Vaccinations & Antibodies

[JWags85]

Wags

I stated back in Feb '19 that the Chinese locking Wuhan was either the biggest overreaction or they knew something was really bad. There is too much smoke around Omicron and it has my attention. #1 Wall Street guys are rich for a reason and they seemed a bit spooked, #2 Israel does not play games and they are taking this seriously, #3 Moderna CEO's comments, #4 Multiple countries are banning incoming flights from southern Africa and #5 the origin of Omicron has me concerned. Many other things have caught my attention on this variant and I am afraid we do not want this cat out of the bag.

Totally fair.  And in totality I get it.  Just always gonna be cagey when it comes to biotech/pharma CEOs with volatile stocks who move a TON on speculation/news/rumor

[TSmith34, Inc.]

A full year in advance?  Can you tell me who's gonna win the 22 world series?   

I predict the New York Giants in 5, with one game being a tie.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

I predict the New York Giants in 5, with one game being a tie.

Just dropped $100 on 700-1 odds at Onieda.

[MU82]

Omicron Prompts Swift Reconsideration of Boosters Among Scientists -- Many public health experts were opposed to a boosters-for-all approach. The new variant is changing some minds.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/01/health/covid-omicron-booster-shots.html?campaign_id=4&emc=edit_dk_20211202&instance_id=46795&nl=dealbook&regi_id=108420427&segment_id=75899&te=1&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa

As recently as last week, many public health experts were fiercely opposed to the Biden administration’s campaign to roll out booster shots of the coronavirus vaccines to all American adults. There was little scientific evidence to support extra doses for most people, the researchers said.

The Omicron variant has changed all that.

Scientists do not yet know with any certainty whether the virus is easier to spread or less vulnerable to the body’s immune response. But with dozens of new mutations, the variant seems likely to evade the protection from vaccines to some significant degree.

Booster shots clearly raise antibody levels, strengthening the body’s defenses against infection, and may help offset whatever advantages Omicron has gained through evolution.

Many of the experts who were opposed to boosters now believe that the shots may offer the best defense against the new variant. The extra doses may slow the spread, at least, buying time for vaccine makers to develop an Omicron-specific formulation, if needed.

“Based on what we know about the potential for immune evasion, I would err on the side of giving the booster,” said Dr. Celine Gounder, an infectious disease specialist at Bellevue Hospital Center who had opposed the Biden administration’s boosters-for-all push.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

The administration has to stop f*cking around the messaging around this.  It is maddening.  Frankly the issues with the President and the CDC not being on the same page are still bad.  Maybe not Trump-era bad, but its causing confusion.

[Its DJOver]

Signed up to get my booster yesterday and the Walgreens website said that I can only get an additional shot of the vaccine that I had already received (the only way you could pick your booster was if your original was J&J). I had been operating under the assumption that mixing was likely to have more broad coverage, is this not the case? I’m still getting the booster no questions asked (3X Pfizer), but it seemed weird that they clearly had both Pfizer and Moderna but were limiting people on their choices. Someone that knows more about this than me have an explanation?

[cheebs09]

Signed up to get my booster yesterday and the Walgreens website said that I can only get an additional shot of the vaccine that I had already received (the only way you could pick your booster was if your original was J&J). I had been operating under the assumption that mixing was likely to have more broad coverage, is this not the case? I’m still getting the booster no questions asked (3X Pfizer), but it seemed weird that they clearly had both Pfizer and Moderna but were limiting people on their choices. Someone that knows more about this than me have an explanation?

I got Moderna after having Pfizer for the first two shots. That seems to be a Walgreens specific thing as CVS didn’t have that restriction.

[Goose]

Getting my booster Saturday morning before the game.

[jesmu84]

The administration has to stop f*cking around the messaging around this.  It is maddening.  Frankly the issues with the President and the CDC not being on the same page are still bad.  Maybe not Trump-era bad, but its causing confusion.

Agreed. CDC booster guidance has been a cluster

[JWags85]

The administration has to stop f*cking around the messaging around this.  It is maddening.  Frankly the issues with the President and the CDC not being on the same page are still bad.  Maybe not Trump-era bad, but its causing confusion.

Yep goes back to what I said awhile ago, science is ever changing and evolving as is what the medical professionals know about the virus, which is great, but that doesn't mean that has to all be shotgunned out to the public in real time.

You had "boosters may not be necessary for everyone" floating around as vax hesistancy was still too damn high, and then all of a sudden you start to hear generalities about "2 shots may no longer be considered vaxxed".  Its just a quagmire of messaging.  And I don't even have a problem with the booster, I got it, but wait until you're ready for a firm declaration before making public statements.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Yep goes back to what I said awhile ago, science is ever changing and evolving as is what the medical professionals know about the virus, which is great, but that doesn't mean that has to all be shotgunned out to the public in real time.

You had "boosters may not be necessary for everyone" floating around as vax hesistancy was still too damn high, and then all of a sudden you start to hear generalities about "2 shots may no longer be considered vaxxed".  Its just a quagmire of messaging.  And I don't even have a problem with the booster, I got it, but wait until you're ready for a firm declaration before making public statements.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/sallypipes/2021/10/11/mixed-messaging-on-boosters-leaves-americans-dazed-and-confused/?sh=4faaf0085bb0

[mu_hilltopper]

I got Moderna after having Pfizer for the first two shots. That seems to be a Walgreens specific thing as CVS didn’t have that restriction.

I did the same, two Pfizers, one Moderna, at CVS.

I dunno about other Walgreens, but the one near us is extremely poorly run. 

CVS is miles ahead of them in terms of service, it's not even close.

[4everwarriors]

They are both chitty stores. Filthy, dark, run down, and depressin'. Might just be a Bay thang, hey?

[warriorchick]

I did the same, two Pfizers, one Moderna, at CVS.

I dunno about other Walgreens, but the one near us is extremely poorly run. 

CVS is miles ahead of them in terms of service, it's not even close.

My primary care provider says to keep it the same, so I am a triple Moderna.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Any early word on which is better against the omicron?

[forgetful]

Any early word on which is better against the omicron?

Moderna would likely still be ever so slightly better. Largely/likely because of the higher dosage.

But all will almost assuredly suffer in terms of efficacy. The question at this point is how much. And, will omicron be as/more/or less virulent.

Regardless, your best bet to avoid severe disease is to be vaccinated.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

Any early word on which is better against the omicron?

I was reading a summary this morning (maybe from the NY Times) that the latest from South Africa, is that all the vaccines appear to still have the same effectiveness.

[forgetful]

I was reading a summary this morning (maybe from the NY Times) that the latest from South Africa, is that all the vaccines appear to still have the same effectiveness.

I would be pretty surprised if that were true.

The most optimistic data I've seen is that if you are doubly vaccinated and received your booster, you will see about 5-10% lower efficacy than 2-doses gave you against Delta.

That's still great news, ~90% efficacy if you've gotten a booster.

The bad news, is they have seen even young otherwise healthy, vaccinated (J&J), hospitalized.

[pacearrow02]

I would be pretty surprised if that were true.

The most optimistic data I've seen is that if you are doubly vaccinated and received your booster, you will see about 5-10% lower efficacy than 2-doses gave you against Delta.

That's still great news, ~90% efficacy if you've gotten a booster.

The bad news, is they have seen even young otherwise healthy, vaccinated (J&J), hospitalized.

https://mobile.twitter.com/TheInsiderPaper/status/1466816422122864647

[pacearrow02]

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/dutch-covid-19-quarantine-ends-most-safrica-passengers-authorities-2021-12-02/

Seems to be a lot of reports coming out showing vaccination doesn’t do squat in preventing transmission of the variant.  If it ends up being successful in preventing hospitalization/death then can we finally stop tracking case counts.  Obama had it right with the swine flu, just stop tracking positive cases if 99% of cases lead to minor illness.

[Warriors4ever]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/03/italian-man-tries-to-dodge-covid-vaccine-wearing-fake-arm?CMP=twt_a-world_b-gdnworld&fbclid=IwAR28cAT09su3_8JYnkjkUMaWKxekW10j_Xt9O-aELRL-7VRwfk1ioJh3BYA

The lengths people will go to…

[forgetful]

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/dutch-covid-19-quarantine-ends-most-safrica-passengers-authorities-2021-12-02/

Seems to be a lot of reports coming out showing vaccination doesn’t do squat in preventing transmission of the variant. 

I mentioned I would be surprised if the vaccines were as effective as against previous versions.

My belief, based on the actual location of the variants is that the vaccines will not be nearly as effective in preventing illness, and less effective at preventing serious illness (unless this is a milder strain). The only question is where the % efficacy lies.

But saying it doesn't do squat, is also inaccurate, especially when based off the limited data we currently have. We are finding out more every day, but the bottom line is COVID isn't done messing with our daily lives.

[tower912]

It never was.   

[forgetful]

It never was.   

You and I are in agreement. Sadly, way too many still think it is over.

I'm hoping that vaccination AND prior infection might be enough to keep this strain at bay.

[Warriors4ever]

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/dec/03/liberal-senator-alex-antic-taken-into-sa-hotel-quarantine-and-denies-misleading-pm-on-vaccination

This is great. Check out the picture. Australian Senator being escorted by the police out of the airport and into hotel quarantine. The Prime Minister was under the impression he was vaccinated. He refused to disclose his status at the airport and had been granted an exemption given to unvaccinated travelers allowing him to return to his province on condition he enter hotel quarantine.