MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: 4everwarriors on June 04, 2022, 08:07:26 PM
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Dis kountry has bin sew terrible fore him. 'merica, aina?
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Dis kountry has bin sew terrible fore him. 'merica, aina?
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/06/04/lebron-james-becomes-first-active-nba-player-billionairethe-money-lesson-he-learned-as-a-kid.html
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Dis kountry has bin sew terrible fore him. 'merica, aina?
So we’re at the point that you just pick out random black guys to attack?
We are all shocked.
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So we’re at the point that you just pick out random black guys to attack?
We are all shocked.
If there’s one thing I’ve learned through the years, old white dudes hate black men who have been successful pointing out racial injustice in America
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https://247sports.com/college/texas/Article/Texas-Longhorns-basketball-coach-Shaka-Smart-releases-statement-on-George-Floyds-death-147734163/
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https://www.marquette.edu/student-affairs/statement-on-black-lives.php
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he's a big hypocrite and so are all of you who support this bag of wind. what china is doing to the uyghurs is an absolute atrocity
at least the united states recognized and righted a wrong-slavery/human rights issues ...if he were serious, he'd divest all of his money from china.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/2019/10/17/lebron-james-nike-china-revenue/3989915002/
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he's a big hypocrite and so are all of you who support this bag of wind. what china is doing to the uyghurs is an absolute atrocity
at least the united states recognized and righted a wrong-slavery/human rights issues ...if he were serious, he'd divest all of his money from china.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/2019/10/17/lebron-james-nike-china-revenue/3989915002/
So you agree all American businesses should divest from China and stop manufacturing in China?
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Perhaps he needs a reminder of how great America is. Lebron is easily the most oppressed person in the history of the USA. I bet Brittney Griner misses the USA, bet she won’t talk crap about the USA if she ever gets back. Socialism and communism aren’t too great huh.
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What I’ve learned on Scoop today is that if you have success you can’t talk about ways this country needs to improve.
So STFU complaining about Joe Biden or gas prices. Someday you’ll realize how lucky you are.
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I’m soo far from a Lebron supporter…but this ain’t it man.
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So you agree all American businesses should divest from China and stop manufacturing in China?
It does have a ring to it when Lebron really did shut up and dribble when it came to China. Justice for me but not for you eh?
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Perhaps he needs a reminder of how great America is. Lebron is easily the most oppressed person in the history of the USA. I bet Brittney Griner misses the USA, bet she won’t talk crap about the USA if she ever gets back. Socialism and communism aren’t too great huh.
What do socialism or communism have to do with Brittney Griner?
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Dis kountry has bin sew terrible fore him. 'merica, aina?
I dunno, they lected im prez n nmed a freeway in Texus aftr im.
(Did I do moron speak right?)
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he's a big hypocrite and so are all of you who support this bag of wind. what china is doing to the uyghurs is an absolute atrocity
at least the united states recognized and righted a wrong-slavery/human rights issues ...if he were serious, he'd divest all of his money from china.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/2019/10/17/lebron-james-nike-china-revenue/3989915002/
2% of the United States lost their lives “righting” a human rights issue because a chunk of the country wanted to keep owning slaves.
To this date, white supremacists still roam this country and even get elected to congress and the senate. Fine people on both sides and all. We even have talking heads on a major news channel spout white replacement theory. Yeah, we righted human rights.
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A couple of things can be true at once...
1. LBJ is right to point out injustice in the United States
2. LBJ has turned a blind eye to injustice in China
3. LBJ is human, and humans are imperfect and full of all sorts of hypocrisies and inconsistencies.
4. That won't stop people from continuously pointing out #2, because they are defensive about #1.
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I’m soo far from a Lebron supporter…but this ain’t it man.
^ This
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Dis kountry has bin sew terrible fore him. 'merica, aina?
Poor Doc Dribble. Dis kountry has bin sew terrible fore him. 'merica, aina?
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Good Lord.
When I saw this thread, I thought someone wanted to write about Lyndon Baines Johnson, who served as President of the United States from 1963 to 1969.
Silly me!
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the NBA is pulled the all star game out of Charlotte because of HB2 but turns 2 very blind eyes to china's outright disdain for LGBTQ et.al lifestyle.
either shut up and dribble all or speak out and be true to ones principles
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the NBA is pulled the all star game out of Charlotte because of HB2 but turns 2 very blind eyes to china's outright disdain for LGBTQ et.al lifestyle.
either shut up and dribble all or speak out and be true to ones principles
“If you can’t do everything, you shouldn’t do anything.”
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Start up a sporting goods goliath that manufactures everything in America, rocket. Sounds like a perfect gig for you when you retire from dentistry.
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the NBA is pulled the all star game out of Charlotte because of HB2 but turns 2 very blind eyes to china's outright disdain for LGBTQ et.al lifestyle.
either shut up and dribble all or speak out and be true to ones principles
The irony is dripping from this to such a degree, the mods need to call a hazmat unit.
9 of 10
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Good Lord.
When I saw this thread, I thought someone wanted to write about Lyndon Baines Johnson, who served as President of the United States from 1963 to 1969.
Silly me!
I’ve hated LBJ since he pushed the Civil Rights Act through. Now I can’t discriminate against baby boomers. Sad!
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Poor Doc Dribble. Dis kountry has bin sew terrible fore him. 'merica, aina?
Never said that Nads. As you well know, I should not even be here. I love this country and all the opportunities it afforded me, hey?
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Never said Nads. As you well know, I should not even be here. I love this country and all the opportunities it afforded me, hey?
Love everything about it - including your president and all of your athletes - or leave it, nu?
Oh, and we must have missed the thread you started when Steve Kerr and Coach K ripped Gunmerica.
I guess their “tone” didn’t bother you.
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either shut up and dribble all or speak out and be true to ones principles
RoQQet, please post a list of everything you’ve bought in the last 3 years, both for yourself and your business, to confirm that you haven’t supported Chinese oppression.
Either that or shut up and drlll.
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I’ve hated LBJ since he pushed the Civil Rights Act through. Now I can’t discriminate against baby boomers. Sad!
Brother Rico:
I always thought I liked Lyndon Johnson because he looked at George Wallace and said, "why are you F**king your President?" Or because he named his dog Little Beagle Johnson ("LBJ") and picked the dog up by his ears. Or because his press secretary, George Reedy, taught at Marquette!
I know he escalated the Vietnam War. Or he made Napalm a household name. But geez, if he made it impossible to discriminate against Baby Boomers, then I hope he's in heaven next door to St. Peter!
Now I know why I really liked him! ;D
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“If you can’t do everything, you shouldn’t do anything.”
Pretend to care unless it hurts our bottom line?
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Pretend to care unless it hurts our bottom line?
I’m not sure the NBA is pretending to care. I have no idea. But yeah it is certainly harder to take principled stands when it affects your power or your income. Countless examples of that in history.
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Does anyone know why the NBA so frequently gets singled out for its relationship with China when it's one of just thousands of American companies that do business with China, the overwhelming number of which also take stands on social issues?
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Does anyone know why the NBA so frequently gets singled out for its relationship with China when it's one of just thousands of American companies that do business with China, the overwhelming number of which also take stands on social issues?
I have a really good idea
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But yeah it is certainly harder to take principled stands when it affects your power or your income. Countless examples of that in history.
Yep. Including by everybody commenting in this thread.
Most of us might not get "power and income" from excusing the atrocities around the world, but we sure do love saving money by buying cheap crap manufactured with slave labor in nations that oppress their own people.
Does anyone know why the NBA so frequently gets singled out for its relationship with China when it's one of just thousands of American companies that do business with China, the overwhelming number of which also take stands on social issues?
I couldn't even hazard a guess. But I'm sure the OP also had many issues with his favorite president marketing an entire line of clothing made with slave labor in a country that oppresses its people.
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https://libertyfootwear.com/
https://www.allamericanclothing.com/?gclid=Cj0KCQjwqPGUBhDwARIsANNwjV4CQst6GGS3NRisz01Td658o3kLxm5lPyMk4zlIipJxd0BvO1RHM6oaAnwxEALw_wcB
https://www.thecoolist.com/best-american-clothing-brands-made-in-the-usa/
There you go. Outfit yourself through these companies. End of problem.
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(https://resources.stuff.co.nz/content/dam/images/1/g/t/x/2/d/image.related.StuffLandscapeSixteenByNine.1420x800.1gtx11.png/1485242343999.jpg)
(sorry about image size)
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(https://resources.stuff.co.nz/content/dam/images/1/g/t/x/2/d/image.related.StuffLandscapeSixteenByNine.1420x800.1gtx11.png/1485242343999.jpg)
(sorry about image size)
That’s different
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(https://resources.stuff.co.nz/content/dam/images/1/g/t/x/2/d/image.related.StuffLandscapeSixteenByNine.1420x800.1gtx11.png/1485242343999.jpg)
(sorry about image size)
Hilarious.
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Trump ties, made in...well, you know.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R8Ddq-rA040
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That's different. Lebron might actually be a billionaire
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RoQQet, please post a list of everything you’ve bought in the last 3 years, both for yourself and your business, to confirm that you haven’t supported Chinese oppression.
Either that or shut up and drlll.
the point is 82, i criticize china vociferously and confidently. i don't make 10's of millions of $$ from china. i have no voice like the NBA or la brum or bill gates to make any difference and you know that. you pose a question to me that you know the answer to but what it tells me is that you are ok with china hating on LGBTQ and the slavery and human rights abuses they hold over the uyghurs and their populace...congratulations biggot
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the point is 82, i criticize china vociferously and confidently. i don't make 10's of millions of $$ from china. i have no voice like the NBA or la brum or bill gates to make any difference and you know that. you pose a question to me that you know the answer to but what it tells me is that you are ok with china hating on LGBTQ and the slavery and human rights abuses they hold over the uyghurs and their populace...congratulations biggot
Ah, yes, "It's OK for me, but not others! At least not others of different political views."
And thanks for the enhanced sig line.
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the point is 82, i criticize china vociferously and confidently. i don't make 10's of millions of $$ from china. i have no voice like the NBA or la brum or bill gates to make any difference and you know that. you pose a question to me that you know the answer to but what it tells me is that you are ok with china hating on LGBTQ and the slavery and human rights abuses they hold over the uyghurs and their populace...congratulations biggot
Your non-answer tells me you are ok buying product from China and supporting politicians that do business with China.
China is the scapegoat used by many because they don’t like to discuss the injustice in our country that still exists.
It’s incredibly effective because you can avoid the discussion by deflecting and somehow claiming the moral high ground. Perhaps your concern with what’s happening in China is better manifested helping end it than yelling about Lebron James on a message board. My guess is, you don’t really care. What you care about is, the messenger. That says more about you than Lebron
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Brother Rico:
I always thought I liked Lyndon Johnson because he looked at George Wallace and said, "why are you F**king your President?" Or because he named his dog Little Beagle Johnson ("LBJ") and picked the dog up by his ears. Or because his press secretary, George Reedy, taught at Marquette!
I know he escalated the Vietnam War. Or he made Napalm a household name. But geez, if he made it impossible to discriminate against Baby Boomers, then I hope he's in heaven next door to St. Peter!
Now I know why I really liked him! ;D
Boomers hate Yadi. 8-)
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the point is 82, i criticize china vociferously and confidently. i don't make 10's of millions of $$ from china. i have no voice like the NBA or la brum or bill gates to make any difference and you know that. you pose a question to me that you know the answer to but what it tells me is that you are ok with china hating on LGBTQ and the slavery and human rights abuses they hold over the uyghurs and their populace...congratulations biggot
"Biggot" ... that's too precious!
I should go easy on you because you've had a tough day, roQQet, what with 5 of your Proud Boys heroes getting indicted for seditious conspiracy in connection with your god's deadly 1/6/21 coup attempt against America. With deep sympathy, I say, "Stand back and stand by."
You can ease your mind if you stop pretending you give 2 shytes about the Uyghurs or LGBTQ people.
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I'm in Dallas right now and thinking of LBJ.
I will visit Dealy Plaza tomorrow.
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the point is 82, i criticize china vociferously and confidently. i don't make 10's of millions of $$ from china. i have no voice like the NBA or la brum or bill gates to make any difference and you know that. you pose a question to me that you know the answer to but what it tells me is that you are ok with china hating on LGBTQ and the slavery and human rights abuses they hold over the uyghurs and their populace...congratulations biggot
So you're upset that LeBron James and the NBA won't take the principled stand against China that you refuse to take yourself?
Huh.
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The radio silence from Scoopers lack of outcry over 45’s inability to speak out against Russia and Putin is hysterically hypocritical.
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I'm in Dallas right now and thinking of LBJ.
I will visit Dealy Plaza tomorrow.
If you've never been to Dealey Plaza and the 6th Floor Museum, be prepared to be moved. I'm old enough to remember November 22. The 4 hours in the Museum and Plaza had the hair on the back of my neck standing up the entire time.
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LeBron's a fart in da wind. Shut up and dribble, hey?
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LeBron's a fart in da wind. Shut up and dribble, hey?
So much so that you had to start a thread about him? You're such a snowflake.
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Your non-answer tells me you are ok buying product from China and supporting politicians that do business with China.
Most of the politicians taking a "stance" against China are right of center, so Rocket is probably supporting them.
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/07/30/republicans-see-china-more-negatively-than-democrats-even-as-criticism-rises-in-both-parties/ (https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/07/30/republicans-see-china-more-negatively-than-democrats-even-as-criticism-rises-in-both-parties/)
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the point is 82, i criticize china vociferously and confidently. i don't make 10's of millions of $$ from china. i have no voice like the NBA or la brum or bill gates to make any difference and you know that. you pose a question to me that you know the answer to but what it tells me is that you are ok with china hating on LGBTQ and the slavery and human rights abuses they hold over the uyghurs and their populace...congratulations biggot
“Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye." (Matthew 7: 3-5)
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Most of the politicians taking a "stance" against China are right of center, so Rocket is probably supporting them.
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/07/30/republicans-see-china-more-negatively-than-democrats-even-as-criticism-rises-in-both-parties/ (https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/07/30/republicans-see-china-more-negatively-than-democrats-even-as-criticism-rises-in-both-parties/)
That's not at all what that poll says.
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That's not at all what that poll says.
Sorry. Meant two different points. That poll is that republicans have a less favorable opinion of china. The first point was that many far right lawmakers have a tougher stance on China (such as Marco Rubio).
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Our addiction to China can be blamed on both parties. Our government allowed China to be our supply chain and it really is on everyone involved over the past thirty years. I make living off of helping companies buy from SE Asia, and yet, I have voiced my concerns for over twenty years. I wrote letters to political officials, major business networks and manufacturing organizations around the USA and heard crickets. If it were not for national security, I would be happy to see all of them have egg on their face, but the problem is far bigger than patio furniture being delayed getting to Walmart.
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Our addiction to China can be blamed on both parties. Our government allowed China to be our supply chain and it really is on everyone involved over the past thirty years. I make living off of helping companies buy from SE Asia, and yet, I have voiced my concerns for over twenty years. I wrote letters to political officials, major business networks and manufacturing organizations around the USA and heard crickets. If it were not for national security, I would be happy to see all of them have egg on their face, but the problem is far bigger than patio furniture being delayed getting to Walmart.
Yep yep. Both parties supported it because Americans want inexpensive stuff - whether its businesses wanting cheap labor or consumers wanting the cheap product of that labor.
To be fair to everyone, economics rarely loses.
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Our addiction to China can be blamed on both parties. Our government allowed China to be our supply chain and it really is on everyone involved over the past thirty years. I make living off of helping companies buy from SE Asia, and yet, I have voiced my concerns for over twenty years. I wrote letters to political officials, major business networks and manufacturing organizations around the USA and heard crickets. If it were not for national security, I would be happy to see all of them have egg on their face, but the problem is far bigger than patio furniture being delayed getting to Walmart.
Agreed. Most don't want to know how the sausage gets made.
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Yep yep. Both parties supported it because Americans want inexpensive stuff - whether its businesses wanting cheap labor or consumers wanting the cheap product of that labor.
To be fair to everyone, economics rarely loses.
Unions were united 100% against it. But who wants to listen to the working people of this country? There were mega $$$ available to American companies.
While some Dems supported it, my guess is that the majority did not.
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Unions were united 100% against it. But who wants to listen to the working people of this country? There were mega $$$ available to American companies.
While some Dems supported it, my guess is that the majority did not.
I was going to say something similar. The China problem is a direct result of capitalism unrestrained. It is the expected outcome from such an economic system.
More Marxist/socialist principles like labor unions were adamantly opposed and fought the move to China.
It’s less a political issue then economic. The only way to prevent it would have been pretty overt socialist protectionist policies that most Americans opposed.
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Unions were united 100% against it. But who wants to listen to the working people of this country? There were mega $$$ available to American companies.
While some Dems supported it, my guess is that the majority did not.
Oh I think that is incredibly doubtful. By the time we really started relying on China, in the mid-90s, unionization rates were down near 20% and half of that was white collar unions like teachers. The Democrats in general weren't listening much to the "working people" at that time either.
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Just came out of a presentation at my trade show. Chief Procurement Officer for Prysmian Cable Group. (30,000 worldwide employees, based in Cincinnati). He ran the timeline of why the supply chain became super challenging and really it is just the perfect storm. From Feb 2020 through present things popped up every few months and we are still feeling the blowback.
1.COVID. Remote work. Global Cyber attack. 2. Transport trucking shortage. Lumber pricing Labor.
3 Gulf Freeze. Steel shortage Labor
4. Omicron surge. COVID Relief Bill. West Coast Port Congestion Labor
5. . Russia invasion of Ukraine. China '0" COVID policy. Potential WC Port strike. Labor
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China did more to help the quality of life for low and low middle income families than any government program could ever provide. It allowed a very large portion of our country to buy goods that would have been too expensive if produced in the USA. We are going to pay a hefty price for this economic shift, and it will be interesting to see how people handle it. I am afraid that low to low middle income earners are going to suffer a great deal in the next couple of years.
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China did more to help the quality of life for low and low middle income families than any government program could ever provide.
By depressing their wages and taking their jobs?
Yeah, prices for consumer goods are lower, but all the evidence shows the rise of China has had a negative effect on lower and middle class families in the U.S.
https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2021/11/02/1050999300/how-american-leaders-failed-to-help-workers-survive-the-china-shock
https://wol.iza.org/articles/trade-and-labor-makets-lessons-from-chinas-rise/long
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By depressing their wages and taking their jobs?
Yeah, prices for consumer goods are lower, but all the evidence shows the rise of China has had a negative effect on lower and middle class families in the U.S.
https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2021/11/02/1050999300/how-american-leaders-failed-to-help-workers-survive-the-china-shock
https://wol.iza.org/articles/trade-and-labor-makets-lessons-from-chinas-rise/long
Agree. I think Goose may be a little biased on this issue.
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pakuni
Have you read any of my posts on China and how it has impacted our economy over the past 25 years? I stated that allowing for cheaper good came with a hefty cost to many Americans. I am 100% for a global economy but have felt for a long time that corporate America (with government support) did a major disservice to our country.
I understand losing jobs to China, I lost mine and most of 90% my life savings when our industry moved to China virtually overnight in 2000. A multi billion dollar industry left MKE in short order and there was not one local or state politician that gave it a second thought.
My comment on making goods affordable for more people is accurate, but I still believe it was a major misstep by our government allowing it to happen. Our leaders allowed it to happen, closed their eyes and made large sums of money by doing so. I will never forget the day that former President Bill Clinton roaming the lobby of the Grand Hyatt in HK hours before he spoke on globalization to group of finance guys. The local newspaper reported he was paid in excess of a million dollars for the speech.
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pakuni
Have you read any of my posts on China and how it has impacted our economy over the past 25 years? I stated that allowing for cheaper good came with a hefty cost to many Americans. I am 100% for a global economy but have felt for a long time that corporate America (with government support) did a major disservice to our country.
I understand losing jobs to China, I lost mine and most of 90% my life savings when our industry moved to China virtually overnight in 2000. A multi billion dollar industry left MKE in short order and there was not one local or state politician that gave it a second thought.
My comment on making goods affordable for more people is accurate, but I still believe it was a major misstep by our government allowing it to happen. Our leaders allowed it to happen, closed their eyes and made large sums of money by doing so. I will never forget the day that former President Bill Clinton roaming the lobby of the Grand Hyatt in HK hours before he spoke on globalization to group of finance guys. The local newspaper reported he was paid in excess of a million dollars for the speech.
Apologies, Goose, if your previous posts have said something different than what you wrote today. I have not read all your posts on the subject, but was responding only to your statement that "China did more to help the quality of life for low and low middle income families than any government program could ever provide." I believe the opposite to be true. China's economic growth has been a boon for the upper classes in this country, but not so much the lower and working classes.
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pakuni
Have you read any of my posts on China and how it has impacted our economy over the past 25 years? I stated that allowing for cheaper good came with a hefty cost to many Americans. I am 100% for a global economy but have felt for a long time that corporate America (with government support) did a major disservice to our country.
I understand losing jobs to China, I lost mine and most of 90% my life savings when our industry moved to China virtually overnight in 2000. A multi billion dollar industry left MKE in short order and there was not one local or state politician that gave it a second thought.
My comment on making goods affordable for more people is accurate, but I still believe it was a major misstep by our government allowing it to happen. Our leaders allowed it to happen, closed their eyes and made large sums of money by doing so. I will never forget the day that former President Bill Clinton roaming the lobby of the Grand Hyatt in HK hours before he spoke on globalization to group of finance guys. The local newspaper reported he was paid in excess of a million dollars for the speech.
I am not sure I understand your train of thought here. Capitalist private companies decided to move to China, no? How would you have liked the government to stop them? Tax policy? Tariffs? Something else?
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T
I think the biggest missteps was the government underestimated the amount of jobs that would be lost and the type of jobs that would be replacing the lost jobs and how reliant we were to China for real stuff, not just happy meal toys. I am 100% in favor of free market trade and corporate America did what was best for them and their shareholders and I have no problem with that at all. That being said, it still can be a disservice for the long haul, which I believe to be true.
As for your bolding my comment on our industry being lost in short order, there definitely were things that the city and state could have done, but that is not my biggest complaint. Our elected officials truthfully were asleep at switch and no idea that an industry that employed over 90% minority workers essentially closed their doors before the elected officials knew what happened.
Truth be told, any support the city or state would have provided have been wasted money, but they had no idea that would be the case.
As for bolded major misstep by our government comment, my biggest issue is that I think our leaders sat on their hands for the last 25 years and did nothing in terms of planning on how a new economy would like or function. I think they, like corporate, America got complacent and never put "what if" plans into place. IMO, they kicked the can down the road and were hoping someone would deal with a problem if one ever happened.
Just to be clear, I am not in favor of tariffs or government intervention. I am in favor of our leaders knowing how to navigate a situation or a crisis. IMO, if we do not know to move goods from China to the USA after nearly thirty years someone has not done their jobs. If we did not know how reliant we were on chips from SE Asia until the pandemic hit, someone was not doing their job.
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If you've never been to Dealey Plaza and the 6th Floor Museum, be prepared to be moved. I'm old enough to remember November 22. The 4 hours in the Museum and Plaza had the hair on the back of my neck standing up the entire time.
I took a break from the show and walked around Dealy Plaza and JFK Memorial. (6th Floor museum unfortunately closed Mondays and Tuesdays.).
Spot on with being moved. The assination happened literally a day short of 6 years exactly before my birthday but I know all the details. Seeing the X's on the street where he was hit, the Zapruder location, the Grassy Knoll and the 6th floor window is very somber. And the Kennedy quotes from the speech he was supposed to give that day are just as moving..
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T
I think the biggest missteps was the government underestimated the amount of jobs that would be lost and the type of jobs that would be replacing the lost jobs and how reliant we were to China for real stuff, not just happy meal toys. I am 100% in favor of free market trade and corporate America did what was best for them and their shareholders and I have no problem with that at all. That being said, it still can be a disservice for the long haul, which I believe to be true.
As for your bolding my comment on our industry being lost in short order, there definitely were things that the city and state could have done, but that is not my biggest complaint. Our elected officials truthfully were asleep at switch and no idea that an industry that employed over 90% minority workers essentially closed their doors before the elected officials knew what happened.
Truth be told, any support the city or state would have provided have been wasted money, but they had no idea that would be the case.
As for bolded major misstep by our government comment, my biggest issue is that I think our leaders sat on their hands for the last 25 years and did nothing in terms of planning on how a new economy would like or function. I think they, like corporate, America got complacent and never put "what if" plans into place. IMO, they kicked the can down the road and were hoping someone would deal with a problem if one ever happened.
Just to be clear, I am not in favor of tariffs or government intervention. I am in favor of our leaders knowing how to navigate a situation or a crisis. IMO, if we do not know to move goods from China to the USA after nearly thirty years someone has not done their jobs. If we did not know how reliant we were on chips from SE Asia until the pandemic hit, someone was not doing their job.
Good stuff here.
You have longer experience with it, but I also think officials, and business leaders, weren't aware of the pitfalls of knockoff and patent infringement as well. Beyond just pricing and cost, firms and factories ripping off products and processes leave you with limited recourse to walk back from it.
We had 2 such instances.
One, a customer of ours came to us complaining about a viewer we made that basically broke. And the customer service was terrible. We asked to see it and found it was a cheap knockoff of our patented viewer. They were telling people they were representatives of ours when selling them. The actual viewers were made and assembled here in the US. Consequently, every customer who had a knockoff was no longer interested in the viewers in any way and assumed there was dishonesty going on from everyone.
Second, we had a product with a number of components made and assembled in China. After about 2 years, we discovered some extremely shady business practices and basically caught them red handed trying to reverse-engineer the entire device, starting from the parts they made. We yanked all business and set about to do it state side. Unfortunately, it increased a $15 item to closer to $25. We lost a good 80% of our volume. And we don't have any direct competitors for the final product, they just decided a 66% increase in price for an add item on was no longer worth it. We can move production elsewhere to try and mitigate costs, but that takes time and you could lose your customer base in the meantime.
Putting the toothpaste back in the tube is extremely difficult. If everything was protected and that was just production, you could make it work, potentially. But if there are people who have stolen your IP ready to step into the void when you move out, its very tough to maneuver.
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T
I think the biggest missteps was the government underestimated the amount of jobs that would be lost and the type of jobs that would be replacing the lost jobs and how reliant we were to China for real stuff, not just happy meal toys. I am 100% in favor of free market trade and corporate America did what was best for them and their shareholders and I have no problem with that at all. That being said, it still can be a disservice for the long haul, which I believe to be true.
As for your bolding my comment on our industry being lost in short order, there definitely were things that the city and state could have done, but that is not my biggest complaint. Our elected officials truthfully were asleep at switch and no idea that an industry that employed over 90% minority workers essentially closed their doors before the elected officials knew what happened.
Truth be told, any support the city or state would have provided have been wasted money, but they had no idea that would be the case.
As for bolded major misstep by our government comment, my biggest issue is that I think our leaders sat on their hands for the last 25 years and did nothing in terms of planning on how a new economy would like or function. I think they, like corporate, America got complacent and never put "what if" plans into place. IMO, they kicked the can down the road and were hoping someone would deal with a problem if one ever happened.
Just to be clear, I am not in favor of tariffs or government intervention. I am in favor of our leaders knowing how to navigate a situation or a crisis. IMO, if we do not know to move goods from China to the USA after nearly thirty years someone has not done their jobs. If we did not know how reliant we were on chips from SE Asia until the pandemic hit, someone was not doing their job.
Ok Goose, but you didn't say how you think government should have intervened; "planning on how a new economy would look" is extremely vague, as is "knowing how to navigate a crisis".
If you think government is at fault, even partially, what concrete actions do you believe they should have taken that they didn't?
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OK, I totally agree with Brother Goose. The classic was Walmart, whose everyday low prices were obtained by shifting production of everyday goods from the U.S. to China to get price points that fit into their sales mission. The result was that too many U.S. workers were put out of work.
I get that Walmart sometimes is the whipping boy for consumer good globalization. But I really find what their global procurement center in Tianjin, China did to U.S. production to be unconscionable. They're proud of the fact that they "gave the working man a raise," but completely ignore the fact that they put the workingman out of work!
Admittedly, relatively few people think through this problem. Nimbyism is alive and well in America and will be until your back yard is affected.
One classic situation was Walmart expanding in Dubuque, Iowa. For decades, Dubuque was a labor town dominated by the UAW and UFCW. Everyone was unionized. So when Walmart came in, organized labor urged a boycott. The boycott was so effective Walmart abandoned their original store for a Superstore across the street.
When I noted that we refused to shop at Walmart because of what they did to too many American workers, my Notre Dame educated relative looked at me and said, "must be nice to have enough money to have ethics..." I admit, more of the goods we use are China made that we'd like, but my wife and I try to buy American whenever possible.
On another point brought up in this room, regarding criticizing China because we fail to see our own failings -- give me a break gang. Labor practices that we outlawed a century ago are prevalent there. Things like worker safety, 40 hour work weeks, child labor are hardly the norm here but prevalent there. And for those of you concerned about polluting the environment, the United States is light years ahead of China in environmental preservation, emissions controls and environmental regulation. It's not even close.
Look, we have problems in this country. Lots of them. And we know it -- both sides are quick to point out each other's failings. But we're still the gold standard among countries and we're the society to which many people throughout the world aspire. If you don't believe me, then why are we having problems on our southern border?
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1. Why should Walmart care? They're successful and their shareholders are getting paid.
2. Gold standard based on what metric?
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dgies
I started doing sales calls to Walmart buying office when it was called PREL and had a dozen folks in their HK office. Two years later they had offices in Taipei, Shenzhen and Tainjin. While my family benefited from their expansion, it not take a Harvard MBA to understand the long term consequences on the US economy.
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1. Why should Walmart care? They're successful and their shareholders are getting paid.
2. Gold standard based on what metric?
The floor is much higher in the US. There are myriad problems here, but even the lower 25% have it far far better than many of the countries they immigrate from. Thats not to say its perfect and above all other countries, but there is a reason for mass immigration here.
Business opportunity is also substantially higher. I know at least a dozen successful business people from fairly high standard of living European and Asian countries that came to the US for business opportunities.
Look at the top 20 countries in the world by population. Which would you rather live in than the US, upbringing and patriotism aside. Germany and maybe Japan? The latter of which is incredibly expensive all over, even by US standards.
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The floor is much higher in the US. There are myriad problems here, but even the lower 25% have it far far better than many of the countries they immigrate from. Thats not to say its perfect and above all other countries, but there is a reason for mass immigration here.
Business opportunity is also substantially higher. I know at least a dozen successful business people from fairly high standard of living European and Asian countries that came to the US for business opportunities.
Look at the top 20 countries in the world by population. Which would you rather live in than the US, upbringing and patriotism aside. Germany and maybe Japan? The latter of which is incredibly expensive all over, even by US standards.
Me personally? Off the top of my head...any of the Nordics, Spain, Portugal
Ya, not top 20 population.
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On another point brought up in this room, regarding criticizing China because we fail to see our own failings -- give me a break gang. Labor practices that we outlawed a century ago are prevalent there. Things like worker safety, 40 hour work weeks, child labor are hardly the norm here but prevalent there. And for those of you concerned about polluting the environment, the United States is light years ahead of China in environmental preservation, emissions controls and environmental regulation. It's not even close.
I'm glad you mention these things. I could see them going away in the US under the right circumstances. They are, after all, government imposing its will in private enterprise.
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The floor is much higher in the US. There are myriad problems here, but even the lower 25% have it far far better than many of the countries they immigrate from. Thats not to say its perfect and above all other countries, but there is a reason for mass immigration here.
Business opportunity is also substantially higher. I know at least a dozen successful business people from fairly high standard of living European and Asian countries that came to the US for business opportunities.
Look at the top 20 countries in the world by population. Which would you rather live in than the US, upbringing and patriotism aside. Germany and maybe Japan? The latter of which is incredibly expensive all over, even by US standards.
Of course you are right. People from around the world still want to come here.
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I'm glad you mention these things. I could see them going away in the US under the right circumstances. They are, after all, government imposing its will in private enterprise.
Brother Jesmu:
Are you serious?
Sure, I could see an autocratic leader backed by a compliant Congress do something this crazy. HOWEVER, this is America! We don't do things like that here.
Yeah, some things may change at the edges but child labor aint gonna happen. Working conditions have to be safe and the only way the 40 hour work week is going is down to 35.
You know, you mentioned earlier that you'd prefer the Nordic Countries or the Iberian Peninsula to our country. Good luck. Gaining citizenship and full access to all the rights of a native in those countries is hard, if not impossible. And how are you, as a foreigner, going to work there except as an American ex-pat?
Dude, both my children were adopted from overseas. The United States is about the only country in the world that would grant my children the level of citizenship and commitment that both of my children have received. My daughter became a citizen two years after she arrived in this country. My son a year.
I have said many times that the greatest gift my wife and we ever gave our children was American Citizenship. I stand behind that belief 1000 percent!
In case you question that view, the hospital in which my son was born was bombed by the Russians recently and 60 innocent lives were taken. A month after we adopted my son, the orphanage director was arrested and 32 bodies of small children less than two years of age were dug up in the back yard. All had died of malnutrition and food poisoning. My daughter is a child of Chernobyl, having been born 60 miles northeast of Chernobyl.
These things don't happen in the United States. Period. Sure, we have our problems as I said before. But as Brother JWags said, poverty in the United States means something totally different than in the rest of the world. If you don't believe me, I have some garden spots in Ukraine and Belarus I'd encourage you to visit!
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Look at the top 20 countries in the world by population. Which would you rather live in than the US, upbringing and patriotism aside.
None. I want us to fix our problems here.
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None. I want us to fix our problems here.
On that score, we agree. Not sure we agree on the approach but no matter we get there, as long as we get there, you and I both will be happy!
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Brother Jesmu:
Are you serious?
Sure, I could see an autocratic leader backed by a compliant Congress do something this crazy. HOWEVER, this is America! We don't do things like that here.
Yeah, some things may change at the edges but child labor aint gonna happen. Working conditions have to be safe and the only way the 40 hour work week is going is down to 35.
You know, you mentioned earlier that you'd prefer the Nordic Countries or the Iberian Peninsula to our country. Good luck. Gaining citizenship and full access to all the rights of a native in those countries is hard, if not impossible. And how are you, as a foreigner, going to work there except as an American ex-pat?
Dude, both my children were adopted from overseas. The hospital in which my son was born was bombed by the Russians recently and 60 innocent lives were taken. A month after we adopted my son, the orphanage director was arrested and 32 bodies of small children less than two years of age were dug up in the back yard. All had died of malnutrition and food poisoning. My daughter is a child of Chernobyl, having been born 60 miles northeast of Chernobyl.
These things don't happen in the United States. Period. Sure, we have our problems as I said before. But as Brother JWags said, poverty in the United States means something totally different than in the rest of the world. If you don't believe me, I have some garden spots in Ukraine and Belarus I'd encourage you to visit!
thank you for posting this brother dog, but sorry to hear the things you had to see/experience in order to make some very good points most of us cannot even begin to comprehend. on the other hand, God bless you and your family for the 2 lives you most probably saved from some incredibly savage conditions. that is one helluva story man!
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"On another point brought up in this room, regarding criticizing China because we fail to see our own failings -- give me a break gang. Labor practices that we outlawed a century ago are prevalent there. Things like worker safety, 40 hour work weeks, child labor are hardly the norm here but prevalent there. And for those of you concerned about polluting the environment, the United States is light years ahead of China in environmental preservation, emissions controls and environmental regulation. It's not even close."
I always get sent these annual questionnaires/surveys from my International customers asking these questions. "Does your company have a policy......"
WTF? Of course we do. It's against USA law and we don't need a policy!.
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thank you for posting this brother dog, but sorry to hear the things you had to see/experience in order to make some very good points most of us cannot even begin to comprehend. on the other hand, God bless you and your family for the 2 lives you most probably saved from some incredibly savage conditions. that is one helluva story man!
Don't be sorry. Work to change them throughout the world. We can all do better. I sincerely appreciate the fact that's lost on most Americans that we can't comprehend the conditions from which my children came. I would never have believed it. Period. Until my wife and I saw it first hand.
You don't know the half of it! I can say with confidence that when we were in Frankfurt on our way home and we turned the corner to the overseas terminal and saw the 777 with the U.S. flag and the registration N783UA, all I could say was, "Thank God!"
God did bless us -- with two incredible children. Both of my children overcame serious learning disabilities to get college degrees from a major regional university. My daughter works in Denver as a graphic designer and my son is in management training at the Home Depot near Chicago.
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Sure, I could see an autocratic leader backed by a compliant Congress do something this crazy. HOWEVER, this is America! We don't do things like that here.
Yeah, some things may change at the edges but child labor aint gonna happen. Working conditions have to be safe and the only way the 40 hour work week is going is down to 35.
Lol. Sure. EPA hasn't been defanged at all
Further, I don't think it would be anything authoritarian at all. If we had an outright libertarian president and the Congress to support them, we might say goodbye to a lot of government regulation/oversight.
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dgies
Thanks for sharing more detail on the adoption of your two children. I am really happy to hear that your grown kids are doing well in life. You are a good man!!!
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Lol. Sure. EPA hasn't been defanged at all
Further, I don't think it would be anything authoritarian at all. If we had an outright libertarian president and the Congress to support them, we might say goodbye to a lot of government regulation/oversight.
If you honestly believe child labor and early 1900s working conditions would ever come back, regardless of the president, you're a special kind of Chicken Little.
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If you honestly believe child labor and early 1900s working conditions would ever come back, regardless of the president, you're a special kind of Chicken Little.
If by child labor, you mean 7-year-olds working 12-hour shifts on factory floors, you're right. That's not coming back.
But there's been some backsliding in recent years, with Wisconsin helping to lead the way in putting younger kids to work for longer hours.
US employers are recruiting teenaged workers to solve their difficulties in hiring and retaining workers, and some Republicans and industry groups are pushing for looser child labor laws to allow those industries to put teens to work for longer hours.
https://www.theguardian.com/law/2021/nov/02/child-labor-laws-weakened-us-industries-teens
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If by child labor, you mean 7-year-olds working 12-hour shifts on factory floors, you're right. That's not coming back.
But there's been some backsliding in recent years, with Wisconsin helping to lead the way in putting younger kids to work for longer hours.
US employers are recruiting teenaged workers to solve their difficulties in hiring and retaining workers, and some Republicans and industry groups are pushing for looser child labor laws to allow those industries to put teens to work for longer hours.
https://www.theguardian.com/law/2021/nov/02/child-labor-laws-weakened-us-industries-teens
Backsliding isn't what Jesu was referring to though. Dgies was pointing to places that are archaic in their approach to labor, compared to the US, and he was like "well in the right circumstances we wouldn't be that different than them" which is just ridiculous.
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If by child labor, you mean 7-year-olds working 12-hour shifts on factory floors, you're right. That's not coming back.
But there's been some backsliding in recent years, with Wisconsin helping to lead the way in putting younger kids to work for longer hours.
US employers are recruiting teenaged workers to solve their difficulties in hiring and retaining workers, and some Republicans and industry groups are pushing for looser child labor laws to allow those industries to put teens to work for longer hours.
https://www.theguardian.com/law/2021/nov/02/child-labor-laws-weakened-us-industries-teens (https://www.theguardian.com/law/2021/nov/02/child-labor-laws-weakened-us-industries-teens)
Sure, rather than paying workers more $ they'd rather pay children peanuts and have them fill their schedules with longer hours. Yeah America!
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If you honestly believe child labor and early 1900s working conditions would ever come back, regardless of the president, you're a special kind of Chicken Little.
Returning to 1900s working conditions/labor laws? No.
Eliminating much environmental regulation? Yes.
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Returning to 1900s working conditions/labor laws? No.
Eliminating much environmental regulation? Yes.
Brother Jesmu:
Huh?
Try to locate, expand or modify any manufacturing or processing facility in the US and you’ll see how little backtracking we have done.
Look at the quality of your water and ask how much backtracking we’ve done. Or the amount of raw sewage in our waterways. And look at what we have done with toxic waste.
We’ve done great compared to 40 or 50 years ago. Too bad you Millennials have no institutional knowledge of where we were and are.
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Brother Jesmu:
Huh?
Try to locate, expand or modify any manufacturing or processing facility in the US and you’ll see how little backtracking we have done.
Look at the quality of your water and ask how much backtracking we’ve done. Or the amount of raw sewage in our waterways. And look at what we have done with toxic waste.
We’ve done great compared to 40 or 50 years ago. Too bad you Millennials have no institutional knowledge of where we were and are.
Millennials are 40 years old. Don't be such a boomer, homie.
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Brother Jesmu:
Huh?
Try to locate, expand or modify any manufacturing or processing facility in the US and you’ll see how little backtracking we have done.
Look at the quality of your water and ask how much backtracking we’ve done. Or the amount of raw sewage in our waterways. And look at what we have done with toxic waste.
We’ve done great compared to 40 or 50 years ago. Too bad you Millennials have no institutional knowledge of where we were and are.
Is it your contention that there has not been deregulation of the environment in the recent past?
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Millennials are 40 years old. Don't be such a boomer, homie.
Sir I still have 6 months til 30 thank you!
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Is it your contention that there has not been deregulation of the environment in the recent past?
Do you have experience with industrial regulations around the world and how the US stacks up compared to their competitors? Or just reading some stuff online?
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Do you have experience with industrial regulations around the world and how the US stacks up compared to their competitors? Or just reading some stuff online?
[/quFYI.
Jesmu84 is more of a YouTube economist.
There are a lot of teenagers out there that have to work to support their families. Parents are disabled, addicted, absent, etc. Like so many other things, covid exacerbated this problem.
Other kids want to work. It's good for them. A lot of the issues in the millennial generation is their lack of work ethic. (Tossed that bomb just for hards.)
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Do you have experience with industrial regulations around the world and how the US stacks up compared to their competitors? Or just reading some stuff online?
C'mon Wags, you are better than that.
Starter list:
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/climate/trump-environment-rollbacks-list.html
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Do you have experience with industrial regulations around the world and how the US stacks up compared to their competitors? Or just reading some stuff online?
I have never mentioned anything about US regulations vs other countries.
One poster implied we (USA) hadn't backtracked in our environmental regulations. I was asking for clarification.
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C'mon Wags, you are better than that.
Starter list:
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/climate/trump-environment-rollbacks-list.html
I never once said there weren't rollbacks. I did push back against notions of what the international manufacturing climate is actually like.
Its totally ok to expect more from the US. But Jesu started with saying, essentially, with the "right" leadership, the US could be no better than places like China or the like with truly deplorable working conditions and environmental destruction.
Then he walked back to "lol the EPA is defanged".
Then when dgies correctly pointed out regulations or water quality standards here...he responded with "do you think there hasn't been any backtrack". Which is exactly what he's been doing.
I'm very pro-environment. While I'm very pro-business/free market, I'm not in favor of unchecked environmental damage, pollution, dumping, etc... However, Ive spent the last 6-7 years seeing manufacturing and industrial in places like China, India, Thailand, Indonesia, Vietnam, and others. The US looks like a Green Party wet dream compared to the places where the US loses manufacturing to. That doesn't mean the US can't be better and should be working from a much different standard...but it does mean pretending or insinuating the US's issues or standards are in anywhere near a similar realm means you're entirely ignorant in order to push an agenda. Hence why I asked if he has any experience.
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I never once said there weren't rollbacks. I did push back against notions of what the international manufacturing climate is actually like.
Its totally ok to expect more from the US. But Jesu started with saying, essentially, with the "right" leadership, the US could be no better than places like China or the like with truly deplorable working conditions and environmental destruction.
I think you read way more into what Jes said than what Jes actually said. There was no reference to what other countries do or international standards, only that (I paraphrase) the U.S. could easily go backwards...which frankly we see happen everywhere and every time a certain side takes power.
In my reading at least, jes didn't say or imply we'd become a China, Russia, etc.
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I never once said there weren't rollbacks. I did push back against notions of what the international manufacturing climate is actually like.
Its totally ok to expect more from the US. But Jesu started with saying, essentially, with the "right" leadership, the US could be no better than places like China or the like with truly deplorable working conditions and environmental destruction.
Then he walked back to "lol the EPA is defanged".
Then when dgies correctly pointed out regulations or water quality standards here...he responded with "do you think there hasn't been any backtrack". Which is exactly what he's been doing.
I'm very pro-environment. While I'm very pro-business/free market, I'm not in favor of unchecked environmental damage, pollution, dumping, etc... However, Ive spent the last 6-7 years seeing manufacturing and industrial in places like China, India, Thailand, Indonesia, Vietnam, and others. The US looks like a Green Party wet dream compared to the places where the US loses manufacturing to. That doesn't mean the US can't be better and should be working from a much different standard...but it does mean pretending or insinuating the US's issues or standards are in anywhere near a similar realm means you're entirely ignorant in order to push an agenda. Hence why I asked if he has any experience.
Dgies implied he didn't think there had been any environmental regulation rollbacks/backtracking. I asked a question to clarify.
Slippery slope, much like discussed about gun control, can be used here. The same politicians I distrust roll back some environmental regulations. Who's to say they won't want more later on?
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I think you read way more into what Jes said than what Jes actually said. There was no reference to what other countries do or international standards, only that (I paraphrase) the U.S. could easily go backwards...which frankly we see happen everywhere and every time a certain side takes power.
In my reading at least, jes didn't say or imply we'd become a China, Russia, etc.
I guess my point would also be, as has been stated, I don't think people realize how far backwards we'd have to go to not be WELL in front of the great majority of the manufacturing world.
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I guess my point would also be, as has been stated, I don't think people realize how far backwards we'd have to go to not be WELL in front of the great majority of the manufacturing world.
Relative to the countries we see as our peers, i.e. Western Europe, Australia, Japan, we rank pretty low when it comes to environmental protection. Relative to China and the developing world, we're doing a bang-up job.
https://epi.yale.edu/epi-results/2022/component/epi
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Relative to the countries we see as our peers, i.e. Western Europe, Australia, Japan, we rank pretty low when it comes to environmental protection. Relative to China and the developing world, we're doing a bang-up job.
https://epi.yale.edu/epi-results/2022/component/epi
the environmental studies come out of yale and columbia?? puh leeez...can't see anything the matter there...i wonder how they are funded??
don't know if i should laugh or cry, but come on man
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the environmental studies come out of yale and columbia?? puh leeez...can't see anything the matter there...i wonder how they are funded??
don't know if i should laugh or cry, but come on man
So, rocket, what specifically do you take issue with here? The methodology? The categories? How they weigh the data? The calculations?
Or are you just saying "Derp ... Yale ....derp derp."
And am I not correct that while you question scientists from Yale and Columbia, you have touted the work of a doctor who claims that gynecological diseases arise from "demon sperm" transmitted during sex dreams with supernatural beings?
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the environmental studies come out of yale and columbia?? puh leeez...can't see anything the matter there...i wonder how they are funded??
If you would click on a couple of links, you would find that the EPI is funded by the McCall MacBain Foundation, which is a pretty sizable private foundation founded by this guy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_MacBain
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the environmental studies come out of yale and columbia?? puh leeez...can't see anything the matter there...i wonder how they are funded??
don't know if i should laugh or cry, but come on man
Buffon.
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So, rocket, what specifically do you take issue with here? The methodology? The categories? How they weigh the data? The calculations?
Or are you just saying "Derp ... Yale ....derp derp."
And am I not correct that while you question scientists from Yale and Columbia, you have touted the work of a doctor who claims that gynecological diseases arise from "demon sperm" transmitted during sex dreams with supernatural beings?
i have no idea what doc or study you cherry picked, but i do have issues with advocacy groups giving money to schools who espouse the very study they are researching. mcbain is nothing but a flat earth, tree hugging zealot with money he made from his auto trader magazine. might as well have a daughter named greta
oh and back atcha 82 you sweetie you
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i have no idea what doc or study you cherry picked, but i do have issues with advocacy groups giving money to schools who espouse the very study they are researching. mcbain is nothing but a flat earth, tree hugging zealot with money he made from his auto trader magazine. might as well have a daughter named greta
oh and back atcha 82 you sweetie you
Let’s face it, you had no idea who he was until I told you.
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Let’s face it, you had no idea who he was until I told you.
His daily routine, honestly.
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i have no idea
99 percent of your posts can stop right here.
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i have no idea what doc or study you cherry picked, but i do have issues with advocacy groups giving money to schools who espouse the very study they are researching. mcbain is nothing but a flat earth, tree hugging zealot with money he made from his auto trader magazine. might as well have a daughter named greta
oh and back atcha 82 you sweetie you
Sometimes I think the stupidity is so unfathomable that this must be some genius long-running troll, because nobody can possibly be this intentionally unnatural carnal knowledgeing stupid.
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Sometimes I think the stupidity is so unfathomable that this must be some genius long-running troll, because nobody can possibly be this intentionally unnatural carnal knowledgeing stupid.
I’ve read he was the inspiration for Dr. Leo Spaceman
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I’ve read he was the inspiration for Dr. Leo Spaceman
I had no idea who that was so I had to Google it. Which lead me to this quiz: https://newrepublic.com/article/164872/rand-paul-dr-leo-spaceman-30-rock-covid-science
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With regard to the U.S. going "backward," the question must be asked on what?
If you're asking whether the U.S. will be part of the Paris Climate Accords should a Republican become President in 2025, the answer probably is "no!" Does it mean the U.S. is suddenly going to become A much more polluted, dangerous place? Absolutely not.
Different administrations emphasize different things. We may not be as forceful on some issues at certain times. But emphasis and retreat are two very different things.
When we are compared to our Western Europe and Asian compatriots, the question has to be asked what the benchmarks are. For example, many cite the commitment of Europe and Asia to high-speed rail and compare its relatively favorable environmental impact to our commitment to airplanes and cars, which has a potentially much more debilitating impact than rail. Yet, because of population density, high speed rail works in Europe and parts of Asia but outside of the East Coast and, soon, Florida, Texas and LA, it doesn't work here.
Likewise, in France, for example. more than half the electricity produced comes from nuclear power. No emissions. No greenhouse gases and if cooling towers are used, no debilitating waterway impact. We have not initiated a new nuclear plant since Three Mile Island in 1979 and, unlike France, have made no commitment to spent fuel storage. So we look worse on power generation... but are we?
Try to build a nuclear plant anywhere in the US and watch what happens.
I could go on but unless your taking air and water measurements of contaminates per liter or something like that, the studies are opinions and quite subjective.
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With regard to the U.S. going "backward," the question must be asked on what?
If you're asking whether the U.S. will be part of the Paris Climate Accords should a Republican become President in 2025, the answer probably is "no!" Does it mean the U.S. is suddenly going to become A much more polluted, dangerous place? Absolutely not.
Different administrations emphasize different things. We may not be as forceful on some issues at certain times. But emphasis and retreat are two very different things.
When we are compared to our Western Europe and Asian compatriots, the question has to be asked what the benchmarks are. For example, many cite the commitment of Europe and Asia to high-speed rail and compare its relatively favorable environmental impact to our commitment to airplanes and cars, which has a potentially much more debilitating impact than rail. Yet, because of population density, high speed rail works in Europe and parts of Asia but outside of the East Coast and, soon, Florida, Texas and LA, it doesn't work here.
Likewise, in France, for example. more than half the electricity produced comes from nuclear power. No emissions. No greenhouse gases and if cooling towers are used, no debilitating waterway impact. We have not initiated a new nuclear plant since Three Mile Island in 1979 and, unlike France, have made no commitment to spent fuel storage. So we look worse on power generation... but are we?
Try to build a nuclear plant anywhere in the US and watch what happens.
I could go on but unless your taking air and water measurements of contaminates per liter or something like that, the studies are opinions and quite subjective.
they are building a nuclear plant in Georgia right now. There are cost overruns and the US Government is helping to foot the bill (I believe). They are a slightly different design and safer using molten salt.
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they are building a nuclear plant in Georgia right now. There are cost overruns and the US Government is helping to foot the bill (I believe). They are a slightly different design and safer using molten salt.
Nuclear power is perfectly safe, and should be widely adopted by the US to replace all of the carbon plants and to stabilize the grid when renewables are not available.
Keep building more!
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Nuclear power is perfectly safe, and should be widely adopted by the US to replace all of the carbon plants and to stabilize the grid when renewables are not available.
Keep building more!
On a semi related topic, why don't we have more desalinization plants?
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On a semi related topic, why don't we have more desalinization plants?
Getting water other ways is cheaper.
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Nuclear power is perfectly safe, and should be widely adopted by the US to replace all of the carbon plants and to stabilize the grid when renewables are not available.
Keep building more!
I agree with this analysis
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Getting water other ways is cheaper.
We are almost at a point in many areas where "getting" water is not an option
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We are almost at a point in many areas where "getting" water is not an option
Yep. So eventually the cost is going to be worth it. Probably still need to look more at water reclamation projects first.
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I agree with this analysis
Hards, Rico and I agree on something!
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Hards, Rico and I agree on something!
It took awhile to come around on nuclear power but I grew up in the 80’s when we lived post-Three Mile, through Chernobyl and the constant threat of nuclear war being debated. There are inherent risks, however, it’s the most sensible to me and most sustainable.
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Nuclear power is perfectly safe, and should be widely adopted by the US to replace all of the carbon plants and to stabilize the grid when renewables are not available.
Keep building more!
We should have never stopped building them. Too many people confused our plants with the absolutely crappy Russian design and nuclear weapons.
Nuclear plant protests almost killed my Dad's employer, UI in the 80's when protestors tried to shut down Seabrook in New Hampshire.
(I figure MU82 will like the UI reference.)
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It took awhile to come around on nuclear power but I grew up in the 80’s when we lived post-Three Mile, through Chernobyl and the constant threat of nuclear war being debated. There are inherent risks, however, it’s the most sensible to me and most sustainable.
And France and Japan have never had an issue (and I don't count the tsunami because one would expect that to kill everything).
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With regard to the U.S. going "backward," the question must be asked on what?
If you're asking whether the U.S. will be part of the Paris Climate Accords should a Republican become President in 2025, the answer probably is "no!" Does it mean the U.S. is suddenly going to become A much more polluted, dangerous place? Absolutely not.
Different administrations emphasize different things. We may not be as forceful on some issues at certain times. But emphasis and retreat are two very different things.
When we are compared to our Western Europe and Asian compatriots, the question has to be asked what the benchmarks are. For example, many cite the commitment of Europe and Asia to high-speed rail and compare its relatively favorable environmental impact to our commitment to airplanes and cars, which has a potentially much more debilitating impact than rail. Yet, because of population density, high speed rail works in Europe and parts of Asia but outside of the East Coast and, soon, Florida, Texas and LA, it doesn't work here.
Likewise, in France, for example. more than half the electricity produced comes from nuclear power. No emissions. No greenhouse gases and if cooling towers are used, no debilitating waterway impact. We have not initiated a new nuclear plant since Three Mile Island in 1979 and, unlike France, have made no commitment to spent fuel storage. So we look worse on power generation... but are we?
Try to build a nuclear plant anywhere in the US and watch what happens.
I could go on but unless your taking air and water measurements of contaminates per liter or something like that, the studies are opinions and quite subjective.
Headinthesand.gif
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And France and Japan have never had an issue (and I don't count the tsunami because one would expect that to kill everything).
A newer designed reactor would have been fine, but Fukushima was commissioned in 1971... and it was an old design.
Also, the company who ran the plant ignored safety recommendations that could have prevented the disaster.
Also, I'd be 100% on board with nationalizing the nuclear sector. National Security and all that. 8-)
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https://time.com/4700311/donald-trump-white-house-counsel-steve-bannon/
https://www-vox-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.vox.com/platform/amp/policy-and-politics/2018/4/25/17275566/congressional-review-act-what-regulations-has-trump-cut?amp_gsa=1&_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQKKAFQArABIIACAw%3D%3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16548008265499&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.vox.com%2Fpolicy-and-politics%2F2018%2F4%2F25%2F17275566%2Fcongressional-review-act-what-regulations-has-trump-cut
No rollbacks/backtracking/deregulation
To be fair, this was a quick Google search. That said, I don't think it's particular to GOP. I think it's a reflection of corporate influence over politics. And Dems aren't without their share of blame.
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https://time.com/4700311/donald-trump-white-house-counsel-steve-bannon/
https://www-vox-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.vox.com/platform/amp/policy-and-politics/2018/4/25/17275566/congressional-review-act-what-regulations-has-trump-cut?amp_gsa=1&_js_v=a9&usqp=mq331AQKKAFQArABIIACAw%3D%3D#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=16548008265499&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.vox.com%2Fpolicy-and-politics%2F2018%2F4%2F25%2F17275566%2Fcongressional-review-act-what-regulations-has-trump-cut
No rollbacks/backtracking/deregulation
To be fair, this was a quick Google search. That said, I don't think it's particular to GOP. I think it's a reflection of corporate influence over politics. And Dems aren't without their share of blame.
Brother Jesmu:
You make the assumption that if we reduce or eliminate regulations, we are backtracking. I don't doubt that the last four administrations have eliminated regulation that I wished they hadn't done (and I'm just a bit more conservative than you are). But that doesn't mean we aren't committed to the values in our laws.
Sometimes these regulations become weaponized. A couple decades ago, Murphy Oil wanted to make changes in the environmental control system at Wisconsin's only oil refinery. It was in Superior and the Wisconsin DNR told Murphy that to make the ECS changes required by the EPA, they'd have to clean up PCBs left in the Allouez Bay by the Northern Pacific railroad decades before the refinery was even built. The matter was a regulatory issue because Murphy was going to marginally exceed effluent limitations on two days.
Murphy, of course, balked at cleaning up someone else's problem. The DNR dug in and told them either to clean it up or close the refinery. Had the DNR prevailed, some of the highest paying jobs in Superior would have been gone. On the other hand, the refinery was the only oil refinery in Wisconsin and required the DNR to learn about petroleum refining regulation and to regulate a facility that very easily could get regulatory mud on the DNR.
Fortunately, cooler heads prevailed, the refinery stayed open and the DNR's over-reach was over-ridden by the federal government. But it took a lot of effort by State, County and local officials to get it done.
Brother Jesmu, I'm guessing you would see this as backsliding. I see it as real-world compromise on a matter that didn't change the overall environment of the Northland a bit.
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On a semi related topic, why don't we have more desalinization plants?
Crossover with the investing thread, but this is my desalinization play
https://www.nasdaq.com/market-activity/stocks/erii
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Man, I know you guys frequently go off topic. But it's been a wild ride lately. This reads like NM.
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Brother Jesmu:
You make the assumption that if we reduce or eliminate regulations, we are backtracking. I don't doubt that the last four administrations have eliminated regulation that I wished they hadn't done (and I'm just a bit more conservative than you are). But that doesn't mean we aren't committed to the values in our laws.
Sometimes these regulations become weaponized. A couple decades ago, Murphy Oil wanted to make changes in the environmental control system at Wisconsin's only oil refinery. It was in Superior and the Wisconsin DNR told Murphy that to make the ECS changes required by the EPA, they'd have to clean up PCBs left in the Allouez Bay by the Northern Pacific railroad decades before the refinery was even built. The matter was a regulatory issue because Murphy was going to marginally exceed effluent limitations on two days.
Murphy, of course, balked at cleaning up someone else's problem. The DNR dug in and told them either to clean it up or close the refinery. Had the DNR prevailed, some of the highest paying jobs in Superior would have been gone. On the other hand, the refinery was the only oil refinery in Wisconsin and required the DNR to learn about petroleum refining regulation and to regulate a facility that very easily could get regulatory mud on the DNR.
Fortunately, cooler heads prevailed, the refinery stayed open and the DNR's over-reach was over-ridden by the federal government. But it took a lot of effort by State, County and local officials to get it done.
Brother Jesmu, I'm guessing you would see this as backsliding. I see it as real-world compromise on a matter that didn't change the overall environment of the Northland a bit.
I don't see one anecdote as evidence of anything.
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On a semi related topic, why don't we have more desalinization plants?
my understanding is that they consume extraordinary amounts of power and damage marine life. Gotta be ways to re-engineer the implementation though, who knows, beyond me
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“I made it clear I did not agree with the idea of saying the election was stolen … which I told the president was total bullish!t.” - Bill Barr
“I respect Attorney General Barr, so I accepted what he was saying.” - Ivanka Trump
“That must have been a bittersweet moment for the president. She finally screwed him.” - Stephen Colbert
Biggest laugh line from The Late Show monologue last night!
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“I made it clear I did not agree with the idea of saying the election was stolen … which I told the president was total bullish!t.” - Bill Barr
“I respect Attorney General Barr, so I accepted what he was saying.” - Ivanka Trump
“That must have been a bittersweet moment for the president. She finally screwed him.” - Stephen Colbert
Biggest laugh line from The Late Show monologue last night!
That ought to cap off this thread.
Self control.
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That ought to cap off this thread.
It's been such a fine thread, right from the opening post.
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That ought to cap off this thread.
Self control.
Jokes always take precedence. Always.
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It took awhile to come around on nuclear power but I grew up in the 80’s when we lived post-Three Mile, through Chernobyl and the constant threat of nuclear war being debated. There are inherent risks, however, it’s the most sensible to me and most sustainable.
Maybe some nuclear good news for our grandkids.
https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2022/05/world/iter-nuclear-fusion-climate-intl-cnnphotos/
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Maybe some nuclear good news for our grandkids.
https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2022/05/world/iter-nuclear-fusion-climate-intl-cnnphotos/
My company made the superconductor wire for that project. We're making more for the fusion project in Italy, DTT. Our China plant will be making for the China fusion project.