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Author Topic: Science still not settled on Natural Immunity vs Vaccines  (Read 29492 times)

thomaskyle

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Science still not settled on Natural Immunity vs Vaccines
« on: January 22, 2022, 07:26:31 AM »
Many older articles state the contrary.  But this is a moving target and data/science keeps evolving on this topic.  It will keep changing as more data comes in

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/cdc-report-natural-immunity-stronger-than-vaccines-alone-during-delta-wave/ar-AAT1mfC

The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole

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Re: Science still not settled on Natural Immunity vs Vaccines
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2022, 07:33:57 AM »
Many older articles state the contrary.  But this is a moving target and data/science keeps evolving on this topic.  It will keep changing as more data comes in

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/cdc-report-natural-immunity-stronger-than-vaccines-alone-during-delta-wave/ar-AAT1mfC


It doesn’t state the other finding of this study, which is that getting vaccinated is still way more safe even with reduced efficacy than getting Covid and developing natural immunity.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

jesmu84

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Re: Science still not settled on Natural Immunity vs Vaccines
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2022, 08:09:45 AM »
It doesn’t state the other finding of this study, which is that getting vaccinated is still way more safe even with reduced efficacy than getting Covid and developing natural immunity.

You have to understand that morons can't grasp risk/benefit

Frenns Liquor Depot

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Re: Science still not settled on Natural Immunity vs Vaccines
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2022, 08:25:37 AM »
I agree who the hell knows. The data on this link is the important point…the goal of endemic is that we don’t have to cancel normal healthcare every time an outbreak occurs.  Get vaccinated everyone. 
https://twitter.com/craig_a_spencer/status/1484555496837333002?s=21


MUBurrow

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Re: Science still not settled on Natural Immunity vs Vaccines
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2022, 09:28:17 AM »
“Natural immunity” is a crapty term. There’s nothing “natural” about catching a disease that either jumped to humans at a wet market or was engineered by people to begin with. It’s used in contrast with vaccination to implicitly accuse vaccines as being somehow worse or more dangerous because they were the result of the most cutting edge science known to man. Don’t fall victim to the terminology trap of ceding the field before you’ve even begun debating the merits.

jesmu84

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Re: Science still not settled on Natural Immunity vs Vaccines
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2022, 09:41:23 AM »
“Natural immunity” is a crapty term. There’s nothing “natural” about catching a disease that either jumped to humans at a wet market or was engineered by people to begin with. It’s used in contrast with vaccination to implicitly accuse vaccines as being somehow worse or more dangerous because they were the result of the most cutting edge science known to man. Don’t fall victim to the terminology trap of ceding the field before you’ve even begun debating the merits.

Good stuff here.

This is all very simple.... Risks associated with covid infection>risks associated with vaccination.

pbiflyer

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Re: Science still not settled on Natural Immunity vs Vaccines
« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2022, 10:39:38 AM »
Great first post by the OP!

TSmith34, Inc.

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Re: Science still not settled on Natural Immunity vs Vaccines
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2022, 11:06:11 AM »
What an idiotic point. Just another way to attempt to throw shade on vaccines.

But sure, go get your "natural immunity". Don't take the vaccine. Don't take precautions. In fact, like the recent story of the singer who intentionally caught COVID, proactively see if you can catch COVID without the "unnatural immunity" of vaccines.

Please proceed.
If you think for one second that I am comparing the USA to China you have bumped your hard.

forgetful

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Re: Science still not settled on Natural Immunity vs Vaccines
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2022, 11:47:01 AM »
The take-home message from this study remains the same. Get vaccinated. Save lives.

Regarding the overall data, I would like to see more fleshed out details on how this study was done, as it would appear to suffer from inherent flaws (similar flaws as the Israeli studies). The flaws would artificially increase the perceived protection of natural infection. I'll try to summarize them.

1. If you had a previous infection, then got re-infected during the study period, and as a result decided to get vaccinated. You would be excluded from the study, and the infection and/or hospitalization would not be added to the "prior infection" category.

2. If you were fully vaccinated, then got infected in June, and reinfected in Nov. You would count as 2 infections for the fully vaccinated category and 0 for the previously infected but vaccinated category. This artificially raises the perceived cases for fully vaccinated.

3. It doesn't take into consideration risk factors for the individual. For instance, first responders and medical professionals, are more at risk, and more likely to be vaccinated. It would be expected for them to have a higher incidence rate no matter what their vaccination/infection status was. Data should be corrected for these factors.

4. The data is dependent upon people getting tested. Some occupations (e.g. medical professionals, and others) have required mandatory testing. These occupations are required to be vaccinated in many cases. So there will be a bias to them having more asymptomatic positive cases that would not be observed in the prior infection cohort.

5. Related to 4, those reluctant to get the vaccine, are also most likely to be reluctant to get tested. So even mild asymptomatic cases are likely to go unrecorded. Many in this cohort will only be tested if the case is more severe.

Because of these, I wouldn't try to read too much into the exact data, besides the take home message that you should get vaccinated. I find it interesting that the only people pushing this study on this board are those that also believe that you are more likely to die from the vaccine than COVID. It is all quite mind numbing.

lostpassword

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Re: Science still not settled on Natural Immunity vs Vaccines
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2022, 11:54:42 AM »
What an idiotic point. Just another way to attempt to throw shade on vaccines.

But sure, go get your "natural immunity". Don't take the vaccine. Don't take precautions. In fact, like the recent story of the singer who intentionally caught COVID, proactively see if you can catch COVID without the "unnatural immunity" of vaccines.

Please proceed.

There may be a market opportunity to bottle up the real thing and sell it as the "natural vaccine" to compete with the Pfizer and Moderna.


tower912

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Re: Science still not settled on Natural Immunity vs Vaccines
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2022, 12:30:05 PM »
Great first post by the OP!

Not true.  Short but illuminating post history.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

pbiflyer

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Re: Science still not settled on Natural Immunity vs Vaccines
« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2022, 05:01:55 PM »
Not true.  Short but illuminating post history.

I didn’t think teal was necessary. Maybe I should have added “must be a dentist” to make the sarcasm clear.  ;D

TSmith34, Inc.

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Re: Science still not settled on Natural Immunity vs Vaccines
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2022, 05:27:31 PM »
I didn’t think teal was necessary. Maybe I should have added “must be a dentist” to make the sarcasm clear.  ;D
Speaking of which, did you see that the lady in Virginia who threatened to bring her guns to a school and shoot it up over mask mandates was a dental hygienist? LOL
If you think for one second that I am comparing the USA to China you have bumped your hard.

pbiflyer

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Re: Science still not settled on Natural Immunity vs Vaccines
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2022, 05:32:27 PM »
“Was” being the key word?

jesmu84

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Re: Science still not settled on Natural Immunity vs Vaccines
« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2022, 06:48:34 PM »
Speaking of which, did you see that the lady in Virginia who threatened to bring her guns to a school and shoot it up over mask mandates was a dental hygienist? LOL

Except wasn't she in support of the mandate?

pbiflyer

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Re: Science still not settled on Natural Immunity vs Vaccines
« Reply #15 on: January 22, 2022, 07:06:19 PM »
Except wasn't she in support of the mandate?
Um, no.

tower912

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Re: Science still not settled on Natural Immunity vs Vaccines
« Reply #16 on: January 22, 2022, 07:06:36 PM »
She probably just got two job offers.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

TSmith34, Inc.

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Re: Science still not settled on Natural Immunity vs Vaccines
« Reply #17 on: January 22, 2022, 10:42:18 PM »
Except wasn't she in support of the mandate?
Nope, ranted that her kids were not going to go to school with masks and that she would bring all her guns fully loaded. When the Board cut her off she said "See you on Monday".

If you think for one second that I am comparing the USA to China you have bumped your hard.

statnik

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Re: Science still not settled on Natural Immunity vs Vaccines
« Reply #18 on: January 24, 2022, 10:08:18 AM »
What an idiotic point. Just another way to attempt to throw shade on vaccines.

But sure, go get your "natural immunity". Don't take the vaccine. Don't take precautions. In fact, like the recent story of the singer who intentionally caught COVID, proactively see if you can catch COVID without the "unnatural immunity" of vaccines.

Please proceed.

A small pct of those skeptical of the vaccine are actually trying to purposely catch the virus.  It’s a dumb thing, I will certainly admit, and not indicative of the average vaccine skeptic.

MU82

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Re: Science still not settled on Natural Immunity vs Vaccines
« Reply #19 on: January 24, 2022, 02:15:32 PM »
Nope, ranted that her kids were not going to go to school with masks and that she would bring all her guns fully loaded. When the Board cut her off she said "See you on Monday".

Why didn't she just shoot Covid? Duh.
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Jay Bee

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Re: Science still not settled on Natural Immunity vs Vaccines
« Reply #20 on: January 24, 2022, 03:37:37 PM »
Hey but do masks work?
Thanks for ruining summer, Canada.

TSmith34, Inc.

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Re: Science still not settled on Natural Immunity vs Vaccines
« Reply #21 on: January 24, 2022, 05:03:36 PM »
Not to steal Uncle Rico's line, but Yes
If you think for one second that I am comparing the USA to China you have bumped your hard.

jesmu84

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Re: Science still not settled on Natural Immunity vs Vaccines
« Reply #22 on: January 24, 2022, 05:39:40 PM »
Hey but do masks work?

Yes.

Thanks for your question.  Hope you take it to heart.

Billy Hoyle

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Re: Science still not settled on Natural Immunity vs Vaccines
« Reply #23 on: January 25, 2022, 08:32:07 PM »
Hey but do masks work?

Cloth, which the majority of people use, do not.

https://www.infectioncontroltoday.com/view/-stealth-omicron-starting-to-get-noticed-setting-off-some-alarms

And, don’t work if you’re sitting at a restaurant, coffee shop, or bar, table, but they do if you’re walking to the restroom.
“You either smoke or you get smoked. And you got smoked.”

Frenns Liquor Depot

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Re: Science still not settled on Natural Immunity vs Vaccines
« Reply #24 on: January 25, 2022, 08:42:21 PM »
Cloth, which the majority of people use, do not.

https://www.infectioncontroltoday.com/view/-stealth-omicron-starting-to-get-noticed-setting-off-some-alarms

And, don’t work if you’re sitting at a restaurant, coffee shop, or bar, table, but they do if you’re walking to the restroom.

So wear a good mask. This is an odd talking point.  Personal responsibility right?

 

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