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Author Topic: Rittenhouse Volume 2  (Read 4484 times)

pacearrow02

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Re: Rittenhouse Volume 2
« Reply #50 on: November 10, 2021, 08:12:39 PM »
This isn't what set the judge off.
The judge was mad because the prosecutor asked Rittenhouse about his testimony being the first time he told his side of the story and him not giving previous statements to cops. The judge (and defense) took umbrage, because Rittenhouse has a Constitutional right not to give statements to cops and his exercising of that right can't be used against him. The question implies that Rittenhouse was somehow uncooperative or did something wrong by exercising his right, which can be seen as prejudicial.
It was a cheap ploy by the prosecution, but that's all. Crap like that happens in criminal trials.

Not surprisingly you are the only one I’ve seen with this take.  Every legal analyst on Court TV said they’ve never seen anything like it, but what do they know I guess.

forgetful

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Re: Rittenhouse Volume 2
« Reply #51 on: November 10, 2021, 08:15:15 PM »
Everything I've seen (and heard) points to the conclusion that Rittenhouse will be found not guilty for all homicide charges. But you hope that tragedies like this eventually convince people to stop LARPing as vigilantes and revolutionaries, especially when guns are involved.

Actually, if he doesn't face any serious time, things will get worse. It'll show people like Rittenhouse that yes, they can go out armed, and gun down anyone they feel threatened by, and get away with it.

MuggsyB

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Re: Rittenhouse Volume 2
« Reply #52 on: November 10, 2021, 08:18:12 PM »
Actually, if he doesn't face any serious time, things will get worse. It'll show people like Rittenhouse that yes, they can go out armed, and gun down anyone they feel threatened by, and get away with it.

So if the evidence shows he shouldn't face any serious charges, he should still face serious charges?

pacearrow02

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Re: Rittenhouse Volume 2
« Reply #53 on: November 10, 2021, 08:18:16 PM »
Hm, this makes it sound like you haven't been following closely.  The first two guys definitely chased him.  The first had mental issues (was just released from the hospital) and lunged at him, the second chased him and hit him with a skateboard.  The guy armed with a gun was the least threatening.  He had his hands up in the air just after Rittenhouse shot the second guy, but then when Rittenhouse pointed the gun at him, and re-racked it, he lowered his arms and pointed his gun - then was shot.  Who was acting in self defense?

So, it may *all* be self defense, but the "other" dude with a gun wasn't the threatening one.   I have lots of questions about shooting someone hitting you with a skateboard and whether shooting him is within "self defense", but since he wasn't present (obviously) I think the jury will side with self defense.  My gut is that the emotion of hearing a real human testify, even if he had a gun, will qualify as attempted homicide. 

Regardless, I expect the sentencing to be light regardless of the verdict.  He's a dumb kid that didn't have the necessary training to handle himself or that gun in that situation.  People (that were "volunteering" with Rittenhouse) also testified that he didn't seem comfortable, and he was carrying the gun in a hostile way - basically saying if he had the right training this never would have happened - they were worried about him.

So if the guy armed with the gun would have fired first and killed Rittenhouse that he should have been charged with murder?

pacearrow02

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Re: Rittenhouse Volume 2
« Reply #54 on: November 10, 2021, 08:20:13 PM »
So if the evidence shows he shouldn't face any serious charges, he should still face serious charges?

Haha, exactly. If someone breaks into your house and your shoot them and get away with it that’s only going to lead to more people buying guns to protect their homes damn it!!!

forgetful

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Re: Rittenhouse Volume 2
« Reply #55 on: November 10, 2021, 08:32:04 PM »
So if the evidence shows he shouldn't face any serious charges, he should still face serious charges?

Rittenhouse illegally possessed a weapon. He's a criminal. The overhead video shows he chased the first victim. I'd argue the evidence shows he should face serious charges, just the prosecution botched this as bad as they could.

What this should change is the laws. The crime for Rittenhouse possessing the weapon should be raised to a felony. Then, he'd be guilty of homicide since a person was killed during the commission of a felony.

Haha, exactly. If someone breaks into your house and your shoot them and get away with it that’s only going to lead to more people buying guns to protect their homes damn it!!!

Yeah, because that's what happened here.

What happened here would be more closely aligned with me showing up in your work parking lot, claiming I'm protecting the cars, armed to the teeth and the moment someone looked at me strange or said something to me, chase them. Then, if they turn and stop at all shoot them 3 times including once in the back. Then claim self defense, because I was scared you were turning to take my gun.

CountryRoads

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Re: Rittenhouse Volume 2
« Reply #56 on: November 10, 2021, 08:35:02 PM »
True.  The 5 mins of the prosecutor's questions I heard on the radio was bizarre.  Although, I'm surprised Rittenhouse took the stand.  But this you were not threatened /"no one shot at you" narrative was seriously ridiculous from the attorney.  So, you can only defend yourself after someone shoots?  WTF?  I agree the kid shouldn't have been there or had a rifle but there was never anything close to a 1st degree homicide case.  And the fact is there were a plethora of people that shouldn't have been there and exacerbated the situation.

The prosecution has zero case and it’s showing at every turn. Just goes to show you that it’s not about the truth and only about getting a conviction.

Many people are having a hard time with this case because they already made up their minds about it when the incident happened without knowing anything about it whatsoever. Now when actual facts and testimony are given, you can start to hear the propaganda engine starting up with things like: “judge is bad”, etc

forgetful

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Re: Rittenhouse Volume 2
« Reply #57 on: November 10, 2021, 08:35:29 PM »
Anyone know why they didn't charge him with negligent homicide. Illegally possessing a firearm would seem like an obvious "reckless" use of a weapon.

MuggsyB

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Re: Rittenhouse Volume 2
« Reply #58 on: November 10, 2021, 08:39:56 PM »
Rittenhouse illegally possessed a weapon. He's a criminal. The overhead video shows he chased the first victim. I'd argue the evidence shows he should face serious charges, just the prosecution botched this as bad as they could.

What this should change is the laws. The crime for Rittenhouse possessing the weapon should be raised to a felony. Then, he'd be guilty of homicide since a person was killed during the commission of a felony.

Yeah, because that's what happened here.

What happened here would be more closely aligned with me showing up in your work parking lot, claiming I'm protecting the cars, armed to the teeth and the moment someone looked at me strange or said something to me, chase them. Then, if they turn and stop at all shoot them 3 times including once in the back. Then claim self defense, because I was scared you were turning to take my gun.

He will likely get charged for illegally possessing the firearm.  Homicide charges are a different story. Were there other criminals in Kenosha or Minneapolis who should be charged for a variety of illegal activity? 

Fluffy Blue Monster

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Re: Rittenhouse Volume 2
« Reply #59 on: November 10, 2021, 08:45:59 PM »
He will likely get charged for illegally possessing the firearm.  Homicide charges are a different story. Were there other criminals in Kenosha or Minneapolis who should be charged for a variety of illegal activity? 

Yes. But that’s an irrelevant question anyway.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.”  -Clarence Darrow

jficke13

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Re: Rittenhouse Volume 2
« Reply #60 on: November 10, 2021, 08:47:27 PM »
One thing that this has underscored is that the internet discourse is an awful place to find interpretation of trial practice.

forgetful

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Re: Rittenhouse Volume 2
« Reply #61 on: November 10, 2021, 08:48:22 PM »
He will likely get charged for illegally possessing the firearm.  Homicide charges are a different story. Were there other criminals in Kenosha or Minneapolis who should be charged for a variety of illegal activity?

The fact is, he committed a crime that directly led to the deaths of 3 people. He is celebrated by a lot of people on that align with his political beliefs and the vigilante type. He went out to bars and leveraged that celebrity.

To those who align with those types, they will read this as proof that you can be a vigilante. It will make things worse.

The part that I just don't understand though, is the overhead video clearly shows Rittenhouse as the armed aggressor, chasing an unarmed man. That should immediately nullify any claim of self defense.

MuggsyB

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Re: Rittenhouse Volume 2
« Reply #62 on: November 10, 2021, 08:49:22 PM »
Yes. But that’s an irrelevant question anyway.

I'm responding to his statement that "he's a criminal" but your point  is well taken Fluffy. 

pacearrow02

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Re: Rittenhouse Volume 2
« Reply #63 on: November 10, 2021, 08:50:42 PM »
Rittenhouse illegally possessed a weapon. He's a criminal. The overhead video shows he chased the first victim. I'd argue the evidence shows he should face serious charges, just the prosecution botched this as bad as they could.

What this should change is the laws. The crime for Rittenhouse possessing the weapon should be raised to a felony. Then, he'd be guilty of homicide since a person was killed during the commission of a felony.

Yeah, because that's what happened here.

What happened here would be more closely aligned with me showing up in your work parking lot, claiming I'm protecting the cars, armed to the teeth and the moment someone looked at me strange or said something to me, chase them. Then, if they turn and stop at all shoot them 3 times including once in the back. Then claim self defense, because I was scared you were turning to take my gun.

You’re analogy is not at all what happened in the Rittenhouse case.  You’re obviously not following along with the trial.

MuggsyB

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Re: Rittenhouse Volume 2
« Reply #64 on: November 10, 2021, 08:56:54 PM »
The fact is, he committed a crime that directly led to the deaths of 3 people. He is celebrated by a lot of people on that align with his political beliefs and the vigilante type. He went out to bars and leveraged that celebrity.

To those who align with those types, they will read this as proof that you can be a vigilante. It will make things worse.

The part that I just don't understand though, is the overhead video clearly shows Rittenhouse as the armed aggressor, chasing an unarmed man. That should immediately nullify any claim of self defense.

Just so I understand your point of view..... your opinion is that he drove to Kenosha, armed and hoping to kill BLM protesters, because he's an ardent white supremacist, and saw an  opportunity?  I honestly don't see it but have not followed the trial closely. 

We have.a legal system forgetful.  What happened was very unfortunate and absolutely could have been avoided.   I agree he had no business being there and was illegally carrying a weapon.  However, charging him with first degree homicide is an entirely different animal based on the facts I am aware of in this case.

CountryRoads

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Re: Rittenhouse Volume 2
« Reply #65 on: November 10, 2021, 08:58:16 PM »
Lebron James tweets about the Rittenhouse case:

What tears????? I didn’t see one. Man knock it off! That boy ate some lemon heads before walking into court. 🤣🤣🤣

Pakuni

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Re: Rittenhouse Volume 2
« Reply #66 on: November 10, 2021, 09:10:12 PM »
Not surprisingly you are the only one I’ve seen with this take.  Every legal analyst on Court TV said they’ve never seen anything like it, but what do they know I guess.

Sure they did, Cheeksaloop.

forgetful

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Re: Rittenhouse Volume 2
« Reply #67 on: November 10, 2021, 09:21:40 PM »
Just so I understand your point of view..... your opinion is that he drove to Kenosha, armed and hoping to kill BLM protesters, because he's an ardent white supremacist, and saw an  opportunity?  I honestly don't see it but have not followed the trial closely. 

We have.a legal system forgetful.  What happened was very unfortunate and absolutely could have been avoided.   I agree he had no business being there and was illegally carrying a weapon.  However, charging him with first degree homicide is an entirely different animal based on the facts I am aware of in this case.

Yeah, not what I said at all.

Time for me to retire from this thread.

MuggsyB

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Re: Rittenhouse Volume 2
« Reply #68 on: November 10, 2021, 09:27:13 PM »
Yeah, not what I said at all.

Time for me to retire from this thread.

I apologize and admit I haven't been following the trial.  However, I don't understand your basis for charging him with anything beyond the illegal possession of the weapon.  All I'm saying is what is the actual evidence in this case?

forgetful

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Re: Rittenhouse Volume 2
« Reply #69 on: November 10, 2021, 09:36:14 PM »
I apologize and admit I haven't been following the trial.  However, I don't understand your basis for charging him with anything beyond the illegal possession of the weapon.  All I'm saying is what is the actual evidence in this case?

I'm super super far from a legal expert myself. I'm going off the first encounter. The overhead video shows Rittenhouse as the aggressor and chasing the ultimate victim. In my opinion you can't claim self defense if you are the armed aggressor. The prosecution botched this point though. That's it.

Now seriously retiring from this thread, as I really don't have anything useful to contribute.

edit. Not angry/upset. Just try to do a better job of not going down rabbit holes where I don't have things to contribute.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2021, 09:41:51 PM by forgetful »

MuggsyB

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Re: Rittenhouse Volume 2
« Reply #70 on: November 10, 2021, 09:39:17 PM »
I'm super super far from a legal expert myself. I'm going off the first encounter. The overhead video shows Rittenhouse as the aggressor and chasing the ultimate victim. In my opinion you can't claim self defense if you are the armed aggressor. The prosecution botched this point though. That's it.

Now seriously retiring from this thread, as I really don't have anything useful to contribute.

Okay.  I didn't mean to make you angry.  I'm just unaware of this overhead video and what it conclusively shows. 

TSmith34

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Re: Rittenhouse Volume 2
« Reply #71 on: November 10, 2021, 09:45:42 PM »
The prosecution has zero case and it’s showing at every turn. Just goes to show you that it’s not about the truth and only about getting a conviction.

Many people are having a hard time with this case because they already made up their minds about it when the incident happened without knowing anything about it whatsoever. Now when actual facts and testimony are given, you can start to hear the propaganda engine starting up with things like: “judge is bad”, etc
Regardless of anyone's thoughts on the case one way or the other, the judge IS objectively bad. Holy crap, what a nutter.

MuggsyB

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Re: Rittenhouse Volume 2
« Reply #72 on: November 10, 2021, 09:50:44 PM »
Regardless of anyone's thoughts on the case one way or the other, the judge IS objectively bad. Holy crap, what a nutter.

I missed it.  Why is he a disaster?

pacearrow02

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Re: Rittenhouse Volume 2
« Reply #73 on: November 10, 2021, 11:11:37 PM »
I missed it.  Why is he a disaster?

Because TSmith read it on Twitter Muggsy, duh!

Uncle Rico

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Re: Rittenhouse Volume 2
« Reply #74 on: November 11, 2021, 04:29:46 AM »
Regardless of anyone's thoughts on the case one way or the other, the judge IS objectively bad. Holy crap, what a nutter.

He is a nutter.  It’s been well documented
Tis a shame, 'tis a rotton shame, for if ye can enjoy the walkin’ ye can probably enjoy the other times in yer life when ve're in between. And that's most o' the time; wouldn't ye say?