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Author Topic: Rittenhouse Volume 2  (Read 4483 times)

Hards_Alumni

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Re: Rittenhouse Volume 2
« Reply #25 on: November 09, 2021, 11:26:43 AM »
Lets see, if I were to bet (which you probably can these days).  My guesses at verdicts (without commentary):

First-degree reckless homicide (COUNT 1)
 - Not Guilty, self defense - Yep

First-degree recklessly endangering safety (COUNTS 2 AND 5)
 - Guilty Yep

First-degree intentional homicide (COUNT 3)
 - Not Guilty, self defense Yep

Attempted first-degree intentional homicide (COUNT 4)
 - Guilty (toughest one, not sure) Nope

Possession of a dangerous weapon by a person under 18 (COUNT 6, misdemeanor)
 - Guilty Yep

Use of a dangerous weapon (AGGRAVATING FACTOR)
 - Yes, just adds to any other felony guilty verdict  Yep

Minor time for Kyle.

rocket ALM surgeon

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Re: Rittenhouse Volume 2
« Reply #26 on: November 09, 2021, 04:09:29 PM »
I grew up in Kenosha and the cops were outstanding. That has really changed though in the last 20 years.

They went from being a community force to being an overly armed militia.

you mean that "overtly armed militia" that sat back and watched kenosha burn?  you know blake admitted he was armed with a knife, right? 
"you ever been to a caucus...no you haven't, you're a lying dog-faced pony soldier"

21Jumpstreet

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Re: Rittenhouse Volume 2
« Reply #27 on: November 09, 2021, 04:43:50 PM »
Apparently a defense witness said on the stand that the prosecutor attempted to get him to change his statement. That’s not good for the State.

pacearrow02

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Re: Rittenhouse Volume 2
« Reply #28 on: November 10, 2021, 08:50:48 AM »
I'll be the first to admit I haven't been following much of this case. But to me the key is the first encounter. The new surveillance videos show him as the aggressor, and chasing the eventual victim.

At that point, he is an individual illegally in possession of a firearm, chasing an unarmed civilian. He is not in a position of self-defense, he has initiated the confrontation and is guilty.

Arguments could be made for self defense in some of the subsequent encounters, but they all stem from the same illegal original act.

Do you have a link to that video?   Been following the case pretty closely and haven’t seen any video or testimony suggesting Rittenhouse was chasing Rosenbaum at any point.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2021/11/03/us/kyle-rittenhouse-trial/index.html

If the video in the above link is what you’re referring to then you have a pretty interesting take on it. 
« Last Edit: November 10, 2021, 09:37:17 AM by pacearrow02 »

Fluffy Blue Monster

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Re: Rittenhouse Volume 2
« Reply #29 on: November 10, 2021, 02:17:33 PM »
This is pretty much where I lie on this:

Josh Barro
@jbarro
It was morally reprehensible for Rittenhouse to voluntarily put himself in a position where he was likely to feel compelled to use deadly force against another person. Whether he committed a crime is a question of fact and Wisconsin law I'm not so sure about.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.”  -Clarence Darrow

Hards_Alumni

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Re: Rittenhouse Volume 2
« Reply #30 on: November 10, 2021, 02:23:41 PM »

Pakuni

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Re: Rittenhouse Volume 2
« Reply #31 on: November 10, 2021, 02:30:23 PM »
This is pretty much where I lie on this:

Josh Barro
@jbarro
It was morally reprehensible for Rittenhouse to voluntarily put himself in a position where he was likely to feel compelled to use deadly force against another person. Whether he committed a crime is a question of fact and Wisconsin law I'm not so sure about.

He committed a crime. It's just that homicide isn't it.
Of course, his biggest offense is being a criminally stupid kid with incredibly lousy parents.

Fluffy Blue Monster

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Re: Rittenhouse Volume 2
« Reply #32 on: November 10, 2021, 02:46:29 PM »
He committed a crime. It's just that homicide isn't it.
Of course, his biggest offense is being a criminally stupid kid with incredibly lousy parents.

Yes, yes and yes.  I am not following this terribly closely, but that seems to be fairly accurate to me.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.”  -Clarence Darrow

CountryRoads

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Re: Rittenhouse Volume 2
« Reply #33 on: November 10, 2021, 03:00:51 PM »
This is pretty much where I lie on this:

Josh Barro
@jbarro
It was morally reprehensible for Rittenhouse to voluntarily put himself in a position where he was likely to feel compelled to use deadly force against another person. Whether he committed a crime is a question of fact and Wisconsin law I'm not so sure about.

Yeah, I think that is hard to argue with. Nearly everyone there was looking for some kind of trouble, Rittenhouse included.

MU82

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Re: Rittenhouse Volume 2
« Reply #34 on: November 10, 2021, 03:17:42 PM »
“A lot of the stuff that we believe in and that I’ve always believed in — it takes time. It’s not a quick fix. It’s not an instant-gratification thing. It’s a drip-by-drip process.”

-- Shaka Smart, in The Athletic, 10/13/21

Hards_Alumni

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Re: Rittenhouse Volume 2
« Reply #35 on: November 10, 2021, 03:22:06 PM »
At least they didn't ask him to try on any gloves!

This is 100x worse.  Violated Rittenhouse's rights. 

Pakuni

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Re: Rittenhouse Volume 2
« Reply #36 on: November 10, 2021, 03:26:03 PM »
This is 100x worse.  Violated Rittenhouse's rights.

Not really. Go back and read the question. It really wasn't nearly as bad as the judge (who's bonkers, btw) made it seem.

Fluffy Blue Monster

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Re: Rittenhouse Volume 2
« Reply #37 on: November 10, 2021, 03:30:56 PM »
Not really. Go back and read the question. It really wasn't nearly as bad as the judge (who's bonkers, btw) made it seem.


A two-time Marquette grad!
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.”  -Clarence Darrow

Hards_Alumni

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Re: Rittenhouse Volume 2
« Reply #38 on: November 10, 2021, 03:32:46 PM »
Not really. Go back and read the question. It really wasn't nearly as bad as the judge (who's bonkers, btw) made it seem.

During cross-examination, prosecutors questioned Rittenhouse about statements he made before the shootings. The judge previously ruled those statements were inadmissible.

Is this what happened or not? 

YaBlueIt

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Re: Rittenhouse Volume 2
« Reply #39 on: November 10, 2021, 03:36:25 PM »
Everything I've seen (and heard) points to the conclusion that Rittenhouse will be found not guilty for all homicide charges. But you hope that tragedies like this eventually convince people to stop LARPing as vigilantes and revolutionaries, especially when guns are involved. This is the issue that arises when people lose trust in the systems we have in place, be it government or law enforcement or whatever. People begin operating outside of those systems, and then aren't prepared for when s#*t hits the fan.

When you break the rules of the system by acting as a vigilante, don't expect the mob to follow "the rules" either. If you bring a gun, don't be surprised when you have to use it. If you're "protecting property because the police won't", don't expect the police to come save you when things don't go as planned. Not going to name names because we all know, but other people have gotten themselves or others killed because they believed that "the system" had failed them, and it was their duty to act.

The judge had to grant a ten minute recess today because Rittenhouse couldn't get through his own testimony without sobbing all over himself. I don't think he intentionally murdered anyone, but I also think he was a 17 year old kid who had no idea what he was getting himself into. He clearly was not emotionally or mentally prepared to face the consequences of his decisions. He learned the hard way, and now people are dead because of it. I just hope his example makes others think twice before doing the same.

But I'm sure Rittenhouse felt pretty bada$$ for a few hours while he carried that gun around illegally to "protect" a town he'd never been to before. Hope it was worth it kid.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2021, 03:41:06 PM by YaBlueIt »

Pakuni

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Re: Rittenhouse Volume 2
« Reply #40 on: November 10, 2021, 03:50:16 PM »
During cross-examination, prosecutors questioned Rittenhouse about statements he made before the shootings. The judge previously ruled those statements were inadmissible.

Is this what happened or not?

This isn't what set the judge off.
The judge was mad because the prosecutor asked Rittenhouse about his testimony being the first time he told his side of the story and him not giving previous statements to cops. The judge (and defense) took umbrage, because Rittenhouse has a Constitutional right not to give statements to cops and his exercising of that right can't be used against him. The question implies that Rittenhouse was somehow uncooperative or did something wrong by exercising his right, which can be seen as prejudicial.
It was a cheap ploy by the prosecution, but that's all. Crap like that happens in criminal trials. 

ZiggysFryBoy

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Re: Rittenhouse Volume 2
« Reply #41 on: November 10, 2021, 03:52:07 PM »
This isn't what set the judge off.
The judge was mad because the prosecutor asked Rittenhouse about his testimony being the first time he told his side of the story and him not giving previous statements to cops. The judge (and defense) took umbrage, because Rittenhouse has a Constitutional right not to give statements to cops and his exercising of that right can't be used against him. The question implies that Rittenhouse was somehow uncooperative or did something wrong by exercising his right, which can be seen as prejudicial.
It was a cheap ploy by the prosecution, but that's all. Crap like that happens in criminal trials.

A cheap ploy or violating his Miranda rights and the 5th amendment?

Pakuni

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Re: Rittenhouse Volume 2
« Reply #42 on: November 10, 2021, 03:57:22 PM »
A cheap ploy or violating his Miranda rights and the 5th amendment?

A cheap ploy.
Attorneys asking questions they know are going to be objected/sustained is not uncommon.

MuggsyB

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Re: Rittenhouse Volume 2
« Reply #43 on: November 10, 2021, 06:16:40 PM »
Haven't followed it closely but it sounds like the prosecution hasn't done themselves any favors.  I would be shocked if he gets anything other than a minor charge for underage possession of the weapon.  Unless the jury is bribed.

CountryRoads

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Re: Rittenhouse Volume 2
« Reply #44 on: November 10, 2021, 06:46:52 PM »
Haven't followed it closely but it sounds like the prosecution hasn't done themselves any favors.  I would be shocked if he gets anything other than a minor charge for underage possession of the weapon.  Unless the jury is bribed.

Or threatened

TSmith34

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Re: Rittenhouse Volume 2
« Reply #45 on: November 10, 2021, 06:54:14 PM »
Everything I've seen (and heard) points to the conclusion that Rittenhouse will be found not guilty for all homicide charges. But you hope that tragedies like this eventually convince people to stop LARPing as vigilantes and revolutionaries, especially when guns are involved. This is the issue that arises when people lose trust in the systems we have in place, be it government or law enforcement or whatever. People begin operating outside of those systems, and then aren't prepared for when s#*t hits the fan.
Unfortunately, I think not guilty verdicts on all homicide charges will have just the opposite effect.

MuggsyB

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Re: Rittenhouse Volume 2
« Reply #46 on: November 10, 2021, 06:57:22 PM »
Or threatened

True.  The 5 mins of the prosecutor's questions I heard on the radio was bizarre.  Although, I'm surprised Rittenhouse took the stand.  But this you were not threatened /"no one shot at you" narrative was seriously ridiculous from the attorney.  So, you can only defend yourself after someone shoots?  WTF?  I agree the kid shouldn't have been there or had a rifle but there was never anything close to a 1st degree homicide case.  And the fact is there were a plethora of people that shouldn't have been there and exacerbated the situation.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2021, 07:00:12 PM by MuggsyB »

MU Fan in Connecticut

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Re: Rittenhouse Volume 2
« Reply #47 on: November 10, 2021, 07:23:19 PM »
A cheap ploy.
Attorneys asking questions they know are going to be objected/sustained is not uncommon.

Just watch Law and Order.  Happens every episode for 21 years.

Skatastrophy

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Re: Rittenhouse Volume 2
« Reply #48 on: November 10, 2021, 07:50:47 PM »
The Rittenhouse fake crying video was pretty funny.

rocket ALM surgeon

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Re: Rittenhouse Volume 2
« Reply #49 on: November 10, 2021, 08:11:00 PM »
The Rittenhouse fake crying video was pretty funny.

 the actual part in the trial this morning was really heart breaking sad.  he really tried to soldier thru but when his breathing started to get labored, judge recognizes rittenhouse can't go on like this and the jury doesn't need to see anymore.  patient in my chair broke down crying as she watched.  looked for a moment like he was going to suffer a real breakdown.  that's not funny.  kudos to judge for recognizing this and taking a break.  anyone having any compassion for another regardless of your position here has to feel for the guy,  yes, he put himself in the position he was, but i think we can agree that he didn't go there to kill 2 people and injure another

btw rockie-he didn't "re-rack" the gun before shooting that gage guy
"you ever been to a caucus...no you haven't, you're a lying dog-faced pony soldier"