Golf 2022

[MU82]

I don't think it's that simple.  They have listed criteria for qualification.

https://www.usopen.com/qualifying/exemptions.html

https://www.masters.com/en_US/players/invitees_2022.html (toward the bottom)

As far as I can tell, they don't say anything about being a member in good standing of a PGA tour.  Of course these are the 2022 criteria, and I don't know if they have "published" criteria for 2023.  But they can't just say "but not you" to someone who would have otherwise qualified without facing a lawsuit of some sort.

But aren't they their rules? Can't the National Association of Realtors change its rules about who qualifies to be a member at any time? Augusta National certainly has changed rules to fit its agenda.

I don't know the answer to my question, but these are not public entities. If they're not discriminating against any of the groups that are protected by anti-discrimination laws, how would changing their rules be illegal?

[WhiteTrash]

But aren't they their rules? Can't the National Association of Realtors change its rules about who qualifies to be a member at any time? Augusta National certainly has changed rules to fit its agenda.

I don't know the answer to my question, but these are not public entities. If they're not discriminating against any of the groups that are protected by anti-discrimination laws, how would changing their rules be illegal?

I'm not a lawyer (thank God  ) but I don't think you have to fall under the specific groups that are protected. I think those laws just make it easier to prove discrimination.

Either way, it may be more of a anti-competitive / commerce issue. Kind of like when compute& software makers have to make competitive products available on their systems. I think DOJ has forced private companies like MS to allow for Google to work in the Windows space.

Or, I could be 100% wrong.

[The Sultan]

But aren't they their rules? Can't the National Association of Realtors change its rules about who qualifies to be a member at any time? Augusta National certainly has changed rules to fit its agenda.

I don't know the answer to my question, but these are not public entities. If they're not discriminating against any of the groups that are protected by anti-discrimination laws, how would changing their rules be illegal?

So you don't see a problem if organizations publish rules for qualification, which the players meet, but then afterwards change them just because?  That's a lawsuit waiting to happen.  For instance, the Masters has given lifetime exemption to all past champions, but now they are going to lift that exemption for a reason they have never published before?

[Goose]

I am not a big fan of the PGA's new planned 8 event Fall series for the top guys. IMO, it gives credibility to Liv and I think that is a mistake.

[Pakuni]

I'm not a lawyer (thank God  ) but I don't think you have to fall under the specific groups that are protected. I think those laws just make it easier to prove discrimination.

Either way, it may be more of a anti-competitive / commerce issue. Kind of like when compute& software makers have to make competitive products available on their systems. I think DOJ has forced private companies like MS to allow for Google to work in the Windows space.

Or, I could be 100% wrong.

Doesn't the existence of LIV make any anti-competitive argument moot?
It would seem hard to argue that the Masters or some other tournament organzation is preventing you from pursuing your chosen profession when some other organization is paying you $150 million to pursue your chosen profession.

[Pakuni]

So you don't see a problem if organizations publish rules for qualification, which the players meet, but then afterwards change them just because?  That's a lawsuit waiting to happen.  For instance, the Masters has given lifetime exemption to all past champions, but now they are going to lift that exemption for a reason they have never published before?

Not an entirely rhetorical question here, but aren't private organizations allowed to change the way they operate? They can't be perpetually bound by existing rules, right?
I'd be very surprised if the Masters' bylaws don't contain some provision allowing for Augusta National leadership to make changes in tournament operations. And, if so, as long as leadership follows the procedures laid out in the bylaws (i.e. a board vote or something of that nature), I don't think there would be anything prohibiting changes.

[The Sultan]

I think you open yourself up for damages when you say "as a past champion, you qualify for all Masters in your lifetime," but then say "oh but only if you are on the PGA Tour" later on.

Now if the Masters added a rule that said "from now on, all past champions must be on the PGA tour to receive an exemption," that's different.

Does that make sense?

And again, just because they open themselves up to damages, that doesn't mean a court will see it the same way.

[cheebs09]

I kind of feel the Masters will avoid doing that due to how they love having former champions back and playing.

I do see the lack of OWGR points being a way the LIV aren't able to play. Exemptions will run out at some point. Although, a lot can change in a few years and I see LIV is applying for the OWGR points.

I think a lot of these guys like the lifestyle that comes from being a good golfer, but may not be in love with golf. That's what makes LIV attractive that it mixes things up and is a significantly reduced schedule. For other guys, it's the last chance at a big paycheck.

[Uncle Rico]

I think you open yourself up for damages when you say "as a past champion, you qualify for all Masters in your lifetime," but then say "oh but only if you are on the PGA Tour" later on.

Now if the Masters added a rule that said "from now on, all past champions must be on the PGA tour to receive an exemption," that's different.

Does that make sense?

And again, just because they open themselves up to damages, that doesn't mean a court will see it the same way.

That's what the Masters would probably do.  Grandfather clause. 

The USGA and R & A can choose not to invite guys that play primarily on The Saudi Golf Tour but they can allow them to try and qualify

[Uncle Rico]

I am not a big fan of the PGA's new planned 8 event Fall series for the top guys. IMO, it gives credibility to Liv and I think that is a mistake.

They'll smatter the events throughout the season.  I hated the wraparound season and prefer the proposed system of guys playing for their cards in the fall.

[🏀]

LIV has the Champions Tour wrapped up, kill that bloated pig.

PGA Tour will still reign with the majors aligned with them. Masters will do what they do. Players will have to qualify for the US Open. PGA and Players will not be there for them.

OWGR is really what matters here and LIV doesn't have it. They won't get it.

[Goose]

Rico

I like the guys playing for their card as well, I just would not be throwing more money around for the sake of throwing money around. As a fan, if the winner of a tournament got paid $100m it would not make event more exciting unless it was a complete unknown. More money does not mean better product, IMO.

[Uncle Rico]

Rico

I like the guys playing for their card as well, I just would not be throwing more money around for the sake of throwing money around. As a fan, if the winner of a tournament got paid $100m it would not make event more exciting unless it was a complete unknown. More money does not mean better product, IMO.

I don't disagree.  Unfortunately, they don't have much choice. 

[nyg]

Morikawa released statement reference the rumors and is staying on PGA Tour.

[🏀]

Morikawa released statement reference the rumors and is staying on PGA Tour.

Young guys staying on Tour is all that matters. And Tiger.

[Jockey]

For the 1st time in memory, I didn't watch even a minute of a Major. I will no longer watch any tournament that includes the LIv players.

Not that it means anything - big picture. Just for my piece of mind.

[MuggsyB]

For the 1st time in memory, I didn't watch even a minute of a Major. I will no longer watch any tournament that includes the LIv players.

Not that it means anything - big picture. Just for my piece of mind.

Wow....really Jockey?  You missed a heck of a tournament.  I just don't know if there will be a way to avoid some LIV players being in majors.

[MU82]

So you don't see a problem if organizations publish rules for qualification, which the players meet, but then afterwards change them just because?  That's a lawsuit waiting to happen.  For instance, the Masters has given lifetime exemption to all past champions, but now they are going to lift that exemption for a reason they have never published before?

I don't know, Sultan. That's why I asked the questions. Looks like you don't know, either.

[The Sultan]

I don't know, Sultan. That's why I asked the questions. Looks like you don't know, either.

Never claimed I did.

[Herman Cain]

European tour with some smart maneuvering vis-a-vis LIV . Allowing LIV to play on their tour.

https://www.essentiallysports.com/golf-news-breaking-dp-world-tour-takes-massive-decision-on-liv-golf-players/

[Uncle Rico]

European tour with some smart maneuvering vis-a-vis LIV . Allowing LIV to play on their tour.

https://www.essentiallysports.com/golf-news-breaking-dp-world-tour-takes-massive-decision-on-liv-golf-players/

That's one tournament with a field that was set

[nyg]

European tour with some smart maneuvering vis-a-vis LIV . Allowing LIV to play on their tour.

https://www.essentiallysports.com/golf-news-breaking-dp-world-tour-takes-massive-decision-on-liv-golf-players/

They can play in Europe before or after LIV scheduled events, which may limit their participation.  Don't really need the money, but interesting. Do some of the weak players get automatic invites or qualifications required. DP Tour just like PGA requires a card.  Should be a complete cluster screw up going forward with all the tours. 

LIV schedule:

One in Europe
Five in US
One in Thailand
One in Saudi

[Jockey]

Wow....really Jockey?  You missed a heck of a tournament.  I just don't know if there will be a way to avoid some LIV players being in majors.

How good it was is irrelevant.

Those are my principles.  The same money that funded 9/11 is funding these golfers. I want no part of it. You and others are free to believe whatever you want.

[4everwarriors]

Jockster, you sound like a dyed in the wool Republican, hey?

[MuggsyB]

How good it was is irrelevant.

Those are my principles.  The same money that funded 9/11 is funding these golfers. I want no part of it. You and others are free to believe whatever you want.

I get it.  Unfortunately, there are repressive governments involved in a number of sports businesses.  I'm not happy about LIV but enjoy watching the Majors in particular.