2022 MLB Thread

[panda]

So a more liberalized strike zone back then accounted for less strikeouts and lower batting averages?

The strike zone is now uniform and graded daily which makes it much more consistent than it's ever been. That's a fact.

You can make assumptions beyond that fact, but they're just that, assumptions.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I'll concede the mound but home plate has never changed in size so how could the strike zone be bigger. Don't tell me the umps had a bigger strike zone either. In 1968 there were about 9600 strikeouts and in 2019 there were about 21000 strikeouts in the AL. Even taking that the league is 50% bigger the number of strikeouts in 1968 would be about 14-15k.

The strike zone went from the shoulders to the bottom of the knees, to the armpits to the top of the knees.

And there are more strike outs now, in part, because of offensive philosophy putting a premium on the home run so players are swinging hard constantly.

[muwarrior69]

The strike zone is now uniform and graded daily which makes it much more consistent than it's ever been. That's a fact.

You can make assumptions beyond that fact, but they're just that, assumptions.

Some here are making the assumption that pitchers throw harder today than they did years ago. I don't see any facts to support that either way. Yeah, the game evolves but from my perspective not for the better. I saw 3 perfect games pitched in person; the most memorable when I was 9 and saw Don Larsen pitch his perfect game in the World Series in 1956. The other two were against the Mets when they were pretty bad, but we all knew we were witnessing something special. As a die hard Yankee fan I had have more than my share of winning. To watch the 63 Dodger pitching just destroy the Yanks that year was marvel to behold or the '69 Mets break the hearts of every Cub fan and then beat the Orioles in 5 who had the best pitching in either league that year was just amazing. To day its pitch counts, which batter has better stats against that reliever or starter. I believe the Yanks had 9 pitchers pitch in one playoff game a few seasons back and what was worse the guys that got them into playoffs were replaced by their high priced prima donnas that barely played half the season.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Some here are making the assumption that pitchers throw harder today than they did years ago. I don't see any facts to support that either way. Yeah, the game evolves but from my perspective not for the better. I saw 3 perfect games pitched in person; the most memorable when I was 9 and saw Don Larsen pitch his perfect game in the World Series in 1956. The other two were against the Mets when they were pretty bad, but we all knew we were witnessing something special. As a die hard Yankee fan I had have more than my share of winning. To watch the 63 Dodger pitching just destroy the Yanks that year was marvel to behold or the '69 Mets break the hearts of every Cub fan and then beat the Orioles in 5 who had the best pitching in either league that year was just amazing. To day its pitch counts, which batter has better stats against that reliever or starter. I believe the Yanks had 9 pitchers pitch in one playoff game a few seasons back and what was worse the guys that got them into playoffs were replaced by their high priced prima donnas that barely played half the season.

I guess the modern game isn't for you then.

[jficke13]

I don't think they had speed guns back in the 30s, 40s, or 50s to compare how hard a pitcher is pitching. So there is no way to know. Carl Yastrzemski batted just 301 in 1968 to win the AL batting title. The pitchers back then must have pitched pretty hard to keep an entire league batting under 300 for a season, or every batter just had trouble with the curve?

...and Yaz played at Fenway a hitters park.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1968_Major_League_Baseball_season

"The Year of the Pitcher"

I'm not sure that saying "hey the game that was fundamentally different in 1968 must be directly compared to the modern game to support the conclusion I want drawn" is really a strong position.

Is there really a debate here that the athletes of 2022 aren't better/faster/stronger than the athletes of 1968? This is the angle you're going for? If the statistical production of hitters in 1968 was low, and the statistical production of hitters in 2021 was low, therefore pitchers were subjecting their bodies to the same strains in 1968 as they did in 2021?

Look, I get the load management, pitch count, innings limited, restrict times through the batting order is frustrating at times. But there's a reason it's done, and it isn't because every manager and organization in baseball is in cahoots to make the game softer or because every pitcher in baseball got weak.

[panda]

Some here are making the assumption that pitchers throw harder today than they did years ago. I don't see any facts to support that either way. Yeah, the game evolves but from my perspective not for the better. I saw 3 perfect games pitched in person; the most memorable when I was 9 and saw Don Larsen pitch his perfect game in the World Series in 1956. The other two were against the Mets when they were pretty bad, but we all knew we were witnessing something special. As a die hard Yankee fan I had have more than my share of winning. To watch the 63 Dodger pitching just destroy the Yanks that year was marvel to behold or the '69 Mets break the hearts of every Cub fan and then beat the Orioles in 5 who had the best pitching in either league that year was just amazing. To day its pitch counts, which batter has better stats against that reliever or starter. I believe the Yanks had 9 pitchers pitch in one playoff game a few seasons back and what was worse the guys that got them into playoffs were replaced by their high priced prima donnas that barely played half the season.

I’m in my mid 30’s and I remember when a guy hitting 100 was a big deal. Now every team has a few guys who can bring it up there.

Guys are throwing harder now than ever. Unless we go off fans’ old fishing stories about baseball in the 50’s and 60’s.

[CTWarrior]

I'll concede the mound but home plate has never changed in size so how could the strike zone be bigger. Don't tell me the umps had a bigger strike zone either. In 1968 there were about 9600 strikeouts and in 2019 there were about 21000 strikeouts in the AL. Even taking that the league is 50% bigger the number of strikeouts in 1968 would be about 14-15k.

Strike zone was shoulders to knees in 1968 (probably called more like letters to knees.  It is basically waist to knees now.  Much bigger in 1968.  Today's hitting philosophy (uppercut max power) could not be successful in 1968 with the strike zone going that high, so you didn't have 8 guys swinging for the fences like you do today.  With the exception of Nolan Ryan, who is an absolute freak of nature, guys back then were not max effort every pitch guys.  For the most part, you didn't have to worry too much about the opposition's catchers or middle infielders doing much damage, not to mention the pitchers.

As for Kershaw, Joe Posnanski put it best:

•   Clayton Kershaw is 34 years old and has not made 30 starts in a season since 2015, which was “Cam Newton was the NFL MVP” years ago.
•   Kershaw finished last season with his elbow barely intact. It was so bad that after the season ended, he did not pick up a baseball for three months. Rumors circulated that he might retire and I suspect he seriously considered it.
•   He only began throwing again in January and did not feel confident that he could actually stay healthy enough to pitch until March.
•   In a shortened spring training, he threw a grand total of 101 pitches. The most pitches he threw on any given day was 75, and that was in a simulated game, not exactly the same thing.
•   Do you know when was the last time Clayton Kershaw threw a complete game? Go ahead, take a stab at it. It was July 9, 2017, against Kansas City. That’s almost five years, if you’re scoring at home.
•   Oh yeah, it was like 30 degrees with a howling wind at Target Field

No, there was no possibility of Kershaw pitching nine innings, no matter how efficient he was, no matter how dominant he was, no matter what. That’s not analytics. That’s just plain common sense. Sure, I wish it was 1973 again. Sure I wish that starting pitchers still went the distance. Sure, I wish Clayton Kershaw was 21 again and spry enough to pitch all night.

[Jockey]

Some here are making the assumption that pitchers throw harder today than they did years ago. I don't see any facts to support that either way. Yeah, the game evolves but from my perspective not for the better. I saw 3 perfect games pitched in person; the most memorable when I was 9 and saw Don Larsen pitch his perfect game in the World Series in 1956. The other two were against the Mets when they were pretty bad, but we all knew we were witnessing something special. As a die hard Yankee fan I had have more than my share of winning. To watch the 63 Dodger pitching just destroy the Yanks that year was marvel to behold or the '69 Mets break the hearts of every Cub fan and then beat the Orioles in 5 who had the best pitching in either league that year was just amazing. To day its pitch counts, which batter has better stats against that reliever or starter. I believe the Yanks had 9 pitchers pitch in one playoff game a few seasons back and what was worse the guys that got them into playoffs were replaced by their high priced prima donnas that barely played half the season.

Mindful ignorance. EVERY expert will tell you that pitchers throw harder today. It's not even up for argument.

Even with a higher mound (which increased speed), it was no contest.

[Uncle Rico]

Despite Donald Trump loving Adam Wainwright starting and super cheaters Albert Pujols and Yadier “Stick ‘em Molina in the lineup, the Brewers won their home opener tonight. 

[PGsHeroes32]

Game 7 and Buxton hurt.

"Felt a pop"

Not good.

[BrewCity83]

AL MVP race between Vlad, Robert, Buxton is going to be fun.

It's hilarious to me to be considering MVP candidates in April.  Let's play some games and then see who is having a great season, and then the discussion can begin.

[Jockey]

Well, Buxton lasted 6 games. I think that may be longer than usual.

[DegenerateDish]

It's hilarious to me to be considering MVP candidates in April.  Let's play some games and then see who is having a great season, and then the discussion can begin.

I’ll double down here.

Dylan Cease (barring injury) is going to be your AL Cy Young winner.

[MU82]

Joe Maddon is still taking cracks at reinventing baseball.

Last night, he intentionally walked Corey Seager with the bases loaded and one out in the fourth inning to bring home a run after the Rangers were already ahead. Texas went on to score 2 more runs for a 6-2 lead before the Angels got out of the inning.

The Angels rallied to win 9-6, obviously inspired by Maddon's brilliant managerial ploy.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Joe Maddon is still taking cracks at reinventing baseball.

Last night, he intentionally walked Corey Seager with the bases loaded and one out in the fourth inning to bring home a run after the Rangers were already ahead. Texas went on to score 2 more runs for a 6-2 lead before the Angels got out of the inning.

The Angels rallied to win 9-6, obviously inspired by Maddon's brilliant managerial ploy.

Saw on the twitter that it was only the third time since 1950 that an intentional walk has been issued with the bases loaded. Maddon is responsible for two of them.

[4everwarriors]

Stupid chit, hey?

[PGsHeroes32]

I’ll double down here.

Dylan Cease (barring injury) is going to be your AL Cy Young winner.

Nope

[MU82]

Saw on the twitter that it was only the third time since 1950 that an intentional walk has been issued with the bases loaded. Maddon is responsible for two of them.

Surprised it was only 3 cuz it seemed like Bonds was walked with bases loaded a few times - but I absolutely could be misremembering that.

As for this IBB … the confused look on Trout’s face was precious.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

As a Cubs fan I'll always have a soft spot for Maddon.  But the thing about him that bothered me was his complete inability and unwillingness to admit when he made a poor decision. 

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

As a Cubs fan I'll always have a soft spot for Maddon.  But the thing about him that bothered me was his complete inability and unwillingness to admit when he made a poor decision. 

Yeah the whole “it worked cause it rallied the troops” type commentary is eye-rolling.

[Lennys Tap]

Well, Buxton lasted 6 games. I think that may be longer than usual.

He’s only supposed to miss a week - with this injury anyway.

[Ardmore Mug]

Saw on the twitter that it was only the First  time since 1888 that an intentional walk has been issued with the bases loaded, and the team was losing at the time.

FIFY!!! 

[Jockey]

Brewers are utterly boring to watch on offense. - batting .215 as a team.

And, there are SEVEN teams that are worse!

Baltimore is the only team with fewer HRs.

Only the D'Backs, Royals, and Orioles have scored fewer runs.

[CreightonWarrior]

Brewers are utterly boring to watch on offense. - batting .215 as a team.

And, there are SEVEN teams that are worse!

Baltimore is the only team with fewer HRs.

Only the D'Backs, Royals, and Orioles have scored fewer runs.

I lol’d when I saw the brewers home run leader board. 4 guys at 1 HR. Only watched a couple game and they aren’t fun.

[JWags85]

Yeah the whole “it worked cause it rallied the troops” type commentary is eye-rolling.

I feel the same as VBG, but his last few years it was sooo grating.  His quirky clubhouse stuff was no longer needed, it wasn't a new young roster that needed to stay loose.  But he still made myriad blunders and seemed to be even more stubborn.