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Author Topic: Happy Juneteenth Y’all  (Read 1979 times)

Hards Alumni

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Re: Happy Juneteenth Y’all
« Reply #50 on: June 23, 2022, 06:17:09 AM »
  undervalued and underpaid?  wow!  what an astute observation. so if they are overvalued, do you overpay them? you sure that's why the shortage?  nothing to do with crt and the total loss of civility and discipline in the classroom?  kids running roughshod ruining everyone else educational opportunities?   feeling safe in schools? 

 another zero for the zero.  too much tunnel vision and partisan bias.  need to expand your horizons reeko


User Name #251

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Re: Happy Juneteenth Y’all
« Reply #51 on: June 23, 2022, 07:55:25 AM »
No idea what the avg starting salary is for recent grads.  Responding to Fluffy saying Wisconsin teachers were paid less because of ACT 10 which isn’t true.


Read and learn buddy....


https://spectrumnews1.com/wi/green-bay/news/2021/06/24/act-10-and-teacher-shortage#:~:text=Act%2010%20was%20proposed%20to,of%20all%20public%20sector%20employees.

"Not only did they suffer losses in bargaining power, benefits and compensation, but they became demonized throughout the state, something that continues to some degree to this day.

“I think teachers then, and the ones who were there at Act 10 and still in the profession, still feel very vulnerable about what happened,’’ said Vickie Adkins, executive director of the Wisconsin Association of School Personnel Administrators. “They lost their voice in a lot of things and felt betrayed. Communities turned on them because I think it was easy to see public employees’ unions, teachers, as a scapegoat. And they were kind of vilified throughout that process. That hurt. That feeling of being betrayed has not gone away.’’

The third shoe to drop was a significant exodus from the teaching profession. A 2017 study by the Center for American Progress Action Fund, an independent, nonpartisan policy institute, showed that in the year prior to Act 10, the number of teachers in Wisconsin aged 55 and over who retired was at about 15%. The following school year, when Act 10 became law, the number of teachers aged 55 and older who retired rose to more than 30%. Other teachers simply left for other careers, though some teachers did return to public school classrooms as time passed."

Further down...

"The Center for American Progress, using data from the Wisconsin Department of Public Instruction from 2005-06 to 2016-17, found that in the 2015-2016 school year, Wisconsin teachers’ median combined salaries and benefits were $10,843 lower than they were before Act 10 passed."


To be fair, this article says that Act 10 may not have had as much impact on FUTURE teachers entering the profession because the national numbers are actually worse than the state numbers

"As the years have gone on, fewer high school graduates have elected to pursue education careers, which has led to a teacher shortage throughout the state. Most who work in the education field will point to Act 10 as the direct culprit. A 2020 Wisconsin Policy Forum report said that between 2012 and 2018, students enrolling in Wisconsin teacher preparation programs dropped by more than a third (33.4%), from 11,620 students to 7,739.

While there is little doubt Act 10 played some role, the decline in those entering teacher preparation programs nationwide was more dire. While state enrollment dropped 33.4% from 2012 to 2018, average U.S. enrollment dropped 39%. As well, undergraduate enrollment for all majors during that time in the University of Wisconsin system was down 6.3%.

“How much of this is due to Act 10?’’ said Adkins of the teacher shortage. “You ask a good question because I don’t know if anybody has that answer, because how do you slice and dice and prove that this percentage of what’s happening is totally due to Act 10, to the isolation of all the other influences that are going on in the market.’’
« Last Edit: June 23, 2022, 07:58:34 AM by User Name #251 »
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

lawdog77

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Re: Happy Juneteenth Y’all
« Reply #52 on: June 23, 2022, 08:09:08 AM »
Quick question, did a drop in the median salary occur because the higher paying teachers retired? Were there mass salary cuts, or starting wages lowered?

Full disclosure, I think teachers are underpaid.

User Name #251

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Re: Happy Juneteenth Y’all
« Reply #53 on: June 23, 2022, 08:12:05 AM »
Quick question, did a drop in the median salary occur because the higher paying teachers retired? Were there mass salary cuts, or starting wages lowered?

Full disclosure, I think teachers are underpaid.


That is a really good question and I don't know the answer. I do know that the cost of benefits shifted more to employees after Act 10. So THAT part of compensation went down.

But it would be an interesting study to compare inflation-adjusted salaries for teachers at similar levels.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

Jockey

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Re: Happy Juneteenth Y’all
« Reply #54 on: June 23, 2022, 09:39:22 AM »

That is a really good question and I don't know the answer. I do know that the cost of benefits shifted more to employees after Act 10. So THAT part of compensation went down.

But it would be an interesting study to compare inflation-adjusted salaries for teachers at similar levels.

You are correct. Teacher compensation declined because of benefit cuts. My daughter’s salary did not decline.

It is probable, also, that future salary declined because the law limited bargaining power for the union.

Lennys Tap

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Re: Happy Juneteenth Y’all
« Reply #55 on: June 23, 2022, 10:36:21 PM »
Fantastic goalpost shifting with that final sentence. Several of Cheeks' sock puppet accounts would approve.
Do your family members agree with your assessment of teachers' workload?

Goal post shifting? No.

To answer your question:

My wife worked in management for AT+T for 5 years until we had our first child. Long hours, very hard work. The next 20 years were spent raising our 4 children. Impossible hours, very hard work. 15 years in she started teaching - part time initially. When she wanted to go back to work full time, she was hired by the local high school as an assistant to the technology director. She loved it - rewarding work, low stress, lots of time off. After three years the tech chair took another job. He recommended my wife for his position, and the school went with his suggestion - provided my wife go back to school and get her masters degree. The next two years were as difficult as any work years for her. Full time big job by day, graduate school by night and in summer school. To complicate matter, she was diagnosed with breast cancer one semester short of her masters. She had surgery (lumpectomy) over Christmas break. She started radiation treatments in January that continued for (as I remember) 12 weeks. Throughout her treatments she continued teaching and going to school. But after she received her masters that June, it was pretty much seashells and balloons up to her retirement. Don’t recall her ever complaining of being overworked, and she loved having her summers off to recharge her batteries.

My daughter taught grammar school. Absolutely loved it, never complained about being overworked. But once she started a family she needed more $. She’s still in the field, selling Dream Box technology to school districts. Longer days, less vacations, but much more money - so trade offs. And she still loves teachers and holds them in high regard.

Since my son in education wears two hats (Principal and AP English teacher for juniors and seniors) his situation is decidedly different than most teachers. His hours are extremely long during the school year and his summer vacation lasts less than a month. He has plenty of stress and we’ve discussed that at length. But I’ve never heard him complain about his workload - he loves what he does and knows how important it is - and he’s well (and he believes fairly) compensated.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2022, 07:53:23 AM by Lennys Tap »

Pakuni

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Re: Happy Juneteenth Y’all
« Reply #56 on: June 24, 2022, 08:12:02 AM »
Goal post shifting? No.

To answer your question:

That's a nice story, Lenny (no sarcasm), but no, you didn't answer my question.
But since it's clear you've chosen not to, I'll drop it.

Pakuni

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Re: Happy Juneteenth Y’all
« Reply #57 on: June 24, 2022, 08:27:53 AM »
Probably not the best Juneteenth-related business strategy.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/06/23/us/allstate-progressive-juneteenth/index.html

Goose

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Re: Happy Juneteenth Y’all
« Reply #58 on: June 24, 2022, 10:40:25 AM »
Lenny

Great post. This is when Pakuni and other guys usually move to a new topic, thanks for ending their side of the conversation.

Hards Alumni

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Re: Happy Juneteenth Y’all
« Reply #59 on: June 24, 2022, 10:43:09 AM »
Lenny

Great post. This is when Pakuni and other guys usually move to a new topic, thanks for ending their side of the conversation.

Lenny's anecdotal experience means nothing... except that his family is fine with being kicked around, I guess.

My family is loaded with educators who feel the exact opposite from what Lenny is reporting.  But that is anecdotal as well, so it's also meaningless.

I know you know this, but you're just going to choose to ignore it.

Pakuni

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Re: Happy Juneteenth Y’all
« Reply #60 on: June 24, 2022, 10:44:19 AM »
Lenny

Great post. This is when Pakuni and other guys usually move to a new topic, thanks for ending their side of the conversation.



Lenny told a charming family story as a means of dodging my question - twice - because we both know the answer.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2022, 10:46:07 AM by Pakuni »

Goose

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Re: Happy Juneteenth Y’all
« Reply #61 on: June 24, 2022, 10:57:19 AM »
Pakuni

He answered your question, his family has had a positive experience working as a teacher. He answered the workload question and stated they never complained about being overworked.

My wife was an AP Biology and Chemistry teacher at a private school for nearly twenty years and never complained about being overworked. Over the past five years she has worked for big Pharma and has stated being overworked literally on a weekly basis. New gig is much more money and much, much more work. She mentioned in the last two weeks how much she misses the workload/lifestyle of being a teacher.

Hards Alumni

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Re: Happy Juneteenth Y’all
« Reply #62 on: June 24, 2022, 11:02:16 AM »
Pakuni

He answered your question, his family has had a positive experience working as a teacher. He answered the workload question and stated they never complained about being overworked.

My wife was an AP Biology and Chemistry teacher at a private school for nearly twenty years and never complained about being overworked. Over the past five years she has worked for big Pharma and has stated being overworked literally on a weekly basis. New gig is much more money and much, much more work. She mentioned in the last two weeks how much she misses the workload/lifestyle of being a teacher.

Why doesn't she return?

Pakuni

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Re: Happy Juneteenth Y’all
« Reply #63 on: June 24, 2022, 11:03:15 AM »
Pakuni

He answered your question, his family has had a positive experience working as a teacher. He answered the workload question and stated they never complained about being overworked.

My wife was an AP Biology and Chemistry teacher at a private school for nearly twenty years and never complained about being overworked. Over the past five years she has worked for big Pharma and has stated being overworked literally on a weekly basis. New gig is much more money and much, much more work. She mentioned in the last two weeks how much she misses the workload/lifestyle of being a teacher.

Goose,
I didn't ask him if his family members complained.
I asked him if he told his family members they worked only 180 days a year. (With or without the derision).
And if he's close with people who work in education, he knows they work more than 180 days a year, which makes me wonder why he'd say otherwise here. Seems to me he was just taking an unnecessary cheap shot that he knew to be false, but maybe I'm wrong.

Uncle Rico

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Re: Happy Juneteenth Y’all
« Reply #64 on: June 24, 2022, 11:09:27 AM »
I was married to a teacher and the way she and her co-workers were treated were terrible.  They worked many extra hours for the benefits of their students and always dipped into their pockets to help the classroom experience. 

More anecdotal evidence
Tis a shame, 'tis a rotton shame, for if ye can enjoy the walkin’ ye can probably enjoy the other times in yer life when ve're in between. And that's most o' the time; wouldn't ye say?

lawdog77

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Re: Happy Juneteenth Y’all
« Reply #65 on: June 24, 2022, 11:27:43 AM »
Why doesn't she return?
Goose is spending all of their money on scoop dues and steak dinners with the underboard.

tower912

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Re: Happy Juneteenth Y’all
« Reply #66 on: June 24, 2022, 11:43:28 AM »
Pakuni

He answered your question, his family has had a positive experience working as a teacher. He answered the workload question and stated they never complained about being overworked.

My wife was an AP Biology and Chemistry teacher at a private school for nearly twenty years and never complained about being overworked. Over the past five years she has worked for big Pharma and has stated being overworked literally on a weekly basis. New gig is much more money and much, much more work. She mentioned in the last two weeks how much she misses the workload/lifestyle of being a teacher.

There is a shortage of teachers.  I am sure she could find a gig.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

Goose

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Re: Happy Juneteenth Y’all
« Reply #67 on: June 24, 2022, 12:25:56 PM »
My guess is that if she wanted to return to being a teacher, she would. That said, it would not surprise me if she had some type of academic profession a few years from now.

MU82

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Re: Happy Juneteenth Y’all
« Reply #68 on: June 24, 2022, 01:15:28 PM »
Pakuni

He answered your question, his family has had a positive experience working as a teacher. He answered the workload question and stated they never complained about being overworked.

My wife was an AP Biology and Chemistry teacher at a private school for nearly twenty years and never complained about being overworked. Over the past five years she has worked for big Pharma and has stated being overworked literally on a weekly basis. New gig is much more money and much, much more work. She mentioned in the last two weeks how much she misses the workload/lifestyle of being a teacher.

Good news: Plenty of teaching jobs available for her! Urban public schools are especially desperate for talented, motivated teachers like her.

Sounds like she’d enjoy the generous pay, the cush schedule and the easy-going work environment!
"We understand that for some reason, to people with money, to people who fund political campaigns, guns are more important than children. Today we stand for Lexi, and as her voice, we demand action."

-- Kimberly Rubio, whose daughter Lexi was among 19 schoolchildren slaughtered in Uvalde, Texas

Goose

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Re: Happy Juneteenth Y’all
« Reply #69 on: June 24, 2022, 01:40:00 PM »
82


You have gone off the reservation. For the past two years my daughter has taught exactly in that environment and did so because she wanted to make a difference. She just recently left that position to work full time for the JVC, an organization she volunteered with for several years. Neither the teaching job or JVC was chosen for generous pay or cush schedule, but rather to give back to a community.

As for my wife, #1 she has volunteered her time to tutor inner city students after teaching career ended, and #2 she has never chosen a job because of money made or level of work. Her decision to work to work in Pharma is 90% based of her wanting to be intellectually challenged. Over the past several years she has been fortunate to have worked alongside some very cutting-edge drugs and worked with special people and that is her joy.

For the record, my wife would have zero problem driving to the inner city of MKE, working on MPS wages, benefits and work schedule and would find it very rewarding. There is no way my written words could express my point enough, but my wife has never shied away from a challenge or hard work and really have never cared how much money she was paid for the job.

If you thought your last post was clever or was making a point, it was addressed to the wrong person if you were trying to make point. For the record, if my wife did work at an Urban school there is one thing I know for certain, she would not bitch about low pay or long work hours because it was a job she would have taken with her eyes wide open.

MU82

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Re: Happy Juneteenth Y’all
« Reply #70 on: June 24, 2022, 01:45:59 PM »
Glad to hear all that, Goose.

Enjoy your weekend! I’ll be enjoying mine “on the reservation.”
"We understand that for some reason, to people with money, to people who fund political campaigns, guns are more important than children. Today we stand for Lexi, and as her voice, we demand action."

-- Kimberly Rubio, whose daughter Lexi was among 19 schoolchildren slaughtered in Uvalde, Texas

Lennys Tap

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Re: Happy Juneteenth Y’all
« Reply #71 on: June 24, 2022, 01:46:41 PM »
That's a nice story, Lenny (no sarcasm), but no, you didn't answer my question.
But since it's clear you've chosen not to, I'll drop it.

My position is that 180 days of work per year is less than a brutal work schedule. My wife and children agree. If you add components to it like going to school, undergoing cancer treatments or double dipping as an administrator and teacher (as my wife and son did) it can turn brutal. Under normal circumstances (like my daughter’s), not so much.

Sorry if that didn’t come through for you in my post. Hope it’s clear now.

Goose

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Re: Happy Juneteenth Y’all
« Reply #72 on: June 24, 2022, 01:53:12 PM »
82


You will be on here on stirring the pot all weekend and I know you will find that enjoyable. Just curious, why have you become so confrontational over the past couple of years? My feeling it is to fit in with the crowd, but I might be wrong on that.

Hards Alumni

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Re: Happy Juneteenth Y’all
« Reply #73 on: June 24, 2022, 01:56:32 PM »
82


You will be on here on stirring the pot all weekend and I know you will find that enjoyable. Just curious, why have you become so confrontational over the past couple of years? My feeling it is to fit in with the crowd, but I might be wrong on that.

More than a few guys around here watch too much cable news.  I think it's pretty clear who they are.   :P

TAMU Eagle

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Re: Happy Juneteenth Y’all
« Reply #74 on: June 24, 2022, 02:03:00 PM »
My position is that 180 days of work per year is less than a brutal work schedule. My wife and children agree. If you add components to it like going to school, undergoing cancer treatments or double dipping as an administrator and teacher (as my wife and son did) it can turn brutal. Under normal circumstances (like my daughter’s), not so much.

Sorry if that didn’t come through for you in my post. Hope it’s clear now.

So you are doubling down on the idea that teachers only work 180 days a year. As a father and spouse of teachers you should know that's not accurate.
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference.

~Prayer of the Scooper