2025 Green Bay Packers Thread

[Hards Alumni]

Bart Starr was 1st team All Pro once (1966) in his career. He was surrounded by a guy who made it 7 times, a guy who made it 6 times, 4 guys who made it 5 times, a guy who made it 4 times, a guy who made it 3 times, 3 guys who made it twice and 7 guys who, like Bart, made it once. But you don't think he was surrounded by really good players who made him look better.

You can be the punk you are and insult me, Jockey, etc. all you want but I (we) know much more than you do about Marquette basketball, MLB, the NBA and the NFL regarding players who we grew up with and who played before you were born. For you to think otherwise is nothing more than your inflated ego and hubris talking.

Give it up, Junior.

Just say you don't know what you're talking about and just made stuff up.  It's waaaaaaaay less embarrassing.

[Lennys Tap]

League MVPs tend to be overrated game managers.

I don't think I ever said he was an overrated game manager. In fact I clearly stated he was as outstanding one.

He did win one MVP - but playing QB for the best NFL team of a decade that's hardly surprising.

Other QBs who have been MVPs (many after expansion to include more teams)
Matt Ryan
Steve McNair
Rich Gannon
Brian Sipe
Earl Morrall
Charley Connerly
Ed Dankowski
Ace Parker
Parker Hall

Others, too. Game managers can win MVPs.

[Lennys Tap]

Just say you don't know what you're talking about and just made stuff up.  It's waaaaaaaay less embarrassing.

LOL. Now All Pro teams and players are "made up". Pathetic.

[Hards Alumni]

LOL. Now All Pro teams and players are "made up". Pathetic.

He was also 3x 2nd team All-Pro.

Sun must be setting early out there, pops.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSI3quJVwgI

Look, I can watch Bart "Game Manager" Starr!

[Lennys Tap]

He was also 3x 2nd team All-Pro.

Sun must be setting early out there, pops.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSI3quJVwgI

Look, I can watch Bart "Game Manager" Starr!

Whoop de doo! Guess what, the 11 (eleven!) guys that were 7x, 6x, 5x, 4x, 3x and 2x FIRST teamers and the 7 (seven!) guys who (like Bart) made the FIRST team 1 (one!) time had lots of times they finished second. For you to deny that the team of the decade with so, so many guys who were All Pro so, so many times more than Bart wasn't loaded and didn't aid his performance is just beyond stupid. Own it and move on.

[The Sultan]

IDK...in a six year stretch, when the Packers won four championships, Starr was first team All-Pro (and league MVP) once, and second team All-Pro three times. To Johnny Unitas and YA Tittle.

He was considered one of the best quarterbacks of his era. And again, using a modern term like "game manager" to describe him isn't really all that accurate.

[The Sultan]

Whoop de doo! Guess what, the 11 (eleven!) guys that were 7x, 6x, 5x, 4x, 3x and 2x FIRST teamers and the 7 (seven!) guys who (like Bart) made the FIRST team 1 (one!) time had lots of times they finished second. For you to deny that the team of the decade with so, so many guys who were All Pro so, so many times more than Bart wasn't loaded and didn't aid his performance is just beyond stupid. Own it and move on.

Is he disputing this???

[Hards Alumni]

Whoop de doo! Guess what, the 11 (eleven!) guys that were 7x, 6x, 5x, 4x, 3x and 2x FIRST teamers and the 7 (seven!) guys who (like Bart) made the FIRST team 1 (one!) time had lots of times they finished second. For you to deny that the team of the decade with so, so many guys who were All Pro so, so many times more than Bart wasn't loaded and didn't aid his performance is just beyond stupid. Own it and move on.

This is an incredible straw man argument you've built!  You're doing great.

Don't strain yourself, you may have to hit the button to call the nurse again.

[Hards Alumni]

Is he disputing this???

Never suggested once that Bart wasn't surrounded by great players.  My claim was that he wasn't a game manager like Brock Purdy, but instead one of the best QBs of all time.  The overwhelming evidence says he was, but Lenny has vibes, his keen eye, and 100 times he saw Bart play football that says he was a lot like Brock.

Lenny is still out here with his ass hanging out and his pants around his ankles trying to tell us the world is flat.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

As a huge Packers fan back to the days of Start, I agree completely.

Famed Packer Barr Start. Which in Wisconsin was usually noon.

[Lennys Tap]

Lenny is still out here with his ass hanging out and his pants around his ankles trying to tell us the world is flat.

This is so typical of you. Nonsensical, non factual personal insults to "prove" your point. I get it that you have an axe to grind with people of my generation. I know you're bitter and whine constantly about how boomers ruined your life. Sorry about that, but it doesn't change Bart Starr's numbers or what Jockey, I and others saw with our own eyes. Grow up.

[Jockey]

He was also 3x 2nd team All-Pro.

Sun must be setting early out there, pops.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSI3quJVwgI

Look, I can watch Bart "Game Manager" Starr!

"Pops" is a lot Smarter than you are and probably ever will be.

You win the Smugness" award though.

[Jockey]

This is an incredible straw man argument you've built!  You're doing great.

Don't strain yourself, you may have to hit the button to call the nurse again.

How many times did you watch Starr play? I guessing the answer is Zero. But, yeah, you're the smart one.

Just another run-of-the-mill Scoop "expert" or maybe just a pretentious punk.

[The Sultan]

If Lenny's watched Justin Fields play, and came away from that experience that he "met expectations," then I'm not sure Lenny's Eye Test is the best way to judge football players anyway.

Regardless the comparison to Brock Purdy is silly.

[Hards Alumni]

How many times did you watch Starr play? I guessing the answer is Zero. But, yeah, you're the smart one.

Just another run-of-the-mill Scoop "expert" or maybe just a pretentious punk.

The footage is easily available.  Seriously.  Don't join Lenny on another hill of lies.  Flip MSNBC back on and enjoy your morning joe.

[Hards Alumni]

This is so typical of you. Nonsensical, non factual personal insults to "prove" your point. I get it that you have an axe to grind with people of my generation. I know you're bitter and whine constantly about how boomers ruined your life. Sorry about that, but it doesn't change Bart Starr's numbers or what Jockey, I and others saw with our own eyes. Grow up.

You're the most perpetually aggrieved dick head on the entire board, so this is awfully rich coming from you.  Well over 50% of your posts are negative.

You ignored my actual data, and said, "well I saw him play and you didn't".  When I showed you that anyone can watch him play with this fancy new invention called the internet, you didn't really have a response except to point to Jockey.  Which is an awfully strange way to refute video evidence. 

[GB Warrior]

Can we just enjoy that Purdy is uniquely positioned to be paid a bazillion dollars and still make the 49ers less than the sum of their parts and come up short of a Super Bowl?

[#UnleashSean]

This is so typical of you. Nonsensical, non factual personal insults to "prove" your point. I get it that you have an axe to grind with people of my generation. I know you're bitter and whine constantly about how boomers ruined your life. Sorry about that, but it doesn't change Bart Starr's numbers or what Jockey, I and others saw with our own eyes. Grow up.

Why are we comparing passing numbers from a qb from the 60s with a quarterback from the 2020's?

The game was very different just in Favres and Rodgers reigns. And they were only years apart.

Imagine how much different the game was in the 60s.

[cheebs09]

Why are we comparing passing numbers from a qb from the 60s with a quarterback from the 2020's?

The game was very different just in Favres and Rodgers reigns. And they were only years apart.

Imagine how much different the game was in the 60s.

Yeah, by today's standards I think even the best quarterbacks back then would be viewed as game managers.

Also, I'm not sure I saw Lenny say he thought Purdy was equal to Starr. I thought it was just a comment that the team was loaded around him. Although, I'm sure you could argue part of that was having a QB of Starr's caliber. I don't think Purdy is elevating his team much.

[The Sultan]

To be fair, Lenny's has been doing that.

But the issue is that "game manager" means a whole different thing in pass dominant, modern NFL football. Starr didn't pass as much as his peers no doubt, but that doesn't mean he was a "game manager" in the Brock Purdy sense of the word.  They ran the ball a lot in an era where a lot of teams ran the ball a lot. And when Starr passed, it was usually down the field with little mistakes.

Furthermore I have trouble believing Lenny's Eye Test when said Eye Test also claimed that Justin Fields "met expectations." But that's another story.

[Spotcheck Billy]

Starr was often calling his own plays, not game managing Vince plays etc.

[MU82]

Starr was often calling his own plays, not game managing Vince plays etc.

Most QBs called their own plays back then. One of the big knocks on Staubach was that he didn't call his own plays.

[JWags85]

Never suggested once that Bart wasn't surrounded by great players.  My claim was that he wasn't a game manager like Brock Purdy, but instead one of the best QBs of all time.  The overwhelming evidence says he was, but Lenny has vibes, his keen eye, and 100 times he saw Bart play football that says he was a lot like Brock.

I know the dangers of comparing across eras, but saying he's one of the best QBs of all time is pretty rocky.  He can be unquestionably the among the best of a decade/era, but not an all time great.  They won a Super Bowl the year he threw 9 TDs to 17 INTs.  There isn't a single passing category he stacks up favorably against other all time greats...except wins.  Some of that isn't all his fault, but still.

If pitchers in the 50s-60s used to get shelled and one of the Cy Young winners in the 60s had a 4.5 ERA and 80 Ks, you could say he was one of the best pitchers of the era, but wouldn't call him one of the best of all time.  And that's not even a great comparison as baseball is more of an individual game than football.

I don't necessarily think he's Brock Purdy, but I think Starr is more Eli Manning than Peyton (and I don't consider Eli one of the best of all time)

[Hards Alumni]

I know the dangers of comparing across eras, but saying he's one of the best QBs of all time is pretty rocky.  He can be unquestionably the among the best of a decade/era, but not an all time great.  They won a Super Bowl the year he threw 9 TDs to 17 INTs.  There isn't a single passing category he stacks up favorably against other all time greats...except wins.  Some of that isn't all his fault, but still.

If pitchers in the 50s-60s used to get shelled and one of the Cy Young winners in the 60s had a 4.5 ERA and 80 Ks, you could say he was one of the best pitchers of the era, but wouldn't call him one of the best of all time.  And that's not even a great comparison as baseball is more of an individual game than football.

I don't necessarily think he's Brock Purdy, but I think Starr is more Eli Manning than Peyton (and I don't consider Eli one of the best of all time)

Yes, obviously the game has changed, and current stats are inflated for a number of reasons.  Longer seasons, penalty enforcement, QB protection, better athletes.

But these were the best guys of their time, comparing Bart Starr to Eli Manning is also pretty far off.  I'd never compare Bart Starr to Peyton Manning (the best QB of all time, imo) but he is certainly in the top 25ish.  And considering there have been thousands of NFL QB's, to say he was one of the best of all time isn't really a wild take.

I googled Best QBs of all time and every list has Bart in the top 20, and one that relies on a bunch of math has him 21.

https://sportsmathnetwork.com/qb-math/the-nfl-100-for-quarterbacks/

[cheebs09]

Can't spell Elite without the E-L-I.