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Author Topic: 2022 MLB Thread  (Read 63365 times)

tower912

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Re: 2022 MLB Thread
« Reply #1850 on: November 23, 2022, 07:02:19 PM »
Harper out until the All Star Game
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

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JWags85

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Re: 2022 MLB Thread
« Reply #1851 on: November 23, 2022, 07:23:03 PM »
Harper out until the All Star Game

Which makes his playoff performance even more impressive.

Second to only Lebron in terms of living up to INSANE hype and expectations from an early age.  Even more impressive for Harper, imo, considering how many great prospects have failed to deliver before even getting to the MLB in the minors.

tower912

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Re: 2022 MLB Thread
« Reply #1852 on: November 23, 2022, 07:24:19 PM »
I remember wondering in passing why he was DH-ing in the WS.    Now we know.   
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

MU82

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Re: 2022 MLB Thread
« Reply #1853 on: November 28, 2022, 12:34:50 PM »
It's gonna be real interesting to see if any of the juicers get in when the Baseball Hall of Fame's new Contemporary Baseball Era Players Committee meets in about a week to consider the likes of Clemens and Bonds.

Press release from the HoF:

(COOPERSTOWN, NY) – Eight players whose primary contributions to the game came within the last 40-plus years will be considered for Hall of Fame election at Baseball’s Winter Meetings.
 
The Contemporary Baseball Era Players Committee will meet for the first time on Sunday, Dec. 4, in San Diego. Eight former big leaguers comprise the Contemporary Baseball Era Committee player ballot, which features candidates whose primary contribution to the game came from 1980 to the present.
 
The 16-member Contemporary Baseball Era Players Committee will consider only candidates on the ballot, and any candidate receiving votes on at least 75 percent of all ballots cast will earn induction into the Hall of Fame as part of the Class of 2023.
 
Results of the voting will be announced live on MLB Network on Sunday, Dec. 4 during MLB Tonight at 8 p.m. ET. Any electees are expected to be available to media shortly after the announcement via individual Zoom calls.
 
Albert Belle, Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Don Mattingly, Fred McGriff, Dale Murphy, Rafael Palmeiro and Curt Schilling were named on Nov. 7 as the candidates for Contemporary Baseball Era Players Committee consideration. All candidates are living.
 
Any candidates elected will be inducted in Cooperstown on July 23, 2023, along with any electees who emerge from the 2023 Baseball Writers’ Association of America election, which will be announced on Jan. 24, 2023, exclusively on MLB Network.
 
The 16-member Hall of Fame Board-appointed electorate charged with the review of the Contemporary Baseball Era player ballot features Hall of Fame members Chipper Jones, Greg Maddux, Jack Morris, Ryne Sandberg, Lee Smith, Frank Thomas and Alan Trammell; major league executives Paul Beeston, Theo Epstein, Arte Moreno, Kim Ng, Dave St. Peter and Ken Williams; and veteran media members/historians Steve Hirdt, LaVelle Neal and Susan Slusser.
   
Hall of Fame Chairman of the Board Jane Forbes Clark will serve as the non-voting Chairman of the Contemporary Baseball Era Players Committee.
 
The eight Contemporary Baseball Era Players Committee finalists were selected by the Baseball Writers’ Association of America-appointed Historical Overview Committee from all eligible candidates whose most significant career impact was realized from 1980 to the present. Eligible candidates include players who played in at least 10 major league seasons, who have been retired for at least 15 seasons and who are not on Major League Baseball’s ineligible list.
 
The Historical Overview Committee, which developed the Contemporary Baseball Era player ballot, includes Bob Elliott (Canadian Baseball Network), Jim Henneman (formerly Baltimore Sun), Steve Hirdt (Stats Perform), Rick Hummel (St. Louis Post-Dispatch), David O’Brien (The Athletic), Jack O’Connell (BBWAA), Jim Reeves (formerly Fort Worth Star Telegram), Tracy Ringolsby (InsidetheSeams.com); Glenn Schwarz (formerly San Francisco Chronicle), Susan Slusser (San Francisco Chronicle) and Mark Whicker (Los Angeles News Group).


++ Interesting that Sosa isn't among those being considered. His stats were superior to any batter on that list not named Bonds -- far superior in most cases.

++ McGwire's not on the list, either. Like Sosa, he could be considered in a future year.

++ Mattingly's numbers are inferior to everyone else's on that list, and by a pretty wide margin. He lost his power midway through his career, and his last 6 seasons -- with his .750 OPS and averages of 10 HRs and 64 RBIs -- were pedestrian at best. He's a good guy, an assumed non-juicer, and a former player with a lot of NY and LA support. Belongs in the Hall of Very Good.

++ If Bonds and Clemens don't make it with this group, they might never.
"We have a severe problem in American life today called the assault on truth." -- Pulitzer Prize winning New Yorker editor David Remnick

Sultan Sultanberger

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Re: 2022 MLB Thread
« Reply #1854 on: November 28, 2022, 12:40:13 PM »
Sosa hasn't been retired for 15 years - officially retired in 2009.
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MU82

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Re: 2022 MLB Thread
« Reply #1855 on: November 28, 2022, 01:18:32 PM »
Sosa hasn't been retired for 15 years - officially retired in 2009.

Good catch, thanks. That makes sense.
"We have a severe problem in American life today called the assault on truth." -- Pulitzer Prize winning New Yorker editor David Remnick

Jockey

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Re: 2022 MLB Thread
« Reply #1856 on: November 28, 2022, 01:25:23 PM »
Abreu to Houston? Looks like it.

ZiggysFryBoy

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Re: 2022 MLB Thread
« Reply #1857 on: November 28, 2022, 04:57:11 PM »
Abreu to Houston? Looks like it.

He gowne.

HouWarrior

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Re: 2022 MLB Thread
« Reply #1858 on: November 29, 2022, 10:09:25 AM »
Jose Abreu appears to be a good signing for the Astros. Assuming we re-up with Christian Vasquez and Maldonado handling our catching, our infield is set. 1B Abreu, 2B Altuve, 3B Bregman SS Pena

Utility isnt settled. Astros may make a below the radar signing to go with Dubon and Hensley. Aldemys Diaz will go elsewhere.

 RP Rafael Montero was also signed. Our bullpen also is signed and all set CL Pressley, Setup Montero, Hector Neris, Brian Abreau, Stanek, Phil Maton Long relief/spot starter Seth Martinez, Hunter Brown

Astros must put on a real we wanna keep him show, but if J Verlander insists on 3 years $120 million plus (Sherzer deal),...well for this team the big money needs are elsewhere. Why is JV gone? Mainly,...Regardless of Verlander's destination, Our SP is already set. Framber Valdez, Christian Javier, Lance McCullers, Jose Urquidy, and Luis Garcia are here now (see also Hunter Brown).

That unused JV money should be going next to RF Kyle Tucker We have him cheap for 3 years, but best now to lock him up for a bit post arb elig...5-6 years $125 mil should be near the announced deal. Also, in 2023 it will be time to lock up some of our young starting pitchers longer term

My Guess is Lefty OF Michael Brantley gets re-upped 1-2 years and we'll light pencil him in LF, alternating with Yordan Alvarez at DH . 3rd year OF Chas McCormick will be in center. But ....

of all the issue areas, Astros are most likely to move on a FA for OF/DH help. For us, Benitendi costs too much, CF Cody Bellinger is only a one year poss (has he solved his poor hitting?), and Nimmo is the most likely FA fail of 2023. Suggestions?

Dont totally assume Yuli Gurriel is gone. For one year 4 -5 mil, He can play 1B (Golden Glove) back up 3b Breggy and DH where needed

Except for a Verlander announcement, and a likely OF addition, almost the same Astros are ready for 2023.
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DegenerateDish

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Re: 2022 MLB Thread
« Reply #1859 on: November 29, 2022, 05:40:47 PM »
I enjoyed Abreu’s career on the Sox, he’s a good dude too.

3 years for Abreu is bad business though. I’ve often joked that as much as I enjoyed Abreu, when they retire 79 in Chicago, they should also retire 6-4-3 as well. I’m not sure why Houston thought three years was a good idea, he’s clearly in a decline.

Pakuni

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Re: 2022 MLB Thread
« Reply #1860 on: November 29, 2022, 05:57:28 PM »
I enjoyed Abreu’s career on the Sox, he’s a good dude too.

3 years for Abreu is bad business though. I’ve often joked that as much as I enjoyed Abreu, when they retire 79 in Chicago, they should also retire 6-4-3 as well. I’m not sure why Houston thought three years was a good idea, he’s clearly in a decline.

Completely agree. Love what Jose has done for the Sox, but glad they didn't give him this deal. Strange thing is, his greatest value to the Sox - clubhouse leader, face of the team - won't translate in Houston.
That said, I hope the Sox have plans for this money beyond Mike Clevinger.

MU82

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Re: 2022 MLB Thread
« Reply #1861 on: November 29, 2022, 06:17:45 PM »
I enjoyed Abreu’s career on the Sox, he’s a good dude too.

3 years for Abreu is bad business though. I’ve often joked that as much as I enjoyed Abreu, when they retire 79 in Chicago, they should also retire 6-4-3 as well. I’m not sure why Houston thought three years was a good idea, he’s clearly in a decline.

These days, you hope to realize 2/3rds of contracts like these. If the Astros get one typical Abreu season and also a decent-to-good season out of him, they will have considered it a great signing. Obviously, that's still a big if, but they'd be happy with that.
"We have a severe problem in American life today called the assault on truth." -- Pulitzer Prize winning New Yorker editor David Remnick

DegenerateDish

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Re: 2022 MLB Thread
« Reply #1862 on: November 29, 2022, 07:15:49 PM »
Completely agree. Love what Jose has done for the Sox, but glad they didn't give him this deal. Strange thing is, his greatest value to the Sox - clubhouse leader, face of the team - won't translate in Houston.
That said, I hope the Sox have plans for this money beyond Mike Clevinger.

Yeah, $12M for Clevinger is no bueno, I don’t know who they thought they were competing with to go to $12M, especially this early in the market. This is kinda like when they went out early and overpaid Eaton to come back a couple years ago.

DegenerateDish

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Re: 2022 MLB Thread
« Reply #1863 on: November 29, 2022, 07:24:40 PM »
These days, you hope to realize 2/3rds of contracts like these. If the Astros get one typical Abreu season and also a decent-to-good season out of him, they will have considered it a great signing. Obviously, that's still a big if, but they'd be happy with that.

This goes against what the Astros have done during their run. Giving a 36 year old 1B/DH, who is clearly on the decline, $19.5 million a year for the next 3 years makes no sense. It’s the equivalent of paying a 30 year old running back in football, those positions are very replaceable.

I’d rather have had 2 years of Rizzo at $20M per. The real winner here is Josh Bell, he’s probably now looking at a 3 year $55M deal from someone (Cleveland?).

MU82

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Re: 2022 MLB Thread
« Reply #1864 on: November 29, 2022, 10:01:41 PM »
This goes against what the Astros have done during their run. Giving a 36 year old 1B/DH, who is clearly on the decline, $19.5 million a year for the next 3 years makes no sense. It’s the equivalent of paying a 30 year old running back in football, those positions are very replaceable.

I’d rather have had 2 years of Rizzo at $20M per. The real winner here is Josh Bell, he’s probably now looking at a 3 year $55M deal from someone (Cleveland?).

Reasonable take.
"We have a severe problem in American life today called the assault on truth." -- Pulitzer Prize winning New Yorker editor David Remnick

HouWarrior

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Re: 2022 MLB Thread
« Reply #1865 on: November 30, 2022, 09:23:11 AM »
This goes against what the Astros have done during their run. Giving a 36 year old 1B/DH, who is clearly on the decline, $19.5 million a year for the next 3 years makes no sense. It’s the equivalent of paying a 30 year old running back in football, those positions are very replaceable.

I’d rather have had 2 years of Rizzo at $20M per. The real winner here is Josh Bell, he’s probably now looking at a 3 year $55M deal from someone (Cleveland?).
Astros are handling free agency with only 1) owner Jim Crane as defacto GM and 2) Jeff Bagwell as the former player/whisperer. Its not normal. NO one is being heard on analytics or the issues you note

Rizzo was the Astros first pursuit. They blew it.  Their Rizzo interest, including the pleasure of also weakening the yankees, became public.  It is unclear how far they got as Yankees almost immediately locked Rizzo in at your numbers. $17mil per year for 3 years and a 3rd year club buyout of $6mil . Oops lesson learned....shut up about your targets

Bagwell also liked Abreu...a consistent up the middle contact hitter, and Bags went with Crane to visit Abreu. A few things, Here:
1) Crane had just lost out in stunning quickness on Rizzo, and we see Bell as a big drop off so Astros were determined on Abreu;

2) At least 2-3 other teams were seriously in play, up bidding is predictable/expected. A rumor here was Guardians had tendered the exact same 3years/dollars and Abreu chose Astros to get a ring

3)Crane is the owner/GM and Baggy is a former player...neither see the amounts paid viz others nearly as relevant as getting the best guy they can to take over 1st base. BTW,  Yuli Gurriel likely will re-up but as a utility guy, for less $$

4) At least until a new GM is here in 2023, you'll see the Astros getting away from their system and analytics (Baggy is very very anti -analytics...think Joe Morgan)

5) Crane and Baggy will get us set for 2023 but likely not in the "Astro way" and with more overpayments coming. We are still a long way from Dodger/Yankee stupid with $, though. (Except for McCullers) our starting pitching staff is the cheapest in MLB:
Framber Valdez 3 mil; Luis Garcia 1.25 mil; Christian Javier 750k Jose Urquidy 750k Hunter Brown 700k...less than 7mil total

6)Crane hinted at his illogical generosity when he rush re-signed RP Rafael Montero for above market $$
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muwarrior69

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Re: 2022 MLB Thread
« Reply #1866 on: November 30, 2022, 12:08:35 PM »

JWags85

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Re: 2022 MLB Thread
« Reply #1867 on: November 30, 2022, 12:16:32 PM »
300M+ for a power hitter than will be 31 by the time next season starts?  No thank you.

Boras and Juan Soto have to be watching this with glee

CTWarrior

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Re: 2022 MLB Thread
« Reply #1868 on: November 30, 2022, 04:16:01 PM »
It's gonna be real interesting to see if any of the juicers get in when the Baseball Hall of Fame's new Contemporary Baseball Era Players Committee meets in about a week to consider the likes of Clemens and Bonds.

Press release from the HoF:

(COOPERSTOWN, NY) – Eight players whose primary contributions to the game came within the last 40-plus years will be considered for Hall of Fame election at Baseball’s Winter Meetings.
 
The Contemporary Baseball Era Players Committee will meet for the first time on Sunday, Dec. 4, in San Diego. Eight former big leaguers comprise the Contemporary Baseball Era Committee player ballot, which features candidates whose primary contribution to the game came from 1980 to the present.
 
The 16-member Contemporary Baseball Era Players Committee will consider only candidates on the ballot, and any candidate receiving votes on at least 75 percent of all ballots cast will earn induction into the Hall of Fame as part of the Class of 2023.
 
Results of the voting will be announced live on MLB Network on Sunday, Dec. 4 during MLB Tonight at 8 p.m. ET. Any electees are expected to be available to media shortly after the announcement via individual Zoom calls.
 
Albert Belle, Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Don Mattingly, Fred McGriff, Dale Murphy, Rafael Palmeiro and Curt Schilling were named on Nov. 7 as the candidates for Contemporary Baseball Era Players Committee consideration. All candidates are living.
 
Any candidates elected will be inducted in Cooperstown on July 23, 2023, along with any electees who emerge from the 2023 Baseball Writers’ Association of America election, which will be announced on Jan. 24, 2023, exclusively on MLB Network.
 
The 16-member Hall of Fame Board-appointed electorate charged with the review of the Contemporary Baseball Era player ballot features Hall of Fame members Chipper Jones, Greg Maddux, Jack Morris, Ryne Sandberg, Lee Smith, Frank Thomas and Alan Trammell; major league executives Paul Beeston, Theo Epstein, Arte Moreno, Kim Ng, Dave St. Peter and Ken Williams; and veteran media members/historians Steve Hirdt, LaVelle Neal and Susan Slusser.
   
Hall of Fame Chairman of the Board Jane Forbes Clark will serve as the non-voting Chairman of the Contemporary Baseball Era Players Committee.
 
The eight Contemporary Baseball Era Players Committee finalists were selected by the Baseball Writers’ Association of America-appointed Historical Overview Committee from all eligible candidates whose most significant career impact was realized from 1980 to the present. Eligible candidates include players who played in at least 10 major league seasons, who have been retired for at least 15 seasons and who are not on Major League Baseball’s ineligible list.
 
The Historical Overview Committee, which developed the Contemporary Baseball Era player ballot, includes Bob Elliott (Canadian Baseball Network), Jim Henneman (formerly Baltimore Sun), Steve Hirdt (Stats Perform), Rick Hummel (St. Louis Post-Dispatch), David O’Brien (The Athletic), Jack O’Connell (BBWAA), Jim Reeves (formerly Fort Worth Star Telegram), Tracy Ringolsby (InsidetheSeams.com); Glenn Schwarz (formerly San Francisco Chronicle), Susan Slusser (San Francisco Chronicle) and Mark Whicker (Los Angeles News Group).


++ Interesting that Sosa isn't among those being considered. His stats were superior to any batter on that list not named Bonds -- far superior in most cases.

++ McGwire's not on the list, either. Like Sosa, he could be considered in a future year.

++ Mattingly's numbers are inferior to everyone else's on that list, and by a pretty wide margin. He lost his power midway through his career, and his last 6 seasons -- with his .750 OPS and averages of 10 HRs and 64 RBIs -- were pedestrian at best. He's a good guy, an assumed non-juicer, and a former player with a lot of NY and LA support. Belongs in the Hall of Very Good.

++ If Bonds and Clemens don't make it with this group, they might never.

Morris, Sandberg and Thomas are outspoken anti-steroids guys, so Clemens, Bonds and Palmeiro can only afford 1 of the other 13 to vote no, so I do not think they have any kind of shot.

Schilling is the interesting one to me.  His career numbers (around 80 WAR, .597 W/L PCT, 3116 K/346 BB ratio, 216 W, impeccable postseason pitcher) are definitely worthy, plus he won every humanitarian good guy award there was to win during his career.  He's the first guy I can think of to be excluded from the HOF for being a jerk after his playing days. (I don't count Rose because he is not out of the Hall for being a jerk, but for breaking the gambling rule).

Mattingly on track to HOF but back injuries did him in, so like Dale Murphy and Albert Belle he was great but not for long enough. 

I think McGriff might be the guy who makes it, but Schilling, Clemens and Bonds would probably be my vote.  Bonds and Clemens just too good to ignore.

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Marqus Howard

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Re: 2022 MLB Thread
« Reply #1869 on: December 01, 2022, 12:48:29 AM »
Sosa hasn't been retired for 15 years - officially retired in 2009.

His first year on the writer’s ballot was 2013, so I think the Hall considers him retired for 15 years.

The era committee process is incredibly flawed. Highly recommend Jay Jaffe’s articles on Fangraphs for in-depth analyses of each candidate.

DegenerateDish

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Re: 2022 MLB Thread
« Reply #1870 on: December 02, 2022, 07:08:21 PM »
deGrom to Texas, 5/185. The length of the deal for him is scary, but AAV isn’t awful.

wadesworld

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Re: 2022 MLB Thread
« Reply #1871 on: December 02, 2022, 08:34:46 PM »
deGrom to Texas, 5/185. The length of the deal for him is scary, but AAV isn’t awful.

Yeah I thought the dollars were pretty low.
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Jockey

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Re: 2022 MLB Thread
« Reply #1872 on: December 02, 2022, 09:58:40 PM »
deGrom to Texas, 5/185. The length of the deal for him is scary, but AAV isn’t awful.

I disagree. Based only on his health, not his talent. He has averaged less than 13 starts a year for the last 3 years.

DegenerateDish

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Re: 2022 MLB Thread
« Reply #1873 on: December 02, 2022, 11:13:45 PM »
I disagree. Based only on his health, not his talent. He has averaged less than 13 starts a year for the last 3 years.

I thought he was going to get between $45 - $50 per. I certainly won’t argue against his health concerns, I just don’t think this is as bad as I thought it was going to be.

Jockey

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Re: 2022 MLB Thread
« Reply #1874 on: December 03, 2022, 09:11:39 AM »
I thought he was going to get between $45 - $50 per. I certainly won’t argue against his health concerns, I just don’t think this is as bad as I thought it was going to be.

I wasn’t surprised by the amount and the injury history kept the number down. It is still just a terrible deal, though. 

I said the same thing here on Scoop when the Blue Jays signed Ryu 3 years ago because on his injury history and that contract was an absolute disaster.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2022, 09:16:53 AM by Jockey »

 

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