The cult of low expectations

[1SE]

First off, superb win. Guys were ready to play and a curb stomping after a 'bad' loss speaks volumes to Shaka. Passing the test is absolutely right - first time in Shaka era his team has had their back a bit against the wall and they responded.  Kudos.

That, said - this win in no way absolves the 'bad' loss. I keep using quotes because of course a Q2 loss in 2OT isn't objectively bad, but given what this team CAN do I think that game could very well determine our NCAA fate. This team has/had the ability to go .500 in BE play

. And Shaka did fail in his first real test of in game coaching - the end of Reg shot, the empty late possessions in OT, the no foul up 3, and the lack of imagination and failure to use his TO in the 2nd OT. A string of really terrible decisions that cost us a game we could and should have won.

But the bigger thing that drives me nuts with this board is the rush to embrace mediocrity and not update expectations based on results. Yes, at the start of the season we all thought the NCAA would be a stretch. But after the 5-0 start, winning some games we WEREN'T expected to win, you have to update your expectations! If a team is expected to go 9-9 but wins its first 9 games you don't then expect to lose the next 9 - you update. Each game is (mostly) an independent event - winning a bunch of games early in the season should have very little impact on the outcomes of games later in the season. This whole acceptance of "well, we won a bunch of games we shouldn't have so now I guess I'm fine with losing a bunch of games I didn't think we'd lose" is maddening. It's like saying 'well, I'm a C student and I unexpectedly got a A on my first test so now I guess I expect a F on my 2nd so I get a C overall " No! Now I expect a C on my 2nd, so I'll get a B overall.

At the start of the year I did not expect we would make the NCAA. But a team that can beat ILL and WV, curb stomp Prov, claw back against X and UCONN has the ability to be a NCAA team. It should be a NCAA team.

There is a cult of low expectations amongst a subset of this place.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I wouldn't assume that people's expectations don't shift. Personally, I did adjust my expectations after the West Virginia game...a little. Because it was one game. The other 4? We barely beat two low majors, beat Illinois without Cockburn, and beat a bad Ole Miss team. It was definitely a better start than I expected and it gave me hope for a possible NIT berth but it wasn't exactly a murderer's row. Then the Bonnies and Badgers adjusted my expectation back down to about where they were and they have held par until tonight. This game marked a new ceiling for this team and it is WAY higher than anything we have seen before. That bodes very well and I hope we can build on it.

[MU82]

And Shaka did fail in his first real test of in game coaching

This is wrong. Again. It wasn't his first real test, no matter how many times you claim it is.

[1SE]

This is wrong. Again. It wasn't his first real test, no matter how many times you claim it is.

It was the first test of his in game coaching  where the game was on the line. He played chess with McDermot and lost. Hopefully it won't be a frequent occurance. It's OK to admit that a guy we all really like.and hope brings MU long term success got one wrong. It's healthy in fact.

[fjm]

It was the first test of his in game coaching  where the game was on the line. He played chess with McDermot and lost. Hopefully it won't be a frequent occurance. It's OK to admit that a guy we all really like.and hope brings MU long term success got one wrong. It's healthy in fact.

So we are just gonna ignore the end of the Illinois game?

[willie warrior]

Yes there are a gaggle on this board that have low expectations and settle for mediocrity, brought along by the constant excuse making and acceptance of Wojo-Dukiet performance.
Hopefully Shaka can continue to upgrade talent and team success

This was a good win for Shaka and the program.

[tower912]

Every year, I look at the roster, take 'Marquette' out of the equation, and try to figure out what I would expect from that team if I didn't root for them.    I have been consistently within 2 wins in the regular season.      I would love to miss low this year.    It would mean the development of the young guys was faster than I expected.     And I would enjoy that very much.   

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Maybe I am allowed to just enjoy the ride wherever it takes me?  If that means I have low expectations in people’s eyes, so be it. 

[Tums Festival]

First off, superb win. Guys were ready to play and a curb stomping after a 'bad' loss speaks volumes to Shaka. Passing the test is absolutely right - first time in Shaka era his team has had their back a bit against the wall and they responded.  Kudos.

That, said - this win in no way absolves the 'bad' loss. I keep using quotes because of course a Q2 loss in 2OT isn't objectively bad, but given what this team CAN do I think that game could very well determine our NCAA fate. This team has/had the ability to go .500 in BE play

. And Shaka did fail in his first real test of in game coaching - the end of Reg shot, the empty late possessions in OT, the no foul up 3, and the lack of imagination and failure to use his TO in the 2nd OT. A string of really terrible decisions that cost us a game we could and should have won.

But the bigger thing that drives me nuts with this board is the rush to embrace mediocrity and not update expectations based on results. Yes, at the start of the season we all thought the NCAA would be a stretch. But after the 5-0 start, winning some games we WEREN'T expected to win, you have to update your expectations! If a team is expected to go 9-9 but wins its first 9 games you don't then expect to lose the next 9 - you update. Each game is (mostly) an independent event - winning a bunch of games early in the season should have very little impact on the outcomes of games later in the season. This whole acceptance of "well, we won a bunch of games we shouldn't have so now I guess I'm fine with losing a bunch of games I didn't think we'd lose" is maddening. It's like saying 'well, I'm a C student and I unexpectedly got a A on my first test so now I guess I expect a F on my 2nd so I get a C overall " No! Now I expect a C on my 2nd, so I'll get a B overall.

At the start of the year I did not expect we would make the NCAA. But a team that can beat ILL and WV, curb stomp Prov, claw back against X and UCONN has the ability to be a NCAA team. It should be a NCAA team.

There is a cult of low expectations amongst a subset of this place.

Why are you so concerned about how other people feel about the team?

[pbiflyer]

Maybe I am allowed to just enjoy the ride wherever it takes me?  If that means I have low expectations in people’s eyes, so be it.

This.

[NCMUFan]

We all hope Marquette makes the NCAA Tourney.  They have 1 win in the Big East.  It will take a bunch more to make it.
One game at a time.  I am looking forward to Friday to see what happens.
Hopefully instead of hills and valleys we will be on a mesa.

[BallBoy]

First off, superb win. Guys were ready to play and a curb stomping after a 'bad' loss speaks volumes to Shaka. Passing the test is absolutely right - first time in Shaka era his team has had their back a bit against the wall and they responded.  Kudos.

That, said - this win in no way absolves the 'bad' loss. I keep using quotes because of course a Q2 loss in 2OT isn't objectively bad, but given what this team CAN do I think that game could very well determine our NCAA fate. This team has/had the ability to go .500 in BE play

. And Shaka did fail in his first real test of in game coaching - the end of Reg shot, the empty late possessions in OT, the no foul up 3, and the lack of imagination and failure to use his TO in the 2nd OT. A string of really terrible decisions that cost us a game we could and should have won.

But the bigger thing that drives me nuts with this board is the rush to embrace mediocrity and not update expectations based on results. Yes, at the start of the season we all thought the NCAA would be a stretch. But after the 5-0 start, winning some games we WEREN'T expected to win, you have to update your expectations! If a team is expected to go 9-9 but wins its first 9 games you don't then expect to lose the next 9 - you update. Each game is (mostly) an independent event - winning a bunch of games early in the season should have very little impact on the outcomes of games later in the season. This whole acceptance of "well, we won a bunch of games we shouldn't have so now I guess I'm fine with losing a bunch of games I didn't think we'd lose" is maddening. It's like saying 'well, I'm a C student and I unexpectedly got a A on my first test so now I guess I expect a F on my 2nd so I get a C overall " No! Now I expect a C on my 2nd, so I'll get a B overall.

At the start of the year I did not expect we would make the NCAA. But a team that can beat ILL and WV, curb stomp Prov, claw back against X and UCONN has the ability to be a NCAA team. It should be a NCAA team.

There is a cult of low expectations amongst a subset of this place.

You seem to forget that you need to change expectations of who MU has played/will play based on how they have been playing. Based on the non- Conf my expectations of MU went up but so did every one of the BE teams.

I was expecting IL to be much better and UW to be much worse. Those two teams basically switched places. So saying MU should be a NCAA tourney team based on beating IL holds less water than before we played them.  They don’t look to be Top 10 or even Top 25.

I expected MU to bet Ole Miss but expected to lose to WV and then follow it up with a win in the third place game.
After watching non-Conf, I expected MU to land right around 500 in Conf. Why? Because Nova, Xavier, UConn and the rest of the Big East looked to be much better than expected at the start of the season. So even though MU looked better the rest of the Big East also did.  I thought MU would split with Providence but I thought Providence had a good shot of beating MU twice.  I expected MU to beat Creighton at home but lose in Omaha because it is a tough place to play. 

Right now, MU is one game behind my expectations.  I expected MU to split with St John’s but based on their long delay I expect MU to win both. I expect MU to beat Butler twice.  I expect to beat DePaul twice. I expect to beat Georgetown twice. But I also expect that we will lose one of those we shouldn’t.

My in-season expectations are developed based on the team we have. That’s not low expectations. That is expectations based on reality. I am not settling for low expectations, my expectation is that year over year MU gets better with the occasional retooling year.  We should expect that MU is in the Top 5 of the Big East and if we aren’t we need to course correct. I expect ever year that we should be a tourney team with the occasional retool.  We see the foundation of a great Big East team. My expectations of next year will be based on this year and what happens in the off-season. 

I want my expectations to align to reality. I want my ability to evaluate a team to be fairly accurate and not based on them being my home team.

[Viper]

It was the first test of his in game coaching  where the game was on the line. He played chess with McDermot and lost. Hopefully it won't be a frequent occurance. It's OK to admit that a guy we all really like.and hope brings MU long term success got one wrong. It's healthy in fact.

you do realize Shaka was HC at Texas, and VCU prior? Creighton was not his first real test.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

you do realize Shaka was HC at Texas, and VCU prior? Creighton was not his first real test.

Not to mention that we've already won two 1-possession games this season and won a 2-possession game. I think Shaka probably made some coaching decisions near the end of those games that probably could be considered "tests". That trap to get the game winner against Illinois comes to mind.

[tower912]

If the ball doesn't brush Kolek on his way to the floor, everybody is applauding Shaka for having his team play tough defense up 3.

[Goose]

The Shaka failing his first test was a foolish thread. He has been a HC for 12 years and has earned his stripes. Yes, he cost the game on Saturday and that is on him, and such is life. I will say we are 9-6 because of Shaka and I expect he will win more games than he loses based off of coaching decisions. Speaking of coaching decisions, I fully expect to see less and less of GE as the season progresses. Last night was the perfect PT for GE, IMO.

[dgies9156]

I'm quite the opposite. My expectations are through the roof and anyone who watches a game with me knows what happens when we fail to meet those expectations.

Look gang, I'm old enough to remember when we had a program that was a blue blood. The feeling of that March night in 1977 was something that will never leave me. It was far more gratifying than the feeling from either my Cardinals winning the World Series or the Packers becoming Super Bowl Champs. "We" won that night -- those of us who supported the program with our attendance, our support for the university and our commitment to Marquette in general. The Cardinals or the Packers could have won without "me" and "us." Not sure any college program can win without rabid support.

I want us at the top again and think we have the right coach. Games like Providence last night reinforce that view. In the beginning of the season, I was extremely optimistic but also knew we were going to have to steal a few to get in the NCAAs. We did at Illinois, West Virginia and Kansas State. We should have with Creighton and UConn. We let those games slip through our fingers. UConn was what happens when you are young and inexperienced. Creighton was what happens when the team has a collective brain cramp!

[Scoop Snoop]

The Shaka failing his first test was a foolish thread. He has been a HC for 12 years and has earned his stripes. Yes, he cost the game on Saturday and that is on him, and such is life. I will say we are 9-6 because of Shaka and I expect he will win more games than he loses based off of coaching decisions. Speaking of coaching decisions, I fully expect to see less and less of GE as the season progresses. Last night was the perfect PT for GE, IMO.

I really like Greg both as a player and the personality that shines when he is on camera, but he simply does not have the speed he needs to get open when the rest of the team is playing at high speed. I was hoping that he would get a couple of threes and a basket or two. There may be some matchups that will be ideal for him as a role player, but I agree that his PT will likely decrease.

[cheebs09]

I’m programmed for lower expectations based on the last 8 years. I think the blog article showing Wojo’s shortcomings that we didn’t really exceed pre-season expectations. I’m still viewing this team as the one projected for 9th in the Big East. Although, I think they are showing to be better than that.

I am hoping that changes and am very excited about Shaka. Also, I’ve been very encouraged by how we look this year. I think we will be back to a point of having high expectations and even hoping we exceed them soon.

[Pakuni]

If the ball doesn't brush Kolek on his way to the floor, everybody is applauding Shaka for having his team play tough defense up 3.

But the ball did brush Kolek and Shaka failed to adjust to the situation.
It's OK to say he made a mistake. Doesn't mean he's a bad coach or not the right guy. It just means he made a mistake.

[RushmoreAcademy]

It doesn't make up for the bad losses, but we need to evaluate one game at a time this early in this group's tenure.  Looking for progress and growth.

[brewcity77]

It was the first test of his in game coaching  where the game was on the line. He played chess with McDermot and lost. Hopefully it won't be a frequent occurance. It's OK to admit that a guy we all really like.and hope brings MU long term success got one wrong. It's healthy in fact.

This is simply wrong. The game was on the line against Illinois when we rallied from 12 down and when TKO made the steal and winning layup. The game was on the line when we rallied again from 12 down against Ole Miss and WVU. The game was on the line when we won at KSU.

The game was also on the line when we rallied back from double-digit deficits against Xavier and UConn to get within a single point in both games with possession but failed to take the lead.

At a bare minimum, Creighton was Shaka's 7th "test" with the game on the line, and that's if you don't count needing to overcome a deficit against New Hampshire with under 5 minutes to play, so I'd say 8th test is probably more accurate. This point is pretty indefensible, it's okay to walk it back.

[PointWarrior]

Anyone have a venn diagram of the the “low expectations”’posters and the “wojo slurpers?”  That would be interesting to see….

It’s amazing how strong certain posters were saying this team will only score in the 50’s with never so much as seen a single practice or what systems shaka’s team would be playing.  I think they would rather see all games played off by Kenpom ratings that actual play of the team and coaching skills.

[Goose]

Point


I say it every year, the eye test does matter. There are folks on here that simply do not understand that expectations should always ne high and extremely high under a coach like Shaka. I said earlier this week, I fully expect Buzz like success and then some down the road. Watching the style they play it is going to be easy to get players. The guys saw how executing the style looks like last night and they were having a ball. Aside from Lewis taking it himself a couple of times later in the game, they were feeding off each other in the passing game. Easy baskets will become the norm at MU.

[nyg]

It doesn't make up for the bad losses, but we need to evaluate one game at a time this early in this group's tenure.  Looking for progress and growth.

Agree, will be interesting to visit on 2/8/2022 after MU has played seven straight games against:

Seton Hall
Villanova
Xavier
Seton Hall
Providence
Villanova
U Conn

Thats a gauntlet of a stretch.