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Author Topic: Rittenhouse Volume 2  (Read 4486 times)

#UnleashKolek

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Rittenhouse Volume 2
« on: November 08, 2021, 04:12:19 PM »
Scoop has been generally okay on these topics lately so let's see how long this one will last.


Looks as if that trial is pretty much over.

JWags85

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Re: Rittenhouse Volume 2
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2021, 04:38:48 PM »
Scoop has been generally okay on these topics lately so let's see how long this one will last.


Looks as if that trial is pretty much over.

We must be looking at different Scoops  :o

rocky_warrior

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Re: Rittenhouse Volume 2
« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2021, 04:47:52 PM »
Lets see, if I were to bet (which you probably can these days).  My guesses at verdicts (without commentary):

First-degree reckless homicide (COUNT 1)
 - Not Guilty, self defense

First-degree recklessly endangering safety (COUNTS 2 AND 5)
 - Guilty

First-degree intentional homicide (COUNT 3)
 - Not Guilty, self defense

Attempted first-degree intentional homicide (COUNT 4)
 - Guilty (toughest one, not sure)

Possession of a dangerous weapon by a person under 18 (COUNT 6, misdemeanor)
 - Guilty

Use of a dangerous weapon (AGGRAVATING FACTOR)
 - Yes, just adds to any other felony guilty verdict
“Normal is an illusion. What's normal for the spider is chaos for the fly.”  -Morticia Addams

#UnleashKolek

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Re: Rittenhouse Volume 2
« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2021, 04:52:40 PM »
Lets see, if I were to bet (which you probably can these days).  My guesses at verdicts (without commentary):

First-degree reckless homicide (COUNT 1)
 - Not Guilty, self defense

First-degree recklessly endangering safety (COUNTS 2 AND 5)
 - Guilty

First-degree intentional homicide (COUNT 3)
 - Not Guilty, self defense

Attempted first-degree intentional homicide (COUNT 4)
 - Guilty (toughest one, not sure)

Possession of a dangerous weapon by a person under 18 (COUNT 6, misdemeanor)
 - Guilty

Use of a dangerous weapon (AGGRAVATING FACTOR)
 - Yes, just adds to any other felony guilty verdict

Which guy is count 4 for?

Nevermind, I suck at reading. If you haven't seen the video yet, that one is pretty much going to be not guilty

Only video I could find btw:
https://www.reddit.com/r/InsaneProtestors/comments/qpk9hi/protest_fallout_leftistdemocrat_blm_protestor_who/
« Last Edit: November 08, 2021, 04:57:43 PM by #UnleashRowsey »

MU82

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Re: Rittenhouse Volume 2
« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2021, 04:54:04 PM »
IBTL
“A lot of the stuff that we believe in and that I’ve always believed in — it takes time. It’s not a quick fix. It’s not an instant-gratification thing. It’s a drip-by-drip process.”

-- Shaka Smart, in The Athletic, 10/13/21

Uncle Rico

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Re: Rittenhouse Volume 2
« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2021, 04:56:20 PM »
Rittenhouse Rye is a classic.  Popular in the 50’s and 60’s, it’s made a resurgence with the whiskey boom. 
Tis a shame, 'tis a rotton shame, for if ye can enjoy the walkin’ ye can probably enjoy the other times in yer life when ve're in between. And that's most o' the time; wouldn't ye say?

rocky_warrior

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Re: Rittenhouse Volume 2
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2021, 04:58:00 PM »
Which guy is count 4 for?

They guy that lived (thus, attempted)
“Normal is an illusion. What's normal for the spider is chaos for the fly.”  -Morticia Addams

rocky_warrior

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Re: Rittenhouse Volume 2
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2021, 05:02:05 PM »
If you haven't seen the video yet, that one is pretty much going to be not guilty

I've watched lots of video, and read daily recaps.  Just my guesses.  They may all be wrong.
“Normal is an illusion. What's normal for the spider is chaos for the fly.”  -Morticia Addams

#UnleashKolek

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Re: Rittenhouse Volume 2
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2021, 05:08:00 PM »
I've watched lots of video, and read daily recaps.  Just my guesses.  They may all be wrong.

From the group of defense lawyers voicing over a stream, it seems that all murder charges will be not guilty.

rocky_warrior

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Re: Rittenhouse Volume 2
« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2021, 05:09:29 PM »
From the group of defense lawyers voicing over a stream, it seems that all murder charges will be not guilty.

They are not the jury, nor was that testimony "all" the evidence. 
“Normal is an illusion. What's normal for the spider is chaos for the fly.”  -Morticia Addams

CountryRoads

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Re: Rittenhouse Volume 2
« Reply #10 on: November 08, 2021, 05:38:05 PM »
They are not the jury, nor was that testimony "all" the evidence.

I believe this is the video the other poster was referring to (regarding the guy that survived):

https://twitter.com/thevivafrei/status/1457774701673996298?s=21

Another swing and miss from the prosecution was this one related to one of the deceased (language warning):

https://twitter.com/jordylancaster/status/1456336920099885066?s=21

Lastly, looks like some jury intimidation from an individual who is allegedly “family” (not blood related) with George Floyd:

https://twitter.com/johnmcurtis/status/1457343779833360389?s=21

My prediction is Rittenhouse gets nothing, but it’s a shame that life was lost nonetheless.

#UnleashKolek

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Re: Rittenhouse Volume 2
« Reply #11 on: November 08, 2021, 06:19:31 PM »
He'll definitely get this one: Possession of a dangerous weapon by a person under 18 (COUNT 6, misdemeanor)
 
and possibly this one: First-degree recklessly endangering safety (COUNTS 2 AND 5)

jesmu84

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Re: Rittenhouse Volume 2
« Reply #12 on: November 08, 2021, 07:15:53 PM »
The real crime here was not being detained by the police whenever someone noticed his firearm

JWags85

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Re: Rittenhouse Volume 2
« Reply #13 on: November 08, 2021, 07:22:03 PM »
My prediction is Rittenhouse gets nothing, but it’s a shame that life was lost nonetheless.

He'll definitely get this one: Possession of a dangerous weapon by a person under 18 (COUNT 6, misdemeanor)
 
and possibly this one: First-degree recklessly endangering safety (COUNTS 2 AND 5)

Yep.  Listen, I think he's a Dbag and a hardo who went looking for a fight and to play soldier, but its really hard to call it murder, much less get a murder charge, when you have other sh**y people also committing violent acts against him, one of whom was also armed with a gun.

That being said, I hope he gets prison time and an unfriendly welcome in gen pop.

The real crime here was not being detained by the police whenever someone noticed his firearm

Honestly, the more and more time goes on, NOBODY looks good coming out of the Kenosha situation.  Just terrible crap all over.

rocky_warrior

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Re: Rittenhouse Volume 2
« Reply #14 on: November 08, 2021, 07:38:59 PM »
I think he's a Dbag and a hardo who went looking for a fight and to play soldier, but its really hard to call it murder, much less get a murder charge, when you have other sh**y people also committing violent acts against him, one of whom was also armed with a gun.

Hm, this makes it sound like you haven't been following closely.  The first two guys definitely chased him.  The first had mental issues (was just released from the hospital) and lunged at him, the second chased him and hit him with a skateboard.  The guy armed with a gun was the least threatening.  He had his hands up in the air just after Rittenhouse shot the second guy, but then when Rittenhouse pointed the gun at him, and re-racked it, he lowered his arms and pointed his gun - then was shot.  Who was acting in self defense?

So, it may *all* be self defense, but the "other" dude with a gun wasn't the threatening one.   I have lots of questions about shooting someone hitting you with a skateboard and whether shooting him is within "self defense", but since he wasn't present (obviously) I think the jury will side with self defense.  My gut is that the emotion of hearing a real human testify, even if he had a gun, will qualify as attempted homicide. 

Regardless, I expect the sentencing to be light regardless of the verdict.  He's a dumb kid that didn't have the necessary training to handle himself or that gun in that situation.  People (that were "volunteering" with Rittenhouse) also testified that he didn't seem comfortable, and he was carrying the gun in a hostile way - basically saying if he had the right training this never would have happened - they were worried about him.
“Normal is an illusion. What's normal for the spider is chaos for the fly.”  -Morticia Addams

rocky_warrior

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Re: Rittenhouse Volume 2
« Reply #15 on: November 08, 2021, 08:06:02 PM »
He had his hands up in the air just after Rittenhouse shot the second guy, but then when Rittenhouse pointed the gun at him, and re-racked it, he lowered his arms and pointed his gun - then was shot.  Who was acting in self defense?

Apologies for quoting myself, just trying to logic through this.  Two illegally armed civilians (one underage, the others concealed carry permit expired) point guns at each other.  One shoots and injures the other.  Who is guilty?  Maybe nobody. If anybody, it has to be the guy that actually fired a shot, right?   Does it matter who aimed first?
“Normal is an illusion. What's normal for the spider is chaos for the fly.”  -Morticia Addams

Spaniel with a Short Tail

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Re: Rittenhouse Volume 2
« Reply #16 on: November 08, 2021, 08:13:37 PM »
Rocky's take seems pretty sound. As to count 4, the victim's confusing testimony as to whether the gun was ever pointed at Rittenhouse likely doomed that chance of a G verdict. Remember, the prosecution has the burden and that testimony likely will likely convince one or more jurors to buy into self defense on that count also.

JWags85

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Re: Rittenhouse Volume 2
« Reply #17 on: November 08, 2021, 08:47:42 PM »
Hm, this makes it sound like you haven't been following closely.  The first two guys definitely chased him.  The first had mental issues (was just released from the hospital) and lunged at him, the second chased him and hit him with a skateboard.  The guy armed with a gun was the least threatening.  He had his hands up in the air just after Rittenhouse shot the second guy, but then when Rittenhouse pointed the gun at him, and re-racked it, he lowered his arms and pointed his gun - then was shot.  Who was acting in self defense?

So, it may *all* be self defense, but the "other" dude with a gun wasn't the threatening one.   I have lots of questions about shooting someone hitting you with a skateboard and whether shooting him is within "self defense", but since he wasn't present (obviously) I think the jury will side with self defense.  My gut is that the emotion of hearing a real human testify, even if he had a gun, will qualify as attempted homicide. 

Regardless, I expect the sentencing to be light regardless of the verdict.  He's a dumb kid that didn't have the necessary training to handle himself or that gun in that situation.  People (that were "volunteering" with Rittenhouse) also testified that he didn't seem comfortable, and he was carrying the gun in a hostile way - basically saying if he had the right training this never would have happened - they were worried about him.

I guess it all just comes down to "mob mentality".  You have a group of people chasing someone, someone is wielding a weapon (the skateboard), then as you are on your back as people are pursuing you, someone is holding a gun that is then pointed at you.  Even if you initially pointed the gun. 

I'm not a lawyer, but hypothetically, if you were being robbed, backed into a corner, you pulled your gun out, then one of the robbers pulled out their own gun after you leveled your gun at them, then you shot them, would you be deemed an aggressor, all things considered?  I guess this goes to your addendum.  I don't know the legalese enough, its surely murky.

I have a friend that got cracked in the face with a skateboard in a fight in college, severe concussion and lost 3 teeth, if someone wanted to finish the job with one they probably could, so I'm not so inclined to brush off a skateboard like a stick or a broom or something.

Again, I'm not defending Rittenhouse or his cowboy antics.  I think your last paragraph is pretty accurate.  He went in thinking he was a Call of Duty hero, but was untrained and reckless/spastic.  But at the same time, I think there were a lot of bad intentions all over the place.

Going back to Jesu's point, its even more baffling that the police weren't like "WTF are you doing?"  If not directly clocking him for the shooting, but just how he appeared with that gun.

rocky_warrior

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Re: Rittenhouse Volume 2
« Reply #18 on: November 08, 2021, 08:55:33 PM »
Thanks for the thoughts wags. 

The interesting part to me, while we can debate legalese, it all comes down to the emotion of the jury.  Which, in some ways is scary . Right & wrong don't necessarily matter.  It's how they felt about the testimony, but often comes back to emotion...one way or the other.

Going back to Jesu's point, its even more baffling that the police weren't like "WTF are you doing?"  If not directly clocking him for the shooting, but just how he appeared with that gun.

As I understand, there were several people all around town armed just like him.  And they police even thanked some of them for being there.  But that's not really part of this particular case.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2021, 09:08:30 PM by rocky_warrior »
“Normal is an illusion. What's normal for the spider is chaos for the fly.”  -Morticia Addams

Jockey

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Re: Rittenhouse Volume 2
« Reply #19 on: November 08, 2021, 11:10:36 PM »
The real crime here was not being detained by the police whenever someone noticed his firearm

I grew up in Kenosha and the cops were outstanding. That has really changed though in the last 20 years.

They went from being a community force to being an overly armed militia.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2021, 11:12:30 PM by Jockey »

#UnleashKolek

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Re: Rittenhouse Volume 2
« Reply #20 on: November 09, 2021, 06:14:31 AM »
I grew up in Kenosha and the cops were outstanding. That has really changed though in the last 20 years.

They went from being a community force to being an overly armed militia.

Sounds like the rest of america.

Lennys Tap

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Re: Rittenhouse Volume 2
« Reply #21 on: November 09, 2021, 07:00:10 AM »


The interesting part to me, while we can debate legalese, it all comes down to the emotion of the jury.  Which, in some ways is scary . Right & wrong don't necessarily matter.  It's how they felt about the testimony, but often comes back to emotion...one way or the other.


Rocky

Emotions trumping facts is nothing new in courtrooms or elsewhere.

Remember OJ? Or just read Scoop.




forgetful

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Re: Rittenhouse Volume 2
« Reply #22 on: November 09, 2021, 08:08:23 AM »
I guess it all just comes down to "mob mentality".  You have a group of people chasing someone, someone is wielding a weapon (the skateboard), then as you are on your back as people are pursuing you, someone is holding a gun that is then pointed at you.  Even if you initially pointed the gun. 

I'm not a lawyer, but hypothetically, if you were being robbed, backed into a corner, you pulled your gun out, then one of the robbers pulled out their own gun after you leveled your gun at them, then you shot them, would you be deemed an aggressor, all things considered?  I guess this goes to your addendum.  I don't know the legalese enough, its surely murky.

I have a friend that got cracked in the face with a skateboard in a fight in college, severe concussion and lost 3 teeth, if someone wanted to finish the job with one they probably could, so I'm not so inclined to brush off a skateboard like a stick or a broom or something.

Again, I'm not defending Rittenhouse or his cowboy antics.  I think your last paragraph is pretty accurate.  He went in thinking he was a Call of Duty hero, but was untrained and reckless/spastic.  But at the same time, I think there were a lot of bad intentions all over the place.

Going back to Jesu's point, its even more baffling that the police weren't like "WTF are you doing?"  If not directly clocking him for the shooting, but just how he appeared with that gun.

I'll be the first to admit I haven't been following much of this case. But to me the key is the first encounter. The new surveillance videos show him as the aggressor, and chasing the eventual victim.

At that point, he is an individual illegally in possession of a firearm, chasing an unarmed civilian. He is not in a position of self-defense, he has initiated the confrontation and is guilty.

Arguments could be made for self defense in some of the subsequent encounters, but they all stem from the same illegal original act.


Retire0

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Re: Rittenhouse Volume 2
« Reply #23 on: November 09, 2021, 08:37:45 AM »
The prosecution needs to drive this home, but it seems like too little too late. Minor charges will stick, but that's it.

I'll be the first to admit I haven't been following much of this case. But to me the key is the first encounter. The new surveillance videos show him as the aggressor, and chasing the eventual victim.

At that point, he is an individual illegally in possession of a firearm, chasing an unarmed civilian. He is not in a position of self-defense, he has initiated the confrontation and is guilty.

Arguments could be made for self defense in some of the subsequent encounters, but they all stem from the same illegal original act.


New TallTitan bold prediction: Sacar Anim will play in more NBA games than Markus Howard.

TallTitan's bold prediction of Davante Gardner being drafted in 2014.

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=27259.msg310060;topicseen#new

rocky_warrior

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Re: Rittenhouse Volume 2
« Reply #24 on: November 09, 2021, 09:56:43 AM »
Emotions trumping facts is nothing new in courtrooms or elsewhere.

yup
“Normal is an illusion. What's normal for the spider is chaos for the fly.”  -Morticia Addams

 

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