NYC Subway Shooting

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Let's be honest.....if nothing changed after Sandy Hook it never will.  And that's beyond pathetic. 

[Blue Horseshoe]

Let's be honest.....if nothing changed after Sandy Hook it never will.  And that's beyond pathetic.

Only the United States govt is allowed to kill children with out consequence.

https://youtu.be/4iFYaeoE3n4?t=10

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/13/us/politics/afghanistan-drone-strike.html

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/12/13/us-will-not-punish-military-over-afghanistan-drone-killing-of-civilians.html

[TSmith34, Inc.]

OK, Alex. Now tell us about the gay frogs.
Love the guys who, when presented with data that contradicts their world view, are only capable of going full-on conspiracy theory and off-topic ramblings.

Roqqet went ahead and blurted it out last week: they don't care one iota about facts or objective reality, they live in a bubble where whatever they want to be true is.

Wallstreet got in a twofer. Not only did he say your facts don't matter, he got to blame it on the nebulous "media", one of the great boogeymen right behind Soros. And, without looking too deeply into the study you posted, I'm going to hazard a guess that "media reports" was not a data set used in the study.

[dgies9156]

To offer a slightly different angle on this, I am in favor of repealing the 2nd Amendment. I realize that is an "extreme" position, but it is because I've come to believe its a necessary step to achieve the Scoop definition of sensible gun control.  I am sick of taking L after L after L on this issue to try and seem reasonable and measured to gun nuts who are disinterested in reasonable compromise.  Meanwhile people are dying in droves in ways that doesn't happen in other countries, and the overton window continues to shift toward a more and more gun-drunk culture. I think the 2A has been manipulated beyond repair and needs to be done away with. Even if the 2A were repealed, I'm not against people keeping their low capacity handguns or hunting rifles or whatever.  But I also don't care enough about people's right to keep those to think its worth staying on the path we're on now.

Brother T:

There goes your argument!

Brother Burrow:

Using guns as an excuse for the violence in our society is a cop-out. We can legislate anything we like, even the point of changing our constitution. What we can't do is assume that if we pass a law, people will uniformly follow it. Nor can we assume that prosecutors and judges will do exactly what the legislature intends.

The difference between our society and many other first-world nations is the fundamental difference between American culture and literally anyplace else in the World. We pride ourselves in being a diverse culture that favors the individual's rights. We have too many elements of our society whose values and beliefs clash with other elements. It's more than political values -- it's the difference in how we live out lives and how we see the world around us. When cultures clash, we end up with violence, disagreement and what we have too frequently in America.

Look, there's a lot of other things we need to deal with to end poverty and crime in society. Begin with investment and move to ensure that we're productive enough that we're too busy to hate.

[MUBurrow]

Using guns as an excuse for the violence in our society is a cop-out. We can legislate anything we like, even the point of changing our constitution. What we can't do is assume that if we pass a law, people will uniformly follow it. Nor can we assume that prosecutors and judges will do exactly what the legislature intends.

The difference between our society and many other first-world nations is the fundamental difference between American culture and literally anyplace else in the World. We pride ourselves in being a diverse culture that favors the individual's rights. We have too many elements of our society whose values and beliefs clash with other elements. It's more than political values -- it's the difference in how we live out lives and how we see the world around us. When cultures clash, we end up with violence, disagreement and what we have too frequently in America.

I firmly disagree.  There isn't a need to play 4-D chess here.  We don't have gun death rates that are 8x Canada and 100x UK becuase "we pride ourselves in being a diverse culture that favors the individual's rights."  We aren't the home of mass shootings becuase "elements of our society's values clash with other elements." Its because we have the highest firearm ownership rates in the world.

[dgies9156]

Comparing Canada to the U.S. in anything is like comparing Delaware to California.

It just doesn't wash.

[MUBurrow]

Comparing Canada to the U.S. in anything is like comparing Delaware to California.

It just doesn't wash.

I don't know what you mean by that.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Brother T:

There goes your argument!

No, not really. I acknowledged some people may hold that position. But, as I stated, there is a VAST middle ground of sensible legislation that a majority of Americans support.

But again, can you point me to 1 GOP Senator, much less 10, that would support even the mildest of reforms?

[lawdog77]

No, not really. I acknowledged some people may hold that position. But, as I stated, there is a VAST middle ground of sensible legislation that a majority of Americans support.

But again, can you point me to 1 GOP Senator, much less 10, that would support even the mildest of reforms?

18 GOP Senators voted for VAWA. Granted, it should have been all of them, and the present VAWA legislation took out some common sense provisions.  Progress, perhaps?

[Pakuni]

Comparing Canada to the U.S. in anything is like comparing Delaware to California.

It just doesn't wash.

Why?

And you're missing the point regarding violence and guns. No, lowering the number of guns out there won't eliminate violence or violent people. But it will give them far less harmful tools with which to act.
Given your druthers, would you rather be in a shopping mall with a homicidal maniac armed with an AR-15 or a steak knife? An AR-15 or a hammer? An AR-15 or a 5-shot hunting rifle?

This is the disingenuous argument of the pro-gun crowd ... that no restriction is worthwhile because it can't prevent every instance of violence. Is saving lives not a worthy enough motivation?

[jesmu84]

Pakuni that is simply not true. Crimes deterred because of self defense are underreported by the media.
The same media that cried "Russian Collusion" for 5 years and regarding a candidate destroying supoenaed
information and a son's laptop ....Crickets. you are fed what they want you to hear. It doesn't fit their agenda.
The existing laws are simply not enforced

Can you point me to a source where there's available data on crimes deterred due to guns?

[rocket surgeon]

Can you point me to a source where there's available data on crimes deterred due to guns?

https://press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/493636.html

[MU82]

This is the disingenuous argument of the pro-gun crowd ... that no restriction is worthwhile because it can't prevent every instance of violence. Is saving lives not a worthy enough motivation?

Yep yep.

The only solution, obviously, is more guns for everyone.

[rocket surgeon]

Yep yep.

The only solution, obviously, is more guns for everyone.

Now you're getting it 82 and bigger magazines, more rounds oh man gotta stop man I'm getting all goose pimply

[Pakuni]

https://press.uchicago.edu/Misc/Chicago/493636.html

Try again. Lott's work has been widely discredited. And more recent, peer-reviewed studies have contradicted his claims.

[dgies9156]

I drove up 41 yesterday from Milwaukee for the first time in a decade, Google preferred the route.

The majority of billboards are porn shops, gun shops and "Pornography leads to human traffcking" presented by the Knights of Columbus. Wild place.

In Georgia, between Valdosta and Macon on Interstate 75 is a billboard that says, "Strippers, as seen on Jerry Springer!" Or billboards advertising strippers and gun shops that say, "Ample truck parking!"

[TSmith34, Inc.]

18 GOP Senators voted for VAWA. Granted, it should have been all of them, and the present VAWA legislation took out some common sense provisions.  Progress, perhaps?

I'll grant you, 18 > 10, and that definitely qualifies as the mildest of reforms.

[muwarrior69]

There have been MANY discussions on Scoop over the years in which even most of the farthest left folks never suggested taking away all guns.

As an independent who leans left on social issues and center on financial issues, I'd be content with passing laws that the vast majority of Americans consider "sensible," for example: requiring universal background checks; closing the gun-show loophole; preventing people with mental illnesses from buying or owning guns; banning high-capacity ammo magazines. All of those measures have wide bipartisan support according to numerous polls -- I'm talking 65% to 90%.

Instead, what we've gotten over the last several years have been looser gun laws. 21 states now do not require permits for the open or concealed carry of guns. Many states now let people take guns into bars -- I mean, what could possibly go wrong?

We have some very powerful lobbies in this country, led by the NRA, who make it difficult for any sensible gun legislation to be passed. In the aftermath of the Parkland shootings in your state, the then-president actually suggested: "Take the guns first, go through due process second." His vice president and several other politicians from his party nearly had a heart attack on the spot, and the NRA immediately stepped in to scold the then-president, who quickly reversed course lest he turn off the GOP's golden spigot.

So yes, there are "sensible" laws that could be enacted that have significant nationwide support across the political spectrum, and quite a few are even widely supported by Republicans ... but you're probably right that getting even a couple of GOP senators to sign on won't happen -- even though a majority of their constituents want these laws.

The last paragraph of your previous post made me laugh out loud. I liked it so much I decided to make it my signature, so thanks for that!

... and sadly none of that would have prevented Sandy Hook. His mother legally purchased all those guns. He kills his mother then goes on his rampage. What sensible law would prevent that? The only way to prevent that would be to confiscate every gun in the US and repeal the 2nd amendment; anything else is just hot air.

[MU82]

... and sadly none of that would have prevented Sandy Hook. His mother legally purchased all those guns. He kills his mother then goes on his rampage. What sensible law would prevent that? The only way to prevent that would be to confiscate every gun in the US and repeal the 2nd amendment; anything else is just hot air.

Absolutely ridiculous, defeatist take by somebody who simply doesn't want any change that would save human lives.

Happiness is a warm gun.

[Pakuni]

... and sadly none of that would have prevented Sandy Hook. His mother legally purchased all those guns. He kills his mother then goes on his rampage. What sensible law would prevent that? The only way to prevent that would be to confiscate every gun in the US and repeal the 2nd amendment; anything else is just hot air.

This is totally incorrect. There were at least two measures that had been suggested long before Sandy Hook - one that actually had been enacted - that would have at the very least lessened the tragedy.
1. Reinstated, rather than let expire, the 1994 Assault Weapons Ban, which outlawed the weapon used by the shooter and others of its kind
- Legislated limits on magazine capacity. The kid was carrying 30-round magazines, allowing him to fire off 150+ rounds in less than five minutes.
-

[TSmith34, Inc.]

... and sadly none of that would have prevented Sandy Hook. His mother legally purchased all those guns. He kills his mother then goes on his rampage. What sensible law would prevent that? The only way to prevent that would be to confiscate every gun in the US and repeal the 2nd amendment; anything else is just hot air.

'No Way To Prevent This,' Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens
https://www.theonion.com/no-way-to-prevent-this-says-only-nation-where-this-r-1846534576

[Vander Blue Man Group]

... and sadly none of that would have prevented Sandy Hook. His mother legally purchased all those guns. He kills his mother then goes on his rampage. What sensible law would prevent that? The only way to prevent that would be to confiscate every gun in the US and repeal the 2nd amendment; anything else is just hot air.

Speaking of hot air....

Just a sad, pathetic, incorrect take.

[Blue Horseshoe]

Kills 25 children and 2 pregnant women. Nominated for Director of the ATF.

Not even an apology.

[MU82]

Shooting yesterday in Columbia SC shopping mall.

I'm on a flight back home to Charlotte as I write this. I read the headline to my wife and the woman in the seat in front of us turned around and said: "That's where I live, and I'm shocked. That's a real nice mall."

It happens anywhere.

If only everyone in the mall had been packing and opened fire. That woulda solved it!

[4everwarriors]

Did ya pay four WI-FI, hey?