Vaccine Misinformation

[tower912]

I do not know anyone who has died from COVID who was fully vaccinated.     Between retired former co-workers, parishioners, and patient's I ran on, mid teens.    None of them were fully vaccinated.    I realize that it is only an anecdote.   

[Lennys Tap]

That's a lot Lenny. I'm sorry for your losses. Really sad.

Was this before the rollout of Paxlovid? My mom probably owes her life to that drug. She was vaxxed, but had several comorbities, and was in a really bad way for a couple days. The Paxlovid knocked it out in 48 hours. She got a rebound case after the course of the drug but it was incredibly mild compared to the original. I really think it was a lifesaver.

IIRC, yes, pre Paxlovid.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Huh. Why is it that the anti-vax, pro-Ivermectin side lies and manipulates their data and results?

Florida surgeon general fudged data for dubious COVID analysis
https://arstechnica.com/science/2023/02/floridas-polarizing-surgeon-general-accused-of-manipulating-covid-data/

"Florida's health department opened and then closed an investigation into the state's polarizing surgeon general, Joseph Ladapo, after a tipster claiming to have insider knowledge alleged that Ladapo "manipulated data" and committed "scientific fraud" in his final edits to what became a contentious, widely panned analysis on COVID-19 vaccine safety in young men.

The dubious analysis at the center of the controversy was posted online last October by the health department. Oddly, though, it did not list any authors or bear the health department's letterhead or other identifiers. Ladapo used the analysis as the basis for the state's concerning recommendation that males aged 18 to 39 should not receive an mRNA-based COVID-19 vaccine. That recommendation goes against the recommendations of all other major health organizations, including the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

As Ars previously reported, the analysis was roundly criticized by outside epidemiologists and other health experts, who described it as "utter rubbish," "extremely misleading," "comically bad," "seriously flawed," and "the absolute most batcrap study design and analysis plan I have ever seen." Others noted that the conclusion "smells of p-hacking" and data cherry-picking."

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Huh. Why is it that the anti-vax, pro-Ivermectin side lies and manipulates their data and results?

Florida surgeon general fudged data for dubious COVID analysis
https://arstechnica.com/science/2023/02/floridas-polarizing-surgeon-general-accused-of-manipulating-covid-data/

"Florida's health department opened and then closed an investigation into the state's polarizing surgeon general, Joseph Ladapo, after a tipster claiming to have insider knowledge alleged that Ladapo "manipulated data" and committed "scientific fraud" in his final edits to what became a contentious, widely panned analysis on COVID-19 vaccine safety in young men.

The dubious analysis at the center of the controversy was posted online last October by the health department. Oddly, though, it did not list any authors or bear the health department's letterhead or other identifiers. Ladapo used the analysis as the basis for the state's concerning recommendation that males aged 18 to 39 should not receive an mRNA-based COVID-19 vaccine. That recommendation goes against the recommendations of all other major health organizations, including the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

As Ars previously reported, the analysis was roundly criticized by outside epidemiologists and other health experts, who described it as "utter rubbish," "extremely misleading," "comically bad," "seriously flawed," and "the absolute most batcrap study design and analysis plan I have ever seen." Others noted that the conclusion "smells of p-hacking" and data cherry-picking."

🐷🐷

[pbiflyer]

Whacko doctors still nuts, this time about ivermectin curing the flu.
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/redirect-to/?redirect=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonpost.com%2Fhealth%2F2023%2F02%2F26%2Fivermectin-use-covid-flu-rsv%2F
Studies the alliance points to as supporting the use of ivermectin for RSV and flu were conducted in test tubes, which means their conclusions have not been tested in humans, medical experts say.

​​​​​​​“If you threw Coca-Cola into cell culture, you would see an antiviral effect. But you wouldn’t want to be squirting Coca-Cola up your nose against the flu and RSV,” said John P. Moore, a professor of microbiology and immunology at Weill Cornell Medical College.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Whacko doctors still nuts, this time about ivermectin curing the flu.
https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/redirect-to/?redirect=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonpost.com%2Fhealth%2F2023%2F02%2F26%2Fivermectin-use-covid-flu-rsv%2F
Studies the alliance points to as supporting the use of ivermectin for RSV and flu were conducted in test tubes, which means their conclusions have not been tested in humans, medical experts say.

​​​​​​​“If you threw Coca-Cola into cell culture, you would see an antiviral effect. But you wouldn’t want to be squirting Coca-Cola up your nose against the flu and RSV,” said John P. Moore, a professor of microbiology and immunology at Weill Cornell Medical College.

So you shouldn't put coke up your nose. Sound advice.

[pbiflyer]

So you shouldn't put coke up your nose. Sound advice.

Tony Montana disagrees with your assessment.

[Lennys Tap]

On the subject of Covid misinformation, our Energy Department has joined the FBI in concluding what logic dictated from the jump - that most likely the corona virus escaped from a lab in Wuhan and not a wet market.

Hmmm…guess it’s not a conspiracy theory anymore.

I love the way John Stewart put it: imagine a section  Hershey,Pa 50 feet from the Hershey chocolate factory engulfed in a cloud of chocolaty deliciousness - and the government determined that the most likely cause was a big shovel that accidentally scraped a random cocoa bean.

[Plaque Lives Matter!]

On the subject of Covid misinformation, our Energy Department has joined the FBI in concluding what logic dictated from the jump - that most likely the corona virus escaped from a lab in Wuhan and not a wet market.

Hmmm…guess it’s not a conspiracy theory anymore.

I love the way John Stewart put it: imagine a section  Hershey,Pa 50 feet from the Hershey chocolate factory engulfed in a cloud of chocolaty deliciousness - and the government determined that the most likely cause was a big shovel that accidentally scraped a random cocoa bean.

https://abcnews.go.com/amp/Health/lab-leak-theory-report-covids-origins/story?id=97493392

“Low confidence”. It’s not a conspiracy theory but it’s far from “confirming what logic dictated”. Also still very much the intelligence community’s minority view. There simply isn’t confirmation

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Take it easy on Lenny. Tucker didn’t go into that level of detail.

[Lennys Tap]

Take it easy on Lenny. Tucker didn’t go into that level of detail.

The only way to know that would be to watch him.

So you do.

I don’t.

[Lennys Tap]

https://abcnews.go.com/amp/Health/lab-leak-theory-report-covids-origins/story?id=97493392

“Low confidence”. It’s not a conspiracy theory but it’s far from “confirming what logic dictated”. Also still very much the intelligence community’s minority view. There simply isn’t confirmation

One explanation was logical but embarrassing.

One explanation was illogical but let everyone off the hook.

So the government and their version of Pravda picked “b”and called anyone who picked “a” racist, xenophobic and a conspiracy theorist. We’re mad at China now so we don’t care if they’re embarrassed (even if it embarrasses us too). So moving towards what was always the most logical theory is no longer racist, xenophobic or a conspiracy. It’s just the most likely. And since letting China off the hook is no longer our desired outcome it will be OK if one by one our intelligence agencies turn the obvious to consensus.

[Pakuni]

Lenny ... could you please explain why the DOE's "low confidence" finding is more credible than the findings of four other federal agencies which reached a different conclusion?

[tower912]

I am on the fence regarding origin.  I do know I do not trust the Chinese to admit error publicly.    So, continued mitigation.

[4everwarriors]

The real question is, do you trust the U.S. Government to be transparent and truthful?

[Skatastrophy]

The real question is, do you trust the U.S. Government to be transparent and truthful?

What source do you believe over the combined world governments? It has to be hard to get all of them on the same page to lie consistently, wouldn't it be? But they've all kept it up with great consistency. That seems like truth to me.

[Lighthouse 84]

I am on the fence regarding origin. 

Being on the fence about the origin seems like a perfectly rational position to take.  What has always bothered me is how some have been 100% about the origin not coming from a lab and anyone who thought it came from a lab is a conspiracy theorist. 

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

So the government and their version of Pravda picked “b”and called anyone who picked “a” racist, xenophobic and a conspiracy theorist.

This really didn't happen. The notion of a "lab leak" was never outright dismissed by the government - including by Fauci.

[Pakuni]

This really didn't happen. The notion of a "lab leak" was never outright dismissed by the government - including by Fauci.

Yep. Back in November, Fauci said:

Anthony Fauci, the retiring top official in the United States response to the Covid-19 pandemic, said Sunday he has “a completely open mind” about the origins of the respiratory virus.
“I have a completely open mind about that, despite people saying that I don’t,” Fauci said, when asked on NBC’s “Meet the Press” about the theory that the virus may have leaked from a lab in China in 2019.
Fauci acknowledged that a group of international, respected virologists has written that strong evidence shows the virus jumped from animals to humans, but said it “hasn’t been definitively proven.”

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/11/27/fauci-china-covid-lab-leak-theory-00070867

[Plaque Lives Matter!]

There were people on the media who dismissed it which was not correct. Just like there were people dismissing the risks, death tolls, etc (far more proveably factual, not remotely equivalent).

What feels like an overall rejection of the theory to some I think likely stems from an already adversarial position on the Chinese government. To not consider this position the logical and most likely answer is a direct attack on the idea that China=bad. (that’s not a xenophobic accusation, it’s a governmental/economic position)

[rocket surgeon]

This really didn't happen. The notion of a "lab leak" was never outright dismissed by the government - including by Fauci.

   HORSE HOCKEY!!


https://www.cbsnews.com/news/anthony-fauci-wuhan-lab-coronavirus-source-dismissal/


   Dr. Anthony Fauci, the nation's top infectious disease expert, AGAIN DISMISSED the idea that a lab in Wuhan, China, was the original source of the coronavirus. In an interview with National Geographic published Monday, Fauci cited scientific evidence that shows the virus was not man-made.

he was trying to "hood wink" us into the bat origin thing

this guy ("expert") knew damn well what and where this thing came from.  if your fav red haired pol knew back in 2020, drop the mic, where this came from without pause, "the china virus" fettucine sure in the hell knew.  or i would hope so because he is the grand pooba of "experts"

[jesmu84]

   HORSE HOCKEY!!


https://www.cbsnews.com/news/anthony-fauci-wuhan-lab-coronavirus-source-dismissal/


   Dr. Anthony Fauci, the nation's top infectious disease expert, AGAIN DISMISSED the idea that a lab in Wuhan, China, was the original source of the coronavirus. In an interview with National Geographic published Monday, Fauci cited scientific evidence that shows the virus was not man-made.

he was trying to "hood wink" us into the bat origin thing

this guy ("expert") knew damn well what and where this thing came from.  if your fav red haired pol knew back in 2020, drop the mic, where this came from without pause, "the china virus" fettucine sure in the hell knew.  or i would hope so because he is the grand pooba of "experts"

Where are the ivermectin studies?

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

   HORSE HOCKEY!!


https://www.cbsnews.com/news/anthony-fauci-wuhan-lab-coronavirus-source-dismissal/


   Dr. Anthony Fauci, the nation's top infectious disease expert, AGAIN DISMISSED the idea that a lab in Wuhan, China, was the original source of the coronavirus. In an interview with National Geographic published Monday, Fauci cited scientific evidence that shows the virus was not man-made.

he was trying to "hood wink" us into the bat origin thing

this guy ("expert") knew damn well what and where this thing came from.  if your fav red haired pol knew back in 2020, drop the mic, where this came from without pause, "the china virus" fettucine sure in the hell knew.  or i would hope so because he is the grand pooba of "experts"

From your link:

"If you look at the evolution of the virus in bats and what's out there now, [the scientific evidence] is very, very strongly leaning toward this could not have been artificially or deliberately manipulated … Everything about the stepwise evolution over time strongly indicates that [this virus] evolved in nature and then jumped species,"


Very, very, very strongly leaning is not an outright dismisal.

[Uncle Rico]

From your link:

"If you look at the evolution of the virus in bats and what's out there now, [the scientific evidence] is very, very strongly leaning toward this could not have been artificially or deliberately manipulated … Everything about the stepwise evolution over time strongly indicates that [this virus] evolved in nature and then jumped species,"


Very, very, very strongly leaning is not an outright dismisal.

Arguing with idiots is pointless

[Lennys Tap]

Arguing with idiots is pointless

True - some people are dumb enough to believe when told their chances are “one in a million” that they really have a chance. Or that being very, very, very sure is the same as having an open mind. Crazy.

I’d be surprised = unlikely, but possible

I’d be very surprised = LOL

I’d be very, very surprised = no f’n way

I’d be very, very, very, surprised = what are you, nuts