Poor LBJ

[jesmu84]

The floor is much higher in the US.  There are myriad problems here, but even the lower 25% have it far far better than many of the countries they immigrate from.  Thats not to say its perfect and above all other countries, but there is a reason for mass immigration here.

Business opportunity is also substantially higher.  I know at least a dozen successful business people from fairly high standard of living European and Asian countries that came to the US for business opportunities.

Look at the top 20 countries in the world by population.  Which would you rather live in than the US, upbringing and patriotism aside.  Germany and maybe Japan?  The latter of which is incredibly expensive all over, even by US standards.

Me personally? Off the top of my head...any of the Nordics, Spain, Portugal

Ya, not top 20 population.

[jesmu84]

On another point brought up in this room, regarding criticizing China because we fail to see our own failings -- give me a break gang. Labor practices that we outlawed a century ago are prevalent there. Things like worker safety, 40 hour work weeks, child labor are hardly the norm here but prevalent there. And for those of you concerned about polluting the environment, the United States is light years ahead of China in environmental preservation, emissions controls and environmental regulation. It's not even close.

I'm glad you mention these things. I could see them going away in the US under the right circumstances. They are, after all, government imposing its will in private enterprise.

[Jockey]

The floor is much higher in the US.  There are myriad problems here, but even the lower 25% have it far far better than many of the countries they immigrate from.  Thats not to say its perfect and above all other countries, but there is a reason for mass immigration here.

Business opportunity is also substantially higher.  I know at least a dozen successful business people from fairly high standard of living European and Asian countries that came to the US for business opportunities.

Look at the top 20 countries in the world by population.  Which would you rather live in than the US, upbringing and patriotism aside.  Germany and maybe Japan?  The latter of which is incredibly expensive all over, even by US standards.

Of course you are right. People from around the world still want to come here.

[dgies9156]

I'm glad you mention these things. I could see them going away in the US under the right circumstances. They are, after all, government imposing its will in private enterprise.

Brother Jesmu:

Are you serious?

Sure, I could see an autocratic leader backed by a compliant Congress do something this crazy. HOWEVER, this is America! We don't do things like that here.

Yeah, some things may change at the edges but child labor aint gonna happen. Working conditions have to be safe and the only way the 40 hour work week is going is down to 35.

You know, you mentioned earlier that you'd prefer the Nordic Countries or the Iberian Peninsula to our country. Good luck. Gaining citizenship and full access to all the rights of a native in those countries is hard, if not impossible. And how are you, as a foreigner, going to work there except as an American ex-pat?

Dude, both my children were adopted from overseas. The United States is about the only country in the world that would grant my children the level of citizenship and commitment that both of my children have received. My daughter became a citizen two years after she arrived in this country. My son a year.

I have said many times that the greatest gift my wife and we ever gave our children was American Citizenship. I stand behind that belief 1000 percent!

In case you question that view, the hospital in which my son was born was bombed by the Russians recently and 60 innocent lives were taken. A month after we adopted my son, the orphanage director was arrested and 32 bodies of small children less than two years of age were dug up in the back yard. All had died of malnutrition and food poisoning. My daughter is a child of Chernobyl, having been born 60 miles northeast of Chernobyl.

These things don't happen in the United States. Period. Sure, we have our problems as I said before. But as Brother JWags said, poverty in the United States means something totally different than in the rest of the world. If you don't believe me, I have some garden spots in Ukraine and Belarus I'd encourage you to visit!

[MU82]

Look at the top 20 countries in the world by population.  Which would you rather live in than the US, upbringing and patriotism aside.

None. I want us to fix our problems here.

[dgies9156]

None. I want us to fix our problems here.

On that score, we agree. Not sure we agree on the approach but no matter we get there, as long as we get there, you and I both will be happy!

[rocket surgeon]

Brother Jesmu:

Are you serious?

Sure, I could see an autocratic leader backed by a compliant Congress do something this crazy. HOWEVER, this is America! We don't do things like that here.

Yeah, some things may change at the edges but child labor aint gonna happen. Working conditions have to be safe and the only way the 40 hour work week is going is down to 35.

You know, you mentioned earlier that you'd prefer the Nordic Countries or the Iberian Peninsula to our country. Good luck. Gaining citizenship and full access to all the rights of a native in those countries is hard, if not impossible. And how are you, as a foreigner, going to work there except as an American ex-pat?

Dude, both my children were adopted from overseas. The hospital in which my son was born was bombed by the Russians recently and 60 innocent lives were taken. A month after we adopted my son, the orphanage director was arrested and 32 bodies of small children less than two years of age were dug up in the back yard. All had died of malnutrition and food poisoning. My daughter is a child of Chernobyl, having been born 60 miles northeast of Chernobyl.

These things don't happen in the United States. Period. Sure, we have our problems as I said before. But as Brother JWags said, poverty in the United States means something totally different than in the rest of the world. If you don't believe me, I have some garden spots in Ukraine and Belarus I'd encourage you to visit!

  thank you for posting this brother dog, but sorry to hear the things you had to see/experience in order to make some very good points most of us cannot even begin to comprehend.  on the other hand, God bless you and your family for the 2 lives you most probably saved from some incredibly savage conditions.  that is one helluva story man! 

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

"On another point brought up in this room, regarding criticizing China because we fail to see our own failings -- give me a break gang. Labor practices that we outlawed a century ago are prevalent there. Things like worker safety, 40 hour work weeks, child labor are hardly the norm here but prevalent there. And for those of you concerned about polluting the environment, the United States is light years ahead of China in environmental preservation, emissions controls and environmental regulation. It's not even close."

I always get sent these annual questionnaires/surveys from my International customers asking these questions.  "Does your company have a policy......"

WTF?  Of course we do.  It's against USA law and we don't need a policy!.

[dgies9156]

  thank you for posting this brother dog, but sorry to hear the things you had to see/experience in order to make some very good points most of us cannot even begin to comprehend.  on the other hand, God bless you and your family for the 2 lives you most probably saved from some incredibly savage conditions.  that is one helluva story man!

Don't be sorry. Work to change them throughout the world. We can all do better. I sincerely appreciate the fact that's lost on most Americans that we can't comprehend the conditions from which my children came. I would never have believed it. Period. Until my wife and I saw it first hand.

You don't know the half of it! I can say with confidence that when we were in Frankfurt on our way home and we turned the corner to the overseas terminal and saw the 777 with the U.S. flag and the registration N783UA, all I could say was, "Thank God!"

God did bless us -- with two incredible children. Both of my children overcame serious learning disabilities to get college degrees from a major regional university. My daughter works in Denver as a graphic designer and my son is in management training at the Home Depot near Chicago.

[jesmu84]

Sure, I could see an autocratic leader backed by a compliant Congress do something this crazy. HOWEVER, this is America! We don't do things like that here.

Yeah, some things may change at the edges but child labor aint gonna happen. Working conditions have to be safe and the only way the 40 hour work week is going is down to 35.

Lol. Sure. EPA hasn't been defanged at all

Further, I don't think it would be anything authoritarian at all. If we had an outright libertarian president and the Congress to support them, we might say goodbye to a lot of government regulation/oversight.

[Goose]

dgies

Thanks for sharing more detail on the adoption of your two children. I am really happy to hear that your grown kids are doing well in life. You are a good man!!!

[JWags85]

Lol. Sure. EPA hasn't been defanged at all

Further, I don't think it would be anything authoritarian at all. If we had an outright libertarian president and the Congress to support them, we might say goodbye to a lot of government regulation/oversight.

If you honestly believe child labor and early 1900s working conditions would ever come back, regardless of the president, you're a special kind of Chicken Little.

[Pakuni]

If you honestly believe child labor and early 1900s working conditions would ever come back, regardless of the president, you're a special kind of Chicken Little.

If by child labor, you mean 7-year-olds working 12-hour shifts on factory floors, you're right. That's not coming back.
But there's been some backsliding in recent years, with Wisconsin helping to lead the way in putting younger kids to work for longer hours.

US employers are recruiting teenaged workers to solve their difficulties in hiring and retaining workers, and some Republicans and industry groups are pushing for looser child labor laws to allow those industries to put teens to work for longer hours.

https://www.theguardian.com/law/2021/nov/02/child-labor-laws-weakened-us-industries-teens

[JWags85]

If by child labor, you mean 7-year-olds working 12-hour shifts on factory floors, you're right. That's not coming back.
But there's been some backsliding in recent years, with Wisconsin helping to lead the way in putting younger kids to work for longer hours.

US employers are recruiting teenaged workers to solve their difficulties in hiring and retaining workers, and some Republicans and industry groups are pushing for looser child labor laws to allow those industries to put teens to work for longer hours.

https://www.theguardian.com/law/2021/nov/02/child-labor-laws-weakened-us-industries-teens

Backsliding isn't what Jesu was referring to though.  Dgies was pointing to places that are archaic in their approach to labor, compared to the US, and he was like "well in the right circumstances we wouldn't be that different than them" which is just ridiculous.

[Spotcheck Billy]

If by child labor, you mean 7-year-olds working 12-hour shifts on factory floors, you're right. That's not coming back.
But there's been some backsliding in recent years, with Wisconsin helping to lead the way in putting younger kids to work for longer hours.

US employers are recruiting teenaged workers to solve their difficulties in hiring and retaining workers, and some Republicans and industry groups are pushing for looser child labor laws to allow those industries to put teens to work for longer hours.

https://www.theguardian.com/law/2021/nov/02/child-labor-laws-weakened-us-industries-teens

Sure, rather than paying workers more $ they'd rather pay children peanuts and have them fill their schedules with longer hours. Yeah America!

[jesmu84]

If you honestly believe child labor and early 1900s working conditions would ever come back, regardless of the president, you're a special kind of Chicken Little.

Returning to 1900s working conditions/labor laws? No.

Eliminating much environmental regulation? Yes.

[dgies9156]

Returning to 1900s working conditions/labor laws? No.

Eliminating much environmental regulation? Yes.

Brother Jesmu:

Huh?

Try to locate, expand or modify any manufacturing or processing facility in the US and you’ll see how little backtracking we have done.

Look at the quality of your water and ask how much backtracking we’ve done. Or the amount of raw sewage in our waterways. And look at what we have done with toxic waste.

We’ve done great compared to 40 or 50 years ago. Too bad you Millennials have no institutional knowledge of where we were and are.

[Hards Alumni]

Brother Jesmu:

Huh?

Try to locate, expand or modify any manufacturing or processing facility in the US and you’ll see how little backtracking we have done.

Look at the quality of your water and ask how much backtracking we’ve done. Or the amount of raw sewage in our waterways. And look at what we have done with toxic waste.

We’ve done great compared to 40 or 50 years ago. Too bad you Millennials have no institutional knowledge of where we were and are.

Millennials are 40 years old.  Don't be such a boomer, homie.

[jesmu84]

Brother Jesmu:

Huh?

Try to locate, expand or modify any manufacturing or processing facility in the US and you’ll see how little backtracking we have done.

Look at the quality of your water and ask how much backtracking we’ve done. Or the amount of raw sewage in our waterways. And look at what we have done with toxic waste.

We’ve done great compared to 40 or 50 years ago. Too bad you Millennials have no institutional knowledge of where we were and are.

Is it your contention that there has not been deregulation of the environment in the recent past?

[#UnleashSean]

Millennials are 40 years old.  Don't be such a boomer, homie.

Sir I still have 6 months til 30 thank you!

[JWags85]

Is it your contention that there has not been deregulation of the environment in the recent past?

Do you have experience with industrial regulations around the world and how the US stacks up compared to their competitors?  Or just reading some stuff online?

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Do you have experience with industrial regulations around the world and how the US stacks up compared to their competitors?  Or just reading some stuff online?
[/quFYI.

Jesmu84 is more of a YouTube economist.

There are a lot of teenagers out there that have to work to support their families.  Parents are disabled, addicted, absent, etc.    Like so many other things, covid exacerbated this problem.

Other kids want to work. It's good for them.  A lot of the issues in the millennial generation is their lack of work ethic.  (Tossed that bomb just for hards.)

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Do you have experience with industrial regulations around the world and how the US stacks up compared to their competitors?  Or just reading some stuff online?

C'mon Wags, you are better than that.

Starter list:
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/climate/trump-environment-rollbacks-list.html

[jesmu84]

Do you have experience with industrial regulations around the world and how the US stacks up compared to their competitors?  Or just reading some stuff online?

I have never mentioned anything about US regulations vs other countries.

One poster implied we (USA) hadn't backtracked in our environmental regulations. I was asking for clarification.

[JWags85]

C'mon Wags, you are better than that.

Starter list:
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/climate/trump-environment-rollbacks-list.html

I never once said there weren't rollbacks.  I did push back against notions of what the international manufacturing climate is actually like.

Its totally ok to expect more from the US.  But Jesu started with saying, essentially, with the "right" leadership, the US could be no better than places like China or the like with truly deplorable working conditions and environmental destruction.

Then he walked back to "lol the EPA is defanged".

Then when dgies correctly pointed out regulations or water quality standards here...he responded with "do you think there hasn't been any backtrack".  Which is exactly what he's been doing.

I'm very pro-environment.  While I'm very pro-business/free market, I'm not in favor of unchecked environmental damage, pollution, dumping, etc...  However, Ive spent the last 6-7 years seeing manufacturing and industrial in places like China, India, Thailand, Indonesia, Vietnam, and others.  The US looks like a Green Party wet dream compared to the places where the US loses manufacturing to.  That doesn't mean the US can't be better and should be working from a much different standard...but it does mean pretending or insinuating the US's issues or standards are in anywhere near a similar realm means you're entirely ignorant in order to push an agenda.  Hence why I asked if he has any experience.