Vaccine Misinformation

[MU82]

From the WaPo's Dana Milbank:

The weekend began with the March for Life. It ended with a march for death.

Anti-vaccine activists decided to piggyback on Friday’s annual antiabortion march in the capital by having a “Defeat the Mandates” rally on Sunday. Combined, the two groups of (mostly) conservative activists engaged in a demonstration of mass inconsistency.

Friday’s crowd invoked the mantra of the pro-life movement: “A child, not a choice.” Sunday’s proclaimed the mantra of the abortion rights movement to oppose vaccines: “My body, my choice.”

Friday’s crowd endorsed the most obtrusive of big-government mandates, laws telling women they can’t make their own reproductive decisions. Sunday’s argued that health decisions must be made by patient and doctor, not government.

Friday’s crowd pleaded for the lives of the most vulnerable. Sunday’s demanded the right to infect the most vulnerable by eschewing vaccines and masks in shared spaces.

It was enough to make one wonder: Does taking ivermectin cause people to lose their sense of irony?

[TSmith34, Inc.]

I went on parental leave. Three months later, Fox is still killing its viewers.
https://www.mediamatters.org/fox-news/i-went-parental-leave-three-months-later-fox-still-killing-its-viewers

"COVID-19 killed roughly 130,000 Americans during my parental leave, which began in mid-October. With the omicron wave cresting as I returned on Monday, the seven-day rolling average exceeded 2,000 deaths a day. Those deaths are largely preventable: Death rates are staggeringly higher among those who have not taken the safe, free, remarkably effective vaccines against the virus that have been widely available to most people for months.

Vaccination could have been a unifying effort for the nation in which we came together to protect ourselves and each other from a pandemic that had already taken too many lives. But when I left, Fox News’ prime-time hosts were waging a nighty assault against the campaign to get Americans vaccinated. I’ve been doing this for too long to expect the network’s coverage to become more responsible in the interim. And it hasn’t. But the moral depravity of Fox’s effort to sabotage the vaccination campaign still takes my breath away. As the U.S. death toll approaches 900,000, the network’s most popular figures continue to use their influence to talk their viewers out of taking the shots that could save their lives.

The drumbeat continues, as Fox’s most powerful and influential figures sabotage the vaccination campaign and successfully dissuade their viewers from taking the shots that could save their lives.

Tucker Carlson, who is both the face of Fox and its most powerful force in shaping right-wing discourse and Republican politics, opened Monday’s show by promoting Sunday’s rally against vaccine mandates in Washington, D.C., which featured virulent speeches from notorious anti-vaxxers.

He then played a clip from Dr. Robert Malone, a vaccine scientist who frequently makes dubious claims about the COVID-19 vaccines on Fox and elsewhere, in which Malone said the vaccines are “leaky” with regard to the omicron variant, as they do not prevent infection or spread."

~~~

We can see in real time how effective this disinformation campaign is, as the resident dentists have moved from taking the vaccine to be anti-vaxxers and proponents of discredited farm remedies, all because of what they heard on Faux News.

[forgetful]

You're showing basic misunderstanding. The polio and smallpox vaccines prevented the diseases. Its been repeatedly shown that the covid vaccination merely lessens symptoms. This should be Vaccination 101 for any school administrator, hey?

Actually, for the most part, what you have stated is wrong, at the very least inaccurate.

Neither the polio or the smallpox vaccines prevented the disease by the metrics you are applying to the COVID vaccine.

For Polio, there are different forms of polio. The vaccine is ~80-90% effective against paralytic polio, but only 60-70% effective against other forms. These can be increased in terms of efficacy if you go through a complete series of 4 boosters, but even then your immunity will wane with increasing time.

Now these rates are based on symptomatic breakthrough infections. They weren't testing people like we are, so no idea on the rate of low symptom (not detected) or asymptomatic infections.

Polio vaccines were effective largely because Polio is not very infectious so it is going to be much more susceptible to eradication than something as infectious as COVID.

For smallpox, there is greater efficacy, ~95% of people have an immune response (5% have no response at all to vaccination), but the immunity also wanes after 3-5 years. It also relies on an active live infection (related virus), that was known to result in death for some individuals. The smallpox vaccine was effective in eradication, not because of its efficacy, but rather three other facts.

1) It was actually not that infectious.
2) It was not infectious until open sores were present, which was well after cases were diagnosed, so you could easily isolate people.
3) There were no other hosts besides humans. There was no additional animal reservoir.

COVID has animal hosts, it is infectious before symptoms/diagnosis occur, and unlike other diseases, we are actually testing people regularly, so weak symptomatic, or asymptomatic infections are identified, whereas they would not have been identified for Polio or smallpox.

So your attack on the difference in the COVID vaccine is invalid, and frankly wrong. Maybe vaccination 101 should be required for medical professionals.

[JWags85]

Actually, for the most part, what you have stated is wrong, at the very least inaccurate.

Neither the polio or the smallpox vaccines prevented the disease by the metrics you are applying to the COVID vaccine.

For Polio, there are different forms of polio. The vaccine is ~80-90% effective against paralytic polio, but only 60-70% effective against other forms. These can be increased in terms of efficacy if you go through a complete series of 4 boosters, but even then your immunity will wane with increasing time.

Now these rates are based on symptomatic breakthrough infections. They weren't testing people like we are, so no idea on the rate of low symptom (not detected) or asymptomatic infections.

Polio vaccines were effective largely because Polio is not very infectious so it is going to be much more susceptible to eradication than something as infectious as COVID.

For smallpox, there is greater efficacy, ~95% of people have an immune response (5% have no response at all to vaccination), but the immunity also wanes after 3-5 years. It also relies on an active live infection (related virus), that was known to result in death for some individuals. The smallpox vaccine was effective in eradication, not because of its efficacy, but rather three other facts.

1) It was actually not that infectious.
2) It was not infectious until open sores were present, which was well after cases were diagnosed, so you could easily isolate people.
3) There were no other hosts besides humans. There was no additional animal reservoir.

COVID has animal hosts, it is infectious before symptoms/diagnosis occur, and unlike other diseases, we are actually testing people regularly, so weak symptomatic, or asymptomatic infections are identified, whereas they would not have been identified for Polio or smallpox.

So your attack on the difference in the COVID vaccine is invalid, and frankly wrong. Maybe vaccination 101 should be required for medical professionals.

Thanks for your interesting perspective and analysis…instead of more partisan mocking and crap flinging.  This was great 👍🏼

[tower912]

It isn't partisan for me.   I have ended a 27 year friendship with the most liberal (campaigned for Bernie, thinks he sold out) person I know over Ivermectin.   He has gone down some internet rabbit holes before but this was of a different magnitude.   He went so far left he kind of looped around into far right.    Drove his electric car to DC for the rally Sunday.

 So, to me, not political.   

[TSmith34, Inc.]

So your attack on the difference in the COVID vaccine is invalid, and frankly wrong. Maybe vaccination 101 should be required for medical professionals.

And dentists

[jesmu84]

Stop he's already dead.gif

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Actually, for the most part, what you have stated is wrong, at the very least inaccurate.

Neither the polio or the smallpox vaccines prevented the disease by the metrics you are applying to the COVID vaccine.

For Polio, there are different forms of polio. The vaccine is ~80-90% effective against paralytic polio, but only 60-70% effective against other forms. These can be increased in terms of efficacy if you go through a complete series of 4 boosters, but even then your immunity will wane with increasing time.

Now these rates are based on symptomatic breakthrough infections. They weren't testing people like we are, so no idea on the rate of low symptom (not detected) or asymptomatic infections.

Polio vaccines were effective largely because Polio is not very infectious so it is going to be much more susceptible to eradication than something as infectious as COVID.

For smallpox, there is greater efficacy, ~95% of people have an immune response (5% have no response at all to vaccination), but the immunity also wanes after 3-5 years. It also relies on an active live infection (related virus), that was known to result in death for some individuals. The smallpox vaccine was effective in eradication, not because of its efficacy, but rather three other facts.

1) It was actually not that infectious.
2) It was not infectious until open sores were present, which was well after cases were diagnosed, so you could easily isolate people.
3) There were no other hosts besides humans. There was no additional animal reservoir.

COVID has animal hosts, it is infectious before symptoms/diagnosis occur, and unlike other diseases, we are actually testing people regularly, so weak symptomatic, or asymptomatic infections are identified, whereas they would not have been identified for Polio or smallpox.

So your attack on the difference in the COVID vaccine is invalid, and frankly wrong. Maybe vaccination 101 should be required for medical professionals.

[MU82]

Actually, for the most part, what you have stated is wrong, at the very least inaccurate.

Neither the polio or the smallpox vaccines prevented the disease by the metrics you are applying to the COVID vaccine.

For Polio, there are different forms of polio. The vaccine is ~80-90% effective against paralytic polio, but only 60-70% effective against other forms. These can be increased in terms of efficacy if you go through a complete series of 4 boosters, but even then your immunity will wane with increasing time.

Now these rates are based on symptomatic breakthrough infections. They weren't testing people like we are, so no idea on the rate of low symptom (not detected) or asymptomatic infections.

Polio vaccines were effective largely because Polio is not very infectious so it is going to be much more susceptible to eradication than something as infectious as COVID.

For smallpox, there is greater efficacy, ~95% of people have an immune response (5% have no response at all to vaccination), but the immunity also wanes after 3-5 years. It also relies on an active live infection (related virus), that was known to result in death for some individuals. The smallpox vaccine was effective in eradication, not because of its efficacy, but rather three other facts.

1) It was actually not that infectious.
2) It was not infectious until open sores were present, which was well after cases were diagnosed, so you could easily isolate people.
3) There were no other hosts besides humans. There was no additional animal reservoir.

COVID has animal hosts, it is infectious before symptoms/diagnosis occur, and unlike other diseases, we are actually testing people regularly, so weak symptomatic, or asymptomatic infections are identified, whereas they would not have been identified for Polio or smallpox.

So your attack on the difference in the COVID vaccine is invalid, and frankly wrong. Maybe vaccination 101 should be required for medical professionals.

Outstanding insight. Very appreciated.

[lostpassword]

For smallpox, there is greater efficacy, ~95% of people have an immune response (5% have no response at all to vaccination), but the immunity also wanes after 3-5 years. It also relies on an active live infection (related virus), that was known to result in death for some individuals.

The smallpox vaccine sounds pretty unpleasant.  I have seen scars from it but never gave that much thought.  Quite frankly, I'd rather 100 COVID shots than one of these.  Lesions on genitalia?  No thank you.

https://www.health.ny.gov/publications/7022/
If the vaccination is successful, a red and itchy bump develops at the vaccine site in three or four days. In the first week, the bump becomes a large blister, fills with pus, and begins to drain.

During the second week, the blister begins to dry up and a scab forms. The scab falls off in the third week, leaving a small scar.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1069029/
Inadvertent inoculation is the most common adverse event associated with smallpox vaccination. It occurred at a rate of 529 per million vaccinations in a 1968 study.20 Inadvertent or accidental inoculation usually occurs when a person transfers the vaccinia virus from the vaccination site to another location on their body, usually the eyes, mouth, nose, or genitalia.20,22 Most lesions resolve without therapy, but vaccinia immune globulin (VIG) may be useful for difficult lesions.

[Hards Alumni]

https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/coronavirus-covid-19-update-fda-limits-use-certain-monoclonal-antibodies-treat-covid-19-due-omicron

In light of the most recent information and data available, today, the FDA revised the authorizations for two monoclonal antibody treatments – bamlanivimab and etesevimab (administered together) and REGEN-COV (casirivimab and imdevimab) – to limit their use to only when the patient is likely to have been infected with or exposed to a variant that is susceptible to these treatments.

Based on Centers for Disease Control and Prevention data, the omicron variant of SARS-CoV-2 is estimated to account for more than 99% of cases in the United States as of Jan. 15. Therefore, it’s highly unlikely that COVID-19 patients seeking care in the U.S. at this time are infected with a variant other than omicron, and these treatments are not authorized to be used at this time. This avoids exposing patients to side effects, such as injection site reactions or allergic reactions, which can be potentially serious, from specific treatment agents that are not expected to provide benefit to patients who have been infected with or exposed to the omicron variant.

TLDR:  Monoclonal Antibodies don't work well enough on Omicron at the moment.

[Jay Bee]

Neil Young is a wuss

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Neil Young is a wuss

Says the guy who said this.

If they put a chicken on the court, I will not attend games.

[Jay Bee]

Says the guy who said this.

Bruh. Look at your username.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Bruh. Look at your username.

Fluffer the Blowjob Man?

Edit:  so, so glad the scoop filter doesnt auto change "blowjob".

[Skatastrophy]

Fluffer the Blowjob Man?

Edit:  so, so glad the scoop filter doesnt auto change "blowjob".

Sir this is a Christian Minecraft server

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Decidedly strange turn in this topic.

[Jockey]

Fluffer the Blowjob Man?

Edit:  so, so glad the scoop filter doesnt auto change "blowjob".

Classy as always, rocket.

[Lennys Tap]

Classy as always, rocket.

You quoted Ziggy, not Rocket.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

You quoted Ziggy, not Rocket.

Forget it. He's rolling.

[Jockey]

You quoted Ziggy, not Rocket.

I know that. But they are interchangeable.

[4everwarriors]

Line up y'all, hey?

[Hards Alumni]

Line up y'all, hey?

I don't think you want me to start posting all the L's of the unvaccinated at the hospital begging for help as they die.

Walk it back, old man.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

"Healthcare professional" spreads anti-vax memes. JFC. And the funny thing is, you lined up for the vax early, but now, after Fox ramped up their anti-vax propaganda, your weak mind has soaked it up like a sponge.

If you'd like us to start posting actual, real pictures of the unvaccinated suffering horribly as they die rather than stupid rightwing memes just say so.

[4everwarriors]

Just follow the science, dude. The truth will set you free, aina?