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Author Topic: Science still not settled on Natural Immunity vs Vaccines  (Read 29174 times)

JWags85

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Re: Science still not settled on Natural Immunity vs Vaccines
« Reply #50 on: January 26, 2022, 07:49:58 PM »
So it's more whining vs a principled stand?

Do you take principled stands against things you rarely encounter? There are a couple ridiculous oversight issues where my parents live in St Pete, but they affect me twice a year so I complain a bit but whatever.  If it was the same in my own complex I would have a much more impassioned complaint or gripe.

I fly enough to feel strongly about TSA, but the majority of my ire gets dissipated by Pre-Check.   And honestly, if you want excessive intrusive security theater, travel to Asia or India.

It’s sheer inconvenience annoyance, got it.

Oh good, more of the “masks don’t bother me, so anyone who as an issue with them is a selfish whiner” ivory tower BS.  Thanks for the valuable contribution.

🏀

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Re: Science still not settled on Natural Immunity vs Vaccines
« Reply #51 on: January 26, 2022, 10:55:45 PM »
No, they bother me. Masks bother me.

But wearing one to stop viral spread isn’t an inconvenience.

Jay Bee

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Re: Science still not settled on Natural Immunity vs Vaccines
« Reply #52 on: January 27, 2022, 03:30:12 PM »
No, they bother me. Masks bother me.

But wearing one to stop viral spread isn’t an inconvenience.

But it isn’t helpful, so, why??
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jesmu84

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Re: Science still not settled on Natural Immunity vs Vaccines
« Reply #53 on: January 27, 2022, 04:02:25 PM »
But it isn’t helpful, so, why??

Masks don't work?


4everwarriors

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Re: Science still not settled on Natural Immunity vs Vaccines
« Reply #55 on: February 04, 2022, 09:13:21 AM »
Which is exactly what would be expected based on the science. Prior infection is never brought into a mandated vaccine conversation, which is part of the smoke over the past two years, aina?



#fearandcontrol
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Skatastrophy

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Re: Science still not settled on Natural Immunity vs Vaccines
« Reply #56 on: February 04, 2022, 09:30:54 AM »
The unvaccinated's daily cases of covid 2x as high as those that are vaxxed. The unvaccinated daily deaths are 20x as high those that are vaxxed. Weird that "natural immunity" isn't protecting the unvaccinated group. Good thing that the twitter doctors will provide palliative care in their time of need.

Pakuni

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Re: Science still not settled on Natural Immunity vs Vaccines
« Reply #57 on: February 04, 2022, 09:52:21 AM »
Oh good, more of the “masks don’t bother me, so anyone who as an issue with them is a selfish whiner” ivory tower BS.  Thanks for the valuable contribution.

He's not wrong.

forgetful

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Re: Science still not settled on Natural Immunity vs Vaccines
« Reply #58 on: February 04, 2022, 09:56:56 AM »
Which is exactly what would be expected based on the science. Prior infection is never brought into a mandated vaccine conversation, which is part of the smoke over the past two years, aina?

#fearandcontrol

As with most of these types of studies, there are serious flaws in their study. Very small sample sizes, and only has healthy young individuals in the data set. They acknowledge that another study indicated that up to 36% of those previously infected do not generate antibodies (likely in those less healthy that are not part of this data set). They also do not know if and how many of the individuals had multiple COVID infections.

The actual study also did not compare between those infected and those vaccinated. The second figure provided in the tweet is not in the published article. Likely because it would have been rejected with that figure due to the grossly different sample sizes.

Regardless, the authors note the actual take-home message, "Don't try and go get COVID," because the much safer route is vaccination. The take-home message is still go get vaccinated.

I don't understand the fascination with these studies. They never change the take-home message, and are very difficult to impossible to do robustly.

The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole

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Re: Science still not settled on Natural Immunity vs Vaccines
« Reply #59 on: February 04, 2022, 09:59:56 AM »
Which is exactly what would be expected based on the science. Prior infection is never brought into a mandated vaccine conversation, which is part of the smoke over the past two years, aina?

#fearandcontrol


How is vaccination "fear and control?"  Really, your points are getting worse and worse with each post.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

JWags85

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Re: Science still not settled on Natural Immunity vs Vaccines
« Reply #60 on: February 04, 2022, 10:16:33 AM »
He's not wrong.

Expect this from you by this point. 

I noticed the sun came up this morning like I expect it to each day.  Look forward to your rebuttal on why thats incorrect.

TSmith34, Inc.

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Re: Science still not settled on Natural Immunity vs Vaccines
« Reply #61 on: February 04, 2022, 10:24:59 AM »
I don't understand the fascination with these studies. They never change the take-home message, and are very difficult to impossible to do robustly.
It's perplexing, isn't it? Somehow they imagine it makes some point.

Does it mean you should try to catch COVID to protect yourself from catching COVID? Obviously not if you have two brain cells to rub together.

Does it mean you shouldn't get vaccinated if you have already had COVID? Obviously not, since getting the vaccine and boosters even after having COVID significantly increases your chances of not dying from COVID.

But apparently those pushing this line of "thinking" really don't have two brain cells to rub together.
If you think for one second that I am comparing the USA to China you have bumped your hard.

Lighthouse 84

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Re: Science still not settled on Natural Immunity vs Vaccines
« Reply #62 on: February 04, 2022, 10:35:14 AM »

How is vaccination "fear and control?"  Really, your points are getting worse and worse with each post.
It's fear and control when Zeke Emanuel goes on MSNBC to say kids under 5 better get vaccinated or else they'll get a serious case of omicron, when studies show the opposite, and he receives no push back.
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2. The Gym.                      8. Park Avenue.
3. The Ardmore.                 9. Mugrack.
4. O'Donohues.                 10. Lighthouse.
5. O'Pagets.
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Pakuni

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Re: Science still not settled on Natural Immunity vs Vaccines
« Reply #63 on: February 04, 2022, 10:36:09 AM »
nm
« Last Edit: February 04, 2022, 11:02:27 AM by Pakuni »

Uncle Rico

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Re: Science still not settled on Natural Immunity vs Vaccines
« Reply #64 on: February 04, 2022, 10:45:24 AM »

How is vaccination "fear and control?"  Really, your points are getting worse and worse with each post.

What’s scarier?  “Fear and control” or urban settings?  Tune into Scoop Fox News to find out next
Ramsey head thoroughly up his ass.

The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole

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Re: Science still not settled on Natural Immunity vs Vaccines
« Reply #65 on: February 04, 2022, 11:03:00 AM »
It's fear and control when Zeke Emanuel goes on MSNBC to say kids under 5 better get vaccinated or else they'll get a serious case of omicron, when studies show the opposite, and he receives no push back.


I actually had to look this guy up to see who he is.  OK...not sure what his statement has to do with "fear and control" by the government.  But I guess being outraged about anything Covid related is the what some people want to do.

But why *not* get your children vaccinated?  Seems like a pretty smart thing to do.

“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

MU82

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Re: Science still not settled on Natural Immunity vs Vaccines
« Reply #66 on: February 04, 2022, 11:11:58 AM »
This limited study specifically recommends avoiding Covid, and the best way to do so is by getting vaccinated.

So thanks for confirming what's already been scientifically proven by study after study after study.

I believe the scientific term is "Duh!"
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Lighthouse 84

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Re: Science still not settled on Natural Immunity vs Vaccines
« Reply #67 on: February 04, 2022, 11:19:56 AM »
This limited study specifically recommends avoiding Covid, and the best way to do so is by getting vaccinated.

So thanks for confirming what's already been scientifically proven by study after study after study.

I believe the scientific term is "Duh!"
"Scientifically proven by study after study" that there are no long term effects from the Covid vaccine on children under 5?

I believe the scientific term is "Huh!"
HILLTOP SENIOR SURVEY from 1984 Yearbook: 
Favorite Drinking Establishment:

1. The Avalanche.              7. Major Goolsby's.
2. The Gym.                      8. Park Avenue.
3. The Ardmore.                 9. Mugrack.
4. O'Donohues.                 10. Lighthouse.
5. O'Pagets.
6. Hagerty's.

Pakuni

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Re: Science still not settled on Natural Immunity vs Vaccines
« Reply #68 on: February 04, 2022, 12:17:12 PM »
It's fear and control when Zeke Emanuel goes on MSNBC to say kids under 5 better get vaccinated or else they'll get a serious case of omicron, when studies show the opposite, and he receives no push back.

That sounds bad, unless you put his comment in its full context.
If you watch the entire answer, it's pretty obvious he's saying that kids who get omicron are likely to face a serious case if they're unvaccinated relative to kids who are vaccinated.
That still might be wrong. I don't know, though I suspect it's probably true. But it's not quite the "fear and control" you make it out to be.
Here's the full interview.
https://www.msnbc.com/andrea-mitchell-reports/watch/dr-zeke-emanuel-vaccinating-children-5-and-above-seems-like-it-s-a-no-brainer-132282949889

That said, do you consider it "fear and control" when a doctor tells a patient to eat healthier or stop smoking? Is 4ever using #fearandcontrol every time he tells a patient to floss?

pacearrow02

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Re: Science still not settled on Natural Immunity vs Vaccines
« Reply #69 on: February 04, 2022, 12:28:54 PM »

I actually had to look this guy up to see who he is.  OK...not sure what his statement has to do with "fear and control" by the government.  But I guess being outraged about anything Covid related is the what some people want to do.

But why *not* get your children vaccinated?  Seems like a pretty smart thing to do.

Why not get your children under 5 vaccinated?  Cause Pfizer’s own data says it doesn’t make a lick of difference, so I guess why should you?

They’re currently collecting data to see if a 3 shot regime for this age population will show some level of efficacy but their 2 shot data for this age group helped zippo.

MU82

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Re: Science still not settled on Natural Immunity vs Vaccines
« Reply #70 on: February 04, 2022, 02:11:14 PM »
"Scientifically proven by study after study" that there are no long term effects from the Covid vaccine on children under 5?

I believe the scientific term is "Huh!"

I was talking about the numerous studies on the general population, which you knew.
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pacearrow02

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Re: Science still not settled on Natural Immunity vs Vaccines
« Reply #71 on: February 04, 2022, 02:16:02 PM »
I was talking about the numerous studies on the general population, which you knew.

So use data from adult studies to justify pediatric use??  Scientific term remains, “huh”?

Not sure if that’s your argument or not for 5 and younger.  Thread has jumped around a little so apologies if I’m misrepresenting.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2022, 02:17:45 PM by pacearrow02 »

The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole

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Re: Science still not settled on Natural Immunity vs Vaccines
« Reply #72 on: February 04, 2022, 02:36:04 PM »
Why not get your children under 5 vaccinated?  Cause Pfizer’s own data says it doesn’t make a lick of difference, so I guess why should you?

They’re currently collecting data to see if a 3 shot regime for this age population will show some level of efficacy but their 2 shot data for this age group helped zippo.


Define "a lick of difference" because last I checked, that wasn't a scientific term.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

Lighthouse 84

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Re: Science still not settled on Natural Immunity vs Vaccines
« Reply #73 on: February 04, 2022, 02:48:02 PM »
I was talking about the numerous studies on the general population, which you knew.
Actually, I didn't know that's what you were talking about.  You seemed to be replying to my post, which dealt specifically with studies on children showing that children aren't more likely to get a serious case of covid if not vaccinated so I had no reason to know you were talking about the general population.   If you truly meant general population, then I don't disagree with you.
HILLTOP SENIOR SURVEY from 1984 Yearbook: 
Favorite Drinking Establishment:

1. The Avalanche.              7. Major Goolsby's.
2. The Gym.                      8. Park Avenue.
3. The Ardmore.                 9. Mugrack.
4. O'Donohues.                 10. Lighthouse.
5. O'Pagets.
6. Hagerty's.

pacearrow02

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Re: Science still not settled on Natural Immunity vs Vaccines
« Reply #74 on: February 04, 2022, 02:51:33 PM »

Define "a lick of difference" because last I checked, that wasn't a scientific term.

Below is part of Pfizers definition for "lick of difference".  Too long, I prefer and stick with the previously stated phrase, not a lick of difference.
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While the study is ongoing and remains blinded, a pre-specified immunogenicity analysis was conducted on a subset of the study population one month following the second dose. Compared to the 16- to 25-year-old population in which high efficacy was demonstrated, non-inferiority was met for the 6- to 24-month-old population but not for the 2- to under 5-year-old population in this analysis. No safety concerns were identified and the 3 µg dose demonstrated a favorable safety profile in children 6 months to under 5 years of age.

The decision to evaluate a third dose of 3 µg for children 6 months to under 5 years of age reflects the companies’ commitment to carefully select the right dose to maximize the risk-
benefit profile. If the three-dose study is successful, Pfizer and BioNTech expect to submit data to regulators to support an Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) for children 6 months to under 5 years of age in the first half of 2022.

 

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