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Author Topic: Poor LBJ  (Read 2702 times)

MU Fan in Connecticut

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Re: Poor LBJ
« Reply #125 on: June 09, 2022, 12:11:40 PM »
Nuclear power is perfectly safe, and should be widely adopted by the US to replace all of the carbon plants and to stabilize the grid when renewables are not available.

Keep building more!

We should have never stopped building them.  Too many people confused our plants with the absolutely crappy Russian design and nuclear weapons. 

Nuclear plant protests almost killed my Dad's employer, UI in the 80's when protestors tried to shut down Seabrook in New Hampshire. 
(I figure MU82 will like the UI reference.)

MU Fan in Connecticut

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Re: Poor LBJ
« Reply #126 on: June 09, 2022, 12:13:15 PM »
It took awhile to come around on nuclear power but I grew up in the 80’s when we lived post-Three Mile, through Chernobyl and the constant threat of nuclear war being debated.  There are inherent risks, however, it’s the most sensible to me and most sustainable.

And France and Japan have never had an issue (and I don't count the tsunami because one would expect that to kill everything).

jesmu84

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Re: Poor LBJ
« Reply #127 on: June 09, 2022, 12:13:40 PM »
With regard to the U.S. going "backward," the question must be asked on what?

If you're asking whether the U.S. will be part of the Paris Climate Accords should a Republican become President in 2025, the answer probably is "no!" Does it mean the U.S. is suddenly going to become A much more polluted, dangerous place? Absolutely not.

Different administrations emphasize different things. We may not be as forceful on some issues at certain times. But emphasis and retreat are two very different things.

When we are compared to our Western Europe and Asian compatriots, the question has to be asked what the benchmarks are. For example, many cite the commitment of Europe and Asia to high-speed rail and compare its relatively favorable environmental impact to our commitment to airplanes and cars, which has a potentially much more debilitating impact than rail. Yet, because of population density, high speed rail works in Europe and parts of Asia but outside of the East Coast and, soon, Florida, Texas and LA, it doesn't work here.

Likewise, in France, for example. more than half the electricity produced comes from nuclear power. No emissions. No greenhouse gases and if cooling towers are used, no debilitating waterway impact. We have not initiated a new nuclear plant since Three Mile Island in 1979 and, unlike France, have made no commitment to spent fuel storage. So we look worse on power generation... but are we?

Try to build a nuclear plant anywhere in the US and watch what happens.

I could go on but unless your taking air and water measurements of contaminates per liter or something like that, the studies are opinions and quite subjective.

Headinthesand.gif

Hards Alumni

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Re: Poor LBJ
« Reply #128 on: June 09, 2022, 12:42:24 PM »
And France and Japan have never had an issue (and I don't count the tsunami because one would expect that to kill everything).

A newer designed reactor would have been fine, but Fukushima was commissioned in 1971... and it was an old design.

Also, the company who ran the plant ignored safety recommendations that could have prevented the disaster.

Also, I'd be 100% on board with nationalizing the nuclear sector.  National Security and all that.   8-)


dgies9156

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Re: Poor LBJ
« Reply #130 on: June 09, 2022, 02:17:33 PM »
https://time.com/4700311/donald-trump-white-house-counsel-steve-bannon/

https://www-vox-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.vox.com/platform/amp/policy-and-politics/2018/4/25/17275566/congressional-review-act-what-regulations-has-trump-cut?amp_gsa=1&amp_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQKKAFQArABIIACAw%3D%3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16548008265499&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.vox.com%2Fpolicy-and-politics%2F2018%2F4%2F25%2F17275566%2Fcongressional-review-act-what-regulations-has-trump-cut

No rollbacks/backtracking/deregulation

To be fair, this was a quick Google search. That said, I don't think it's particular to GOP. I think it's a reflection of corporate influence over politics. And Dems aren't without their share of blame.

Brother Jesmu:

You make the assumption that if we reduce or eliminate regulations, we are backtracking. I don't doubt that the last four administrations have eliminated regulation that I wished they hadn't done (and I'm just a bit more conservative than you are). But that doesn't mean we aren't committed to the values in our laws.

Sometimes these regulations become weaponized. A couple decades ago,  Murphy Oil wanted to make changes in the environmental control system at Wisconsin's only oil refinery. It was in Superior and the Wisconsin DNR told Murphy that to make the ECS changes required by the EPA, they'd have to clean up PCBs left in the Allouez Bay by the Northern Pacific railroad decades before the refinery was even built. The matter was a regulatory issue because Murphy was going to marginally exceed effluent limitations on two days.

Murphy, of course, balked at cleaning up someone else's problem. The DNR dug in and told them either to clean it up or close the refinery. Had the DNR prevailed, some of the highest paying jobs in Superior would have been gone. On the other hand, the refinery was the only oil refinery in Wisconsin and required the DNR to learn about petroleum refining regulation and to regulate a facility that very easily could get regulatory mud on the DNR.

Fortunately, cooler heads prevailed, the refinery stayed open and the DNR's over-reach was over-ridden by the federal government. But it took a lot of effort by State, County and local officials to get it done.

Brother Jesmu, I'm guessing you would see this as backsliding. I see it as real-world compromise on a matter that didn't change the overall environment of the Northland a bit.

TSmith34

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Re: Poor LBJ
« Reply #131 on: June 09, 2022, 02:28:32 PM »
On a semi related topic, why don't we have more desalinization plants?
Crossover with the investing thread, but this is my desalinization play
https://www.nasdaq.com/market-activity/stocks/erii
Pooba of Biggot Buffons

rocky_warrior

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Re: Poor LBJ
« Reply #132 on: June 09, 2022, 03:43:58 PM »
Man, I know you guys frequently go off topic.  But it's been a wild ride lately.  This reads like NM.
“Normal is an illusion. What's normal for the spider is chaos for the fly.”  -Morticia Addams

jesmu84

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Re: Poor LBJ
« Reply #133 on: June 09, 2022, 04:20:26 PM »
Brother Jesmu:

You make the assumption that if we reduce or eliminate regulations, we are backtracking. I don't doubt that the last four administrations have eliminated regulation that I wished they hadn't done (and I'm just a bit more conservative than you are). But that doesn't mean we aren't committed to the values in our laws.

Sometimes these regulations become weaponized. A couple decades ago,  Murphy Oil wanted to make changes in the environmental control system at Wisconsin's only oil refinery. It was in Superior and the Wisconsin DNR told Murphy that to make the ECS changes required by the EPA, they'd have to clean up PCBs left in the Allouez Bay by the Northern Pacific railroad decades before the refinery was even built. The matter was a regulatory issue because Murphy was going to marginally exceed effluent limitations on two days.

Murphy, of course, balked at cleaning up someone else's problem. The DNR dug in and told them either to clean it up or close the refinery. Had the DNR prevailed, some of the highest paying jobs in Superior would have been gone. On the other hand, the refinery was the only oil refinery in Wisconsin and required the DNR to learn about petroleum refining regulation and to regulate a facility that very easily could get regulatory mud on the DNR.

Fortunately, cooler heads prevailed, the refinery stayed open and the DNR's over-reach was over-ridden by the federal government. But it took a lot of effort by State, County and local officials to get it done.

Brother Jesmu, I'm guessing you would see this as backsliding. I see it as real-world compromise on a matter that didn't change the overall environment of the Northland a bit.

I don't see one anecdote as evidence of anything.

MUeng

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Re: Poor LBJ
« Reply #134 on: June 09, 2022, 06:14:26 PM »
On a semi related topic, why don't we have more desalinization plants?
my understanding is that they consume extraordinary amounts of power and damage marine life. Gotta be ways to re-engineer the implementation though, who knows, beyond me

MU82

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Re: Poor LBJ
« Reply #135 on: June 10, 2022, 11:39:04 AM »
“I made it clear I did not agree with the idea of saying the election was stolen … which I told the president was total bullish!t.” - Bill Barr

“I respect Attorney General Barr, so I accepted what he was saying.” - Ivanka Trump

“That must have been a bittersweet moment for the president. She finally screwed him.” - Stephen Colbert

Biggest laugh line from The Late Show monologue last night!
"We understand that for some reason, to people with money, to people who fund political campaigns, guns are more important than children. Today we stand for Lexi, and as her voice, we demand action."

-- Kimberly Rubio, whose daughter Lexi was among 19 schoolchildren slaughtered in Uvalde, Texas

Hards Alumni

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Re: Poor LBJ
« Reply #136 on: June 10, 2022, 12:19:16 PM »
“I made it clear I did not agree with the idea of saying the election was stolen … which I told the president was total bullish!t.” - Bill Barr

“I respect Attorney General Barr, so I accepted what he was saying.” - Ivanka Trump

“That must have been a bittersweet moment for the president. She finally screwed him.” - Stephen Colbert

Biggest laugh line from The Late Show monologue last night!

That ought to cap off this thread.

Self control.

MU82

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Re: Poor LBJ
« Reply #137 on: June 10, 2022, 12:35:09 PM »
That ought to cap off this thread.

It's been such a fine thread, right from the opening post.

"We understand that for some reason, to people with money, to people who fund political campaigns, guns are more important than children. Today we stand for Lexi, and as her voice, we demand action."

-- Kimberly Rubio, whose daughter Lexi was among 19 schoolchildren slaughtered in Uvalde, Texas

Jockey

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Re: Poor LBJ
« Reply #138 on: June 10, 2022, 03:48:37 PM »
That ought to cap off this thread.

Self control.

Jokes always take precedence. Always.

Spaniel with a Short Tail

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Re: Poor LBJ
« Reply #139 on: June 10, 2022, 10:57:35 PM »
It took awhile to come around on nuclear power but I grew up in the 80’s when we lived post-Three Mile, through Chernobyl and the constant threat of nuclear war being debated.  There are inherent risks, however, it’s the most sensible to me and most sustainable.

Maybe some nuclear good news for our grandkids.

https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2022/05/world/iter-nuclear-fusion-climate-intl-cnnphotos/

MU Fan in Connecticut

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Re: Poor LBJ
« Reply #140 on: June 11, 2022, 07:30:42 AM »
Maybe some nuclear good news for our grandkids.

https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2022/05/world/iter-nuclear-fusion-climate-intl-cnnphotos/

My company made the superconductor wire for that project.  We're making more for the fusion project in Italy, DTT.  Our China plant will be making for the China fusion project.

 

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