement and fearful that federal law will ban slavery forever elected to separate from the United States and form their own nation, Their philosophical view was that state law prevailed over federal law and the most perfect union was spelled out in the Articles of Confederation rather than the Constitution of the United States.

Millions of people suffered tremendously as we worked to hold our union together. Hundreds of thousands of troops died and ultimately, the Union of our nation held. We went on to become the greatest nation the world has ever seen. We continue to believe "of Many. One."

We have had a lot of challenges in our nation since. The Depression damn near destroyed our Republic as we know it. We were nearly wiped off the face of the earth during the Cuban Missile Crisis. We had to defend ourselves and the western world from Nazi and Japanese aggression. We had Watergate, Vietnam and open efforts to overthrow unfriendly nations and yet we held together. All of the problems I just described were a far greater threat to the American people than our divide over Roe vs. Wade.

It's time our nation get it together. We keep trying to govern for eight standard deviations to right or left of the mean and we scream about the most preposterous circumstances possible and somehow claim they're the norm. If we step back from the hype and the media manipulation by both sides of this issue and focus on reasonable probability, we will be fine.

We are the United States of America. We're better than the we have been acting as of late!


NCMUFan

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Re: Protecting the Constitution
« Reply #242 on: June 26, 2022, 07:59:59 PM »
You have my vote.

ChitownSpaceForRent

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Re: Protecting the Constitution
« Reply #243 on: June 26, 2022, 08:25:12 PM »
In defense of her state's ban on abortions, even in cases of rape, incest or saving the mother's life, South Dakota's governor says it's to "build stronger families."
Because nothing builds a strong family like dying after birthing your rapist's child.

These people are monsters.

https://www.mediaite.com/news/gov-kristi-noem-defends-south-dakotas-abortion-ban-without-any-exceptions-to-build-stronger-families-not-reason-for-another-tragedy-to-occur/

Yup, called this crap yesterday. Under the technicality of viable pregnancies.

Please someone try and defend this one. I unnatural carnal knowledgeing dare you.

LAZER

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Re: Protecting the Constitution
« Reply #244 on: June 26, 2022, 09:11:20 PM »
I'm thinkin' y'all are wrong. The divide is too great and its a bridge too far. Hopefully I'm wrong, hey?
If you truly think there’s going to be a Civil War I think it’s a good time reassess what news, content, and media you’re consuming. And to also just consume a lot less of it. I say this to both on left and right, because it seems people on both extremes are concerned about the potential of a Civil War.

MU82

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Re: Protecting the Constitution
« Reply #245 on: June 26, 2022, 09:14:00 PM »
One more step toward Christian nationalist fascism.

Putin, Xi, Kim, MBS and others who hate America are giddy that religious zealots are taking over our country.
There were 681 attempts to ban or restrict access to a record 1,651 different books in schools through August of this year. What books? Mainly those written by or about people of color or that deal with LGBTQ issues.

BAN ASSAULT RIFLES, NOT BOOKS!

rocket ALM surgeon

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Re: Protecting the Constitution
« Reply #246 on: June 26, 2022, 09:20:58 PM »
This is profoundly false. She did believe in eugenics, but was different than most in that she did not discuss it in racial terms, rather economic and intellectual terms. While still repulsive in retrospect, it has been rewritten by right-wing individuals as a way to discredit Planned Parenthood.

Interestingly, Sanger opposed abortion, and many of her actions around the world were designed to protect the unborn, by providing access to quality birth control so they could make their own rational decision on when it was best to have children.

Also, as opposed to racial qualifications for eugenics, the group she adamantly opposed and found to be the lowest form, were religious fanatics, who due to religious beliefs opposed birth control and in her opinion over-populated the nation with idiots that would ultimately hurt society.

   never heard this spin before...where did you hear this one forget?  the view? joyless reid?  morning joe?  gotta be a crt based whopper
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real chili 83

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Re: Protecting the Constitution
« Reply #247 on: June 26, 2022, 09:33:27 PM »
A little perspective……

ND still sucks.

Smoked meats rule.

Billy Hoyle

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Re: Protecting the Constitution
« Reply #248 on: June 26, 2022, 09:36:05 PM »
There was one, and he was killed by right wing extremists.

David Dorn, the uncle of my wife’s professional mentor and 20 year friend? Your account is certainly different than the family told her. Please expand…
« Last Edit: June 26, 2022, 09:47:38 PM by Billy Hoyle »
“You either smoke or you get smoked. And you got smoked.”

wadesworld

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Re: Protecting the Constitution
« Reply #249 on: June 26, 2022, 09:39:40 PM »
Not sure what Woodrow Wilson has to do with your patently false statements regarding Sanger.

He has egg on his face, so his only thing left to do is redirect the conversation and try to make you look like a bad human being. He’s a pro.
Black Lives Matter

 

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