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Author Topic: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse  (Read 1333 times)

Uncle Rico

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #50 on: March 28, 2024, 06:07:46 AM »
lost among all the obvious tragedy of personal and physical tragedy is the train line that carried "some" millions of miles of commutes from Delaware to DC with brown paper bag lunches in hand and...wait...there wasn't an Amtrak or train line on the bridge?  what the...must be a different bridge he was thinking of.  idk, that many commutes would be difficult to forget, but anyhoo, back to the ice cream shop for the flav of the day

8 out of 10
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tower912

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #51 on: March 28, 2024, 06:15:38 AM »
.5 out of 10.  So weak that it is inconsequential.  And irrelevant to the situation. 
« Last Edit: March 28, 2024, 06:18:00 AM by tower912 »
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #52 on: March 28, 2024, 08:00:59 AM »
lost among all the obvious tragedy of personal and physical tragedy is the train line that carried "some" millions of miles of commutes from Delaware to DC with brown paper bag lunches in hand and...wait...there wasn't an Amtrak or train line on the bridge?  what the...must be a different bridge he was thinking of.  idk, that many commutes would be difficult to forget, but anyhoo, back to the ice cream shop for the flav of the day


Ah.

I have seen the typical suspects have found a way to make this political. I really can't imagine someone's life being consumed politics like this.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

Uncle Rico

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #53 on: March 28, 2024, 08:22:08 AM »

Ah.

I have seen the typical suspects have found a way to make this political. I really can't imagine someone's life being consumed politics like this.

I wonder if Scott Drew ever drove over it?
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wadesworld

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #54 on: March 28, 2024, 08:39:31 AM »
I wonder if Scott Drew ever drove over it?

Maybe he got lost on his drive from Waco to Louisville.
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tower912

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #55 on: March 28, 2024, 09:11:51 AM »
Meh.  First, still honoring and mourning the dead. 
  Removing the bridge from the boat is going to take weeks, if not months. The logistics are a nightmare.  After that, clearing the channel of debris in order to reopen the port is another several weeks, if not months.  Maybe all done by Christmas?  Probably a year.  Oh, yeah, and finally then, rebuilding the bridge can commence.
   The economic impact is going to be felt through the US economy in the short and Intermediate range.  Figuring out the new supply chain realities will take time, cause delays, and drive up prices.  That should eventually settle.
   The impact on the Baltimore and Maryland economies is going to be more severe and longer lasting.   Job losses for the longshoreman and related industries.  In certain areas, with the bridge down, what was a 20 minute commute will now be a 2 hour commute.
    Good luck, Baltimore.
   
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

JWags85

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #56 on: March 28, 2024, 09:48:18 AM »
   The impact on the Baltimore and Maryland economies is going to be more severe and longer lasting.   Job losses for the longshoreman and related industries.  In certain areas, with the bridge down, what was a 20 minute commute will now be a 2 hour commute.
    Good luck, Baltimore.   

In non-snarky fashion, for a city that has had a lot of justified black eyes and bad press over the last decade, this could be a nice chance to buckle down, circle the wagons, and nail the response to this.  Then leverage it into a lot of positive press and good change for the city/area as a rebound.

tower912

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #57 on: March 28, 2024, 09:52:18 AM »
Yes.  There is an opportunity.   Hopefully, they are smarter than the Bears or Packers management
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

Jockey

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #58 on: March 28, 2024, 09:54:59 AM »
.5 out of 10.  So weak that it is inconsequential.  And irrelevant to the situation.

Unc gives higher scores for badness. So yours is like a 9.5. In the same ballpark.

Jockey

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #59 on: March 28, 2024, 09:56:36 AM »


Opinions are like ass holes, everyone's got one, aina?

Everyone’s got one - doesn’t mean everybody is one.

jesmu84

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #60 on: March 28, 2024, 10:06:56 AM »
The dental school must have had lead in the water pipes back in the day.

dgies9156

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #61 on: March 28, 2024, 10:10:56 AM »
The reality is dealing with the economic and social fallout from the collapse of the Francis Scott Key Bridge IS POLITICAL.

It's what we expect our government to do.

How Politicians do their job and the compassion they show will be a key sign of political effectiveness. The goals are to mourn the deceased, open the harbor and re-establish the transportation link. In Philadelphia, Minneapolis and even here in Florida in the 1980s, local, state and federal governments did a heck of a job reopening key transportation links. It's one of the few things anymore on which the GOP and the Democrats WILL agree.

One of the things our state government down here in Florida does really well is clean-up after hurricanes. It's the same formula, except it also must advise and guide the affected populous ahead of time. You may not like our governor (a lot of people don't) but he was really good in marshaling state resources and urging calm after Hurricane Ida hit.

Expect a lot of noise about equity in contract awards, what the new bridge will look like and how fast it will happen. But don't question the resolve of President Biden, or state and local officials over the desire to get that link open again. They'll get the job done!

Uncle Rico

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #62 on: March 28, 2024, 10:14:15 AM »
The reality is dealing with the economic and social fallout from the collapse of the Francis Scott Key Bridge IS POLITICAL.

It's what we expect our government to do.

How Politicians do their job and the compassion they show will be a key sign of political effectiveness. The goals are to mourn the deceased, open the harbor and re-establish the transportation link. In Philadelphia, Minneapolis and even here in Florida in the 1980s, local, state and federal governments did a heck of a job reopening key transportation links. It's one of the few things anymore on which the GOP and the Democrats WILL agree.

One of the things our state government down here in Florida does really well is clean-up after hurricanes. It's the same formula, except it also must advise and guide the affected populous ahead of time. You may not like our governor (a lot of people don't) but he was really good in marshaling state resources and urging calm after Hurricane Ida hit.

Expect a lot of noise about equity in contract awards, what the new bridge will look like and how fast it will happen. But don't question the resolve of President Biden, or state and local officials over the desire to get that link open again. They'll get the job done!

Good post, dg.  Not always, but often, responses to emergencies like this and hurricanes can make people work together and understand there is common ground
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StillAWarrior

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #63 on: March 28, 2024, 10:33:09 AM »
  Removing the bridge from the boat is going to take weeks, if not months. The logistics are a nightmare.  After that, clearing the channel of debris in order to reopen the port is another several weeks, if not months.  Maybe all done by Christmas?  Probably a year.  Oh, yeah, and finally then, rebuilding the bridge can commence.

I do not claim an special knowledge regarding these matters...I'm just passing along thoughts from an old friend. He is a retired USN Master Chief. That's way up at the top of the pecking order for USN enlisted. It doesn't make him an expert on cargo ships, but he does have quite a bit of knowledge that is not necessarily known to the average person. I was curious on his thoughts. I was very surprised that he believed that the port would be open within a week. He might be absolutely nuts -- I have no idea. He believes they'll have barges with cranes in there in pretty short order to move things out of the way to get the port operating. I hope he's right. I'm skeptical. Here's hoping that it's closer to a week than a year.

The bridge...well that's another story.
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JWags85

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #64 on: March 28, 2024, 11:14:16 AM »
I do not claim an special knowledge regarding these matters...I'm just passing along thoughts from an old friend. He is a retired USN Master Chief. That's way up at the top of the pecking order for USN enlisted. It doesn't make him an expert on cargo ships, but he does have quite a bit of knowledge that is not necessarily known to the average person. I was curious on his thoughts. I was very surprised that he believed that the port would be open within a week. He might be absolutely nuts -- I have no idea. He believes they'll have barges with cranes in there in pretty short order to move things out of the way to get the port operating. I hope he's right. I'm skeptical. Here's hoping that it's closer to a week than a year.

The bridge...well that's another story.

My cousin's husband works in management at the ports in Norfolk, VA and he said something similar.  Back to fully operational and business as usually will take a couple months, but in terms of major logistical hurdles and barriers to ships going in and out, he said within a month comfortably, without even knowing all the nitty gritty details of the cleanup needed.

dgies9156

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #65 on: March 28, 2024, 01:51:08 PM »
The bridge...well that's another story.

I'm guessing at least seven to 10 years before the bridge is replaced and operational.

The first issue is design. Unless the state and federal government puts exactly the same bridge built exactly the same way back in Baltimore Harbor, it's going to take time to design. People are seeking more artistic and more dramatic designs today that showcase or complement a community. In the Bay Bridge between Oakland and San Francisco's case, it more than 20 years from the time of the 1989 earthquake, when they knew they had a problem, until the current Oakland side bridge was opened.

In the Sunshine Skyway case, it was a long detour for as long time before it opened. But besides being more beautiful, the Skyway is now all but collision proof and can withstand whatever Mother Nature can throw at it.

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #66 on: March 28, 2024, 01:56:56 PM »
Oh I bet its less than that. I would say 4-5. The Sunshine Skyway bridge was a little different because it still had open span.
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tower912

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #67 on: March 28, 2024, 01:57:47 PM »
I am rooting for everybody else's information to be correct as far as reopening the port.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

dgies9156

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #68 on: March 28, 2024, 02:56:26 PM »
Not always, but often, responses to emergencies like this and hurricanes can make people work together and understand there is common ground

We learn when we screw up.

Louisiana was a total cluster after Hurricane Katrina. There was more finger-pointing than after a 9.00 ERA reliever gives up a grand slam in the bottom of the ninth. Nobody got along with anybody and everybody was looking to blame someone else. As a consequence, nothing got done when it needed to. Tempers raged. People suffered and confidence in government dropped to unprecedented levels.

When Superstorm Sandy hit New Jersey hard, President Obama went to New Jersey and let people know he cared. Governor Christie, who did the right thing by joining the President, was nastily criticized by the GOP for cavorting with "Him." The GOP then was just plain rude and their criticism was counterproductive.

After Hurricane Betsy hit New Orleans in 1965, Lyndon Johnson quietly slipped into the Lower Ninth Ward and knocked on doors to reassure people. One woman in particular fainted when the President knocked on her door and said, "I'm from the government. How can I help you?" President Johnson's effort may have been a bit hokey, but by being there the President showed the government cared.

President Biden and Secretary Pete did the same thing this week and I'm sure Republicans will support the President.

BrewCity83

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #69 on: March 28, 2024, 03:18:38 PM »
Looks like the insurance claim may be in the $3 Billion range...

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/a-historic-and-clubby-group-in-london-could-face-billions-in-claims-from-the-baltimore-bridge-collapse/ar-BB1kElcV?rc=1&ocid=winp1taskbar&cvid=5b98e51bc3c6493eb1f5626e4e1de4fa&ei=12

From the article:
"Analysts with Barclays estimate insurance claims from the bridge itself could total $1.2 billion, with as much as $700 million in claims for wrongful deaths, plus additional costs from business interruptions related to the port closure and bridge reconstruction, Bloomberg reported.

Economists told Business Insider the port closure itself will cost $15 million per day in lost economic activity, with other disruptions pushing the total into the tens of millions per day."


Also indicated that the risk will be spread amongst several large insurance firms in the Lloyd's of London exchange.
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WhiteTrash

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #70 on: March 28, 2024, 07:55:56 PM »
$700 million in wrongful death claims is outrageous. People die everyday in accidents and the settlements are not $100M. Also, I'd guess the estimate is roughly half of what the expected claims will be.

I will not blame the survivors and lawyers for asking for it. Judges and juries will be the focus of my ire.

Jockey

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #71 on: March 28, 2024, 08:15:43 PM »
Knowing that the bridge collapse was caused by DEI and our gay transportation secretary, R’s in the House are starting to talk about not wanting to fund a re-build.

WhiteTrash

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #72 on: March 28, 2024, 08:24:13 PM »
Knowing that the bridge collapse was caused by DEI and our gay transportation secretary, R’s in the House are starting to talk about not wanting to fund a re-build.
DUMB.

nyg

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Re: Francis Scott Key Bridge Collapse
« Reply #73 on: March 28, 2024, 08:42:55 PM »
dgies,
some of your posts are well, just interesting to say the least.  The bridge collapse and the reconstruction process has nothing to do with politics. Nothing.  Economic and social damage?  I don't get people who are absolutely obsessed with politics that it engulfs every aspect of everything. 7 to 10 years is probably not going to happen, unless the environmental people get involved.  You know like a crab or fish is going to go extinct.  Engineers are already conducting research to determine if the exiting pillars utilized to hold up the old bridge can just be fortified and not completely replaced. If so, they will just add few pillars for a future structure.  As far as a new design, times have changed with the development of CADD computers, etc and the southeast side of Baltimore is not a visitors selling point.  The bridge is a commuter bridge in an industrial area and does not have to complement anybody in the vicinity.

Jwags,
 Baltimore will never, never be a safe place.  It has been like this for over 40 years and nothing will ever change until they get rid of the 13,500 vacant row homes.  That's right 13,500 vacant row homes.  The beautiful Inner Harbor area, once vibrant with shops, bars, etc. is done. Close to Camden Yards, M&T Bank stadium . Every business has now moved out, gonna get demolished and try again.  Top Golf opened a year ago close by, nine months later, owners looking to sell.  Nine months...Maybe bridge disaster will bring some together, maybe for a month, then it's over. OK, move on  from hijack thread.

As far as the channel for ships.  Ship cranes and barges from US Navy and other salvage companies enroute, some tonight.  The Army Corps of Engineers are in charge.  First they plan to lift underwater debris off the vehicles where victims are located and remove remains.  Then next is to clear shipping channel, which of course is in middle region of the bridge.  I believe it is an 800 foot section.  After clearing debris, they must do some dredging of the area to ensure all is clear. An estimate of the clearing is two to three months, then shipping should resume, but don't know at what capacity.

Have to get ship out of there. Getting the debris structure off the ship will start by dismantling sections piece by piece.  Lots of welders going to do serious cutting.  Then the issue of the containers.  There are over 3,000 containers on that ship (not 600) and someone stated one million gallons of fuel.  Have no knowledge as the whether they remove containers off the ship, remove the fuel, pilot it back to port or tugboat it back. 

Tower,
commutes are not 20 minutes to two hours.  Maybe an hour for some.  State Police, local police, Maryland Highway Admin are going to receive funding in order to have additional officers/tow trucks/state highway crews, stationed at various locations by the tunnels and west/north side of beltway in order to respond to any accidents/incidents that happen.  This will expedite any cleanups, etc following an accident or some other issue.  Great pastime work for off duty personnel. 

14,000 longshoremen, truckers, inspectors, etc. effected.  But the tractor trailer guys are enroute and a lot of companies, a lot, have already been brought in and willing to help. $$$$$$$$$  Loading to drive and unload to trains also.  Just a mess. 

All I got.