Golf 2022

[NolongerWarriors]

Morikawa will be gone soon, too.

[Pakuni]

I mean, if it weren't for the controversial nature of the Saudi regime, why wouldn't they take the money?  They don't owe the PGA anything.

But other than that, how did you enjoy the play, Mrs. Lincoln?

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

But other than that, how did you enjoy the play, Mrs. Lincoln?

Well as we have seen all too many times, ones hard ethical stances soften up the more $$ is involved. 

[cheebs09]

Koepka doesn’t surprise me very much. He always seems to view golf as a job rather than loving it. Plus, he’s able to still play the majors. Also, now that he’s not a force at majors anymore, it makes more sense.

Morikawa surprises me a lot more. He seemed like he was starting to build his legacy on tour and could have been the face of the future.

[Goose]

I am looking forward to Liv having 70+ guys signed up and watching how they handle who gets in the 48 man field. There are going be a nice number of guys that thought they had minimum of $120k for showing up not getting into the field. I am predicting by Labor Day there will be at least one defector from Liv.

[nyg]

Koepka, who is 32, has only won once (Phoenix Open) in the last three years.  He did an equipment change, had some injuries, dropped in OWGR, yet still gets massive television coverage when he plays.

If rumor of him getting guareented 150M is true, how can one turn that down.  Saudis have billions to give away and I am now convinced other younger PGA studs are thinking of a life changing decision. 

Players such as Homa, Berger, Finau, Niemann, Hovland, and Schauffle.

The big guns, Rahm, Scheffler, Rory, Thomas, Hidecki, Spieth and Smith are probably staying, but if one of them goes, its a whole new ballgame. Morikowa rumor is well, just a rumor. 

Banning the LIV players from majors will certainly effect the decisions, but again this is life changing money for some and they are always one injury away.


Sorta sucks for golf.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I don't know how non-PGA majors would be able to ban players from LIV if they would otherwise qualify.  At least for the US Open and the Masters, I would think that would be seen as anti-competitive behavior.  I don't believe that you have to be a card carrying PGA member now.

[Uncle Rico]

I am looking forward to Liv having 70+ guys signed up and watching how they handle who gets in the 48 man field. There are going be a nice number of guys that thought they had minimum of $120k for showing up not getting into the field. I am predicting by Labor Day there will be at least one defector from Liv.

We’ll see.  With the guranteed money, do they care?

[Uncle Rico]

I don't know how non-PGA majors would be able to ban players from LIV if they would otherwise qualify.  At least for the US Open and the Masters, I would think that would be seen as anti-competitive behavior.  I don't believe that you have to be a card carrying PGA member now.

It’s their events.  They can do what they want.

[nyg]

I don't know how non-PGA majors would be able to ban players from LIV if they would otherwise qualify.  At least for the US Open and the Masters, I would think that would be seen as anti-competitive behavior.  I don't believe that you have to be a card carrying PGA member now.

Probably up to the governing bodies and will potentially end up in court.  PGA Commissioner making a statement today, so we will see.

Sidenote:  Nick Faldo leaving CBS.  Trevor Immelman taking his spot.  I wish Phil was available because he was awesome last year when he sat in the booth.  Now, will never happen. 

[Goose]

Rico

I think there has to be a couple of younger guys that did not crazy money that still love to play tournament golf. I would think that playing in the late groups on Sunday in front of big crowds has to mean something to some of these guys. No doubt quick money is hard to turn down, but I think there will be guys having doubts on their decision before the summer is over.


As for these guys playing in the majors in the future, aside from former major champs the world ranking or major performance from previous year is only they will be able to get in. The big stick the PGA still has is world rankings and Liv tournaments should be included at this time.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

It’s their events.  They can do what they want.

I don't think it's that simple.  They have listed criteria for qualification.

https://www.usopen.com/qualifying/exemptions.html

https://www.masters.com/en_US/players/invitees_2022.html (toward the bottom)

As far as I can tell, they don't say anything about being a member in good standing of a PGA tour.  Of course these are the 2022 criteria, and I don't know if they have "published" criteria for 2023.  But they can't just say "but not you" to someone who would have otherwise qualified without facing a lawsuit of some sort. 

[Uncle Rico]

I don't think it's that simple.  They have listed criteria for qualification.

https://www.usopen.com/qualifying/exemptions.html

https://www.masters.com/en_US/players/invitees_2022.html (toward the bottom)

As far as I can tell, they don't say anything about being a member in good standing of a PGA tour.  Of course these are the 2022 criteria, and I don't know if they have "published" criteria for 2023.  But they can't just say "but not you" to someone who would have otherwise qualified without facing a lawsuit of some sort.

If they don’t get WGR points, they won’t have an avenue except for current other exemptions.

[Pakuni]

I am looking forward to Liv having 70+ guys signed up and watching how they handle who gets in the 48 man field. There are going be a nice number of guys that thought they had minimum of $120k for showing up not getting into the field. I am predicting by Labor Day there will be at least one defector from Liv.

Seems part of the allure of LIV for the big-name players is it doesn't matter how well they perform. They're getting guaranteed money up front.

[Uncle Rico]

Seems part of the allure of LIV for the big-name players isn't it doesn't matter how well they perform. They're getting guaranteed money up front.

That’s it.  A lot of these clowns don’t like playing to make cuts and think it’s beneath them.

That’s why the match play has that stupid pod system, so guys got 3 guranteed days of play. 

Everyone complains about the stale tour format, but the players don’t actually want to commit to match play or mixed-events.  Damned if the tour does or doesn’t

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

If they don’t get WGR points, they won’t have an avenue except for current other exemptions.

Right. That's why I said "would otherwise qualify" as in a past champion or top finisher from the year prior.

[MuggsyB]

Koepka's reaction to the LIV question at his USOpen press conference was pretty much a give away that he was gonzo. 

[Pakuni]

Well as we have seen all too many times, ones hard ethical stances soften up the more $$ is involved.

Well, sure.
But my point is you can't separate LIV from its founders, or the fact that it (and its players) are being used by a tyrannical regime to distract from its tyranny. And that the players are willing participants in said distraction.
I think one reasonably can be a critic of the PGA Tour and some of its practices, and recognize that individual players owe it nothing, while also labeling the LIV defectors for who they are.

And lest we forget, Brooks Koepka, just a few short months ago:

Koepka, speaking Wednesday, less than 24 hours after Mickelson attempted to save himself from his unflattering comments about the PGA Tour, believes somebody will “sell out” and ultimately opt for the Greg Norman-backed, Saudi-financed Super Golf League.
“I think it’s going to still keep going,” Koepka said. “I think there will still be talk. Everyone talks about money. They’ve got enough of it. I don’t see it backing down. They can just double up and they’ll figure it out. They’ll get their guys. Somebody will sell out and go to it.”

https://golfweek.usatoday.com/2022/02/23/brooks-koepka-pga-tour-sell-out-saudi-arabia-golf/

[MUBurrow]

I don't want to get too conspiratorial here, and Occam's Razor says this is probably just a good old fashioned money grab.  But are more of these guys in Mickelson-style financial trouble than we think?  I'm of the position that the Saudis either bought up or threatened to buy up Mickelson's debt, and they basically own him at this point.  I wouldn't be surprised if that all was in the works when Mickelson made his scary MFers comments to try to push back against them and it went... poorly. I've been trying to think up the rationale for him to make those comments since they happened and have otherwise come up empty.

It just seems weird that with all the money out there to be won on the tour, these guys are ready to jump ship like this even if the up front checks are huge. And if LIV is making downstream promises and they don't deliver what are you going to do, sue them?

[WhiteTrash]

Well as we have seen all too many times, ones hard ethical stances soften up the more $$ is involved.

“Today, under the dictatorial rule of Xi Jinping – a neo-Maoist thug – the PGA Tour and LPGA Tour include annual treks to Shanghai, China for the WGC-HSBC Champions and Buick LPGA Shanghai,” Pro Golf Weekly’s Jeff Smith recently wrote in an article titled “Where’s the Sportswashing Outrage With Communist China?”

“How evil is the current regime in relation to Mao?” Smith continued, referring to the founding father of the People’s Republic of China. “Last year, the United States officially accused China of committing crimes against humanity, which had engaged in the forced assimilation and eventual erasure of a vulnerable ethnic and religious minority group.”

The PGA deal in China establishes a direct connection between the golf organization and China’s government. Financing came from Yao Capital, a company whose principal is also a member of the Chinese People’s Political Consultative Conference, a political advisory group to the Chinese government, which is in the midst of a five-year plan to develop the country’s sports into a $740 billion industry by 2025."

[Uncle Rico]

“Today, under the dictatorial rule of Xi Jinping – a neo-Maoist thug – the PGA Tour and LPGA Tour include annual treks to Shanghai, China for the WGC-HSBC Champions and Buick LPGA Shanghai,” Pro Golf Weekly’s Jeff Smith recently wrote in an article titled “Where’s the Sportswashing Outrage With Communist China?”

“How evil is the current regime in relation to Mao?” Smith continued, referring to the founding father of the People’s Republic of China. “Last year, the United States officially accused China of committing crimes against humanity, which had engaged in the forced assimilation and eventual erasure of a vulnerable ethnic and religious minority group.”

The PGA deal in China establishes a direct connection between the golf organization and China’s government. Financing came from Yao Capital, a company whose principal is also a member of the Chinese People’s Political Consultative Conference, a political advisory group to the Chinese government, which is in the midst of a five-year plan to develop the country’s sports into a $740 billion industry by 2025."

Finally, what about China.

[JWags85]

I don't want to get too conspiratorial here, and Occam's Razor says this is probably just a good old fashioned money grab.  But are more of these guys in Mickelson-style financial trouble than we think?  I'm of the position that the Saudis either bought up or threatened to buy up Mickelson's debt, and they basically own him at this point.  I wouldn't be surprised if that all was in the works when Mickelson made his scary MFers comments to try to push back against them and it went... poorly. I've been trying to think up the rationale for him to make those comments since they happened and have otherwise come up empty.

It just seems weird that with all the money out there to be won on the tour, these guys are ready to jump ship like this even if the up front checks are huge. And if LIV is making downstream promises and they don't deliver what are you going to do, sue them?

I doubt most of them are in Phil style financial trouble.  I think the other factor is that the PGA Tour can get grueling.  It is what it is and its a nice life, but if you suddenly can play the same game, for upfront/more money and a lighter schedule, I can see that appeal.

Again, if it wasn't a regime with a huge black shroud over it that was financing it, people wouldn't question/blame the decisions at all.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

“Today, under the dictatorial rule of Xi Jinping – a neo-Maoist thug – the PGA Tour and LPGA Tour include annual treks to Shanghai, China for the WGC-HSBC Champions and Buick LPGA Shanghai,” Pro Golf Weekly’s Jeff Smith recently wrote in an article titled “Where’s the Sportswashing Outrage With Communist China?”

“How evil is the current regime in relation to Mao?” Smith continued, referring to the founding father of the People’s Republic of China. “Last year, the United States officially accused China of committing crimes against humanity, which had engaged in the forced assimilation and eventual erasure of a vulnerable ethnic and religious minority group.”

The PGA deal in China establishes a direct connection between the golf organization and China’s government. Financing came from Yao Capital, a company whose principal is also a member of the Chinese People’s Political Consultative Conference, a political advisory group to the Chinese government, which is in the midst of a five-year plan to develop the country’s sports into a $740 billion industry by 2025."

 

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Well, sure.
But my point is you can't separate LIV from its founders, or the fact that it (and its players) are being used by a tyrannical regime to distract from its tyranny. And that the players are willing participants in said distraction.
I think one reasonably can be a critic of the PGA Tour and some of its practices, and recognize that individual players owe it nothing, while also labeling the LIV defectors for who they are.

And lest we forget, Brooks Koepka, just a few short months ago:

Koepka, speaking Wednesday, less than 24 hours after Mickelson attempted to save himself from his unflattering comments about the PGA Tour, believes somebody will “sell out” and ultimately opt for the Greg Norman-backed, Saudi-financed Super Golf League.
“I think it’s going to still keep going,” Koepka said. “I think there will still be talk. Everyone talks about money. They’ve got enough of it. I don’t see it backing down. They can just double up and they’ll figure it out. They’ll get their guys. Somebody will sell out and go to it.”

https://golfweek.usatoday.com/2022/02/23/brooks-koepka-pga-tour-sell-out-saudi-arabia-golf/

I don't disagree with anything you are saying here.

I was responding mostly to 4ever's comments about the players being "whores." There has been some talk about the players chasing the money as if they owe the PGA something. I don't know if that's what 4ever was getting at, so I was just using an "ethical LIV" as a hypothetical.

[Uncle Rico]

I doubt most of them are in Phil style financial trouble.  I think the other factor is that the PGA Tour can get grueling.  It is what it is and its a nice life, but if you suddenly can play the same game, for upfront/more money and a lighter schedule, I can see that appeal.

Again, if it wasn't a regime with a huge black shroud over it that was financing it, people wouldn't question/blame the decisions at all.

In two years, guys will be required to play 15 events.  These guys also want to play tour events, allegedly.  I don’t buy the schedule BS.