The cult of low expectations

[Goose]

nyg

One thing I am confident in is that on 2/8/2022 I will not be saying is this team lacked energy or hard work. It is a tough schedule and we will see how they respond. I think by 2/1 I will not be saying we need to "steal" one or two and expectations will be they can win the game, if the shots are falling.

[tower912]

Anyone have a venn diagram of the the "low expectations"'posters and the "wojo slurpers?"  That would be interesting to see....

It's amazing how strong certain posters were saying this team will only score in the 50's with never so much as seen a single practice or what systems shaka's team would be playing.  I think they would rather see all games played off by Kenpom ratings that actual play of the team and coaching skills.

I said there would be games that MU struggled in the half court and would score in the 50's.    MU has finished in the 50's twice and was in the 50's at the end of regulation against Creighton.    Thank you for pointing out I was right.   

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Anyone have a venn diagram of the the "low expectations"'posters and the "wojo slurpers?"  That would be interesting to see....

It's amazing how strong certain posters were saying this team will only score in the 50's with never so much as seen a single practice or what systems shaka's team would be playing.  I think they would rather see all games played off by Kenpom ratings that actual play of the team and coaching skills.

No one to my knowledge said they would only score in the 50s. Tower and I think one other poster said there would be games we scored in 50s. And they were correct. I also wouldn't assume that people hadn't seen practices at that point or talked to people who were regularly at practice

[MU82]

This is simply wrong. The game was on the line against Illinois when we rallied from 12 down and when TKO made the steal and winning layup. The game was on the line when we rallied again from 12 down against Ole Miss and WVU. The game was on the line when we won at KSU.

The game was also on the line when we rallied back from double-digit deficits against Xavier and UConn to get within a single point in both games with possession but failed to take the lead.

At a bare minimum, Creighton was Shaka's 7th "test" with the game on the line, and that's if you don't count needing to overcome a deficit against New Hampshire with under 5 minutes to play, so I'd say 8th test is probably more accurate. This point is pretty indefensible, it's okay to walk it back.

Of course. This. This Scooper finds a narrative and then beats it to a bloody death ... until he brings it back to life. Lather, rinse, repeat.

[shoothoops]

One of my annual expectations for MUBB is to make the NCAA Tourney. This is regardless of coach, personnel, circumstances. That is an expectation, a standard, that is a constant, annually.

That doesn't mean any and every MUBB HC coach won't get a fair and reasonable opportunity to do that, and build or maintain an annual NCAA tourney team. It also doesn't mean that I lower the expectation either. That doesn't mean even the best programs don't miss the tourney once in a while.

It isn't an unreasonable annual expectation.

[MUCam]

Out of curiosity, is there an associated cult of high expectations?

In that cult, do the "bad losses" absolve good wins?

Is the cult of high expectations free from the shackles of having to "update expectations based on results" as referenced in the original post? If it is not free, what were the expectations of the cult of high expectations after four straight losses?

It's all so confusing to me! I wish I knew which cult to belong to. I'm lost.

[JakeBarnes]

Agree, will be interesting to visit on 2/8/2022 after MU has played seven straight games against:

Seton Hall
Villanova
Xavier
Seton Hall
Providence
Villanova
U Conn

Thats a gauntlet of a stretch.

3-4 is GREAT in that stretch. 4-3 is "we're 98% dancing" with the assumption (yes, I know, big if on the upcoming two) that puts us at 7-6 with 7 (6?) games to go (2x STJ (?), 2x Butler, DePaul, Creighton, Georgetown).

But honestly ok with 2-5 as well. That's 2 quality wins right there for the resume, but means there's some meat on that bone still to get (and hopefully, baby, ath end you got a stew cookin).

[JakeBarnes]

Out of curiosity, is there an associated cult of high expectations?

In that cult, do the "bad losses" absolve good wins?

Is the cult of high expectations free from the shackles of having to "update expectations based on results" as referenced in the original post? If it is not free, what were the expectations of the cult of high expectations after four straight losses?

It's all so confusing to me! I wish I knew which cult to belong to. I'm lost.

Sounds like you're finally ready for a cult!

[brewcity77]

Out of curiosity, is there an associated cult of high expectations?

My expectation is another National Championship in my lifetime, because I was only 35 days old the last time we won the NC so my memory of it is a bit foggy. That probably gives about a 35-50 year window to accomplish it, and since Villanova did it twice in the past few years and we've done it before, I think it's a fair expectation.

I expect a number of steps forward and steps back along the way, so I try not to get too worked up over individual seasons or results.

[Goose]

brew

I fully expect that MU will have a chance to win a NC under Shaka. It might never happen, but I believe he will have us in the conversation of teams that can win it all before he retires.

[MU82]

Speaking of coaching decisions, I fully expect to see less and less of GE as the season progresses. Last night was the perfect PT for GE, IMO.

Goose, I generally have liked how Shaka has handled PT for Elliott (and, really, for all the players).

There will be games when nobody is hitting shots and we desperately need Greg on the floor. He singlehandedly made it a kinda-game against UCLA, he kept us in the Xavier game, and he was instrumental in the KSU win.

But if he's not hitting -- and perhaps even more importantly, if others are -- Shaka won't need to play him as much.

Greg actually played a great 11 minutes last night. He missed his only 2 shots but he made 4 outstanding passes that led directly to 9 points. And, as usual, he helped space the floor because the other team leaves him open at its peril.

We have had exactly 4 games in which we've made at least 35% from 3. We won all 4, including 3 of our 4 biggest victories (Miss, WV, Prov).

Next game, Shaka could need Elliott to play 25 minutes ... or only 5 ... or anything in between. It's a nice security blanket for the coach knowing he has a 45% 3-point shooter on the bench if he needs one.

[Goose]

82

One thing I think we differ on; GE is not a three-point shooter. Kam Jones is a three-point shooter. Just because GE is the best of a bad bunch does not make him into Steph Curry. Hey, I would play a walk on if it gave us a better chance to win and not bashing GE. I just think there are better options more times than not. I am hoping that guys with more upside earn his minutes, simple as that.

[PGsHeroes32]

82

One thing I think we differ on; GE is not a three-point shooter. Kam Jones is a three-point shooter. Just because GE is the best of a bad bunch does not make him into Steph Curry. Hey, I would play a walk on if it gave us a better chance to win and not bashing GE. I just think there are better options more times than not. I am hoping that guys with more upside earn his minutes, simple as that.

No, Greg is definitely a 3 Pt shooter

[tower912]

Greg is absolutely a 3 pt shooter.   

[Goose]

tower

We have different definitions of three point shooters. Kam Jones is the only true three point guy on the team, IMO. Very seldom will you ever see a "real" three point guy miss badly, GE misses badly on a fairly regular basis.

[tower912]

Clearly.   

[MU82]

GE is not a three-point shooter.

You know I respect your basketball knowledge ... but that's just silly.

[StillAWarrior]

tower

We have different definitions of three point shooters. Kam Jones is the only true three point guy on the team, IMO. Very seldom will you ever see a "real" three point guy miss badly, GE misses badly on a fairly regular basis.

Since you're just making up definitions, why don't you just go ahead and define "three point shooter" as "not GE". Then nobody can dispute your claim that GE is not a three point shooter.

[JakeBarnes]

Greg is absolutely a 3 pt shooter.

He's also just a really great guy. Let's not limit him to one trait--I am sure he has other hobbies and interests too.

[Goose]

tower

Do you think other teams draft a defense to stop GE from taking 3's? Stevek Novak, Markus Howard, Rosey...they are three-point shooters. I love Matt Carlino and do not think he was a three-point shooter, he was a shooter. Again, this goes back to expectations, I sure hope GE is not our sharp shooter next season.

[brewcity77]

brew

I fully expect that MU will have a chance to win a NC under Shaka. It might never happen, but I believe he will have us in the conversation of teams that can win it all before he retires.

Honestly, that's why I was so excited for them to hire him. I look at Shaka, virtually the same age (44) as I am, coming off a 3-seed, and simply can't envision him not reaching another Final Four or more. I think his personality, his past success, and his proof of willingness to learn and adapt to the changes in the game have shown him to be a guy who will have long term success, and I'm excited to see him try to get that success here.

[The Sultan]

I clearly think Kam has more upside than Greg, but GE is 14/31 from 3.   I struggle labelling Kam as a three point shooter, but not Greg, when he is shooting significantly worse.

[Goose]

Fluff

Kam is born three-point shooter. That spin move was big time and the shot was pure money. Greg has to be wide open and set to be effective. Great shooters do not need space and can pull the trigger in a split second. Plus, great three-point guys have crazy range. I would not be pulling for Greg to be taking shots five feet behind the line. The game has changed and every on here should know firsthand due to Howard and Rowsey. Those guys were experts, GE is better than his teammates, nothing more.

[tower912]

Goose    Greg shooting percentages from 3.   36.7, 41.3, 45.2, 45.2
Kam 37.3.   

You are twisting definitions to make a point.    Now, only someone like Curry or Markus or Rowsey, who can shoot 3's from the logo off of the dribble and defended is a 3 pt shooter?     Silly.    And only to justify a different point.   

[Goose]

tower

Justify a point? I think GE is the second best of a bad bunch of shooters, which is fine. IMO, we will see far better shooters down the road in this offense.