MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => COVID-19 => Topic started by: The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole on October 30, 2021, 07:10:01 AM
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https://www.cbsnews.com/news/vaccine-protection-covid-19-natural-immunity-cdc-study/
Vaccinations offer more protection than natural immunity. Hope we can put that talking point to rest.
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The CDC hits a new low
Alex Berenson 19 min ago
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(I didn’t think it was possible either.)
But yesterday the Centers for Disease Control, America’s not-at-all-politicized public health agency, released a new study purporting to show that vaccination protects against Covid infection better than natural immunity. Of course, a wave of stories about the benefits of mRNA vaccination followed.
To do this, the CDC used some magic statistical analysis to turn inside raw data that actually showed almost four times as many fully vaccinated people being hospitalized with Covid as those with natural immunity - and FIFTEEN TIMES as many over the summer.
I kid you not.
Further, the study runs contrary to a much larger paper from Israeli researchers in August.
As my two-year-old likes to say, How dey do dat?
Well, the Israeli study drew on a meaningful dataset in a meaningful way to reach meaningful conclusions. It counted infections (and hospitalizations) in a large group of previously infected people against an equally large and balanced group of vaccinated people, then made moderate adjustments for clearly defined risk factors.
It found that vaccinated people were 13 times as likely to be infected - and 7 times as likely to be hospitalized - as unvaccinated people with natural immunity.
(SOURCE: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v1.full-text)
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In contrast - how do I put this politely? - the CDC study is meaningless gibberish that would never have been published if the agency did not face huge political pressure to get people vaccinated.
Let’s take a look.
The study had a bizarre design.
The agency’s researchers looked at 200,000 people who had been hospitalized with “Covid-like” illnesses from January through August in nine states. Right away, this choice sets up the study in a problematic way; for most of that time, people who had received Covid vaccines believed (because the CDC and others told them) that they were at VERY low risk of getting Covid, and certainly symptomatic Covid. Thus they may have been less likely to go to the hospital at all, or be tested for Covid once they arrived.
But put that aside.
Then the researchers decided to compare two groups - people who had definitely had Covid at least 90 days before and received another Covid test around the time of their hospitalization and people who had been fully vaccinated at least 90 days (but no more than 180 days) before and received a Covid test around the time of their hospitalization.
This choice is also bizarre. Those of you who have been paying attention will know that this date range is designed to make the vaccines look as good as possible by testing in the happy vaccine valley, the short period when mRNA vaccines are at maximum effectiveness (in fact, they are probably starting to lose it by the sixth month).
But more importantly, this criteria excluded the VAST majority of the people hospitalized with Covid-like illnesses or tested for Covid.
Only about 1,000 people out of the 200,000 people hospitalized for Covid-like illnesses over the eight months had a previous documented Covid infection. (Given the fact that at least 20 percent of Americans, and probably more like 40 percent, had had Covid by the spring of 2021, this is a strikingly small percentage - and certainly doesn’t suggest long Covid is much of a threat.)
And only 89 of those 1,020 people with natural immunity tested positive. In contrast, 324 out of the 6,328 vaccinated people who met the study’s criteria tested positive.
But isn’t 324 more than 89?
It sure is. And the CDC didn’t have - or didn’t publish - figures on how many people were actually in the two groups - those with natural immunity and those infected. Instead it compared the PERCENTAGE OF POSITIVE TESTS in the two groups.
But why would the percentage of positive tests matter, when we don’t know how many people were actually at risk?
Great question.
But, amazingly, the statistical manipulation then got even worse.
The natural immunity group had an 8.7 percent positive test rate. The fully vaccinated group had a 5.1 percent positive test rate. So the natural immunity group was about 1.7 times as likely to test positive. (1.7 * 5.1 = about 8.7.)
With such a small number of people in the natural immunity group, that raw “rate ratio” may well have failed to reach statistical significance. (We don’t know, because the CDC didn’t provide an unadjusted odds ratio with 95% boundaries - something I have never seen before in any paper.)
Instead, the CDC provided only a risk ratio that it had adjusted with a variety of factors, including “facility characteristics [and] sociodemographic characteristics.”
And finally, the CDC’s researchers got a number that they could publish - hospitalized people who had previously been infected were five times as likely to have a positive Covid test as people who were fully vaccinated. Never mind that there were actually four times as many people in the second group.
Science!
By the way, buried at the bottom of report is some actual data. And it’s bad.
The CDC divided the hospitalizations into pre- and post-Delta - January through June and June through August.
Interestingly, the number of hospitalized people with natural immunity actually fell sharply over the summer, as Delta took off. About 14 people per month were hospitalized in the winter and spring, compared to six per month from June through August. (Remember, this is a large sample, with hospitals in nine states.)
But the number of VACCINATED people being hospitalized soared - from about three a month during the spring to more than 100 a month during the Delta period. These vaccinated people still were less than 180 days from their second dose, so they should have been at or near maximum immunity - suggesting that Delta, and not the time effect, played an important role in the loss of protection the vaccine offered.
Now that’s a finding worth pursuing.
Don’t worry, the CDC will get right on it.
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Isn’t Alex Berenson a mystery writer?
I guess we should see what Stephen King thinks of the study too!
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Isn’t Alex Berenson a mystery writer?
I guess we should see what Stephen King thinks of the study too!
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/04/pandemics-wrongest-man/618475/
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https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/04/pandemics-wrongest-man/618475/
Thanks for posting. Berenson has been horribly, awfully wrong about EVERYTHING to do with the pandemic. You can rest assured that reality is the opposite of everything he has proclaimed.
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Thanks for posting. Berenson has been horribly, awfully wrong about EVERYTHING to do with the pandemic. You can rest assured that reality is the opposite of everything he has proclaimed.
Agreed. I'm now dumber for reading the post above by wheresthecake.
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I'm actually glad Wheresthecake posted that by Berensen. It tells me everything I need to know about Wheresthecake. It's helpful when people loudly and clearly demonstrate they have nothing of value to offer the conversation and can be safely ignored.
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But the sad thing is that people like him are hoodwinked by people like Berenson.
Just get vaccinated.
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But the sad thing is that people like him are hoodwinked by people like Berenson.
Just get vaccinated.
Hoodwinked is a great description. I think Berenson knows better but he is making bank playing to the morons that watch Fox News.
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Maybe Cake could do us small a favor and give us OAN’s opinion as well. ::)
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https://twitter.com/TristanSnell/status/1455258984772997120
This isn't about you. Either get with it or get the unnatural carnal knowledge out of the way.
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Wait, you're telling me it was an entirely fabricated moral panic designed mostly to drive traffic to media sites and also to engender sympathy for police unions? Nooooooo. Not possible.
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https://brownstone.org/articles/a-review-and-autopsy-of-two-covid-immunity-studies/
“Concerning the Covid recovered, there are two key public health issues. 1. Would the Covid recovered benefit from also being vaccinated? 2. Should there be vaccine passports and mandates that require them to be vaccinated in order to work and participate in society?
The CDC study did not address the first question, while the Israeli study showed a small but not statistically significant benefit in reducing symptomatic Covid disease. Future studies will hopefully shed more light on this issue.
Based on the solid evidence from the Israeli study, the Covid recovered have stronger and longer-lasting immunity against Covid disease than the vaccinated. Hence, there is no reason to prevent them from activities that are permitted to the vaccinated. In fact, it is discriminatory.
Many of the Covid recovered were exposed to the virus as essential workers during the height of the pandemic before vaccines were available. They kept the rest of society afloat, processing food, delivering goods, unloading ships, picking up garbage, policing the streets, maintaining the electricity network, putting out fires, and caring for the old and sick, to name a few.
They are now being fired and excluded despite having stronger immunity than the vaccinated work-from-home administrators that are firing them.”
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Per usual truth is found somewhere in between the Berenson take and the scoop take.
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https://brownstone.org/articles/a-review-and-autopsy-of-two-covid-immunity-studies/
“Concerning the Covid recovered, there are two key public health issues. 1. Would the Covid recovered benefit from also being vaccinated? 2. Should there be vaccine passports and mandates that require them to be vaccinated in order to work and participate in society?
The CDC study did not address the first question, while the Israeli study showed a small but not statistically significant benefit in reducing symptomatic Covid disease. Future studies will hopefully shed more light on this issue.
Based on the solid evidence from the Israeli study, the Covid recovered have stronger and longer-lasting immunity against Covid disease than the vaccinated. Hence, there is no reason to prevent them from activities that are permitted to the vaccinated. In fact, it is discriminatory.
Many of the Covid recovered were exposed to the virus as essential workers during the height of the pandemic before vaccines were available. They kept the rest of society afloat, processing food, delivering goods, unloading ships, picking up garbage, policing the streets, maintaining the electricity network, putting out fires, and caring for the old and sick, to name a few.
They are now being fired and excluded despite having stronger immunity than the vaccinated work-from-home administrators that are firing them.”
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Per usual truth is found somewhere in between the Berenson take and the scoop take.
Why are you getting covid advice on scoop? Why are you getting covid advice from Alex Berenson. The only conclusion I can surmise is, you’re not very bright.
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Why are you getting covid advice on scoop? Why are you getting covid advice from Alex Berenson. The only conclusion I can surmise is, you’re not very bright.
Ok??
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https://brownstone.org/articles/a-review-and-autopsy-of-two-covid-immunity-studies/
“Concerning the Covid recovered, there are two key public health issues. 1. Would the Covid recovered benefit from also being vaccinated? 2. Should there be vaccine passports and mandates that require them to be vaccinated in order to work and participate in society?
The CDC study did not address the first question, while the Israeli study showed a small but not statistically significant benefit in reducing symptomatic Covid disease. Future studies will hopefully shed more light on this issue.
Based on the solid evidence from the Israeli study, the Covid recovered have stronger and longer-lasting immunity against Covid disease than the vaccinated. Hence, there is no reason to prevent them from activities that are permitted to the vaccinated. In fact, it is discriminatory.
Many of the Covid recovered were exposed to the virus as essential workers during the height of the pandemic before vaccines were available. They kept the rest of society afloat, processing food, delivering goods, unloading ships, picking up garbage, policing the streets, maintaining the electricity network, putting out fires, and caring for the old and sick, to name a few.
They are now being fired and excluded despite having stronger immunity than the vaccinated work-from-home administrators that are firing them.”
———————————————————————
Per usual truth is found somewhere in between the Berenson take and the scoop take.
Yes. I am sure that one of the early advocates for going the route of herd immunity is a great resource on the effectiveness of vaccines v. those in Covid recovery.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Barrington_Declaration
And anyway, what exactly is the point? Regardless of whether or not Covid recovery gives you some modest degree of protection, vaccinations are safe, cheap and easy. I'm getting my booster tomorrow and its expected to take ten minutes out of my day. I get the flu shot every year even though I have gotten the flu in the past.
This hill people keep dying on with Covid is getting dumber and dumber by the minute. You'd think that people who have been continuously wrong would stop making stands at some point...
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Yes. I am sure that one of the early advocates for going the route of herd immunity is a great resource on the effectiveness of vaccines v. those in Covid recovery.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Barrington_Declaration
And anyway, what exactly is the point? Regardless of whether or not Covid recovery gives you some modest degree of protection, vaccinations are safe, cheap and easy. I'm getting my booster tomorrow and its expected to take ten minutes out of my day. I get the flu shot every year even though I have gotten the flu in the past.
This hill people keep dying on with Covid is getting dumber and dumber by the minute. You'd think that people who have been continuously wrong would stop making stands at some point...
Some insist their ignorance outweighs the greater good
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Yes. I am sure that one of the early advocates for going the route of herd immunity is a great resource on the effectiveness of vaccines v. those in Covid recovery.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Barrington_Declaration
And anyway, what exactly is the point? Regardless of whether or not Covid recovery gives you some modest degree of protection, vaccinations are safe, cheap and easy. I'm getting my booster tomorrow and its expected to take ten minutes out of my day. I get the flu shot every year even though I have gotten the flu in the past.
This hill people keep dying on with Covid is getting dumber and dumber by the minute. You'd think that people who have been continuously wrong would stop making stands at some point...
Well the data points to the people who you suggest being wrong might not actually be wrong. The point is the mandates and restrictions being put on folks who either have natural antibodies or who don’t but have personally determined they are very low risk for severe disease and for whatever reason are hesitant to take the vaccine but are being treated as second class citizens.
The flu shot is not mandated by schools, by most employers, and is taken by 50-60% of the population annually so if you want the Covid vaccine to be viewed and treated similarly to the flu shot then let it be, that’s all I’ve been arguing for. I take the annual flu shot, I’m fully vaccinated for Covid because I made those decisions and felt they were best for me. But there are no flu shot passports, mandates, etc so why should there be Covid ones?
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But there are no flu shot passports, mandates, etc so why should there be Covid ones?
Only really dumb people still try to equate COVID to the flu.
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Well the data points to the people who you suggest being wrong might not actually be wrong. The point is the mandates and restrictions being put on folks who either have natural antibodies or who don’t but have personally determined they are very low risk for severe disease and for whatever reason are hesitant to take the vaccine but are being treated as second class citizens.
The flu shot is not mandated by schools, by most employers, and is taken by 50-60% of the population annually so if you want the Covid vaccine to be viewed and treated similarly to the flu shot then let it be, that’s all I’ve been arguing for. I take the annual flu shot, I’m fully vaccinated for Covid because I made those decisions and felt they were best for me. But there are no flu shot passports, mandates, etc so why should there be Covid ones?
Good let's get back to comparing Covid to the flu. Is it march 2020 again? Because I'd really like to have held my shares of novavax and invest in dogecoin
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Well the data points to the people who you suggest being wrong might not actually be wrong. The point is the mandates and restrictions being put on folks who either have natural antibodies or who don’t but have personally determined they are very low risk for severe disease and for whatever reason are hesitant to take the vaccine but are being treated as second class citizens.
The flu shot is not mandated by schools, by most employers, and is taken by 50-60% of the population annually so if you want the Covid vaccine to be viewed and treated similarly to the flu shot then let it be, that’s all I’ve been arguing for. I take the annual flu shot, I’m fully vaccinated for Covid because I made those decisions and felt they were best for me. But there are no flu shot passports, mandates, etc so why should there be Covid ones?
There should be.
There are mandates for MMR vaccines. Being anti-mandate simply makes you a useful idiot for Machiavellian actors in our political system who do not care what the impact on society or lives is so long as they have a winning wedge issue.
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Many of the Covid recovered were exposed to the virus as essential workers during the height of the pandemic before vaccines were available. They kept the rest of society afloat, processing food, delivering goods, unloading ships, picking up garbage, policing the streets, maintaining the electricity network, putting out fires, and caring for the old and sick, to name a few.
They are now being fired and excluded despite having stronger immunity than the vaccinated work-from-home administrators that are firing them.”
This is awesome, characterizing Joe Sixpack that's against a vaccine "cuz microchips etc." alongside the frontline workers <clap>
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Trolls gonna troll. Promoting vaccine hesitancy. The strategy has certainly worked for the right wing. Well, except for the dead ones.
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Okay, which one of you anti vax A-holes gave Covid to Aaron Rodgers?
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Okay, which one of you anti vax A-holes gave Covid to Aaron Rodgers?
Pretty sure it was a Bears fan.
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Pretty sure it was a Bears fan.
Rams are having a good year... made some big trades... Shailene Woodley is from San Bernadino...
I believe I've connected all the dots I need to.
This is a joke, btw.
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The flu shot is not mandated by schools, by most employers, and is taken by 50-60% of the population annually so if you want the Covid vaccine to be viewed and treated similarly to the flu shot then let it be,
I never said that.
But there are no flu shot passports, mandates, etc so why should there be Covid ones?
::) ::) ::)
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Okay, which one of you anti vax A-holes gave Covid to Aaron Rodgers?
Probably the packers back office to finally get Jordan Love some time
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Probably the packers back office to finally get Jordan Love some time
That one could get some legs! ;D
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Pretty sure it was a Bears fan.
Clearly the guy that handled Braun’s sample.
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If reports are true and Rodgers wasn't vaccinated, then the NFL should suspend him.
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Okay, which one of you anti vax A-holes gave Covid to Aaron Rodgers?
Stolen from elsewhere on the internet:
even sitting at home with COVID he'd still be able to beat the Bears. 😂
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If reports are true and Rodgers wasn't vaccinated, then the NFL should suspend him.
"immunized", not vaccinated.
Rodgers: " "I think I like to learn about everything that I'm doing"
Now you get your chance!
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If reports are true and Rodgers wasn't vaccinated, then the NFL should suspend him.
An interesting track will be if he or Khris Middleton have a longer or more difficult recovery from COVID as both just tested positive and we know Khris, by all accounts probably vaccinated, is exhibiting symptoms, we haven’t heard that about Rodgers yet.
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An interesting track will be if he or Khris Middleton have a longer or more difficult recovery from COVID as both just tested positive and we know Khris, by all accounts probably vaccinated, is exhibiting symptoms, we haven’t heard that about Rodgers yet.
Delta's a bit of a bitch.
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https://www.channel3000.com/dhs-children-ages-5-11-now-able-to-get-covid-19-vaccine-in-wisconsin/
DHS: Children ages 5-11 now able to get COVID-19 vaccine in Wisconsin
Hopefully we can get kids vaccinated and be done with this.
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Got the Moderna booster yesterday, after an original J&J shot. Headache and tired this morning. Arm is a bit sore.
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Delta's a bit of a bitch.
Was vaxxed in late April (Pfizer), caught it last month. Sickest I can remember ever being. Was virtually useless for a week and a half. Nonstop headache, chills, fever, soreness. Couldn’t eat. Only relief was a hot shower or bath. Got the antibodies since they called and said based on my health or blood type or something I qualified. So I obviously can’t get booster for a bit.
Or…could have just said “+1”
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From the NYT:
When Tyson Foods announced in August that it would require coronavirus vaccines for its entire work force, it was arguably the boldest corporate vaccine mandate at the time. Several companies already required vaccines for white-collar employees, but labor shortages made most reluctant to do the same for frontline workers, who were less likely to be vaccinated and most likely to be exposed to the virus.
Since Tyson announced its mandate, about 60,500 workers have gotten the shot, meaning that more than 96 percent of the company’s work force is now vaccinated. DealBook’s Lauren Hirsch went to a Tyson plant in Arkansas to hear about the lessons that Tyson’s leaders learned. Their experience is relevant for employers just getting to grips with the Biden administration’s soon-to-be-enacted rules that will mandate vaccines or weekly testing.
Taking risks can pay off. Executives rarely like to be the first to take bold actions, especially without data to support them. “We made the decision to do the mandate, fully understanding that we were putting our business at risk,” said Donnie King, Tyson’s C.E.O.
But it was also bad for business when Tyson had to shut facilities because of virus outbreaks. King began to consider a mandate in July, only a month into the job. Tyson modeled what vaccination rates it thought it could achieve and how many employees might quit. “We literally counted the cost,” King said, deciding in the end to take a calculated risk and impose the mandate.
The power of choice goes both ways. Tyson had spent six months trying to encourage employees to get vaccinated ahead of the mandate, so it knew what made them resistant to a requirement. “Part of it is, ‘I just simply don’t want you telling me what to do,” King said. “I’ve gotten a death threat posted on a bathroom wall in one of our plants.”
But several Tyson employees told DealBook that when the company removed the choice from them, it was a relief. Diana Eike, an administrative assistant at Tyson’s automation center, wasn’t planning to get the vaccine, and after Tyson announced the mandate, she was mad at first. Now, she is grateful: Tyson “took the burden off of me making the choice,” she said.
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The bolded part was especially interesting IMHO. I wonder how many people felt that way and were relieved when their employers mandated the vaccine.
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Was vaxxed in late April (Pfizer), caught it last month. Sickest I can remember ever being. Was virtually useless for a week and a half. Nonstop headache, chills, fever, soreness. Couldn’t eat. Only relief was a hot shower or bath. Got the antibodies since they called and said based on my health or blood type or something I qualified. So I obviously can’t get booster for a bit.
Or…could have just said “+1”
Coming up on my one year anniversary of going through it. You have my sympathy and empathy. Glad you made it through.
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Wife and I have our booster shots tomorrow. We're the last in our friend's group to get them.
The friends with children are over the moon that the kids can finally get vaccinated. It's already cold/flu seaso so it's one less thing for them to worry about.
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Coming up on my one year anniversary of going through it. You have my sympathy and empathy. Glad you made it through.
Appreciate it! Glad I didn’t find out how hard it would hit me if I didn’t get the vaccine. Definitely planning on getting the booster when I’m able to do so.
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Was vaxxed in late April (Pfizer), caught it last month. Sickest I can remember ever being. Was virtually useless for a week and a half. Nonstop headache, chills, fever, soreness. Couldn’t eat. Only relief was a hot shower or bath. Got the antibodies since they called and said based on my health or blood type or something I qualified. So I obviously can’t get booster for a bit.
Or…could have just said “+1”
Glad you got through it. Could have been a lot worse if you hadn't gotten the vaccine, so I'm sure glad you did.
Stay well!
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https://www.channel3000.com/dhs-children-ages-5-11-now-able-to-get-covid-19-vaccine-in-wisconsin/
DHS: Children ages 5-11 now able to get COVID-19 vaccine in Wisconsin
Hopefully we can get kids vaccinated and be done with this.
Best to leave kids out of this mess. Sweden had very little COVID difficulty in their daycares with very few intervention steps taken.
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Best to leave kids out of this mess. Sweden had very little COVID difficulty in their daycares with very few intervention steps taken.
Or, by vaccinating them, you remove a transmission vector from the population and reduce the odds that anyone encounters the virus in the first place. There's no "mess" to be had here.
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Or, by vaccinating them, you remove a transmission vector from the population and reduce the odds that anyone encounters the virus in the first place. There's no "mess" to be had here.
Tell that to those women and girls experiencing period irregularities or fertility issues, which will undoubtedly continue to crop up.
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Tell that to those women and girls experiencing period irregularities or fertility issues, which will undoubtedly continue to crop up.
I'll block my schedule to address the concerns of the literally uncountable number of people with the issues you describe.
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Was vaxxed in late April (Pfizer), caught it last month. Sickest I can remember ever being. Was virtually useless for a week and a half. Nonstop headache, chills, fever, soreness. Couldn’t eat. Only relief was a hot shower or bath. Got the antibodies since they called and said based on my health or blood type or something I qualified. So I obviously can’t get booster for a bit.
Or…could have just said “+1”
I’m sorry about your breakthrough case. You should be glad you can’t get a booster soon, you’re willingly exposing yourself again if you do, good chance you’d get flu like symptoms from the booster itself so soon after natural infection.
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I waited 92 days after I stopped being symptomatic to get my first Pfizer.
And statnik, the vast majority of reported cases of menstrual irregularity show it lasts one cycle before returning to normal. It is currently being investigated. The prevailing theory is that it is a short term immune relayed response. Keep sciencing.
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Best to leave kids out of this mess. Sweden had very little COVID difficulty in their daycares with very few intervention steps taken.
Oh boy, I thought the "Let's be like Sweden" people went away last summer.
Oh, and the American Acadcemy of Pediatrics says there is zero evidence the vaccine causes infertility.
https://www.aap.org/en/pages/2019-novel-coronavirus-covid-19-infections/covid-19-vaccine-for-children/about-the-covid-19-vaccine-frequently-asked-questions/
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Oh boy, I thought the "Let's be like Sweden" people went away last summer.
Oh, and the American Acadcemy of Pediatrics says there is zero evidence the vaccine causes infertility.
https://www.aap.org/en/pages/2019-novel-coronavirus-covid-19-infections/covid-19-vaccine-for-children/about-the-covid-19-vaccine-frequently-asked-questions/
Most likely cognitive dissonance but go ahead and trust that they have every reason to investigate the claims and that they’ve done their due diligence.
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Current evidence suggests the virus is more likely than the vaccine to produce infertility. Death, too, for that matter.
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Most likely cognitive dissonance but go ahead and trust that they have every reason to investigate the claims and that they’ve done their due diligence.
"Alexa, define Dunning-Krueger effect"
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Current evidence suggests the virus is more likely than the vaccine to produce infertility. Death, too, for that matter.
Even if this is all correctly reported, that doesn’t diminish that it should be up to a family and their child’s personal choice and situation at that age, with other side effects having been reported.
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Even if this is all correctly reported, that doesn’t diminish that it should be up to a family and their child’s personal choice and situation at that age, with other side effects having been reported.
No child is being vaccinated against his or her parents' wishes.
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I’m sorry about your breakthrough case. You should be glad you can’t get a booster soon, you’re willingly exposing yourself again if you do, good chance you’d get flu like symptoms from the booster itself so soon after natural infection.
Getting my booster in 2 days. Your bad information is bad.
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Getting my booster in 2 days. You're bad information is bad.
Your
Boom roasted
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The third Pfizer shot was the easiest of the three for me. And combined they were less trouble than one hour of what I went through a year ago.
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Your
Boom roasted
Caught me before my quick edit!
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Even if this is all correctly reported, that doesn’t diminish that it should be up to a family and their child’s personal choice and situation at that age, with other side effects having been reported.
We're giving children as young as 5 personal choice in the matter? Are we giving them that same autonomy in every aspect of their lives?
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The third Pfizer shot was the easiest of the three for me. And combined they were leas trouble than one hour of what I went through a year ago.
Concurred. Hardly any side effects after my first two Pfizer shots.
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We're giving children as young as 5 personal choice in the matter? Are we giving them that same autonomy in every aspect of their lives?
I, for one, look forward to Kindergartners rushing to get minecraft tattoos with their newfound liberty.
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I, for one, look forward to Kindergartners rushing to get minecraft tattoos with their newfound liberty.
I second this, I don't see a way giving 5yr olds body autonomy goes wrong.
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We're giving children as young as 5 personal choice in the matter? Are we giving them that same autonomy in every aspect of their lives?
Did you read, I said along with their parents (and doctor for that matter) but really if the left uses minors to tout climate change issues then why shouldn’t children be able to jointly discuss and decide on chemicals that go into their own body with limited personal benefit for most of them?
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Did you read, I said along with their parents (and doctor for that matter) but really if the left uses minors to tout climate change issues then why shouldn’t children be able to jointly discuss and decide on chemicals that go into their own body with limited personal benefit for most of them?
WHATABOUTTHISGUYS?
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WHATABOUTTHISGUYS?
Ah, well since he's pointed out a different, unrelated thing, then perhaps he was right all along. Glad we settled that.
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Apparently parents should be happy if their kids are excited about getting the vaccine but if they’re not they’re idiots? The former are comments I see from some parents on FB, giving their kids autonomy from what it sounds like.
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Apparently parents should be happy if their kids are excited about getting the vaccine but if they’re not they’re idiots? The former are comments I see from some parents on FB, giving their kids autonomy from what it sounds like.
He's on a roll, really making sense now. Facebook groups have entered the chat. What else did you learn from popular social networking site and repository of knowledge, facebook?
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Apparently parents should be happy if their kids are excited about getting the vaccine but if they’re not they’re idiots? The former are comments I see from some parents on FB, giving their kids autonomy from what it sounds like.
Dinosaurs never existed
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I’m sorry about your breakthrough case. You should be glad you can’t get a booster soon, you’re willingly exposing yourself again if you do, good chance you’d get flu like symptoms from the booster itself so soon after natural infection.
People like this 1. Graduated from Marquette, and 2. Are the reason we are still in this mess.
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Getting my booster in 2 days. Your bad information is bad.
Please let us know if you experience any menstrual irregularities afterwards.
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I just heard this afternoon that my company is most likely becoming "vaccine mandated". We thought the order didn't apply because we're only 30 persons at our location, but apparently it applies to sum of all the divisions in a corporation. Corporate gave my company President the heads up.
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People like this 1. Graduated from Marquette, and 2. Are the reason we are still in this mess.
It’s doubtful I would apply for today’s version of MU, I hardly recognize it from just 10-15 years ago.
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Please stop the allusions and just say what you want to say.
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It’s doubtful I would apply for today’s version of MU, I hardly recognize it from just 10-15 years ago.
Don’t worry. If your intelligence is indicated by anything you’ve expressed in this topic, you wouldn’t get in anyway.
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Please stop the allusions and just say what you want to say.
They teach things like “science.”
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Don’t worry. If your intelligence is indicated by anything you’ve expressed in this topic, you wouldn’t get in anyway.
I’m definitely too independent thinking for the university now, I obviously wasn’t when I attended though.
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I’m definitely too independent thinking for the university now, I obviously wasn’t when I attended though.
Massive eye roll
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independent = I only trust rando facebook freaks
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I’m definitely too independent thinking for the university now, I obviously wasn’t when I attended though.
Be specific. Explain your thought process and cite your sources.
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It’s doubtful I would apply for today’s version of MU, I hardly recognize it from just 10-15 years ago.
I was there from 13-8years ago. You're either full of BS or lived your whole college career in a thought echo chamber (which actually does describe a lot of the people I knew during our overlapping time)
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independent = I only trust rando facebook freaks
Lol I was using that as a joke since it’s mostly liberally educated parents most likely who are happy that their children are so gullible to the COVID talking points.
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Lol I was using that as a joke since it’s mostly liberally educated parents most likely who are happy that their children are so gullible to the COVID talking points.
Well, at least you're aware that you're gullible to the anti-vax talking points. It's a starting point!
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Interestingly enough, was talking with a recent MU grad who said the student body has gotten significantly more conservative recently.
But I guess that 5jey still teach science and factual information isn’t conservative enough for some folks.
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Kids wearing seat belts should be up to the kids and their parents.
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It’s doubtful I would apply for today’s version of MU, I hardly recognize it from just 10-15 years ago.
Liberty is always looking for 'students'.
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I’m definitely too independent thinking for the university now, I obviously wasn’t when I attended though.
Please tell me you’re a dentist.
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Kids wearing seat belts should be up to the kids and their parents.
Do seatbelts give you side effects and have to be replaced every four to six months? I think not.
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Do seatbelts give you side effects and have to be replaced every four to six months? I think not.
They wrinkle my clothes and I have to put them on every time I drive.
Got my booster yesterday. Other than being a little tired and having a sore arm, I am good.
Small price to pay to keep society safe. Including those who are ignorant.
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Lol I was using that as a joke since it’s mostly liberally educated parents most likely who are happy that their children are so gullible to the COVID talking points.
Says the guy that uses Facebook anecdotes as his scientific basis.
I'm convinced a large percentage of the anti-vaxxers have the capacity to understand the science, but have instead chosen to live in their world of alternative facts purely due to political orientation. Th power of propaganda, writ large.
Oh well, if you stupid unnatural carnal knowledges want to be 12 times more likely to die from a COVID infection, no can stop you, can they?
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Do seatbelts give you side effects and have to be replaced every four to six months? I think not.
The crosses we must bear to <checks notes> mitigate the effects of a pandemic that has claimed the lives of millions of people, leaving shattered families and devastated businesses in its wake. Yeah I guess when you put "gotta go to Walgreens to get a shot every so often and then be a little run down for 24 hours" on the scale against widespread death and disability, you're right. Probably not worth the trouble.
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COVID in America has killed the equivalent of the populations of either Vermont or Wyoming or Alaska.
You be you.
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The crosses we must bear to <checks notes> mitigate the effects of a pandemic that has claimed the lives of millions of people, leaving shattered families and devastated businesses in its wake. Yeah I guess when you put "gotta go to Walgreens to get a shot every so often and then be a little run down for 24 hours" on the scale against widespread death and disability, you're right. Probably not worth the trouble.
We do this and there are still loads of breakthrough cases worse than my case being unvaccinated, but the world acts like the vaccinated have free reign and can’t spread.
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We do this and there are still loads of breakthrough cases worse than my case being unvaccinated, but the world acts like the vaccinated have free reign and can’t spread.
So since they are not 100% effective, and no one has ever claimed that they were, therefore we shouldn't follow the scientific evidence and get vaccinated as well as boostered?
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We do this and there are still loads of breakthrough cases worse than my case being unvaccinated, but the world acts like the vaccinated have free reign and can’t spread.
Look, clearly you've made up your mind so obviously nothing we say would ever change your mind. There could be millions of people who've safely received the vaccine (far more than would ever have been part of a non-emergency phase 3 trial), the vaccine could show significant efficacy in preventing serious disease or death, there could be an easy and logical explanation for why breakthrough infections exist (circulating antibodies fade over time leaving the immune response primed via memory T/B cells that require exposure and infection to trigger antibody production--hence the "breakthrough but not as severe" pattern), there could be clear and obvious patterns where hospital burdens are reduced in communities with high-vaccination rates, and none of these things would matter to you.
When decisions are made purely via pathos, no appeal to logos will have any effect.
I just hope that, generally speaking, people who make their decisions based on pathos primarily take the time to step back, detach from the immediacy of what's eliciting the impassioned response, and critically consider the observable outcomes.
It's trite, but the meme of the person online saying something like "look, I've discovered something that all the world's doctors have missed" is telling.
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We do this and there are still loads of breakthrough cases worse than my case being unvaccinated, but the world acts like the vaccinated have free reign and can’t spread.
Hope you're using essential oils, or maybe smudging with sage. Whatever you scientifically illiterate folks get up to these days.
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We do this and there are still loads of breakthrough cases worse than my case being unvaccinated, but the world acts like the vaccinated have free reign and can’t spread.
Yup, breakthrough cases, just like predicted when the vaccine came in. That whole 95% effective thing. Along with anti-bodies diminishing over time, and pre-existing co-morbidities that make even the vaccinated more susceptible.
I think the solution for you is to go volunteer maskless at a hospital or nursing home. I am sure they would appreciate your assistance.
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Yup, breakthrough cases, just like predicted when the vaccine came in. That whole 95% effective thing. Along with anti-bodies diminishing over time, and pre-existing co-morbidities that make even the vaccinated more susceptible.
I think the solution for you is to go volunteer maskless at a hospital or nursing home. I am sure they would appreciate your assistance.
He’s not volunteering unless something is in it for him
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So since they are not 100% effective, and no one has ever claimed that they were, therefore we shouldn't follow the scientific evidence and get vaccinated as well as boostered?
There was a majority compliance with initial vaccination but you’re not you going to find the same consensus with boosters, I know very few in my family who got the initial jab(s) are going to be fine with consistent boosters so they are going to effectively be unvaccinated shortly if not already. Btw they are far from 100% unless you get boostered every four months.
I think the Pfizer antiviral pill may be more likely to effectively end the pandemic than any vaccine once it becomes readily available because it doesn’t have to be taken preemptively.
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My firefighter just texted me. Great young guy, has been working with me since July of 2020. Three boys under the age of 8. He lost his mother to COVID in May of 2020 and has been very conscientious about his masking up and gowning up. Got both his vaccines last spring. He is married to an NICU nurse who is anti-vaxx.
His text to me was: (my wife) tested positive for the VID. When is the right time to tell an anti-vaxxer 'I told you so?'
I responded after she had recovered and when he really wants some couch time. What say you all?
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Do seatbelts give you side effects and have to be replaced every four to six months? I think not.
Seatbelts have been known to cause death and severe burns in some accidents which wouldn't have caused significant injury otherwise.
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My firefighter just texted me. Great young guy, has been working with me since July of 2020. Three boys under the age of 8. He lost his mother to COVID in May of 2020 and has been very conscientious about his masking up and gowning up. Got both his vaccines last spring. He is married to an NICU nurse who is anti-vaxx.
His text to me was: (my wife) tested positive for the VID. When is the right time to tell an anti-vaxxer 'I told you so?'
I responded after she had recovered and when he really wants some couch time. What say you all?
How symptomatic, if at all, was she? If he says ‘I told you so’ after an asymptomatic or mild flu like experience I don’t think he will receive the desired response.
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There is never a desired response when you yell your wife 'I told you so. '
Conversely, if she is the one out of 60 that it kills, he may never get the chance.
And finally, she was symptomatic enough to feel the need to get tested.
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There is never a desired response when you yell your wife 'I told you so. '
Conversely, if she is the one out of 60 that it kills, he may never get the chance.
And finally, she was symptomatic enough to feel the need to get tested.
She works in Healthcare, she was probably forced to get tested regularly.
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There was a majority compliance with initial vaccination but you’re not you going to find the same consensus with boosters, I know very few in my family who got the initial jab(s) are going to be fine with consistent boosters so they are going to effectively be unvaccinated shortly if not already. Btw they are far from 100% unless you get boostered every four months.
First of all, where do you get four months? I got the booster yesterday after nearly eight months. Which is fine. If an booster every eight months, or even every four is recommended, it's hardly a burden.
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She works in Healthcare, she was probably forced to get tested regularly.
According to her husband, she got a fake vaccine card off the internet. You aren't winning.
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I get my flu shot every year. I’d probably make it through the flu fine, but would rather have the vaccine. I also do it to help protect my young daughter.
I don’t see how a Covid booster would be any different. I’ll get it as soon as I’m eligible. Seems to be a minor inconvenience for the benefit.
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I have assumed all along that there would be annual boosters similar to the flu shot. Whole lot of 'meh' as far as I am concerned.
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Last time I got the flu without the shot was right before a golden gloves semi final match in 2013 and I lost about 7lbs and it was horrible as I was already dehydrated. I haven't missed the flu shot since. I've gotten the flu, but haven't really gotten sick. That same mindset is what I have for the Covid vaccine. If I get sick bummer but I'll take my chances with the vaccine helping my defense than not.
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Yeah, last time I forewent the flu shot was about the same time and it knocked me out for a week. Such a small thing to do to keep healthy.
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I think the Pfizer antiviral pill may be more likely to effectively end the pandemic than any vaccine once it becomes readily available because it doesn’t have to be taken preemptively.
Define effectively end.
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I think the Pfizer antiviral pill may be more likely to effectively end the pandemic than any vaccine once it becomes readily available because it doesn’t have to be taken preemptively.
Why is orally taking a new drug better than getting vaccinated?
The anti-vax position just keeps getting less and less logical.
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Define effectively end.
Whatever he defines whenever he feels like it without the aid of any actual information.
Why is orally taking a new drug better than getting vaccinated?
The anti-vax position just keeps getting less and less logical.
Needles are scary I guess?
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I think the Pfizer antiviral pill may be more likely to effectively end the pandemic than any vaccine once it becomes readily available because it doesn’t have to be taken preemptively.
LOL. As I predicted in the other thread.
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Why is orally taking a new drug better than getting vaccinated?
The anti-vax position just keeps getting less and less logical.
Not defending all his inanity, but he did say it doesn't have to be preemptive. So maybe the idea of taking something as needed instead of "in case" is preferable? I don't know. I could see the argument, not that its an especially strong one.
Yeah, last time I forewent the flu shot was about the same time and it knocked me out for a week. Such a small thing to do to keep healthy.
Its funny, I was thinking about the flu vaccine. I never used to get it. All through my 20s and early 30s. I used to get a gnarly cold or two in the winter, but I hadn't gotten the flu for a long time. But my now wife had been a pretty consistent acquirer of the flu. So I was cajoled into getting the flu shot for her (not in small part because she's unbearable when she's sick ;D). So completely unintentionally, I was sort of partaking and experiencing some of the general sentiment and gist of why everyone should be getting COVID vaccines.
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Hope you're using essential oils, or maybe smudging with sage. Whatever you scientifically illiterate folks get up to these days.
HCQ, livestock paste, gargling Bactine.
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Why is orally taking a new drug better than getting vaccinated?
The anti-vax position just keeps getting less and less logical.
Well the new drug costs more and the vaccines are dirt cheap, so maybe's he's just looking out for PFE's earnings reports.
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Not defending all his inanity, but he did say it doesn't have to be preemptive. So maybe the idea of taking something as needed instead of "in case" is preferable? I don't know. I could see the argument, not that its an especially strong one.
I guess I think that not catching the disease is better than catching it and taking a preemptive. Why would someone face with those two choices, choose the latter?
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Seatbelts have been known to cause death and severe burns in some accidents which wouldn't have caused significant injury otherwise.
Same with airbags.
My dashboard, my choice!
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I guess I think that not catching the disease is better than catching it and taking a preemptive. Why would someone face with those two choices, choose the latter?
Because there’s a chance you wouldn’t need anything foreign in your body. I’d rather get a mild case (which is what I believe I did a month ago) vs expose my body to the vaccine effects initially (even if mild) and get sick again with the oh so common breakthrough infection. And if you have such a good immune system you get an asymptomatic case then all the better.
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How can one be sure it would only be a mild case?
You can’t.
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How can one be sure it would only be a mild case?
You can’t.
You can’t be sure but based on risk profile and being smart about wearing masks for example in high risk areas it can be pretty close to certain.
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Based on risk profile one would just take the vaccine.
But that’s not why you are posting here.
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Because there’s a chance you wouldn’t need anything foreign in your body. I’d rather get a mild case (which is what I believe I did a month ago) vs expose my body to the vaccine effects initially (even if mild) and get sick again with the oh so common breakthrough infection. And if you have such a good immune system you get an asymptomatic case then all the better.
A virus is "foreign in your body." Furthermore, a oral therapeutic, an aspirin, tylenol, etc. are all "foreign in your body."
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oh so common breakthrough infection.
Define and support this statement.
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A virus is "foreign in your body." Furthermore, a oral therapeutic, an aspirin, tylenol, etc. are all "foreign in your body."
When you take the vaccine you have a 100% chance of putting something foreign in your body, if you avoided doing so there’s a chance you wouldn’t. It’s called logic, and with the number of breakthroughs lately you’re quite likely getting this foreign entity, in a different manner, twice.
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When you take the vaccine you have a 100% chance of putting something foreign in your body, if you avoided doing so there’s a chance you wouldn’t. It’s called logic, and with the number of breakthroughs lately you’re quite likely getting this foreign entity, in a different manner, twice.
Can you answer my questions?
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When you take the vaccine you have a 100% chance of putting something foreign in your body, if you avoided doing so there’s a chance you wouldn’t. It’s called logic, and with the number of breakthroughs lately you’re quite likely getting this foreign entity, in a different manner, twice.
When you take a therapeutic, or an aspirin, or a shot of whiskey, you "have a 100% chance of putting something foreign in your body."
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When you take a therapeutic, or an aspirin, or a shot of whiskey, you "have a 100% chance of putting something foreign in your body."
He’s living on recycled sweat, urine, dead skin cells and fecal matter.
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Who knew that the movie Idiocracy could be used as a documentary so soon.
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When you take a therapeutic, or an aspirin, or a shot of whiskey, you "have a 100% chance of putting something foreign in your body."
We know a heck of a lot more about those than we do about a vaccine that’s been in use for less than a year.
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We know a heck of a lot more about those than we do about a vaccine that’s been in use for less than a year.
Again, what do you need to know? Hundreds of millions of people have gotten the vaccine. There are few side affects, and its ability to protect people from Covid is incredible.
I could understand hesitancy a year ago. Now? Not at all.
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Again, what do you need to know? Hundreds of millions of people have gotten the vaccine. There are few side affects, and its ability to protect people from Covid is incredible.
I could understand hesitancy a year ago. Now? Not at all.
Side effects are more common than reported, just look at how the NBA was trying to keep one of their players quiet when he claimed the vaccine precipitated heart issues that threatened his career.
Look up Brandon Goodwin.
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Side effects are more common than reported, just look at how the NBA was trying to keep one of their players quiet when he claimed the vaccine precipitated heart issues that threatened his career.
Look up Brandon Goodwin.
Basing personal decisions on anecdotal stories, versus data from a significant volume of cases, is pretty illogical.
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Basing personal decisions on anecdotal stories, versus data from a significant volume of cases, is pretty illogical.
When you have a clearly defined agenda trying to be pushed you pretty much have to rely on anecdotes because the media is doing its best to ignore the negative stories and flaws of the vaccine.
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When you have a clearly defined agenda trying to be pushed you pretty much have to rely on anecdotes because the media is doing its best to ignore the negative stories and flaws of the vaccine.
What “agenda?” And I see we are blaming “the media” now.
Playing all the hits I see.
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What “agenda?” And I see we are blaming “the media” now.
Playing all the hits I see.
Pace Sparrow Brain
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I found statnik's Twitter handle
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FDilutWWEAAnqjj?format=jpg&name=small)
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Is Statnik the same poster as Pace? Pace seems to vanish a bit and now we have Statnik posting The Who's who of unfounded claims/data and claiming to be the only one that sees the truth.
Same story...different poster. Or same story...same poster.
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Is Statnik the same poster as Pace? Pace seems to vanish a bit and now we have Statnik posting The Who's who of unfounded claims/data and claiming to be the only one that sees the truth.
Same story...different poster. Or same story...same poster.
It’s actually an IP licensed to an A. Rodgers in Brown County
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When you take the vaccine you have a 100% chance of putting something foreign in your body, if you avoided doing so there’s a chance you wouldn’t. It’s called logic, and with the number of breakthroughs lately you’re quite likely getting this foreign entity, in a different manner, twice.
When you breathe, eat, drink, etc you have a 100% chance of putting something foreign in your body. It's called logic.
Just admit you have no idea what you're talking about.
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Side effects are more common than reported, just look at how the NBA was trying to keep one of their players quiet when he claimed the vaccine precipitated heart issues that threatened his career.
Look up Brandon Goodwin.
You do realize that correlation does not equal causation, right? A certain part of the population has undiagnosed heart conditions.
Look up Isaiah Austin, et al.
Drawing a straight line between the vaccine and a newly found heart condition is stupidity of the highest degree.
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You do realize that correlation does not equal causation, right? A certain part of the population has undiagnosed heart conditions.
Look up Isaiah Austin, et al.
Drawing a straight line between the vaccine and a newly found heart condition is stupidity of the highest degree.
Hank Gathers collapsed on a basketball court.
Ipso fatso, basketball causes cardiomyopathy.
I mean, that's science!
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Side effects are more common than reported, just look at how the NBA was trying to keep one of their players quiet when he claimed the vaccine precipitated heart issues that threatened his career.
Look up Brandon Goodwin.
He had blood clots. Athletes are at higher risk for them, period. Correlation is not causation.
See this link. 2015, 2 active NBA players, and a retired NBA players developed blood clots in the lungs in a span of 3-weeks. Were they giving our COVID vaccines in 2015?
https://www.stoptheclot.org/news/three-nba-players-affected-by-blood-clots-in-recent-weeks/
(https://www.stoptheclot.org/news/three-nba-players-affected-by-blood-clots-in-recent-weeks/)
What you are seeing here, is a person looking or a reason for "why me," and then blaming a vaccine, when it is just bad look and normal statistical probabilities in the NBA population. If anything, we've seen fewer of these cases lately than statistically expected in that population.
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When you have a clearly defined agenda trying to be pushed you pretty much have to rely on anecdotes because the media is doing its best to ignore the negative stories and flaws of the vaccine.
Hopefully you weren’t a sheeple and set your clock back an hour. Why should you do what the government tells you? Media pushing their fall back agenda!
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You do realize that correlation does not equal causation, right? A certain part of the population has undiagnosed heart conditions.
Look up Isaiah Austin, et al.
Drawing a straight line between the vaccine and a newly found heart condition is stupidity of the highest degree.
Well then the same should apply when heart related issues are a part of deaths when patients are also found to have COVID, but only recently have some of these deaths been revised to be ‘with COVID instead of ‘from COVID’. It has to be admitted it works both ways. The fact that he had these blood clot issues shortly after the vaccine definitely makes it pretty likely it’s vaccine related.
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Well then the same should apply when heart related issues are a part of deaths when patients are also found to have COVID, but only recently have some of these deaths been revised to be ‘with COVID instead of ‘from COVID’. It has to be admitted it works both ways. The fact that he had these blood clot issues shortly after the vaccine definitely makes it pretty likely it’s vaccine related.
Expected death stats show we are very likely undercounting Covid deaths.
Any other softballs you want to toss up there?
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Hopefully you weren’t a sheeple and set your clock back an hour. Why should you do what the government tells you? Media pushing their fall back agenda!
I guess if that’s the direction you want to go I might as well live in my own world off the land since I’d be missing all the events that constitute a normal life. It’s a bad comparison to not taking the vaccine, I’ll leave it at that.
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I guess if that’s the direction you want to go I might as well live in my own world off the land since I’d be missing all the events that constitute a normal life. It’s a bad comparison to not taking the vaccine, I’ll leave it at that.
How old are you? Do you have children, how old?
Serious questions, I know you don't like to answer my questions, but this isn't calling out your terrible takes.
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My kids (5 and 8) got their first dose today. No post shot symptoms today.
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My kids (5 and 8) got their first dose today. No post shot symptoms today.
Did your 5G improve?
Seriously, good for 5hem, good for you!
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Well then the same should apply when heart related issues are a part of deaths when patients are also found to have COVID, but only recently have some of these deaths been revised to be ‘with COVID instead of ‘from COVID’. It has to be admitted it works both ways. The fact that he had these blood clot issues shortly after the vaccine definitely makes it pretty likely it’s vaccine related.
Ah, Hello Jamie.
Long time, no see.
How many sock accounts did you seed?
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The fact that he had these blood clot issues shortly after the vaccine definitely makes it pretty likely it’s vaccine related.
60% of deaths occur after being hospitalized. Thus, hospitals cause death.
See how stupid this sounds?
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From the NY Times Morning Brief below. It has facts and data, thus won't sway the vaccine shade-throwers, but you all are doing a great job at killing yourselves. Or rather, listening uncritically to those telling you lies for their own gain.
"As 2020 wound down, there were good reasons to believe that the death toll during the pandemic’s first year might have been worse in red America. There were also good reasons to think it might have been worse in blue America.
<snip>
But it turned out that these differences largely offset each other in 2020 — or maybe they didn’t matter as much as some people assumed. Either way, the per capita death toll in blue America and red America was similar by the final weeks of 2020.
Then the vaccines arrived.
They proved so powerful, and the partisan attitudes toward them so different, that a gap in Covid’s death toll quickly emerged. I have covered that gap in two newsletters — one this summer, one last month — and today’s newsletter offers an update.
The brief version: The gap in Covid’s death toll between red and blue America has grown faster over the past month than at any previous point.
In October, 25 out of every 100,000 residents of heavily Trump counties died from Covid, more than three times higher than the rate in heavily Biden counties (7.8 per 100,000). October was the fifth consecutive month that the percentage gap between the death rates in Trump counties and Biden counties widened.
Some conservative writers have tried to claim that the gap may stem from regional differences in weather or age, but those arguments fall apart under scrutiny. (If weather or age were a major reason, the pattern would have begun to appear last year.) The true explanation is straightforward: The vaccines are remarkably effective at preventing severe Covid, and almost 40 percent of Republican adults remain unvaccinated, compared with about 10 percent of Democratic adults.
This situation is a tragedy, in which irrational fears about vaccine side effects have overwhelmed rational fears about a deadly virus. It stems from disinformation — promoted by right-wing media, like Rupert Murdoch’s Fox News, the Sinclair Broadcast Group and online sources — that preys on the distrust that results from stagnant living standards."
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Singapore's Ministry of Health announces that unvaccinated individuals will have to pay for their own covid 19 medical care after December 8th
https://www.todayonline.com/singapore/dec-8-patients-unvaccinated-choice-must-foot-their-own-covid-19-medical-bills-moh
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Singapore's Ministry of Health announces that unvaccinated individuals will have to pay for their own covid 19 medical care after December 8th
https://www.todayonline.com/singapore/dec-8-patients-unvaccinated-choice-must-foot-their-own-covid-19-medical-bills-moh
Singapore was a bit dramatic in some of their COVID handling, which was repeatedly bemoaned to me by some friends/colleagues there, but this is great. All for it.
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just a little fwiw-friend of mine, a dentist, both jabs plus the booster just came down with covid...he did not get it during work...got it at a wedding
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just a little fwiw-friend of mine, a dentist, both jabs plus the booster just came down with covid...he did not get it during work...got it at a wedding
Good thing he got the booster. He should have much milder symptoms and case. Seems like a smart guy.
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https://mobile.twitter.com/kerpen/status/1458217232560005128
Hmmm, there’s a seasonality to Covid says Gov of CA, you don’t say. Don’t mention that on scoop though, you’ll get “dunked” on.
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https://mobile.twitter.com/kerpen/status/1458217232560005128
Hmmm, there’s a seasonality to Covid says Gov of CA, you don’t say. Don’t mention that on scoop though, you’ll get “dunked” on.
Actually, that's true. Have him post to scoop, we'll rip the guy to shreds.
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Actually, that's true. Have him post to scoop, we'll rip the guy to shreds.
“Rip him to shreds” = spew a collection of scoop echo chamber incorrect opinions.
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“Rip him to shreds” = spew a collection of scoop echo chamber incorrect opinions.
... :o
You should do a tally of everything you've posted since Feb 2020
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Hey, he's back. Now let's watch to see which sock puppets fall silent during his return.
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https://mobile.twitter.com/kerpen/status/1458217232560005128
Hmmm, there’s a seasonality to Covid says Gov of CA, you don’t say. Don’t mention that on scoop though, you’ll get “dunked” on.
This isn't why you got dunked on, but keep playing the victim.
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spew a collection of scoop echo chamber incorrect opinions.
Pretty much you're posting history, Jams.
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Hey, he's back. Now let's watch to see which sock puppets fall silent during his return.
He's really something. Not sure why we all don't just ignore such an obvious troll. I guess it's so easy to punch holes in everything he says that it's irresistible.
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Apologies if this has already been discussed.
I know most of you who post here are pro vax mandate as a requirement for employment.
What are your feelings about mandates for those who don’t work and receive welfare and/or unemployment? Should their benefits (or any other government subsidies) be contingent on being vaxxed?
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Apologies if this has already been discussed.
I know most of you who post here are pro vax mandate as a requirement for employment.
What are your feelings about mandates for those who don’t work and receive welfare and/or unemployment? Should their benefits (or any other government subsidies) be contingent on being vaxxed?
Sure, shots in arms.
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The more shots the merrier.
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Apologies if this has already been discussed.
I know most of you who post here are pro vax mandate as a requirement for employment.
What are your feelings about mandates for those who don’t work and receive welfare and/or unemployment? Should their benefits (or any other government subsidies) be contingent on being vaxxed?
Sure thing.
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Apologies if this has already been discussed.
I know most of you who post here are pro vax mandate as a requirement for employment.
What are your feelings about mandates for those who don’t work and receive welfare and/or unemployment? Should their benefits (or any other government subsidies) be contingent on being vaxxed?
In a sane world, there would be a national vaccine mandate.
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Apologies if this has already been discussed.
I know most of you who post here are pro vax mandate as a requirement for employment.
What are your feelings about mandates for those who don’t work and receive welfare and/or unemployment? Should their benefits (or any other government subsidies) be contingent on being vaxxed?
Of course.
But given how many anti-vaxxers are on welfare, that wouldn't be an easy nut to crack.
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Apologies if this has already been discussed.
I know most of you who post here are pro vax mandate as a requirement for employment.
What are your feelings about mandates for those who don’t work and receive welfare and/or unemployment? Should their benefits (or any other government subsidies) be contingent on being vaxxed?
When it comes to government requirements, I'm NOT pro vax mandate. I am pro vax OR regular testing mandate.
If a private organization wants to require vax (and not give a regular testing option) then that's their choice to make.
I further believe every government subsidy/benefit should be universal without means-testing or other requirements and that includes vaccines.
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When it comes to government requirements, I'm NOT pro vax mandate. I am pro vax OR regular testing mandate.
If a private organization wants to require vax (and not give a regular testing option) then that's their choice to make.
I further believe every government subsidy/benefit should be universal without means-testing or other requirements and that includes vaccines.
Yeah this is where I am as well. Unless it is in heath care, I am not for a workplace requirement for vaccination either.
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I further believe every government subsidy/benefit should be universal without means-testing or other requirements and that includes vaccines.
You're opposed to requiring farmers that receive agricultural subsidies from abiding by certain land-use practices? Or corporations that receive economic incentives or credits from meeting hiring quotas?
Or do you mean individual benefits only?
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Yeah this is where I am as well. Unless it is in heath care, I am not for a workplace requirement for vaccination either.
You know, we're living in a society.
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You're opposed to requiring farmers that receive agricultural subsidies from abiding by certain land-use practices? Or corporations that receive economic incentives or credits from meeting hiring quotas?
Or do you mean individual benefits only?
Correct. Individual benefits.
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You know, we're living in a society.
Yep. One that I believe is best served by giving people choices within certain parameters.
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Yep. One that I believe is best served by giving people choices within certain parameters.
Virtually nobody disagrees with this, and least not here. The difference is where we set the parameters.
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Yep. One that I believe is best served by giving people choices within certain parameters.
George Costanza would be disappointed in you.
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Virtually nobody disagrees with this, and least not here. The difference is where we set the parameters.
Right. I get that.
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When it comes to government requirements, I'm NOT pro vax mandate. I am pro vax OR regular testing mandate.
If a private organization wants to require vax (and not give a regular testing option) then that's their choice to make.
I further believe every government subsidy/benefit should be universal without means-testing or other requirements and that includes vaccines.
Technically, the Executive Order is mandated testing, with an exemption for vaccination.
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COVID-19 surge in many states, especially in the southwest, and mostly among the unvaccinated.
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COVID-19 surge in many states, especially in the southwest, and mostly among the unvaccinated.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/
Mostly in the Southwest??
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https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/
Mostly in the Southwest??
I had just heard an NPR report about how bad things were in Colorado and Arizona ... but thanks for supplying that link.
Yes, selfish and/or misinformed unvaccinated people from all across the United States -- but mostly from counties that voted for Trump -- continue to undermine efforts to return life to pre-pandemic normalcy.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/08/briefing/covid-death-toll-red-america.html
In October, 25 out of every 100,000 residents of heavily Trump counties died from Covid, more than three times higher than the rate in heavily Biden counties (7.8 per 100,000). October was the fifth consecutive month that the percentage gap between the death rates in Trump counties and Biden counties widened.
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Putting ivermectin in the drinking water like fluoride would fix that.
Tough to get it into wells, though.
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Got my booster yesterday. Went with Pfizer after having gotten Moderna for the first 2 last spring.
I read up on it extensively and most felt that the "mix and match" approach would either give the same protection vs serious covid or perhaps even a little more, so the advice was to just go with whatever was available. And at my local CVS, they had the Pfizer.
So far, no adverse reaction.
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In my state, Cops who contract COVID and die from it are deemed to have been killed in the line of duty. As a result they and their family get extensive benefits both from the state and federal level. All the while, most of them being anti-vax.
Meanwhile, teachers are vilified, and forced to teach regardless of prior health conditions, and in some cases and some states, are not allowed to even enforce a mask mandate. They contract and die of COVID and no one cares. Essentially shut up and teach.
Can anyone explain the logic of this to me.
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In my state, Cops who contract COVID and die from it are deemed to have been killed in the line of duty. As a result they and their family get extensive benefits both from the state and federal level. All the while, most of them being anti-vax.
Meanwhile, teachers are vilified, and forced to teach regardless of prior health conditions, and in some cases and some states, are not allowed to even enforce a mask mandate. They contract and die of COVID and no one cares. Essentially shut up and teach.
Can anyone explain the logic of this to me.
Hero worship of police due to propaganda. Not surprisingly because since 9/11 we treat them like members of the military. Which is absolutely ridiculous.
We've been dragging teachers through the mud for 50 years, so that part isn't surprising.
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Hero worship of police due to propaganda. Not surprisingly because since 9/11 we treat them like members of the military. Which is absolutely ridiculous.
We've been dragging teachers through the mud for 50 years, so that part isn't surprising.
87% of cops are male.
76% of teachers (and 89% of elementary school teachers) are female.
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In my state, Cops who contract COVID and die from it are deemed to have been killed in the line of duty. As a result they and their family get extensive benefits both from the state and federal level. All the while, most of them being anti-vax.
Meanwhile, teachers are vilified, and forced to teach regardless of prior health conditions, and in some cases and some states, are not allowed to even enforce a mask mandate. They contract and die of COVID and no one cares. Essentially shut up and teach.
Can anyone explain the logic of this to me.
And it has killed more of them than anything else the last 18 months.
Yes, tearing down the teachers has been a recurring theme for a long time.
And the anti-vaxxers are now doing it to health care workers.
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Hero worship of police due to propaganda. Not surprisingly because since 9/11 we treat them like members of the military. Which is absolutely ridiculous.
Except when they're in your way to stop the steal, then they're communist stormtroopers sent to put down real patriots.
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Hero worship of police due to propaganda. Not surprisingly because since 9/11 we treat them like members of the military. Which is absolutely ridiculous.
We've been dragging teachers through the mud for 50 years, so that part isn't surprising.
Which is ironic given how we treat military members after they complete their service
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Except when they're in your way to stop the steal, then they're communist stormtroopers sent to put down real patriots.
Hey man ... when you gotta get to Mike Pence to hang him, those commie cops better not get in the way. Law and order, don'tcha know?
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87% of cops are male.
76% of teachers (and 89% of elementary school teachers) are female.
90% of those incarcerated in the US are male
10% are female.
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In my state, Cops who contract COVID and die from it are deemed to have been killed in the line of duty. As a result they and their family get extensive benefits both from the state and federal level. All the while, most of them being anti-vax.
Meanwhile, teachers are vilified, and forced to teach regardless of prior health conditions, and in some cases and some states, are not allowed to even enforce a mask mandate. They contract and die of COVID and no one cares. Essentially shut up and teach.
Can anyone explain the logic of this to me.
Better union positioning I would imagine. Also, one is far more likely to die in the line of duty, thus provisions are more likely to be generous/standard for such a thing.
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90% of those incarcerated in the US are male
10% are female.
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/non%20sequitur
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Better union positioning I would imagine. Also, one is far more likely to die in the line of duty, thus provisions are more likely to be generous/standard for such a thing.
While this is undoubtedly true, I think the prevailing political narrative has been pro-police, and while not anti-teacher, has certainly not been supportive of education in a similar manner.
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While this is undoubtedly true, I think the prevailing political narrative has been pro-police, and while not anti-teacher, has certainly not been supportive of education in a similar manner.
I don't disagree. Just more speaking to why the risk benefits are unequal.
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https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/non%20sequitur
My meaningless statistic following your two meaningless statistics.
Just having a little fun.
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Hero worship of police due to propaganda.
BLM, riots, looting and a movement to defund them was all about hero worship? Maybe you have the police confused with somebody else.
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BLM, riots, looting and a movement to defund them was all about hero worship? Maybe you have the police confused with somebody else.
Actually, yes. The things you speak of all are direct results of decades of police malfeasance that's gone largely unchecked by a society that has fetishized law enforcement and given them ever-increasing powers without much question. Protests, riots, etc., are spontaneous events occurring without reason.
Contrary to the hero narrative, cops are just people doing a job. A difficult job. An important job. Occasionally a dangerous job. But still, a job. While some perform heroic actions, they're not heroes on account of their profession.
And we've made them that, to the degree that some people see it as a great affront to even criticize police (imagine being the kind of person who gets very upset about socks), to question their role in society or to question how much of our public resources should go to policing.
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Actually, yes. The things you speak of all are direct results of decades of police malfeasance that's gone largely unchecked by a society that has fetishized law enforcement and given them ever-increasing powers without much question. Protests, riots, etc., are spontaneous events occurring without reason.
Contrary to the hero narrative, cops are just people doing a job. A difficult job. An important job. Occasionally a dangerous job. But still, a job. While some perform heroic actions, they're not heroes on account of their profession.
And we've made them that, to the degree that some people see it as a great affront to even criticize police (imagine being the kind of person who gets very upset about socks), to question their role in society or to question how much of our public resources should go to policing.
Anybody who thinks cops are (because of their profession) heroes and above criticism is an idiot. In my entire life I’ve never once encountered anyone who espoused this.
And anybody who wants “dead cops now” or wants them defunded is an idiot. In my entire life I’ve never once encountered anyone who espouses this either.
I’m sure people like this exist but they are way on the fringes. Suggesting either attitude isn’t extremely rare is silly but it makes for a great strawmen.
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Anybody who thinks cops are (because of their profession) heroes and above criticism is an idiot. In my entire life I’ve never once encountered anyone who espoused this.
And anybody who wants “dead cops now” or wants them defunded is an idiot. In my entire life I’ve never once encountered anyone who espouses this either.
I’m sure people like this exist but they are way on the fringes. Suggesting either attitude isn’t extremely rare is silly but it makes for a great strawmen.
You need to get out more then, I guess. I know both types.
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My meaningless statistic following your two meaningless statistics.
Just having a little fun.
Nope. You countered his completely relevant stat, with a stat on an issue completely unrelated to the conversation.
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87% of cops are male.
76% of teachers (and 89% of elementary school teachers) are female.
Police protect mommy and daddy’s little angels. Mommy and Daddy’s little angels do bad in school because their teachers suck.
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Boosted on Wednesday. Had done two Pfizers, did a Moderna booster.
Was tired the next day, but that's all.
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Boosted on Wednesday. Had done two Pfizers, did a Moderna booster.
Was tired the next day, but that's all.
Hey, we can't say you're not trying. ;D
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If you are eligible for the booster, get it. It is going to be a long winter.
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If you are eligible for the booster, get it. It is going to be a long winter.
100% this. Also, if you've had COVID and haven't gotten vaccinated. Get vaccinated. If you are that worried about the vaccine. Ask for the 1/2 Moderna dose (booster).
Breakthrough Delta, or reinfection with delta is no walk in the park.
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Police protect mommy and daddy’s little angels. Mommy and Daddy’s little angels do bad in school because their teachers suck.
Said nobody ever.
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Said nobody ever.
You clearly are well past the child rearing stage of your life and probably have little exposure to parents of small children outside of your family. So why don’t you sit this one out?
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https://www.clarkcountytoday.com/news/israeli-study-shows-natural-immunity-delivers-13-times-more-protection-than-covid-vaccines/
At best it seems the science of vaccines vs natural immunity is unsettled, contrary to the CDC findings (though even their points are more emphasizing the wide variance of protection among the naturally immune, not that it’s inferior to vaccines. There was a similar result in an India study to this one that I’ll post in a moment.
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https://www.clarkcountytoday.com/news/israeli-study-shows-natural-immunity-delivers-13-times-more-protection-than-covid-vaccines/
At best it seems the science of vaccines vs natural immunity is unsettled, contrary to the CDC findings (though even their points are more emphasizing the wide variance of protection among the naturally immune, not that it’s inferior to vaccines. There was a similar result in an India study to this one that I’ll post in a moment.
What do you mean by "contrary to CDC findings." As you state, they haven't made a statement that vaccines are superior to natural immunity at all. They simply state that even if you have had Covid, you should be vaccinated because the level of protection varies with natural immunity.
So just get the shot and stop insinuating its not safe. It's completely safe for the vast, vast majority of people out there.
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https://www.clarkcountytoday.com/news/israeli-study-shows-natural-immunity-delivers-13-times-more-protection-than-covid-vaccines/
At best it seems the science of vaccines vs natural immunity is unsettled, contrary to the CDC findings (though even their points are more emphasizing the wide variance of protection among the naturally immune, not that it’s inferior to vaccines. There was a similar result in an India study to this one that I’ll post in a moment.
Why do you have a weekend and weekday account?
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https://www.clarkcountytoday.com/news/israeli-study-shows-natural-immunity-delivers-13-times-more-protection-than-covid-vaccines/
At best it seems the science of vaccines vs natural immunity is unsettled, contrary to the CDC findings (though even their points are more emphasizing the wide variance of protection among the naturally immune, not that it’s inferior to vaccines. There was a similar result in an India study to this one that I’ll post in a moment.
But, so what?
The researchers also say:
1. It's a terrible idea to intentionally become infected in hopes of natural immunity, because you're exposing yourself to the possibility of serious illness, hospitalization or even death.
2. The combination of vaccination and natural immunity is far better than just natural immunity, so people should get vaccinated regardless.
Lastly, while 13 times greater sounds like a lot, the numbers in the study are quite small.
For instance, the higher hospitalization rate in the 32,000-person analysis was based on just eight hospitalizations in a vaccinated group and one in a previously infected group. And the 13-fold increased risk of infection in the same analysis was based on just 238 infections in the vaccinated population, less than 1.5% of the more than 16,000 people, versus 19 reinfections among a similar number of people who once had SARS-CoV-2.
https://www.science.org/content/article/having-sars-cov-2-once-confers-much-greater-immunity-vaccine-vaccination-remains-vital
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But, so what?
The researchers also say:
1. It's a terrible idea to intentionally become infected in hopes of natural immunity, because you're exposing yourself to the possibility of serious illness, hospitalization or even death.
2. The combination of vaccination and natural immunity is far better than just natural immunity, so people should get vaccinated regardless.
Lastly, while 13 times greater sounds like a lot, the numbers in the study are quite small.
For instance, the higher hospitalization rate in the 32,000-person analysis was based on just eight hospitalizations in a vaccinated group and one in a previously infected group. And the 13-fold increased risk of infection in the same analysis was based on just 238 infections in the vaccinated population, less than 1.5% of the more than 16,000 people, versus 19 reinfections among a similar number of people who once had SARS-CoV-2.
https://www.science.org/content/article/having-sars-cov-2-once-confers-much-greater-immunity-vaccine-vaccination-remains-vital
That people who can prove via a recent antibody test that they have immunity at that point be treated the same way as vaccinated individuals especially since many of those who were vaccinated six months ago or more but haven’t had a booster have waning antibodies.
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That people who can prove via a recent antibody test that they have immunity at that point be treated the same way as vaccinated individuals especially since many of those who were vaccinated six months ago or more but haven’t had a booster have waning antibodies.
Where's the evidence that people with prior infections are less likely to spread?
Also, the evidence suggests that while vaccine effectiveness begins to wane after about six months, natural immunity wanes even faster, in as little as half that time.
So, we're really back at square one. All the evidence, including from the Israeli study, is that it's better to be vaccinated, whether you've had a previous infection or not.
But I think we can agree that booster shots are a good idea, right?
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That people who can prove via a recent antibody test that they have immunity at that point be treated the same way as vaccinated individuals especially since many of those who were vaccinated six months ago or more but haven’t had a booster have waning antibodies.
A positive antibody test only indicates an immune response has occurred. It doesn't indicate that you are currently immune enough not to be infected again. Straight from the FDA:
"At this time, do not interpret the results of qualitative, semi-quantitative, or quantitative SARS-CoV-2 antibody tests as an indication of a specific level of immunity or protection from SARS-CoV-2 infection after the person has received a COVID-19 vaccination. While a positive antibody test can indicate an immune response has occurred (seroconversion), and failure to detect such a response may suggest a lack of immune response, more research is needed. Currently authorized SARS-CoV-2 antibody tests are not validated to evaluate specific immunity or protection from SARS-CoV-2 infection. SARS-CoV-2 antibody tests should be ordered only by health care providers who are familiar with the use and limitations of the test. For more information about antibody tests for SARS-CoV-2, see Serology/Antibody Tests: FAQs on Testing for SARS-CoV-2."
Stop spreading misinformation.
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A positive antibody test only indicates an immune response has occurred. It doesn't indicate that you are currently immune enough not to be infected again. Straight from the FDA:
"At this time, do not interpret the results of qualitative, semi-quantitative, or quantitative SARS-CoV-2 antibody tests as an indication of a specific level of immunity or protection from SARS-CoV-2 infection after the person has received a COVID-19 vaccination. While a positive antibody test can indicate an immune response has occurred (seroconversion), and failure to detect such a response may suggest a lack of immune response, more research is needed. Currently authorized SARS-CoV-2 antibody tests are not validated to evaluate specific immunity or protection from SARS-CoV-2 infection. SARS-CoV-2 antibody tests should be ordered only by health care providers who are familiar with the use and limitations of the test. For more information about antibody tests for SARS-CoV-2, see Serology/Antibody Tests: FAQs on Testing for SARS-CoV-2."
Stop spreading misinformation.
Look at how well the vaxxed players are spreading COVID in the NBA. It’s ripped through much of the 76ers team. If you’re giving me that response to people with antibodies it’s only fair to point out the flaws with our current policies and how the vaxxed are spreading too.
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Look at how well the vaxxed players are spreading COVID in the NBA. It’s ripped through much of the 76ers team. If you’re giving me that response to people with antibodies it’s only fair to point out the flaws with our current policies and how the vaxxed are spreading too.
You're implying that you thought vaxxed people can't spread covid. If you didn't know that the vaccinated can still spread covid, then that is on you.
The ONLY thing the vaccine is for is to lower the hospitalization rate and mortality rate.
Anything else is something you've created in your own mind.
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Look at how well the vaxxed players are spreading COVID in the NBA. It’s ripped through much of the 76ers team. If you’re giving me that response to people with antibodies it’s only fair to point out the flaws with our current policies and how the vaxxed are spreading too.
"Vaccination is 100 percent effective against infection," said Nobody Ever.
You're essentially arguing that seat belts are ineffective because people wearing them still get into crashes.
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You're implying that you thought vaxxed people can't spread covid. If you didn't know that the vaccinated can still spread covid, then that is on you.
The ONLY thing the vaccine is for is to lower the hospitalization rate and mortality rate.
Anything else is something you've created in your own mind.
Isn’t that why many of the vaccinated are upset about others around them not being vaxxed? The spreading aspect is at least one but it’s not a big difference I’d wager at this point, especially since a lot of the vaccinated have not received their boosters yet. If it was only about preventing severe infection and death then others should not care about a particular person’s vaccine status unless they’re in poor health.
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Isn’t that why many of the vaccinated are upset about others around them not being vaxxed? The spreading aspect is at least one but it’s not a big difference I’d wager at this point, especially since a lot of the vaccinated have not received their boosters yet. If it was only about preventing severe infection and death then others should not care about a particular person’s vaccine status unless they’re in poor health.
If you’re vaccinated, you have a much lesser chance of getting COVID. Thus, a much lesser chance of spreading it. I don’t get why this is so hard.
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If you’re vaccinated, you have a much lesser chance of getting COVID. Thus, a much lesser chance of spreading it. I don’t get why this is so hard.
Yup. Lower chance of spread means less community cases means reducing risk for those who can't be vaccinated AND reduces chances of further mutated strains.
The vaccine can have multiple good effects. It doesn't have to be just ONE reason to support vaccines despite what statnik wants us to think
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Round 3 of Moderna in my arm this morning. Little foggy this evening, but otherwise all good. My 3 kids get their first doses tomorrow.
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Round 3 of Moderna in my arm this morning. Little foggy this evening, but otherwise all good. My 3 kids get their first doses tomorrow.
Just got my round 3 of Pfizer around lunchtime. Nothing of note for me, but my wife is starting to struggle. Dose 1 hit her pretty good, so its not totally unsurprising
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Republican Washington State Senator Doug Ericksen, who has been fighting vaccine mandates, is stranded in El Salvador with COVID, and cannot get home.
https://twitter.com/MikeSington/status/1459619424634163201?s=20
Gee, that's too bad.
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Republican Washington State Senator Doug Ericksen, who has been fighting vaccine mandates, is stranded in El Salvador with COVID, and cannot get home.
https://twitter.com/MikeSington/status/1459619424634163201?s=20
Gee, that's too bad.
Willing to bet he gets the monoclonal antibodies down there (with the drugs shipped to him), while there are a lot of Americans who do not get it, because they are told they don't qualify.
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Republican Washington State Senator Doug Ericksen, who has been fighting vaccine mandates, is stranded in El Salvador with COVID, and cannot get home.
https://twitter.com/MikeSington/status/1459619424634163201?s=20
Gee, that's too bad.
Thoughts and prayers
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As of October, a visitor was required to show either proof of vaccination or a negative test to enter El Salvador.
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Willing to bet he gets the monoclonal antibodies down there (with the drugs shipped to him), while there are a lot of Americans who do not get it, because they are told they don't qualify.
He's a state senator, not a US senator. I don't think he's gonna get super special treatment with a Democrat governor and a largely left leaning state government in his home state.
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Once again, DeSantis and his toadies are working OT to make Floridians less safe and to ensure that COVID-19 will remain virulent in Florida longer. And they are doing it for purely political reasons.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-11-17/florida-legislators-agree-to-fine-employers-for-vaccine-mandates?campaign_id=4&emc=edit_dk_20211118&instance_id=45707&nl=dealbook®i_id=108420427&segment_id=74731&te=1&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa
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Once again, DeSantis and his toadies are working OT to make Floridians less safe and to ensure that COVID-19 will remain virulent in Florida longer. And they are doing it for purely political reasons.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-11-17/florida-legislators-agree-to-fine-employers-for-vaccine-mandates?campaign_id=4&emc=edit_dk_20211118&instance_id=45707&nl=dealbook®i_id=108420427&segment_id=74731&te=1&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa
There is choice involved. They can wear 'protective equipment' in lieu of being vaccinated.
But this is all silliness at this point anyway. Anyone who wants to be vaccinated or have their child over 5 vaccinated can do so. Children under 5 have an incredibly tiny chance of being hospitalized and even smaller of dying. Is it sad that 292 children have died of Covid19 in the last two years? Of course.
Short of holding people down and vaccinating them, this is what our society has decided we are okay with. We won't have zero death rate ever since the virus is endemic worldwide.
It's probably okay to stop being outraged about vaccine mandates. We are currently at 79.8% of all people over the age of 12 being vaccinated, and that number is climbing every day. Our country is too misinformed to get above 90% so we should accept that what we have done is probably as good as we can expect.
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There is choice involved. They can wear 'protective equipment' in lieu of being vaccinated.
But this is all silliness at this point anyway. Anyone who wants to be vaccinated or have their child over 5 vaccinated can do so. Children under 5 have an incredibly tiny chance of being hospitalized and even smaller of dying. Is it sad that 292 children have died of Covid19 in the last two years? Of course.
Short of holding people down and vaccinating them, this is what our society has decided we are okay with. We won't have zero death rate ever since the virus is endemic worldwide.
It's probably okay to stop being outraged about vaccine mandates. We are currently at 79.8% of all people over the age of 12 being vaccinated, and that number is climbing every day. Our country is too misinformed to get above 90% so we should accept that what we have done is probably as good as we can expect.
Curious where you get your numbers, Hards. I'm not seeing anywhere near that high a percentage of vaccinated Americans on any site I check.
For example, this one suggests much lower figures than 80% of 12+:
https://usafacts.org/visualizations/covid-vaccine-tracker-states/
I am NOT saying your stat is wrong. I'd like to see the source so I know where to get it quickly in the future.
And for the record, I'm only "outraged" at politicians who, for purely political purposes, go out of their way to undermine proven measures at combatting COVID-19.
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Once again, DeSantis and his toadies are working OT to make Floridians less safe and to ensure that COVID-19 will remain virulent in Florida longer. And they are doing it for purely political reasons.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-11-17/florida-legislators-agree-to-fine-employers-for-vaccine-mandates?campaign_id=4&emc=edit_dk_20211118&instance_id=45707&nl=dealbook®i_id=108420427&segment_id=74731&te=1&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa
You don't live in his state, so this does not concern you. And, for those who do, they can move to tax hell California and be among like minded folks, aina?
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You don't live in his state, so this does not concern you. And, for those who do, they can move to tax hell California and be among like minded folks, aina?
Yes good point. Because the virus stops at state lines.
It's amazing how quickly pro-business types turn anti-business when they make decisions they don't like.
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You don't live in his state, so this does not concern you. And, for those who do, they can move to tax hell California and be among like minded folks, aina?
Cuz thee crayzee fooker iz thankin bout the big chare.
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Curious where you get your numbers, Hards. I'm not seeing anywhere near that high a percentage of vaccinated Americans on any site I check.
For example, this one suggests much lower figures than 80% of 12+:
https://usafacts.org/visualizations/covid-vaccine-tracker-states/
I am NOT saying your stat is wrong. I'd like to see the source so I know where to get it quickly in the future.
And for the record, I'm only "outraged" at politicians who, for purely political purposes, go out of their way to undermine proven measures at combatting COVID-19.
https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#vaccinations_vacc-total-admin-rate-total
80% of 12+ have received at least one dose. About 70% are fully vaccinated. Your data shows percent of US population.
The fact that we are at 80% receiving one dose is frankly miraculous considering how loud the idiotic anti-vaccine message is right now. And it also shows how much in the minority those people are.
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They have their borax baths to take away the sting.
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https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#vaccinations_vacc-total-admin-rate-total
80% of 12+ have received at least one dose. About 70% are fully vaccinated. Your data shows percent of US population.
The fact that we are at 80% receiving one dose is frankly miraculous considering how loud the idiotic anti-vaccine message is right now. And it also shows how much in the minority those people are.
Thanks, I was about to link the same.
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Thanks, I was about to link the same.
And I agree with you that the 80% figure is likely good enough. At some point, we have to move on here.
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https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2021-11-17/sweden-to-introduce-covid-vaccine-passes-for-indoors-events?context=amp
Well well well. Look who is introducing vaccine passes.
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https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#vaccinations_vacc-total-admin-rate-total
80% of 12+ have received at least one dose. About 70% are fully vaccinated. Your data shows percent of US population.
The fact that we are at 80% receiving one dose is frankly miraculous considering how loud the idiotic anti-vaccine message is right now. And it also shows how much in the minority those people are.
I appreciate the link, Sultan. Just what I was looking for. I've bookmarked it.
At some point, we have to move on here.
Move on from what? From caring that politicians keep trying to prevent private companies from protecting their employees and customers?
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You don't live in his state, so this does not concern you. And, for those who do, they can move to tax hell California and be among like minded folks, aina?
You don't live in his state, either. And yet you defend somebody who is willing to let people die or get seriously ill for purely political reasons, nu?
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When are you going to turn the corner? When Fr. Fauci says its ok to breathe again? The vaccine has limited efficacy. Waitin' on effective, available therapeutics.
BTW, should Gov. DeSantis decide to pursue the presidency in 2024, FD Joe, Harris, or Mayor Pete can't beat him, hey?
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When are you going to turn the corner? When Fr. Fauci says its ok to breathe again? The vaccine has limited efficacy. Waitin' on effective, available therapeutics.
BTW, should Gov. DeSantis decide to pursue the presidency in 2024, FD Joe, Harris, or Mayor Pete can't beat him, hey?
When I stop doing CPR on the unvaxxed.
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When are you going to turn the corner? When Fr. Fauci says its ok to breathe again? The vaccine has limited efficacy.
Something tells me that you don't understand "efficacy."
https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/covid-19-vaccine-efficacy-and-effectiveness
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When are you going to turn the corner? When Fr. Fauci says its ok to breathe again? The vaccine has limited efficacy. Waitin' on effective, available therapeutics.
BTW, should Gov. DeSantis decide to pursue the presidency in 2024, FD Joe, Harris, or Mayor Pete can't beat him, hey?
DeSantis had been hanging with Gaetz apparently.
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When are you going to turn the corner? When Fr. Fauci says its ok to breathe again? The vaccine has limited efficacy. Waitin' on effective, available therapeutics.
BTW, should Gov. DeSantis decide to pursue the presidency in 2024, FD Joe, Harris, or Mayor Pete can't beat him, hey?
How many people that you are connected to have died from COVID? For me, between retirees who were once my friends, my relatives, parents of co-workers, and patients I have done CPR on, the number is in the upper teens.
Yeah, it is irksome. Still fatal. Or with symptoms that don't leave.
But if everyone had just submitted to authority, it would be far less. Aina.
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https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/49387011
Help me out here. The PGA does not require vaccines for its employees. Why would someone need a religious exemption from testing and masking, which are their required protocols for the unvaxxed? What religious beliefs does testing violate?
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https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/49387011
Help me out here. The PGA does not require vaccines for its employees. Why would someone need a religious exemption from testing and masking, which are their required protocols for the unvaxxed? What religious beliefs does testing violate?
The right to use religion to behave like an pretty boy?
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When are you going to turn the corner? When Fr. Fauci says its ok to breathe again? The vaccine has limited efficacy. Waitin' on effective, available therapeutics.
BTW, should Gov. DeSantis decide to pursue the presidency in 2024, FD Joe, Harris, or Mayor Pete can't beat him, hey?
He’ll get primaried by Mart Gaetz
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Funny how the same people who "didn't trust the vaccine" when Trump was the president, now are its biggest advocates. Our current Vice President vowed, over a year ago, she wouldn't take the vaccine if told to by President Trump. Interesting how that works, aina?
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I think it’s even funnier to see how this pro/anti bleach fanatics whipped around.
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She also said she would take it if the scientists said it was safe. Trusted science, not Trump. Simple. Clear.
And I won't truly move past COVID until my sense of smell returns to normal. It has been a year. Still hopeful.
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At this point I am more worried about the surge in mental illness amongst dentists than I am about COVID.
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Something tells me that you don't understand "efficacy."
https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/covid-19-vaccine-efficacy-and-effectiveness
He's a medical professional though
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Funny how the same people who "didn't trust the vaccine" when Trump was the president, now are its biggest advocates. Our current Vice President vowed, over a year ago, she wouldn't take the vaccine if told to by President Trump. Interesting how that works, aina?
You're so enlightened.
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Funny how the same people who "didn't trust the vaccine" when Trump was the president, now are its biggest advocates. Our current Vice President vowed, over a year ago, she wouldn't take the vaccine if told to by President Trump. Interesting how that works, aina?
Hey, let's recycle talking points from last Spring. That'll show 'em!!!
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Funny how the same people who "didn't trust the vaccine" when Trump was the president, now are its biggest advocates. Our current Vice President vowed, over a year ago, she wouldn't take the vaccine if told to by President Trump. Interesting how that works, aina?
Funny how the same people who claim Trump deserves credit for inventing the vaccine don't trust the very vaccine they claim their god invented.
I know you'd do anything Trump would tell you to do, including get down on all 4s and squeal like a pig, but why would any normal person take any medication before scientists tell them it's safe to do so?
When the scientists said the vaccines were safe, the vice president got the vaccine publicly, as did her husband, as did the president, as did his wife. Meanwhile, your god got his in private, lest he upset the anti-vaxxers, and he's now saying he probably won't get a booster because he knows that's what his gullible sheeple want to hear.
Interesting how that works, nu?
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https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2021-11-17/sweden-to-introduce-covid-vaccine-passes-for-indoors-events?context=amp
Well well well. Look who is introducing vaccine passes.
Should we still be like Sweden?
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Funny how the same people who "didn't trust the vaccine" when Trump was the president, now are its biggest advocates. Our current Vice President vowed, over a year ago, she wouldn't take the vaccine if told to by President Trump. Interesting how that works, aina?
Seems reasonable, tbh.
"If the public health professionals, if Dr. Fauci, if the doctors tell us that we should take it, I’ll be the first in line to take it. Absolutely. But if Donald Trump tells us that we should take it, I’m not taking it."
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At this point I am more worried about the surge in mental illness amongst dentists than I am about COVID.
T-Squared, bring that up at the next dental society meeting in Fond du Lac. You'll be laughed right off the floor, aina?
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T-Squared, bring that up at the next dental society meeting in Fond du Lac. You'll be laughed right off the floor, aina?
You meet in Fondy... but why?
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You don't live in his state, so this does not concern you. And, for those who do, they can move to tax hell California and be among like minded folks, aina?
Or those that do just vote his azz out of office and make Florida great again!
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T-Squared, bring that up at the next dental society meeting in Fond du Lac. You'll be laughed right off the floor, aina?
Ooooooo, the dental society meeting in Fond du Lac. What a prestigious event.
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Ok cool, want to make a bigger fool of yourself? Do it at the Mid-Winter or ADA convention, hey?
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A fool is definitely being made here
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Ok cool, want to make a bigger fool of yourself? Do it at the Mid-Winter or ADA convention, hey?
To quote Milwaukee's own...
"Did I happen to mention that I'm impressed?"
I imagine roqqet's keynote "Ivermectin: Why Scientific Data is Passé" will be quite the barnburner, but it is "Dr." Gosar's breakout session on creating do-it-yourself beheading anime that will be the real draw.
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The vaccines are powerful, even for those who have had COVID. But then again, anybody with any common sense who has read any real scientific studies already knew that.
From Bloomberg New Service:
It was meant to be a summer vacation to celebrate. Thousands of revelers flocked to Provincetown, Massachusetts, for the July Fourth holiday, fully immunized against COVID-19 and ready to enjoy new freedoms, including socializing without face masks.
Instead, the weather turned cool and rainy, and the festivities shifted indoors to pubs, clubs and private homes, creating a crucible for the effectiveness of vaccines used to contain the uber-transmissible delta variant. More than 1,000 COVID cases ensued over the following two weeks, rocking confidence in the inoculations and prompting the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention to reinstate an indoor masking mandate.
Four months later, researchers studying those who contracted the virus are gaining important insights into the immunity-bolstering effects of natural infection after vaccination. Importantly, their findings offer clues about the immune protection needed for the coronavirus to cease being a public-health menace and, ultimately, to end the pandemic.
“Our data really puts a different perspective on the Provincetown cohort,” said Dan Barouch, a Harvard Medical School professor and head of Boston’s Beth Israel Deaconess’ Center for Virology and Vaccine Research. “Initially, it was viewed as evidence of vaccine failures. I would actually argue it’s evidence of vaccine success. These vaccines are doing what they are intended to do.”
The outbreak in Provincetown, the small resort town located at the tip of Cape Cod that’s known colloquially as “P-town,” was the first well-described, large cluster of infections with the delta variant in a highly vaccinated population. Some three-quarters of the COVID cases occurred in people who had two doses of either the Pfizer or Moderna vaccines, or the single Johnson & Johnson shot, at least 14 days earlier.
Almost 80% of these so-called breakthrough infections were symptomatic. Although the majority led to only mild-to-moderate illness, the COVID surge in the face of high vaccination rates prompted an intense investigation by state and local health officials.
They found the amount of viral material on nasal swabs was similar in vaccinated and unvaccinated people. That surprising finding undercut overly optimistic expectations that the inoculations could eliminate SARS-CoV-2 transmission, particularly given the twice-as-infectious delta strain.
Disease detectives at Boston’s Broad Institute used genomic sequence data to trace the outbreak to just a handful of infected people, including one who was the likely source of more than 80% of cases. Their work proved COVID could spread between fully vaccinated people. Intriguingly, the disease sleuths also found those infected in Provincetown – who came from 21 states – contributed only modestly to the delta-fueled U.S. epidemic after they returned home.
The outcome was comforting because it backed what’s already known about immunization, said Helen Petousis-Harris, a vaccinologist at the University of Auckland.
“Vaccination against COVID-19 is the best way to prevent getting severely ill and dying from COVID, but it doesn’t completely stop everyone who gets it from being infected with the SARS-CoV-2 virus or from transmitting it,” she said. “However, if you are vaccinated and you get infected, you’re less likely to spread the virus than if you’re unvaccinated.”
Detailed analysis performed in Barouch’s Harvard lab helps explain why. He and colleagues studied the immune responses of 35 vaccinated people tested for COVID in the Provincetown outbreak. Those who got a breakthrough infection had a dramatic increase in levels of virus-blocking antibodies and virus-killing T cells, including 34-fold higher neutralizing antibody levels against the delta variant, compared with those who weren’t infected.
An infection five to six months after vaccination jolted the body’s immune memory into gear to generate potent, delta-specific antibodies and T cells that helped clear the virus before it caused severe illness or had the chance to spread.
That the vaccines are the very best way to get back to "normal" is not news -- or at least shouldn't be. This is more confirmation.
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You really can't make this stuff up.
Anti-vax doctors at a conference touting alternatives to prevent COVID, get COVID at a Florida conference.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/nov/23/florida-doctors-covid-coronavirus-bruce-boros (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/nov/23/florida-doctors-covid-coronavirus-bruce-boros)
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God laughs.
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You really can't make this stuff up.
Anti-vax doctors at a conference touting alternatives to prevent COVID, get COVID at a Florida conference.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/nov/23/florida-doctors-covid-coronavirus-bruce-boros (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/nov/23/florida-doctors-covid-coronavirus-bruce-boros)
Were any of them dentists? ;D
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Nah, butt dey wur old and white, hey?
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You really can't make this stuff up.
Anti-vax doctors at a conference touting alternatives to prevent COVID, get COVID at a Florida conference.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/nov/23/florida-doctors-covid-coronavirus-bruce-boros (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/nov/23/florida-doctors-covid-coronavirus-bruce-boros)
Was it even necessary to include the part I highlighted? Could it have been anywhere else?
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Were any of them dentists? ;D
Nah, I heard the dentists were holding out for the follow up conference in Fondy.
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Nah, I heard the dentists were holding out for the follow up conference in Fondy.
I've been to a dentists office a few times. Wish I'd get invited to that!
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Were any of them dentists? ;D
No, they were actual doctors.
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Back in your day, they were known as tooth carpenters, hey?
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https://www.channelnewsasia.com/world/vaccines-reduce-covid-19-transmission-40-who-2336716?cid=FBcna&fbclid=IwAR0ANTKUydGb4RH0ShcYy4363nBmw2JjSbecvPhqRqfJwTuYTtQP_ivQTFg
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New York City has very low mortality rate.
https://twitter.com/johnarnoldfndtn/status/1464973536355930116?s=21
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New York City has very low mortality rate.
https://twitter.com/johnarnoldfndtn/status/1464973536355930116?s=21
Yep. The hyper-dense urban area in the US like Chicago and NYC have mask mandates & most places require proof of vaccination. Despite the huge population density difference, we're keeping the infection rate and death rate in line or lower than much less dense rural areas. The pro-social behavior by residents and public policies helped me make my decision to stay in a large city for the rest of my life.
It's no-brainer behavior+policies that keep the economy fully open and rolling, and it's been working great.
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Judge temporarily blocks Biden administration vaccine mandate for health-care workers in 10 states
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/11/30/biden-vaccine-mandate-judge-block/?utm_campaign=wp_the7&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_the7&carta-url=https%3A%2F%2Fs2.washingtonpost.com%2Fcar-ln-tr%2F3567167%2F61a614099d2fdab56baa06d0%2F5f8d147cae7e8a56e5b732a4%2F12%2F40%2F61a614099d2fdab56baa06d0
I'm still trying to figure out why anybody would be against health-care workers having to be vaccinated. Would the governors or other politicians in these states want their loved ones being treated by unvaccinated people?
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Judge temporarily blocks Biden administration vaccine mandate for health-care workers in 10 states
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2021/11/30/biden-vaccine-mandate-judge-block/?utm_campaign=wp_the7&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_the7&carta-url=https%3A%2F%2Fs2.washingtonpost.com%2Fcar-ln-tr%2F3567167%2F61a614099d2fdab56baa06d0%2F5f8d147cae7e8a56e5b732a4%2F12%2F40%2F61a614099d2fdab56baa06d0
I'm still trying to figure out why anybody would be against health-care workers having to be vaccinated. Would the governors or other politicians in these states want their loved ones being treated by unvaccinated people?
I hate to say it. But you can usually find the agenda by watching Foxnews. Yesterday, they were going off on more people dying of COVID during Biden than Trump. Saying he has blood on his hands and should face a Reckoning.
That is the reason. They want more dead so they can blame Biden.
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I hate to say it. But you can usually find the agenda by watching Foxnews. Yesterday, they were going off on more people dying of COVID during Biden than Trump. Saying he has blood on his hands and should face a Reckoning.
That is the reason. They want more dead so they can blame Biden.
Yeah, it doesn't matter that the vast majority of dead are unvaccinated-by-choice people from red-state, mandate-refusing counties that voted for Trump.
Tucker gonna Tucker ... but I bet Tucker wouldn't let his mom or kids or other family/friends be treated by some unvaccinated nurse or doctor.
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New York City has very low mortality rate.
https://twitter.com/johnarnoldfndtn/status/1464973536355930116?s=21
NYC 7 day avg of deaths is right where it was at this same time last year prior to the vaccines being rolled out. Cases are starting to climb again in NYC but since the initial surge their mortality numbers have been super low.
Which also aligns with the rest of the state as well.
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NYC 7 day avg of deaths is right where it was at this same time last year prior to the vaccines being rolled out. Cases are starting to climb again in NYC but since the initial surge their mortality numbers have been super low.
Which also aligns with the rest of the state as well.
According to the data, NY State's death rate per 100k in the last 7 days is 2x the death rate of New York City. The state also has ~2x the hospitalization rate of NYC. The state also has ~2x the case rate of NYC.
This is bonkers when considering the population density disparity.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/us/new-york-covid-cases.html
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I am getting the booster and will take as many boosters as needed. It is too early to tell on Omicron, but I am going to listen to the people smarter than me. I did not like the comments from Moderna CEO this morning in regards to Omicron. I am afraid it is going to be a long winter and hoping to restrictions are not needed. This has been too long of a haul and getting me depressed.
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Everyone is tired, Goose. Except, of course, the virus. And the next mutation.
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Tower
No doubt we all are tired. I just have a bad feeling about this variant.
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According to the data, NY State's death rate per 100k in the last 7 days is 2x the death rate of New York City. The state also has ~2x the hospitalization rate of NYC. The state also has ~2x the case rate of NYC.
This is bonkers when considering the population density disparity.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/us/new-york-covid-cases.html
What's the vaccination percentage of NYC vs the rest of the state?
Was just in NYC and plenty of people seem to still be wearing masks.
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NYC 7 day avg of deaths is right where it was at this same time last year prior to the vaccines being rolled out. Cases are starting to climb again in NYC but since the initial surge their mortality numbers have been super low.
Which also aligns with the rest of the state as well.
Last year, New York had extreme limitations and curfews on indoor dining that they don't have now. So cases were being kept down more due to forced distancing measures versus vaccines.
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What's the vaccination percentage of NYC vs the rest of the state?
Was just in NYC and plenty of people seem to still be wearing masks.
The state has 1% more with one dose, the city has 1% more fully vaccinated, so they're neck & neck when it comes to shots-in-arms.
https://coronavirus.health.ny.gov/vaccination-progress-date
https://www1.nyc.gov/site/doh/covid/covid-19-data-vaccines.page
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I am getting the booster and will take as many boosters as needed. It is too early to tell on Omicron, but I am going to listen to the people smarter than me. I did not like the comments from Moderna CEO this morning in regards to Omicron. I am afraid it is going to be a long winter and hoping to restrictions are not needed. This has been too long of a haul and getting me depressed.
I feel the same way Goose, exhausted. But I'd caution you about the single quote from the Moderna CEO.
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I feel the same way Goose, exhausted. But I'd caution you about the single quote from the Moderna CEO.
Given what their stock did when Omicron was announced and panic ensued, I think that it is probably prudent to take his thoughts with a grain of salt.
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Wags
I stated back in Feb '19 that the Chinese locking Wuhan was either the biggest overreaction or they knew something was really bad. There is too much smoke around Omicron and it has my attention. #1 Wall Street guys are rich for a reason and they seemed a bit spooked, #2 Israel does not play games and they are taking this seriously, #3 Moderna CEO's comments, #4 Multiple countries are banning incoming flights from southern Africa and #5 the origin of Omicron has me concerned. Many other things have caught my attention on this variant and I am afraid we do not want this cat out of the bag.
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Wags
I stated back in Feb '19 that the Chinese locking Wuhan was either the biggest overreaction or they knew something was really bad. There is too much smoke around Omicron and it has my attention. #1 Wall Street guys are rich for a reason and they seemed a bit spooked, #2 Israel does not play games and they are taking this seriously, #3 Moderna CEO's comments, #4 Multiple countries are banning incoming flights from southern Africa and #5 the origin of Omicron has me concerned. Many other things have caught my attention on this variant and I am afraid we do not want this cat out of the bag.
The variant most likely did not originate in South Africa, it was just the place it was first detected. I believe they're rerunning samples from the Netherlands from a couple weeks back and they're coming up positive. "Shutdowns between countries" are 100% political and 100% pointless. There is no stopping this virus and by the time we have detected it in a population it has probably zig zagged across the globe. It's already in the US and probably has been for some time. We are really bad at testing for specific variants.
Otherwise, I generally agree... but Moderna's CEO is going to say what is best for his company... always. It's his entire job. So take what he says with a grain of salt.
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Wags
I stated back in Feb '19 that the Chinese locking Wuhan was either the biggest overreaction or they knew something was really bad. There is too much smoke around Omicron and it has my attention. #1 Wall Street guys are rich for a reason and they seemed a bit spooked, #2 Israel does not play games and they are taking this seriously, #3 Moderna CEO's comments, #4 Multiple countries are banning incoming flights from southern Africa and #5 the origin of Omicron has me concerned. Many other things have caught my attention on this variant and I am afraid we do not want this cat out of the bag.
A full year in advance? Can you tell me who's gonna win the 22 world series? ;D
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Sorry, Zigs. I have lost track of time. As for the '22 World Series, go with the Dodgers.
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Wags
I stated back in Feb '19 that the Chinese locking Wuhan was either the biggest overreaction or they knew something was really bad. There is too much smoke around Omicron and it has my attention. #1 Wall Street guys are rich for a reason and they seemed a bit spooked, #2 Israel does not play games and they are taking this seriously, #3 Moderna CEO's comments, #4 Multiple countries are banning incoming flights from southern Africa and #5 the origin of Omicron has me concerned. Many other things have caught my attention on this variant and I am afraid we do not want this cat out of the bag.
Totally fair. And in totality I get it. Just always gonna be cagey when it comes to biotech/pharma CEOs with volatile stocks who move a TON on speculation/news/rumor
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A full year in advance? Can you tell me who's gonna win the 22 world series? ;D
I predict the New York Giants in 5, with one game being a tie.
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I predict the New York Giants in 5, with one game being a tie.
Just dropped $100 on 700-1 odds at Onieda.
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Omicron Prompts Swift Reconsideration of Boosters Among Scientists -- Many public health experts were opposed to a boosters-for-all approach. The new variant is changing some minds.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/01/health/covid-omicron-booster-shots.html?campaign_id=4&emc=edit_dk_20211202&instance_id=46795&nl=dealbook®i_id=108420427&segment_id=75899&te=1&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa
As recently as last week, many public health experts were fiercely opposed to the Biden administration’s campaign to roll out booster shots of the coronavirus vaccines to all American adults. There was little scientific evidence to support extra doses for most people, the researchers said.
The Omicron variant has changed all that.
Scientists do not yet know with any certainty whether the virus is easier to spread or less vulnerable to the body’s immune response. But with dozens of new mutations, the variant seems likely to evade the protection from vaccines to some significant degree.
Booster shots clearly raise antibody levels, strengthening the body’s defenses against infection, and may help offset whatever advantages Omicron has gained through evolution.
Many of the experts who were opposed to boosters now believe that the shots may offer the best defense against the new variant. The extra doses may slow the spread, at least, buying time for vaccine makers to develop an Omicron-specific formulation, if needed.
“Based on what we know about the potential for immune evasion, I would err on the side of giving the booster,” said Dr. Celine Gounder, an infectious disease specialist at Bellevue Hospital Center who had opposed the Biden administration’s boosters-for-all push.
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The administration has to stop f*cking around the messaging around this. It is maddening. Frankly the issues with the President and the CDC not being on the same page are still bad. Maybe not Trump-era bad, but its causing confusion.
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Signed up to get my booster yesterday and the Walgreens website said that I can only get an additional shot of the vaccine that I had already received (the only way you could pick your booster was if your original was J&J). I had been operating under the assumption that mixing was likely to have more broad coverage, is this not the case? I’m still getting the booster no questions asked (3X Pfizer), but it seemed weird that they clearly had both Pfizer and Moderna but were limiting people on their choices. Someone that knows more about this than me have an explanation?
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Signed up to get my booster yesterday and the Walgreens website said that I can only get an additional shot of the vaccine that I had already received (the only way you could pick your booster was if your original was J&J). I had been operating under the assumption that mixing was likely to have more broad coverage, is this not the case? I’m still getting the booster no questions asked (3X Pfizer), but it seemed weird that they clearly had both Pfizer and Moderna but were limiting people on their choices. Someone that knows more about this than me have an explanation?
I got Moderna after having Pfizer for the first two shots. That seems to be a Walgreens specific thing as CVS didn’t have that restriction.
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Getting my booster Saturday morning before the game.
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The administration has to stop f*cking around the messaging around this. It is maddening. Frankly the issues with the President and the CDC not being on the same page are still bad. Maybe not Trump-era bad, but its causing confusion.
Agreed. CDC booster guidance has been a cluster
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The administration has to stop f*cking around the messaging around this. It is maddening. Frankly the issues with the President and the CDC not being on the same page are still bad. Maybe not Trump-era bad, but its causing confusion.
Yep goes back to what I said awhile ago, science is ever changing and evolving as is what the medical professionals know about the virus, which is great, but that doesn't mean that has to all be shotgunned out to the public in real time.
You had "boosters may not be necessary for everyone" floating around as vax hesistancy was still too damn high, and then all of a sudden you start to hear generalities about "2 shots may no longer be considered vaxxed". Its just a quagmire of messaging. And I don't even have a problem with the booster, I got it, but wait until you're ready for a firm declaration before making public statements.
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Yep goes back to what I said awhile ago, science is ever changing and evolving as is what the medical professionals know about the virus, which is great, but that doesn't mean that has to all be shotgunned out to the public in real time.
You had "boosters may not be necessary for everyone" floating around as vax hesistancy was still too damn high, and then all of a sudden you start to hear generalities about "2 shots may no longer be considered vaxxed". Its just a quagmire of messaging. And I don't even have a problem with the booster, I got it, but wait until you're ready for a firm declaration before making public statements.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/sallypipes/2021/10/11/mixed-messaging-on-boosters-leaves-americans-dazed-and-confused/?sh=4faaf0085bb0
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I got Moderna after having Pfizer for the first two shots. That seems to be a Walgreens specific thing as CVS didn’t have that restriction.
I did the same, two Pfizers, one Moderna, at CVS.
I dunno about other Walgreens, but the one near us is extremely poorly run.
CVS is miles ahead of them in terms of service, it's not even close.
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They are both chitty stores. Filthy, dark, run down, and depressin'. Might just be a Bay thang, hey?
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I did the same, two Pfizers, one Moderna, at CVS.
I dunno about other Walgreens, but the one near us is extremely poorly run.
CVS is miles ahead of them in terms of service, it's not even close.
My primary care provider says to keep it the same, so I am a triple Moderna.
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Any early word on which is better against the omicron?
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Any early word on which is better against the omicron?
Moderna would likely still be ever so slightly better. Largely/likely because of the higher dosage.
But all will almost assuredly suffer in terms of efficacy. The question at this point is how much. And, will omicron be as/more/or less virulent.
Regardless, your best bet to avoid severe disease is to be vaccinated.
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Any early word on which is better against the omicron?
I was reading a summary this morning (maybe from the NY Times) that the latest from South Africa, is that all the vaccines appear to still have the same effectiveness.
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I was reading a summary this morning (maybe from the NY Times) that the latest from South Africa, is that all the vaccines appear to still have the same effectiveness.
I would be pretty surprised if that were true.
The most optimistic data I've seen is that if you are doubly vaccinated and received your booster, you will see about 5-10% lower efficacy than 2-doses gave you against Delta.
That's still great news, ~90% efficacy if you've gotten a booster.
The bad news, is they have seen even young otherwise healthy, vaccinated (J&J), hospitalized.
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I would be pretty surprised if that were true.
The most optimistic data I've seen is that if you are doubly vaccinated and received your booster, you will see about 5-10% lower efficacy than 2-doses gave you against Delta.
That's still great news, ~90% efficacy if you've gotten a booster.
The bad news, is they have seen even young otherwise healthy, vaccinated (J&J), hospitalized.
https://mobile.twitter.com/TheInsiderPaper/status/1466816422122864647
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https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/dutch-covid-19-quarantine-ends-most-safrica-passengers-authorities-2021-12-02/
Seems to be a lot of reports coming out showing vaccination doesn’t do squat in preventing transmission of the variant. If it ends up being successful in preventing hospitalization/death then can we finally stop tracking case counts. Obama had it right with the swine flu, just stop tracking positive cases if 99% of cases lead to minor illness.
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https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/03/italian-man-tries-to-dodge-covid-vaccine-wearing-fake-arm?CMP=twt_a-world_b-gdnworld&fbclid=IwAR28cAT09su3_8JYnkjkUMaWKxekW10j_Xt9O-aELRL-7VRwfk1ioJh3BYA
The lengths people will go to…
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https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/dutch-covid-19-quarantine-ends-most-safrica-passengers-authorities-2021-12-02/
Seems to be a lot of reports coming out showing vaccination doesn’t do squat in preventing transmission of the variant.
I mentioned I would be surprised if the vaccines were as effective as against previous versions.
My belief, based on the actual location of the variants is that the vaccines will not be nearly as effective in preventing illness, and less effective at preventing serious illness (unless this is a milder strain). The only question is where the % efficacy lies.
But saying it doesn't do squat, is also inaccurate, especially when based off the limited data we currently have. We are finding out more every day, but the bottom line is COVID isn't done messing with our daily lives.
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It never was.
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It never was.
You and I are in agreement. Sadly, way too many still think it is over.
I'm hoping that vaccination AND prior infection might be enough to keep this strain at bay.
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https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/dec/03/liberal-senator-alex-antic-taken-into-sa-hotel-quarantine-and-denies-misleading-pm-on-vaccination
This is great. Check out the picture. Australian Senator being escorted by the police out of the airport and into hotel quarantine. The Prime Minister was under the impression he was vaccinated. He refused to disclose his status at the airport and had been granted an exemption given to unvaccinated travelers allowing him to return to his province on condition he enter hotel quarantine.
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Antic seems like the perfect surname for this dude.
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Indirectly COVID related, an interesting article on mRNA vaccine development for other illnesses.
https://www.nhregister.com/news/article/Why-Yale-researcher-says-his-Lyme-vaccine-is-16675814.php?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_content=test&utm_campaign=CT_NHR_MorningBriefing&sid=5baaacf72ddf9c545d737065
Why Yale researcher says his Lyme vaccine is first of its kind
Jordan Nathaniel Fenster
Dec. 5, 2021
Updated: Dec. 5, 2021 4:40 p.m.
Yale University researcher Erol Fikrig says the Lyme disease vaccine he’s developing is the first of its kind in two ways.
Unlike any previous attempt to vaccinate against Lyme, it’s based on mRNA technology, the same used to build the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines developed to fight COVID.
But to Fikrig, that is not the most interesting part. The real breakthrough, Fikrig says, is that his vaccine is the first that does not target the disease itself.
“Every vaccine that you and I have had, every vaccine that has ever been made, is directed against the pathogen, against a microbe,” he said. “This is the first example of a vaccine against an infectious disease that does not target a microbe.”
Instead, the vaccine being developed by Fikrig and his team targets the disease carrier — in this case, the deer ticks that transmit the disease.
More specifically, the vaccine targets the tick’s saliva, and exploits the time it takes for the Lyme bacteria to go from the tick into your bloodstream.
Unlike with mosquito-borne illnesses like malaria, transmission of Lyme is not fast. In fact, it takes about two days.
“When it bites you, it feeds for about four to five days. And it really starts engorging, taking the blood meal, at about 24 to 48 hours,” Fikrig said.
All the while, the bacteria that causes Lyme, a spirochete called Borrelia burgdorferi, “lives inside the tick gut, and it stays there sort of sleeping, resting,” Fikrig said.
“In response to the blood meal, it gets activated, then it moves out,” he said. “It doesn't move out of the tick until about day one or day two. So there's a window of one to two days where the tick is attaching to you, feeding, but the spirochete has not yet been transmitted.”
When a mosquito bites, it injects a proboscis, and you feel it immediately, Fikrig explained. The response is usually to slap the bug in the hopes of dislodging it. Ticks do the same, inserting something called a “hypostome,” but you don’t feel it.
“Most likely, it's because when ticks bite you, they inject salivary components that have the ability to numb you locally,” he said. “That's part of it. That's one of the hypotheses, and it's a likely one.”
Fikrig’s vaccine does two things: It takes the silencer off the tick bite, making it red and itchy before the bacteria has the chance to move from the tick to a new host, and makes the ticks feed poorly and fall off the body far sooner.
“I don't think that’s as important as identifying redness, and recognizing the tick bite, because I've never heard of anybody who's noticed the tick on them and hasn't pulled it off within three, four minutes,” he said.
Fikrig had been investigating what he called “tick resistance” for more than a decade with limited success. It wasn’t until mRNA technology became available that his breakthrough happened.
“We've been using mRNA since 2019, about eight months before the pandemic occurred,” he said.
The idea of tick resistance is an old one. Sixty years ago, a researcher named Bill Trager noticed that animals develop resistance to tick bites. Trager’s research, like Fikrig’s, involved intentionally putting ticks on guinea pigs.
“He let them feed, and they all fed happily. He came back a month later, put another bunch of 30 ticks on those same guinea pigs, they fed poorly,” Fikrig said of Trager. “And he came back another month later, none of them fed at all. So animals naturally acquire tick resistance.”
The question then became how does resistance occur, biologically, and how to exploit it.
“The hypothesis we had is that when a tick bites you, it secretes saliva to the bite site, and your body develops an immune response to that saliva,” Fikrig said. “So, if we could reproduce that by taking salivary protein targets and putting them in an mRNA vaccine, that might elicit the same phenomenon.”
Fikrig is leaving commercial development of his vaccine, including human trials, to private interests. He’s now hoping to use the same strategy to fight other slow transmitting tick-borne illnesses, like babeosis.
The more difficult proposition is whether his strategy can be used to fight fast transmitting tick-borne illnesses, like powassan or anaplasmosis, which are also found in Connecticut.
“They are transmitted within usually 30 minutes,” Fikrig said. “We're going to try those as well. My expectation is it will not work against those because unless the tick recognition is seconds or minutes, I don't think it will work against those.”
There is some hope, though. Longer term, Fikrig is developing a different strategy, also based on mRNA technology, to fight mosquito-borne illnesses like dengue and malaria. In that case, the method is to make the mosquito saliva less likely to infect human plasma.
If that is successful, it might mean a way to fight fast-transmitting illnesses borne by both ticks and mosquitoes.
“We're working on ways to target mosquito salivate proteins that influence the bite site to enhance plasmodium infectivity,” he said. “By blocking that we hope to reduce malaria. So we're addressing malaria, but the principle is somewhat different.”
Written By
Jordan Nathaniel Fenster
Longest running high school football rivalries in CT
Some of the longest running high school football rivalries in the country are right here in Connecticut, many of which are played on Thanksgiving.
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https://mobile.twitter.com/hollyanndoan/status/1467814530545823750
Is this real? Saw Rogan retweeted so hopefully he’s not spreading a fake story but if Canada shuts down Moderna for young males shouldn’t we also?
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https://mobile.twitter.com/hollyanndoan/status/1467814530545823750
Is this real? Saw Rogan retweeted so hopefully he’s not spreading a fake story but if Canada shuts down Moderna for young males shouldn’t we also?
Google, or even reading the replies to the tweet you linked are your friend.
Based on google, and the link to the Canada health authorities in the responses to that tweet indicate it is false.
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Google, or even reading the replies to the tweet you linked are your friend.
Based on google, and the link to the Canada health authorities in the responses to that tweet indicate it is false.
I don’t read comments. Not a good look for Rogan to be retweeting false information.
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I don’t read comments. Not a good look for Rogan to be retweeting false information.
Hah, only Pace would count on a comedian/MMA guy for his scientific info.
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Hah, only Pace would count on a comedian/MMA guy for his scientific info.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/torontosun.com/news/provincial/ontario-now-recommending-against-moderna-vaccine-for-men-18-24-years-old/wcm/014d7982-9eb0-444d-baba-b3a95b6b4f8e/amp/
https://www.health.gov.on.ca/en/pro/programs/publichealth/coronavirus/docs/vaccine/COVID-19_vaccination_rec_special_populations.pdf
He seems to be right.
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Hah, only Pace would count on a comedian/MMA guy for his scientific info.
I think it’s pretty cool Aaron Rodgers participates in scoop.
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He seems to be right.
That article is from September, and the PDF only says preferential recommendation for Pfizer. I'm not sure what new information you think you've brought up here.
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That article is from September, and the PDF only says preferential recommendation for Pfizer. I'm not sure what new information you think you've brought up here.
It was new to me so if I missed it being discussed here lo siento!
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https://www.google.com/amp/s/torontosun.com/news/provincial/ontario-now-recommending-against-moderna-vaccine-for-men-18-24-years-old/wcm/014d7982-9eb0-444d-baba-b3a95b6b4f8e/amp/
https://www.health.gov.on.ca/en/pro/programs/publichealth/coronavirus/docs/vaccine/COVID-19_vaccination_rec_special_populations.pdf
He seems to be right.
You do know that Ontario isn't all of Canada right? Canada did not shut anything down for young men.
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You do know that Ontario isn't all of Canada right? Canada did not shut anything down for young men.
I didn’t realize Canada was more then just Ontario, thanks for that.
https://mobile.twitter.com/MSmelkinsonPhD/status/1468048748244877312
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https://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2021/12/06/covid-19-omicron-variant-south-africa-natural-infection-karim-keilar-newday-intl-ldn-vpx.cnn
South African epidemiologist says that it appears that having had Covid before does not protect against Omicron variant. Not enough experience yet to give an opinion on vaccine effect.
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Imagine being the guy constantly trying to tell 4.2 billion people have made the wrong choice to get vaccinated.
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Imagine being the guy constantly trying to tell 4.2 billion people have made the wrong choice to get vaccinated.
I’m one of those 4.2 billion and never said it was a mistake. I can just understand why someone who has natural immunity doesn’t want to get it and I don’t believe they should have to too keep their job, travel, etc.
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The gap between case rates and death rates between blue counties and red counties is widening.
https://donmoynihan.substack.com/p/fox-news-is-killing-us-here-are-the
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I’m one of those 4.2 billion and never said it was a mistake. I can just understand why someone who has natural immunity doesn’t want to get it and I don’t believe they should have to too keep their job, travel, etc.
You can travel if you demonstrate recent recovery from infection. You need to get vax if it's been a while as immunity wanes.
But keep trying.
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The gap between case rates and death rates between blue counties and red counties is widening.
https://donmoynihan.substack.com/p/fox-news-is-killing-us-here-are-the
Thanks for that link Sultan.
This stuck out to me:
"The most extraordinary difference may be that just 3% of unvaccinated Republicans believe that getting vaccinated is a collective responsibility (compared to 26% of vaxxed Republicans and 81% of vaxxed Dems). The inherent nature of COVID is that it transfers from one person to another. By definition, the choices we make as individuals affect those around us. But almost no unvaccinated Republicans agree that they have some responsibility to their community in this domain."
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Once again, shoutout to home county, Montgomery County, MD, highest fully vaccinated rate for people 12+, 93%
💥
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I’m one of those 4.2 billion and never said it was a mistake. I can just understand why someone who has natural immunity doesn’t want to get it and I don’t believe they should have to too keep their job, travel, etc.
Yes, ultimately this is the view of a majority of people who will be labeled anti-vax most likely. They support decision making based on your personal risk assessment.
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Yes, ultimately this is the view of a majority of people who will be labeled anti-vax most likely. They support decision making based on your personal risk assessment....and their lack of giving a sh!t on how they affect other people.
Fixed
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Yes, ultimately this is the view of a majority of people who will be labeled anti-vax most likely. They support decision making based on your personal risk assessment.
I love libertarian brain rot.
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I love libertarian brain rot.
Saw a good assessment of libertarians on twitter (paraphrasing so I may not get it quite right):
libertarians are like housecats, they both fiercely claim their independence while simultaneously being utterly dependent on a system they neither acknowledge nor comprehend.
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Line of the day by the head of a health care organization holding a press conference about the lack of available beds and the burnout of his employees.....
"Get vaccinated or get COVID."
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Once again, shoutout to home county, Montgomery County, MD, highest fully vaccinated rate for people 12+, 93%
💥
That's impressive, you can get back to licking sneeze guards again (if you're into that sort of thing)!
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Line of the day by the head of a health care organization holding a press conference about the lack of available beds and the burnout of his employees.....
"Get vaccinated or get COVID."
That doesn't align at all with what pace knows to be true
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Probably just a coincidence ...
Since May 2021, people living in counties that voted heavily for Donald Trump during the last presidential election have been nearly three times as likely to die from COVID-19 as those who live in areas that went for now-President Biden. That's according to a new analysis by NPR that examines how political polarization and misinformation are driving a significant share of the deaths in the pandemic.
NPR looked at deaths per 100,000 people in roughly 3,000 counties across the U.S. from May 2021, the point at which vaccinations widely became available. People living in counties that went 60% or higher for Trump in November 2020 had 2.78 times the death rates of those that went for Biden. Counties with an even higher share of the vote for Trump saw higher COVID-19 mortality rates.
The data also reveal a major contributing factor to the death rate difference: The higher the vote share for Trump, the lower the vaccination rate.
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/12/05/1059828993/data-vaccine-misinformation-trump-counties-covid-death-rate
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Well sure, reviewing 100k deaths and looking for data-based trends is one thing, but have you considered the possibility that many people are saying the exact opposite thing? Stop being such a nerdy-nerd and listen to this thing that some people are telling a person who has demonstrated their character for truthfulness thoroughly.
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Probably just a coincidence ...
Since May 2021, people living in counties that voted heavily for Donald Trump during the last presidential election have been nearly three times as likely to die from COVID-19 as those who live in areas that went for now-President Biden. That's according to a new analysis by NPR that examines how political polarization and misinformation are driving a significant share of the deaths in the pandemic.
NPR looked at deaths per 100,000 people in roughly 3,000 counties across the U.S. from May 2021, the point at which vaccinations widely became available. People living in counties that went 60% or higher for Trump in November 2020 had 2.78 times the death rates of those that went for Biden. Counties with an even higher share of the vote for Trump saw higher COVID-19 mortality rates.
The data also reveal a major contributing factor to the death rate difference: The higher the vote share for Trump, the lower the vaccination rate.
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/12/05/1059828993/data-vaccine-misinformation-trump-counties-covid-death-rate
Can you imagine Fox's messaging if Trump has managed to pull off his coup and was successful in subverting democracy?
They'd be promoting the "Trump vaccine" nonstop, telling their viewers how patriotic it is to get vaccinated and "save America" and how getting your booster was a great way to "stick it to the libs".
And the dopes would eat it up.
Instead, they are happily killing a small portion of their viewers in counties where they can afford to lose some votes as keeping their base in a state of perpetual resentment is far more beneficial politically.
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Glad this dirtbag criminal, who was selling fake vax cards, got caught and likely will serve time.
https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/coronavirus/article256376477.html?ac_cid=DM575568&ac_bid=-1728899883
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That story had everything, what a ride.
Also, COVID being misspelled is hilarious and the most Chinese knockoff thing ever
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I am starting to question that young man's judgment
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Maybe him and the waukesha lunatic can record an album together whilst in the slammer.
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Maybe him and the waukesha lunatic can record an album together whilst in the slammer.
Ziggy’s been waiting a week or so to drop this one.
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Ziggy’s been waiting a week or so to drop this one.
The article about the child molester/covid forger was posted today, so no.
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The article about the child molester/covid forger was posted today, so no.
You are so desperate to be funny…and change the subject.
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Pfizer booster provides protection against omicron.
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Someone tell Pace...
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/wisconsin/articles/2021-12-02/wisconsin-covid-patients-packing-hospitals-no-omicron-yet
"Dr. Ashok Rai, president and CEO of Prevea Health said almost 20% of the beds in his health care system, which serves northeast and western Wisconsin, are taken up by COVID-19 patients. Virtually every patient is not vaccinated, he said.
“They are the ones not only using the highest amount of resources but staying the longest," Rai said. “Unfortunately our health care systems are overwhelmed right now.”
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Someone tell Pace...
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/wisconsin/articles/2021-12-02/wisconsin-covid-patients-packing-hospitals-no-omicron-yet
"Dr. Ashok Rai, president and CEO of Prevea Health said almost 20% of the beds in his health care system, which serves northeast and western Wisconsin, are taken up by COVID-19 patients. Virtually every patient is not vaccinated, he said.
“They are the ones not only using the highest amount of resources but staying the longest," Rai said. “Unfortunately our health care systems are overwhelmed right now.”
Cue the posting of link from unreliably sourced article and/or article that doesn't say what chicos2 thinks it does in 3, 2, 1 ...
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Someone tell Pace...
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/wisconsin/articles/2021-12-02/wisconsin-covid-patients-packing-hospitals-no-omicron-yet
"Dr. Ashok Rai, president and CEO of Prevea Health said almost 20% of the beds in his health care system, which serves northeast and western Wisconsin, are taken up by COVID-19 patients. Virtually every patient is not vaccinated, he said.
“They are the ones not only using the highest amount of resources but staying the longest," Rai said. “Unfortunately our health care systems are overwhelmed right now.”
But that is not what some random nurse that may or may not be real said.
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Seems like some would be more comfortable in TN:
Tennessee Board of Medical Examiners Removes Covid Misinformation Warning
“Tennessee’s medical licensing board voted Tuesday to delete a policy opposing coronavirus misinformation from its website due to fears a powerful conservative lawmaker would otherwise dissolve the board and replace its members,” the Tennessean reports.
“The policy, unanimously adopted by the Board of Medical Examiners in September, establishes that doctors who spread demonstrably untrue information about Covid-19 vaccines could have their licenses suspended or potentially revoked. Members voted 7 to 3 to delete — but not rescind — the policy.”
https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/health/2021/12/07/medical-board-deletes-anti-misinformation-policy-amid-gop-pressure/6416959001/
See no virus, hear no virus, there is no virus to speak of!!!!!
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Pfizer booster provides protection against omicron.
Interesting data coming out of the NYC comic-con (so similar to omicron), where a lot of those infected were fully vaccinated and boosted.
So it would seem that the vaccines are not providing great protection from infection/transmission. But all cases very mild, so protection against severe illness.
That is a great thing. Also, I'm optimistic this variant will be milder in general, but the risk is always that it gains new mutations that make it more severe.
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Follow up: The drastic reduction in efficacy of the vaccines and the corresponding decrease in affinity of neutralizing antibodies to the spike protein (up to 40x decrease) is not surprising given the location and number of mutations. I mentioned previously, that this was largely the cause for concern.
The intriguing aspect, though, is that those same amino acids (which are mutated) are super important for interaction with ACE2 to gain cell entry. It should also decrease the affinity of that interaction significantly. How the pathogenicity of this variant increased is intriguing and reveals that either dynamics of this interaction, or other compensatory factors are aiding pathogenicity. Which factors are dictating this is quite intriguing (and something we are looking into currently).
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Follow up: The drastic reduction in efficacy of the vaccines and the corresponding decrease in affinity of neutralizing antibodies to the spike protein (up to 40x decrease) is not surprising given the location and number of mutations. I mentioned previously, that this was largely the cause for concern.
The bolded above seems to conflict with the news from PFE today (yes, not exactly the most unbiased source) that their booster protects against the variant.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/pfizer-biontech-says-booster-protects-against-omicron/ar-AARBW5l?ocid=uxbndlbing
Isn't the booster formulation the same as the first two shots? Just a case of more vaccine works better than less?
EDIT: I guess the bolded doesn't exactly conflict with the story as I re-read it. Two doses does supposedly have a significantly decreased effect whereas 3 doses provides the same protection again Omi as two doses did against the original.
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The bolded above seems to conflict with the news from PFE today (yes, not exactly the most unbiased source) that their booster protects against the variant.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/pfizer-biontech-says-booster-protects-against-omicron/ar-AARBW5l?ocid=uxbndlbing
Isn't the booster formulation the same as the first two shots? Just a case of more vaccine works better than less?
EDIT: I guess the bolded doesn't exactly conflict with the story as I re-read it. Two doses does supposedly have a significantly decreased effect whereas 3 doses provides the same protection again Omi as two doses did against the original.
I don't think that's the thought process behind boosters. I think that in the immediate wake of challenge via booster, the immune system maintains a quantity of circulating antibodies. Eventually those fade, and you're left with memory-cell-mediated immunity. That means that after some period of time, when you're no longer walking around with circulating antibodies, you encounter the virus, the virus has a better chance of establishing a foothold infection while your memory cells fire up the antibodies to clear the infection. This leads to more breakthrough infections, but milder cases.
The booster shot just tops off those circulating antibodies and makes it less likely for an exposure to get a foothold, so to speak.
Similarly, I've seen reasonable proposed studies for 2-dose flu shots. Shot 1 in early October, Shot 2 in early January, hypothesized moa of maintaining that antibody-based immunity.
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Pfizer and Moderna recommended the booster as their data showed reduced effectiveness over time. Just as natural immunity wanes over time. Pfizer says their booster jacks up the immunity enough to be effective against omicron. To my meager logic skills, it seems fairly straightforward.
I fully expect there will be annual or semi-annual boosters for the next few years.
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https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.standard.co.uk/news/health/post-pandemic-stress-disorder-heart-conditions-covid-london-physicians-b969436.html%3famp
Post pandemic stress disorder causing heart problems in primarily a younger demographic, seemingly not as common among older adults? Seems unlikely to just be caused by stress doesn’t it?
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Honest question, not trolling here. Why do some diseases/viruses need boosters and others that we were vaccinated for in our youth do not? I saw a post on twitter that said there is a difference between disease and virus. What? That made little sense. Someone much brighter than I can hopefully clear this up for me. TIA
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Pfizer and Moderna recommended the booster as their data showed reduced effectiveness over time. Just as natural immunity wanes over time. Pfizer says their booster jacks up the immunity enough to be effective against omicron. To my meager logic skills, it seems fairly straightforward.
I fully expect there will be annual or semi-annual boosters for the next few years.
Personally, I have a tough time wading through the science vs finances here. It sure makes me look a little closer at the data when pharm CEOs are telling their shareholders how good their profits are gonna be because of boosters and annual vaccinations.
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Honest question, not trolling here. Why do some diseases/viruses need boosters and others that we were vaccinated for in our youth do not? I saw a post on twitter that said there is a difference between disease and virus. What? That made little sense. Someone much brighter than I can hopefully clear this up for me. TIA
Most childhood immunizations consisted of multiple shots, occasionally with boosters. For instance, the polio vaccine is a four shot regimen, DTaP is five, etc.
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The profits are going to be large. But they spent a lot and developed a vaccine comparatively fast. They invested in R&D and are going to get paid. While I understand the underlying instinctive distrust of big pharma, other than ivermectin, what is the alternative? This is the once in a century killer virus. Until the next one.
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The profits are going to be large. But they spent a lot and developed a vaccine comparatively fast. They invested in R&D and are going to get paid. While I understand the underlying instinctive distrust of big pharma, other than ivermectin, what is the alternative? This is the once in a century killer virus. Until the next one.
Honestly, develop more competition via subsidies. Competition drives prices down.
I'll keep the rest of my nationalized health insurance thoughts to myself.
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I don't think that's the thought process behind boosters. I think that in the immediate wake of challenge via booster, the immune system maintains a quantity of circulating antibodies. Eventually those fade, and you're left with memory-cell-mediated immunity. That means that after some period of time, when you're no longer walking around with circulating antibodies, you encounter the virus, the virus has a better chance of establishing a foothold infection while your memory cells fire up the antibodies to clear the infection. This leads to more breakthrough infections, but milder cases.
The booster shot just tops off those circulating antibodies and makes it less likely for an exposure to get a foothold, so to speak.
Similarly, I've seen reasonable proposed studies for 2-dose flu shots. Shot 1 in early October, Shot 2 in early January, hypothesized moa of maintaining that antibody-based immunity.
Perhaps it is a case of the article not being written clearly, but they aren't saying the booster is effective because the effect from the first two doses has begun to fade. It is possible that is what they mean, but to me that isn't stated clearly in the article.
It seems to be that the implication is that it is the 3rd shot that increases a person's immunity levels enough to fight Omi, not the recency of the shots.
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The profits are going to be large. But they spent a lot and developed a vaccine comparatively fast. They invested in R&D and are going to get paid. While I understand the underlying instinctive distrust of big pharma, other than ivermectin, what is the alternative? This is the once in a century killer virus. Until the next one.
1. How much did the pharma companies actually spend on R/D vs how much was subsidized by the feds?
2. I'm not saying to seek out "alternatives", but it seems awfully convenient that every time one of these execs speak, they're saying how we probably need more shots for each person. Ironic that today Pfizer says 4 is the number.
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1. How much did the pharma companies actually spend on R/D vs how much was subsidized by the feds?
2. I'm not saying to seek out "alternatives", but it seems awfully convenient that every time one of these execs speak, they're saying how we probably need more shots for each person. Ironic that today Pfizer says 4 is the number.
I'm reasonably skeptical of pharma in that I expect them to be appropriately regulated, but its not like they're willing this into existence - there's a process for this that gets extensively reviewed. Public policy (Mandates, sending vaccines to poorer countries) has to pick up their baton too.
Regarding R&D subsidies, Pfizer explicitly did not take funding under Warp Speed so it could internalize the profits. That said, the government has spent BILLIONS on mRNA, which is really like a platform upon which the vaccines are built.
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https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/12/05/1059828993/data-vaccine-misinformation-trump-counties-covid-death-rate
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"It was not always this way. Earlier in the pandemic, many different groups expressed hesitancy toward getting vaccinated. African Americans, younger Americans and rural Americans all had significant portions of their demographic that resisted vaccination. But over time, the vaccination rates in those demographics have risen, while the rate of Republican vaccination against COVID-19 has flatlined at just 59%, according to the latest numbers from Kaiser. By comparison, 91% of Democrats are vaccinated."
It's too bad that the main news sources for this group are more invested in fighting culture wars than keeping their viewers healthy.
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Supreme Court just ruled 6-3 that New York's vaccine mandate for health care workers does not need to include a religious exemption.
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Kroger to take away paid Covid benefits, add insurance surcharges for unvaccinated employees
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/12/14/kroger-to-eliminate-some-covid-19-benefits-for-unvaccinated-employees-wsj-reports-.html
"Kroger said Tuesday that it will take away paid leave for unvaccinated employees who get Covid-19 and require some of them to pay a monthly health insurance surcharge starting next year.
Starting next year, salaried, nonunion employees who are unvaccinated and enrolled in the company’s health insurance plan must pay a monthly $50 surcharge, the company spokeswoman said. But employees who are fully vaccinated are eligible for paid Covid leave, if they get a breakthrough case."
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Kroger to take away paid Covid benefits, add insurance surcharges for unvaccinated employees
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/12/14/kroger-to-eliminate-some-covid-19-benefits-for-unvaccinated-employees-wsj-reports-.html
"Kroger said Tuesday that it will take away paid leave for unvaccinated employees who get Covid-19 and require some of them to pay a monthly health insurance surcharge starting next year.
Starting next year, salaried, nonunion employees who are unvaccinated and enrolled in the company’s health insurance plan must pay a monthly $50 surcharge, the company spokeswoman said. But employees who are fully vaccinated are eligible for paid Covid leave, if they get a breakthrough case."
Ah. Classic corporate America. Going for the stick, not carrot. Basically, whatever saves them a buck
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Ah. Classic corporate America. Going for the stick, not carrot. Basically, whatever saves them a buck
Hold on, this sub board is constantly mocking and bit**ing about the unvaxxed, now we’re complaining that a company is punishing people for not being vaccinated? Cause they aren’t giving people Visa gift cards to get a shot at this point?
Feels like you just always are looking for a way to complain about businessand frame them all as greedy when you think they should be altruistic
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Hold on, this sub board is constantly mocking and bit**ing about the unvaxxed, now we’re complaining that a company is punishing people for not being vaccinated? Cause they aren’t giving people Visa gift cards to get a shot at this point?
Feels like you just always are looking for a way to complain about businessand frame them all as greedy when you think they should be altruistic
100% on me
I grazed the headline and responded. Assumed the "take away paid covid benefits" was removing something positive for all employees during the pandemic. Just read the full story now.
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Ah. Classic corporate America. Going for the stick, not carrot. Basically, whatever saves them a buck
If you read the story, the started with the carrot ($100 for getting vaccinated) and still have the carrot (still $100 for getting vaccinated). The carrot doesn't persuade the remaining hardliners.
This is a common story amongst my clients. Most all have tried the carrot and have moved on to the stick.
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100% on me
I grazed the headline and responded. Assumed the "take away paid covid benefits" was removing something positive for all employees during the pandemic. Just read the full story now.
All good, appreciate the correction 🤙🏼
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what about people with elective comorbidities? smokers with copd, fat people, alcoholics, drug addicts, etc...throw em to the wolves, eyn'er?
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what about people with elective comorbidities? smokers with copd, fat people, alcoholics, drug addicts, etc...throw em to the wolves, eyn'er?
Large companies already charge smokers a surcharge, just like Kroger is proposing for anti-vax morons.
They also routinely offer EAP programs for weight loss, smoking cessation, and drug abuse. Currently there is no EAP program to help people with right wing misinformation regarding vaccines, but maybe that will be the next innovation.
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Large companies already charge smokers a surcharge, just like Kroger is proposing for anti-vax morons.
They also routinely offer EAP programs for weight loss, smoking cessation, and drug abuse. Currently there is no EAP program to help people with right wing misinformation regarding vaccines, but maybe that will be the next innovation.
I think we need to stop calling it "misinformation" and call it what it is -- disinformation.
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I think we need to stop calling it "misinformation" and call it what it is -- disinformation.
yeah, sorry, my typo
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Large companies already charge smokers a surcharge, just like Kroger is proposing for anti-vax morons.
They also routinely offer EAP programs for weight loss, smoking cessation, and drug abuse. Currently there is no EAP program to help people with right wing misinformation regarding vaccines, but maybe that will be the next innovation.
Yes because a young person who already had COVID and decides the calculus doesn’t clearly add up to a clear favorability to take it is a dumb anti-vaxxer ::)
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Yes because a young person who already had COVID and decides the calculus doesn’t clearly add up to a clear favorability to take it is a dumb anti-vaxxer ::)
That’s correct
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I think you should hold true to your beliefs, Statnik.
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Yes because a young person who already had COVID and decides the calculus doesn’t clearly add up to a clear favorability to take it is a dumb anti-vaxxer ::)
This is true. The calculus always says getting the shot is the correct decision assuming you don’t have health reasons preventing you from doing so.
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Yes because a young person who already had COVID and decides the calculus doesn’t clearly add up to a clear favorability to take it is a dumb anti-vaxxer ::)
Actually they are really bad at math and probabilities, apparently.
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As discussed back here ..
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=60399.msg1376627#msg1376627
I am delighted to see Kroger following Delta on a Covid surcharge, although they should have matched Delta's $200/month upcharge and not $50.
TONS of companies have a two tier health insurance program, many with smoker/non-smoker rates, and some with "health points" that earn you the discounted rate, my company included.
Totally makes sense to add vax status as a tier. It's raining out, free umbrellas everywhere to keep you dry.
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This is true. The calculus always says getting the shot is the correct decision assuming you don’t have health reasons preventing you from doing so.
It is false, especially in the high school/college age group where there are more reports of blood clots/myocarditis as a result of these vaccines. If they knew more about the reason or those most at-risk in that age range they could probably eliminate that risk but as of now they don’t. Anyone who has already been infected in that age range has such a low chance of a negative outcome in the future if they happen to catch it again that it’s not worth the small risk of side effects/heart issues for a lot of them.
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It is false, especially in the high school/college age group where there are more reports of blood clots/myocarditis as a result of these vaccines. If they knew more about the reason or those most at-risk in that age range they could probably eliminate that risk but as of now they don’t. Anyone who has already been infected in that age range has such a low chance of a negative outcome in the future if they happen to catch it again that it’s not worth the small risk of side effects/heart issues for a lot of them.
and what's your take on that demographic that has NOT had covid yet?
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and what's your take on that demographic that has NOT had covid yet?
If they’re older/at higher risk due to their current health they should definitely get it. That said, since it’s available to everyone who wants it they should not be forced to. I wouldn’t be opposed to them having lower priority at hospitals if they end up getting really sick with COVID (I’d prefer that strategy than hiking up their insurance costs).
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It is false, especially in the high school/college age group where there are more reports of blood clots/myocarditis as a result of these vaccines.
We've been through this, but you seem to be forgetting an important data point:
"We estimated between 1 and 10 extra events of myocarditis in 1 million people vaccinated with a first or second dose, but 40 extra cases in 1 million people infected with COVID-19," Oxford professor and study lead Julia Hippisley-Cox said.
https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/heart-condition-risk-higher-after-covid-19-illness-than-vaccines-uk-study-2021-12-14/
So, you'd rather natual infection, but it has a higher rate of heart conditions.
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If they’re older/at higher risk due to their current health they should definitely get it. That said, since it’s available to everyone who wants it they should not be forced to. I wouldn’t be opposed to them having lower priority at hospitals if they end up getting really sick with COVID (I’d prefer that strategy than hiking up their insurance costs).
Would you have said that people who didn't want to get the smallpox vaccine shouldn't have been forced to get it?
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We've been through this, but you seem to be forgetting an important data point:https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/heart-condition-risk-higher-after-covid-19-illness-than-vaccines-uk-study-2021-12-14/
So, you'd rather natual infection, but it has a higher rate of heart conditions.
Exactly. Must be terrible at math and probabilities.
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We've been through this, but you seem to be forgetting an important data point:https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/heart-condition-risk-higher-after-covid-19-illness-than-vaccines-uk-study-2021-12-14/
So, you'd rather natual infection, but it has a higher rate of heart conditions.
Disingenuous or lacking in knowledge?
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Ah. Classic corporate America. Going for the stick, not carrot. Basically, whatever saves them a buck
Nah, they've had their time. I'm 100% on board with Kroger on this one.
edit: didn't see your correction. :)
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Nah, they've had their time. I'm 100% on board with Kroger on this one.
edit: didn't see your correction. :)
You're such a cracker
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Former Panthers All-Pro Thomas Davis on why he, his wife and their 4 kids are vaccinated:
We’re all vaccinated. Sitting in our house back when COVID was going on and not being able to go out, not being able to do the things we all had become accustomed to doing on a daily basis, once the vaccination came available to me, it was a no-brainer. I got mine early and really looking forward to going and getting my booster shot. Because I understand that when you get vaccinated, it’s not only about protecting you. I have a mom that’s very high-risk and I would be devastated if I went out and I would say selfishly not gotten vaccinated and did something that would jeopardize her life or her well-being, I wouldn’t be able to live with myself.
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You're such a cracker
Oh you banned
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Former Panthers All-Pro Thomas Davis on why he, his wife and their 4 kids are vaccinated:
We’re all vaccinated. Sitting in our house back when COVID was going on and not being able to go out, not being able to do the things we all had become accustomed to doing on a daily basis, once the vaccination came available to me, it was a no-brainer. I got mine early and really looking forward to going and getting my booster shot. Because I understand that when you get vaccinated, it’s not only about protecting you. I have a mom that’s very high-risk and I would be devastated if I went out and I would say selfishly not gotten vaccinated and did something that would jeopardize her life or her well-being, I wouldn’t be able to live with myself.
Has anyone told him he can still contract covid and transmit covid while fully vaccinated? Maybe Mom needs to be the one taking extra precautions, aina?
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Has anyone told him he can still contract covid and transmit covid while fully vaccinated? Maybe Mom needs to be the one taking extra precautions, aina?
Your logic: A stray bullet might just hit you in your home even if you're not playing Russian roulette. Given that the chance of the adverse event in question (being shot) > 0, there's no reason whatsoever to minimize that risk. Therefore there's no reason *not* to play Russian Roulette.
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It is false, especially in the high school/college age group where there are more reports of blood clots/myocarditis as a result of these vaccines. If they knew more about the reason or those most at-risk in that age range they could probably eliminate that risk but as of now they don’t. Anyone who has already been infected in that age range has such a low chance of a negative outcome in the future if they happen to catch it again that it’s not worth the small risk of side effects/heart issues for a lot of them.
This is false. Pants on fire false. You know what gives you a higher chance of myocarditis and blood clots? Getting Covid.
Stop being ignorant and stop spreading misinformation. YOU are part of the main reason we are still in this mess. Get vaccinated. It's safe. It's effective.
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The riskier part is once vaccinated, the symptoms can be so mild that, unless tested, you may not even be aware that you are covid +, hey?
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The riskier part is once vaccinated, the symptoms can be so mild that, unless tested, you may not even be aware that you are covid +, hey?
That’s why I wouldn’t get vaxxed. I want the full covid experience. Hoping for a ventilator. Fingers crossed
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The riskier part is once vaccinated, the symptoms can be so mild that, unless tested, you may not even be aware that you are covid +, hey?
Holy crap, this is a take of a quasi-medical professional.
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Exactly. Must be terrible at math and probabilities.
He did say he was doing calculus, not mathematics that would actually apply to the situation.
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Imaginary numbers?
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Has anyone told him he can still contract covid and transmit covid while fully vaccinated? Maybe Mom needs to be the one taking extra precautions, aina?
Saying vaxxed and unvaxxed have the same risk of transmitting, is like saying you and I are both equally able to work on teeth.
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Would you have said that people who didn't want to get the smallpox vaccine shouldn't have been forced to get it?
Was the smallpox vaccine developed so quickly without basically any testing? Also it’d be different if it was more like the Spanish Flu where younger people consistently had worse outcomes actually due to their swift immune system.
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The technology behind the vaccines dates to Bush's first term. Then it is a matter of adapting to the specific virus.
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Was the smallpox vaccine developed so quickly without basically any testing? Also it’d be different if it was more like the Spanish Flu where younger people consistently had worse outcomes actually due to their swift immune system.
Tell me you are lost in the sauce without telling me you're lost in the sauce.
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"Untested, rushed vaccine."
These people are willing to ingest hydroxy because a reality TV star tells them to, and a horse de-wormer because conspiracy theorists push it. But a proven, life-saving, CDC-approved, FDA-approved vaccine that actually could help us get out from under the grip of this virus? No way!
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Yeah the idea this is some sort of unproven vaccine maybe made some sense a year ago. But it's not only safe, but incredibly effective. At this point, people are either dumb or willfully ignorant. Or both.
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Was the smallpox vaccine developed so quickly without basically any testing? Also it’d be different if it was more like the Spanish Flu where younger people consistently had worse outcomes actually due to their swift immune system.
How do you feel about untested covid treatments?
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Was the smallpox vaccine developed so quickly without basically any testing? Also it’d be different if it was more like the Spanish Flu where younger people consistently had worse outcomes actually due to their swift immune system.
Here's your homework for the day. I must apologize in advance - there's not a lot of pictures and I couldn't figure out how to translate this into a series of Facebook memes, but I'm sure you'll manage.
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejmoa2034577
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More stuff we already know, from the NYT:
"Tucker Carlson could do it. So could Laura Ingraham, Mark Levin or Donald Trump himself.
One of these conservative figures could go on the air and explain that the Omicron variant has placed much of their audience in grave danger. They could remind people that they have been skeptical of vaccines at times — but that Omicron is different. It is so contagious that it may quickly sweep the country.
As they issued this warning, they could still take their usual swipes at the political left, mocking panicky liberals for wearing masks outdoors and forcing children to sit apart in cold schoolyards. Conservatives don’t need to do any of that; they just need to take a Covid-19 vaccine — the “Trump vaccine” that could save their life.
(https://images2.imgbox.com/07/27/y4VzxM4y_o.png) (https://imgbox.com/y4VzxM4y)
Vaccine skepticism stems in part from messages on social media and conservative outlets like Fox News, the Sinclair Broadcast Group and talk radio. Pundits on these platforms often stop short of telling people not to get vaccinated, even as they send a general negative message about the shots.
They criticize vaccine mandates, sensationalize rare side effects and describe vaccination as a personal choice. They certainly do not deliver the clear message that scientists and Democratic politicians have: Get vaccinated, please, as soon as possible.
For the unvaccinated, however, the best medical advice is clear: Get a shot that may save your life. The question is whether unvaccinated Americans will hear that message from the voices they trust."
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More stuff we already know, from the NYT:
"Tucker Carlson could do it. So could Laura Ingraham, Mark Levin or Donald Trump himself.
One of these conservative figures could go on the air and explain that the Omicron variant has placed much of their audience in grave danger. They could remind people that they have been skeptical of vaccines at times — but that Omicron is different. It is so contagious that it may quickly sweep the country.
As they issued this warning, they could still take their usual swipes at the political left, mocking panicky liberals for wearing masks outdoors and forcing children to sit apart in cold schoolyards. Conservatives don’t need to do any of that; they just need to take a Covid-19 vaccine — the “Trump vaccine” that could save their life.
(https://images2.imgbox.com/07/27/y4VzxM4y_o.png) (https://imgbox.com/y4VzxM4y)
Vaccine skepticism stems in part from messages on social media and conservative outlets like Fox News, the Sinclair Broadcast Group and talk radio. Pundits on these platforms often stop short of telling people not to get vaccinated, even as they send a general negative message about the shots.
They criticize vaccine mandates, sensationalize rare side effects and describe vaccination as a personal choice. They certainly do not deliver the clear message that scientists and Democratic politicians have: Get vaccinated, please, as soon as possible.
For the unvaccinated, however, the best medical advice is clear: Get a shot that may save your life. The question is whether unvaccinated Americans will hear that message from the voices they trust."
And the irony that's somehow lost on the anti-vax cultists is that the pundits and politicians they bow to are themselves vaccinated -- either because their employers mandate it, because they don't want to die, or both.
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More stuff we already know, from the NYT:
"Tucker Carlson could do it. So could Laura Ingraham, Mark Levin or Donald Trump himself.
One of these conservative figures could go on the air and explain that the Omicron variant has placed much of their audience in grave danger. They could remind people that they have been skeptical of vaccines at times — but that Omicron is different. It is so contagious that it may quickly sweep the country.
As they issued this warning, they could still take their usual swipes at the political left, mocking panicky liberals for wearing masks outdoors and forcing children to sit apart in cold schoolyards. Conservatives don’t need to do any of that; they just need to take a Covid-19 vaccine — the “Trump vaccine” that could save their life.
(https://images2.imgbox.com/07/27/y4VzxM4y_o.png) (https://imgbox.com/y4VzxM4y)
Vaccine skepticism stems in part from messages on social media and conservative outlets like Fox News, the Sinclair Broadcast Group and talk radio. Pundits on these platforms often stop short of telling people not to get vaccinated, even as they send a general negative message about the shots.
They criticize vaccine mandates, sensationalize rare side effects and describe vaccination as a personal choice. They certainly do not deliver the clear message that scientists and Democratic politicians have: Get vaccinated, please, as soon as possible.
For the unvaccinated, however, the best medical advice is clear: Get a shot that may save your life. The question is whether unvaccinated Americans will hear that message from the voices they trust."
Maybe the pro mandate proponents should also change their message and be more honest that the vaccines at this point will likely only make a difference in severity, but that you shouldn’t be partying and going out when you feel sick, even if vaxxed. Mark my words, a lot of that is going on due to those taking the vaccine thinking they’ve done their part and that they’re much safer from the Omnicron variant when it’s too early to know.
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Maybe the pro mandate proponents should also change their message and be more honest that the vaccines at this point will likely only make a difference in severity, but that you shouldn’t be partying and going out when you feel sick, even if vaxxed. Mark my words, a lot of that is going on due to those taking the vaccine thinking they’ve done their part and that they’re much safer from the Omnicron variant when it’s too early to know.
Vaccines help significantly lower the chance of contracting Covid including with Delta (the current wave we're experiencing in the Midwest). That's the truth whether you believe in it or not. Just like masks help to decrease viral load.
Since we're being honest.
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Vaccines help significantly lower the chance of transmission of Covid including with Delta (the current wave we're experiencing in the Midwest). That's the truth whether you believe in it or not. Just like masks help to decrease viral load.
Since we're being honest.
He said to mark his words tho.
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Maybe the pro mandate proponents should also change their message and be more honest that the vaccines at this point will likely only make a difference in severity, but that you shouldn’t be partying and going out when you feel sick, even if vaxxed. Mark my words, a lot of that is going on due to those taking the vaccine thinking they’ve done their part and that they’re much safer from the Omnicron variant when it’s too early to know.
Congrats on your son graduating from Marquette and getting sworn into Army OCS.
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Maybe the pro mandate proponents should also change their message and be more honest that the vaccines at this point will likely only make a difference in severity, but that you shouldn’t be partying and going out when you feel sick, even if vaxxed. Mark my words, a lot of that is going on due to those taking the vaccine thinking they’ve done their part and that they’re much safer from the Omnicron variant when it’s too early to know.
Ummm, yes. The severity of dead vs. not dead.
But at this point you are only interested in spreading disinformation, so good job, Tucker.
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They have been saying that, as more data cones out. And they’ve always told people to stay home if you don’t feel well.
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Former President Donald J. Trump, who for years falsely claimed vaccines were dangerous and pointedly declined to be seen getting vaccinated against Covid-19 while in office, was booed at an event in Dallas after saying publicly for the first time that he had received a booster shot.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/20/world/trump-supporters-booster-shots.html?campaign_id=4&emc=edit_dk_20211221&instance_id=48354&nl=dealbook®i_id=108420427&segment_id=77558&te=1&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa
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Former President Donald J. Trump, who for years falsely claimed vaccines were dangerous and pointedly declined to be seen getting vaccinated against Covid-19 while in office, was booed at an event in Dallas after saying publicly for the first time that he had received a booster shot.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/20/world/trump-supporters-booster-shots.html?campaign_id=4&emc=edit_dk_20211221&instance_id=48354&nl=dealbook®i_id=108420427&segment_id=77558&te=1&user_id=d36dcf821462fdd16ec3636710a855fa
That was his clone.
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A new vaccine .. very interesting. Hope it tests out and is approved.
https://www.defenseone.com/technology/2021/12/us-army-creates-single-vaccine-effective-against-all-covid-sars-variants/360089/
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Maybe da teachers in Whitefolks Bay won't
haveta quit, aina?
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Nah. Karens will still drive them out.
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Nah. Karens will still drive them out.
TBH .. when my wife worked there (different district now) .. for the most part, very few parents were problematic.
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That was his clone.
In his speech yesterday, Biden said he appreciated that Trump publicly stated he had received a booster, and also said: "Thanks to the prior administration and the scientific community, America is one of the first countries to get the vaccine.”
Will that convince any holdouts to get the shot? Maybe, maybe not, but it was worth a try, because we know the majority of anti-vaxxers were Trump voters.
Biden is trying everything he can -- including praising his predecessor when warranted -- to get vaccines in as many arms as possible.
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I agree. Try everything possible. I don’t even care if they go tell the holdouts to specifically take the Trump vaccine, if it gets them to do it.
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Biden is trying everything he can -- including praising his predecessor when warranted -- to get vaccines in as many arms as possible.
Great that he’s finally doing that. Could have been done a year ago. Too bad there was all that nonsense about not getting the “Trump vaccine” (as if Donald Trump controlled the FDA) that originally politicized the process and further polarized the country. Also too bad that some in right wing media provided cover for the stubborn/foolish who resisted being vaxxed.
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Great that he’s finally doing that. Could have been done a year ago. Too bad there was all that nonsense about not getting the “Trump vaccine” (as if Donald Trump controlled the FDA) that originally politicized the process and further polarized the country. Also too bad that some in right wing media provided cover for the stubborn/foolish who resisted being vaxxed.
You're right about the right-wing media, of course. And they're still doing it.
As for the first part ... as much as you and others want to push that "nonsense" narrative ... there is not a single right-wing anti-vaxxer who rejected the vaccine because of what Biden and/or Harris said about trusting the doctors rather than a proven liar. While Trump got his shot on the down-low, Harris and Biden publicly got theirs; while Biden has relentlessly pushed boosters, Trump publicly said he "probably won't get one." Which of course turned out to be another lie ... because he wants to stay alive.
What's really great is Trump finally kinda-promoting the vaccine that his followers want to give him credit for inventing. Maybe if he spent the last 11 months pushing his reluctant sheeple to get vaccinated rather than pushing lie after lie after lie about voter fraud, this country would be in a lot better shape medically, economically and emotionally.
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Great that he’s finally doing that. Could have been done a year ago. Too bad there was all that nonsense about not getting the “Trump vaccine” (as if Donald Trump controlled the FDA) that originally politicized the process and further polarized the country. Also too bad that some in right wing media provided cover for the stubborn/foolish who resisted being vaxxed.
A mere drop in a the flood of a larger misinformation campaign. Either you know that and are being intentionally disingenuous or you are too far gone for serious discussion.
Which is it?
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A mere drop in a the flood of a larger misinformation campaign. Either you know that and are being intentionally disingenuous or you are too far gone for serious discussion.
Which is it?
B.
I’m too far gone for serious discussions - with idiots like you.
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A mere drop in a the flood of a larger misinformation campaign. Either you know that and are being intentionally disingenuous or you are too far gone for serious discussion.
Which is it?
Yeah, the cherrypicking of Dems skeptical quotes from before a vaccine was even available about being careful about taking the medical advice of a guy who went on to promote injecting bleach and taking horse dewormer is really played out.
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Yeah, the cherrypicking of Dems skeptical quotes from before a vaccine was even available about being careful about taking the medical advice of a guy who went on to promote injecting bleach and taking horse dewormer is really played out.
Right. Blaming dems comments from a year ago for current vaccine hesitancy is…something.
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Yeah, the cherrypicking of Dems skeptical quotes from before a vaccine was even available about being careful about taking the medical advice of a guy who went on to promote injecting bleach and taking horse dewormer is really played out.
Yup.
Biden and Harris clearly said they wouldn't take Trump's word for it when it comes to vaccines, but would take the advice of medical professionals. Any normal, rational (non-cultist) person would do the same.
The fact Lenny continues to bring up this repeatedly disproven talking point is such weak cause.
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B.
I’m too far gone for serious discussions - with idiots like you.
LOL. “I know you are but what am I.”
Really taxed the ole brain power with that one hey?
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https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-says-very-tough-him-150847158.html
Proof that Biden totally did the smart thing by saying kind words about his oredecessor.
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FDA authorizes Pfizer's COVID treatment pill.
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/12/22/1066761436/fda-authorizes-1st-antiviral-pill-for-covid
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Yeah, the cherrypicking of Dems skeptical quotes from before a vaccine was even available about being careful about taking the medical advice of a guy who went on to promote injecting bleach and taking horse dewormer is really played out.
Burrow
Harris and Biden weren’t skeptical about taking medical advice from Trump. They knew that there was no and would never be a “Trump Vaccine” pushed by the Donald that didn’t have FDA approval. They made their statements to divide and score partisan political points. Period.
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Burrow
Harris and Biden weren’t skeptical about taking medical advice from Trump. They knew that there was no and would never be a “Trump Vaccine” pushed by the Donald that didn’t have FDA approval. They made their statements to divide and score partisan political points. Period.
PERIOD!!!
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Burrow
Harris and Biden weren’t skeptical about taking medical advice from Trump. They knew that there was no and would never be a “Trump Vaccine” pushed by the Donald that didn’t have FDA approval. They made their statements to divide and score partisan political points. Period.
Yeah. Too far gone.
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PERIOD!!!
(https://c.tenor.com/rQPUqokHVlcAAAAC/timon-the-lion-king.gif)
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Burrow
Harris and Biden weren’t skeptical about taking medical advice from Trump. They knew that there was no and would never be a “Trump Vaccine” pushed by the Donald that didn’t have FDA approval. They made their statements to divide and score partisan political points. Period.
No.
I said the same thing. For the same reason. I would take no vaccine if it was approved early because of political pressure.
You are being dishonest on this, Lenny. You know exactly why people said this.
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Well, it's possible, even likely, that Biden and Harris did say what they said because it's what they actually believed AND to score political points.
As to the latter half of that ... it worked, as they ended up with 306 political points!
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No.
I said the same thing. For the same reason. I would take no vaccine if it was approved early because of political pressure.
You are being dishonest on this, Lenny. You know exactly why people said this.
LOL, Jockey. The vaccine was certainly fast tracked out of necessity. But it was never going to be approved by our top scientists before it was deemed safe. Not believing in the science had they approved it on Nov 1st rather than Dec 11 would have been as dumb as any other flat earther’s objection is today.
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LOL, Jockey. The vaccine was certainly fast tracked out of necessity. But it was never going to be approved by our top scientists before it was deemed safe. Not believing in the science had they approved it on Nov 1st rather than Dec 11 would have been as dumb as any other flat earther’s objection is today.
Not sure how the government could have approved the vaccine on 11/1 when Pfizer didn’t submit their EUA until 11/20. The US actually got “lucky” with the fall wave last year, in that it provided enough exposures in the placebo group to prove the vaccine worked. It probably would have taken a lot longer if there were less cases.
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Burrow
Harris and Biden weren’t skeptical about taking medical advice from Trump. They knew that there was no and would never be a “Trump Vaccine” pushed by the Donald that didn’t have FDA approval. They made their statements to divide and score partisan political points. Period.
Thanks for the reply Lenny. I will grant that political points certainly played some role in the motivation for their statements, but we probably differ on our interpretation of how legitimate those points were and on how harmful the statements were in terms of vaccine hesitancy.
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https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-rejects-anti-vaccine-talking-134656213.html
Trump now promoting getting vaccinated on conservative media.
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https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-rejects-anti-vaccine-talking-134656213.html
Trump now promoting getting vaccinated on conservative media.
Either his sheeple will follow or he will deal with the chaos he made
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https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-rejects-anti-vaccine-talking-134656213.html
Trump now promoting getting vaccinated on conservative media.
Good to see. Hope it works.
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Good. Only took Mr. Vaccine a year to promote the vaccines he invented.
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https://www.youtube.com/v/vD94dVu8lqQ
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Good. Only took Mr. Vaccine a year to promote the vaccines he invented.
Or he's gearing up to announce on 1/6/22 that he's running again, and polling is making him change his tune.
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Great that he’s finally doing that. Could have been done a year ago. Too bad there was all that nonsense about not getting the “Trump vaccine” (as if Donald Trump controlled the FDA) that originally politicized the process and further polarized the country. Also too bad that some in right wing media provided cover for the stubborn/foolish who resisted being vaxxed.
The right wing media did not "provide cover". That implies that the anti-vaxxers all came up with their stance on their own.
The right wing media DROVE the narrative. They've relentlessly thrown shade on the safety and effectiveness of the vaccines, despite in many cases being vaccinated themselves.
Now, figure out why they drove the narrative that they did.
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The right wing media did not "provide cover". That implies that the anti-vaxxers all came up with their stance on their own.
The right wing media DROVE the narrative. They've relentlessly thrown shade on the safety and effectiveness of the vaccines, despite in many cases being vaccinated themselves.
Now, figure out why they drove the narrative that they did.
no they didn't. the "right wing media" merely allowed for individuals to make their own decisions regarding whether or not to get the vax. those of you who threw around terms fascism and dictator the previous 4 years...can you say projection much?
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no they didn't. the "right wing media" merely allowed for individuals to make their own decisions regarding whether or not to get the vax. those of you who threw around terms fascism and dictator the previous 4 years...can you say projection much?
> allowed
Turn off the TV my dude
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no they didn't. the "right wing media" merely allowed for individuals to make their own decisions regarding whether or not to get the vax.
One thing Scoop has taught me is that MU’s dental school has really low standards.
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blow it out your a$$ fluffer we can all play that game-how about the one thing that your posts have shown me is certain colleges up around the fox river valley region hire a bunch of arrogant pr!cks
oh and btw-
https://theworldnews.net/uk-news/america-s-vaccine-holdouts-aren-t-republicans-they-re-people-under-65
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blow it out your a$$ fluffer we can all play that game-how about the one thing that your posts have shown me is certain colleges up around the fox river valley region hire a bunch of arrogant pr!cks
oh and btw-
https://theworldnews.net/uk-news/america-s-vaccine-holdouts-aren-t-republicans-they-re-people-under-65
From your link:
“A study showed that among all age groups, Democrats were more likely to be inoculated. It also reflected that inoculation rates dropped with each age bracket.”
The articles are too much for you I see. 😂😂😂
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blow it out your a$$ fluffer we can all play that game-how about the one thing that your posts have shown me is certain colleges up around the fox river valley region hire a bunch of arrogant pr!cks
oh and btw-
https://theworldnews.net/uk-news/america-s-vaccine-holdouts-aren-t-republicans-they-re-people-under-65
9 of 10
The lack of ellipses and air quotes leave you just short of a 10. The link provided not proving your point is incredible work.
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One thing Scoop has taught me is that MU’s dental school has really low standards.
I'll look for your application in the reject pile, hey?
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no they didn't. the "right wing media" merely allowed for individuals to make their own decisions regarding whether or not to get the vax. those of you who threw around terms fascism and dictator the previous 4 years...can you say projection much?
The right wing media "allowed"?? LOL. Because their viewers then went out and did their own research then, right?
It also "allowed" them to gobble down completely ineffective treatments after convincing them the vaccines were dangerous and ineffective.
BTW, in October, you told us there would be studies "in a couple of months" that prove the effectiveness of HCQ and Ivermectin so hard that "we would be on our knees". Would you mind linking to those studies now?
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blow it out your a$$ fluffer we can all play that game-how about the one thing that your posts have shown me is certain colleges up around the fox river valley region hire a bunch of arrogant pr!cks
oh and btw-
https://theworldnews.net/uk-news/america-s-vaccine-holdouts-aren-t-republicans-they-re-people-under-65
You can't fix stupid, so I don't know why I bother, but here goes:
KFF COVID-19 Vaccine Monitor: The Increasing Importance of Partisanship in Predicting COVID-19 Vaccination Status
https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/poll-finding/importance-of-partisanship-predicting-vaccination-status/
(https://images2.imgbox.com/4d/39/Ff2K3UTd_o.png) (https://imgbox.com/Ff2K3UTd)
(https://images2.imgbox.com/fd/9c/VbTYAF5M_o.png) (https://imgbox.com/VbTYAF5M)
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Can't make this shyte up, TS. It's been remarkable (and sad) to watch so many people who should know better simply dismiss (and/or try to rewrite) facts during this pandemic.
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I'll look for your application in the reject pile, hey?
Not everyone desires to become a statistic, aina?
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Great graphs in this article ..
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/12/28/us/covid-deaths.html
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Great graphs in this article ..
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/12/28/us/covid-deaths.html
Pretty much every myth used to diminish this disease continues to be shown to be wrong with time.
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Those are just made up 'facts' until confirmed by one's facebook group.
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Example No. 6,449 on why "personal choice" is not just "affecting me."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2021/12/28/iowa-dale-weeks-hospitals-covid-sepsis/?utm_campaign=wp_post_most&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_most&carta-url=https%3A%2F%2Fs2.washingtonpost.com%2Fcar-ln-tr%2F35a1106%2F61cc99e49d2fdab56be78873%2F5f8d147cae7e8a56e5b732a4%2F27%2F72%2F61cc99e49d2fdab56be78873
Throughout his life, Dale Weeks was characterized by family and friends in Iowa as “a good neighbor,” someone who would do anything for anyone. So when he was diagnosed with sepsis last month, the retired schools superintendent and his family hoped he would get immediate care and be okay to reunite with them for the holidays.
But at a time when unvaccinated covid-19 patients have again overwhelmed hospitals because of the fast-spreading omicron variant, finding an available bed at a large medical center able to give him the treatment he needed proved to be difficult. Weeks was being treated at a small, rural hospital. He had waited 15 days to be transferred to a larger hospital with better treatment options, because facilities throughout Iowa did not have an open bed for him as a result of the latest hospital surge of unvaccinated patients, his children told The Washington Post.
“It was terribly frustrating being told, ‘There’s not a bed yet,’ ” Jenifer Owenson, one of his four children, said Tuesday. “All of us were talking multiple times a day, ‘Why can’t we get him a bed?’ There was this logjam to get him in anywhere.”
When Weeks was finally able to have surgery more than two weeks later, his condition from sepsis had worsened. Weeks died Nov. 28 of complications after surgery. He was 78.
Anthony Weeks, his son, said that the family believes their vaccinated and boosted father was the latest indirect victim of the pandemic — and that he would have survived his sepsis diagnosis if he was immediately admitted to a larger medical center that had an open bed.
This isn't even classified as a Covid death, but it was ... though some might even call it involuntary manslaughter by the selfish and/or misinformed anti-vaxxers who took up all the beds and consigned this man to death.
Freedom! All lives matter!
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You can't fix stupid, so I don't know why I bother, but here goes:
KFF COVID-19 Vaccine Monitor: The Increasing Importance of Partisanship in Predicting COVID-19 Vaccination Status
https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covid-19/poll-finding/importance-of-partisanship-predicting-vaccination-status/
(https://images2.imgbox.com/4d/39/Ff2K3UTd_o.png) (https://imgbox.com/Ff2K3UTd)
(https://images2.imgbox.com/fd/9c/VbTYAF5M_o.png) (https://imgbox.com/VbTYAF5M)
Trying to figure out if I'm drunk or not, but how are 52% of Republicans in Trump counties vaccinated, and 66% unvaccinated?
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Trying to figure out if I'm drunk or not, but how are 52% of Republicans in Trump counties vaccinated, and 66% unvaccinated?
I think it’s different data sets. You have to add up the Biden/Trump county. So of the vaccinated Republicans, 47% reside in a Biden County and 52% in a Trump County.
For unvaccinated, it is 35/65.
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I think it’s different data sets. You have to add up the Biden/Trump county. So of the vaccinated Republicans, 47% reside in a Biden County and 52% in a Trump County.
For unvaccinated, it is 35/65.
I was similarly confused and came to the same conclusion on how to read this. It seems to make sense if you bucket the population by vaccinated/unvaccinated and then analyze those by the various age/education/etc. breakdowns.
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I think it’s different data sets. You have to add up the Biden/Trump county. So of the vaccinated Republicans, 47% reside in a Biden County and 52% in a Trump County.
For unvaccinated, it is 35/65.
Aye, that makes more sense. Day drunk
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It’s really not even a rational calculation. Since April 90% of deaths are unvaccinated. High correlation to deaths and vaccine in the state data.
https://twitter.com/erictopol/status/1476550910574690304?s=21 (https://twitter.com/erictopol/status/1476550910574690304?s=21)
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It’s really not even a rational calculation. Since April 90% of deaths are unvaccinated. High correlation to deaths and vaccine in the state data.
https://twitter.com/erictopol/status/1476550910574690304?s=21 (https://twitter.com/erictopol/status/1476550910574690304?s=21)
Rationality has nothing to do with it obviously. One side has relentlessly demonized Fauci and thrown shade on vaccines (and masks, and distancing, and any sort of personal responsibility) and the weak-minded have fallen for the disinformation even though it is clearly killing them.
Idiots, every last one of them.
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IMO Fauci should have been replaced by a younger person that brought a new face to the discussion. His message may have been 100% spot on, but his credibility wet out the window a long time ago for many people. As for me, I do trust science and have followed all of the rules laid out to the American public and will continue to do so. That being said, I think Fauci has overstayed his welcome. There are plenty of others out there, notably Gottlieb, that have far more credibility to me.
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To say nothin' of linin' his pockets throughout dis clusterfook, aina?
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To say nothin' of linin' his pockets throughout dis clusterfook, aina?
A timeless American tradition, aina?
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IMO Fauci should have been replaced by a younger person that brought a new face to the discussion. His message may have been 100% spot on, but his credibility wet out the window a long time ago for many people. As for me, I do trust science and have followed all of the rules laid out to the American public and will continue to do so. That being said, I think Fauci has overstayed his welcome. There are plenty of others out there, notably Gottlieb, that have far more credibility to me.
I follow 40 or so medical professionals on twitter. Gottlieb is one. I also monitor what the govt agencies are advocating. Try to make the best choices from there and I feel very well informed.
I honestly believe it doesn’t matter who has the ‘Fauci job’ at this point. Some people don’t want to listen and won’t seek good information if they don’t trust an individual.
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Doc,
Lining his pockets might be the only thing I like about the guy.
Frenn
I also follow far too many people, agencies and monitor the situation extremely closely in Asia on a daily basis and disagree on who has the 'Fauci job' making a difference. I think he has done more ass covering than anything else over the past 1.5 years and that bothers me. In addition, he is too old and new blood was/is needed. I would hope/pray that there is young talent that could have been utilized to educate the American people. I have said over the past two years that this Fauci's Masters Sunday and he was not going to let slip away from him and he is still choking on the back nine.
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Goose I guess we need to define what the fauci job is. As far as his position at the NIH he did a great job stewarding the trials of vaccines and treatments and we were in a great position with vaccines because of his agencies work (ie moderna).
As far as the role in communications regarding the pandemic? Yeah not great. I would give the CDC a lower grade. Worse under Redfield but not great under Wolensky either.
Fauci is just an easy face to blame for some. I don’t disparage anyone for doing it, but IMO you swap a new person in and the same issues remain. Ie CDC not setup to be a forward looking agency, too much inter agency coordination that isn’t working great, approval processes not setup to move fast and then the whole issue with deploying a plan to the states. The booster rollout is a perfect example of that.
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Frenn
Fair points. I guess I struggled with the fact he is on TV 250 times a day and question his role at the NIH. My wife works at Moderna on the vaccine and literally is working 12 hour days and weekends and she is not running the show at Moderna. She was supposed to have the last two weeks off and due to Omicron she has worked every day, including Xmas weekend. Now that example is apples and oranges, but I have witnessed firsthand the work going on with this vaccine for the past year and there is little time for idle chat.
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They're all too fookin' old. Purge da system of Biden, Trump, Fauci, Pelosi, Schumer, Sanders, Grassley, Graham.
Problem is there aren't many young up and comers. Although I like Sununu, DeSantis, Noem, Walker, and Paul. The democrats have nothing utter than Michelle O. and Oprah, hey?
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Doc
They all are too old, only difference, we admit our guys are too old.
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They're all too fookin' old. Purge da system of Biden, Trump, Fauci, Pelosi, Schumer, Sanders, Grassley, Graham.
Problem is there aren't many young up and comers. Although I like Sununu, DeSantis, Noem, Walker, and Paul. The democrats have nothing utter than Michelle O. and Oprah, hey?
If only I could put my finger on what about Sununu, DeSantis, Noem, Walker, and Paul is different from Michelle O, Oprah, or the squad.
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If only I could put my finger on what about Sununu, DeSantis, Noem, Walker, and Paul is different from Michelle O, Oprah, or the squad.
Sununu isn’t white tho…
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Doc
They all are too old, only difference, we admit our guys are too old.
"We" who?
I'm pretty sure it's been my long running shtick that old people shouldn't be running the government.
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Doc
They all are too old, only difference, we admit our guys are too old.
Good ole tribalism, our guys versus them.
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Last time I looked, Herschel Walker was African American, hey?
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Last time I looked, Herschel Walker was African American, hey?
The bobsledder diagnosed with multiple personality disorder? lol
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Hards
The schtick would have more credibility if we did not have a 124y old President in the office. How did he win if y'all think old people should not be running the government?
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I gave money to 3 candidates in the primary. None of them President Biden. In the 2020 campaign, all he had to do was not be Trump to win by 7 million votes.
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Last time I looked, Herschel Walker was African American, hey?
I gave you the benefit of the doubt and assumed you meant Scott. Mea culpa.
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Tower
I have a feeling that many Democrats thought Joe was the best chance to beat Trump and did not care how old he was. There was a slew of young people in the primary and that did not matter to the anyone but Trump crowd, they simply did not want Trump to win again. So, the left not wanting old people running the government is somewhat comical to me.
Just curious, do you think your three choices would have beaten Trump?
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Frenn
Fair points. I guess I struggled with the fact he is on TV 250 times a day and question his role at the NIH. My wife works at Moderna on the vaccine and literally is working 12 hour days and weekends and she is not running the show at Moderna. She was supposed to have the last two weeks off and due to Omicron she has worked every day, including Xmas weekend. Now that example is apples and oranges, but I have witnessed firsthand the work going on with this vaccine for the past year and there is little time for idle chat.
Grateful for the work you wife is putting in. I know some people at Moderna too.
Curious as to what you think of the booster efficacy and policies. Given the nature of the S1 mutations, I'm a bit surprised that a Omicron specific or combination booster isn't being pushed harder...or it is very likely that is the project your wife is working on.
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Grateful for the work you wife is putting in.
Okay tone it down
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forgetful
My wife has a PhD and master's from Medical College of Wisconsin and it took me 8 years to get an undergrad in Interpersonal Communications from MU, so I am not the right guy to be asking vaccine questions. I have found it interesting learning about the virus and vaccine from her and have learned more science in the last two years than my previous 55 years on the planet.
While I know this is not breaking news, most of her efforts currently are on the omicron booster/vaccine and sounds promising. Time will tell.
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Tower
I have a feeling that many Democrats thought Joe was the best chance to beat Trump and did not care how old he was. There was a slew of young people in the primary and that did not matter to the anyone but Trump crowd, they simply did not want Trump to win again. So, the left not wanting old people running the government is somewhat comical to me.
Just curious, do you think your three choices would have beaten Trump?
Democrats are not the "left"
And vice versa
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Gee, that’s too bad
‘It Sucks’: Lisa Boothe, Who Bragged About Not Getting Vaccinated as Middle Finger to Biden, Gets Covid
https://www.mediaite.com/tv/it-sucks-lisa-boothe-who-bragged-about-not-getting-vaccinated-as-middle-finger-to-biden-gets-covid/?utm_source=mostpopular
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I follow 40 or so medical professionals on twitter. Gottlieb is one. I also monitor what the govt agencies are advocating. Try to make the best choices from there and I feel very well informed.
I honestly believe it doesn’t matter who has the ‘Fauci job’ at this point. Some people don’t want to listen and won’t seek good information if they don’t trust an individual.
My only issue with Gottelieb is that he is on the BOD at Pfizer. So not exactly conflict of interest free.
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Hards
The schtick would have more credibility if we did not have a 124y old President in the office. How did he win if y'all think old people should not be running the government?
Well let’s not stop serving as a government leader, how about voting age, (should an 80 year old really need to vote anymore than a 16 year old?), have them stop driving after the age of 75 (because statistically they are much more dangerous).
This is fun.
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Hards
The schtick would have more credibility if we did not have a 124y old President in the office. How did he win if y'all think old people should not be running the government?
Democrats fall in love, Republicans fall in line. This time Democrats (and a lot of 'independents') loved to not have Trump be president. Personally, I am aware of precisely zero people who were excited to vote for Biden.
I voted for the guy that wasn't Trump... obviously. And Dumpy boy is 4 years younger. 79 vs 75. They're both geezers who shouldn't be in charge of anything as important as the presidency.
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Hards
I cannot speak for other Republicans, but I have never followed the company line. More times than not, I have not supported the Presidential nominee and have voted accordingly. I have made some awfully poor choices in voting, but never based off the company line. I have to admit that I have not had many winning Presidential elections in my lifetime, starting with my Ross Perot decision.
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I think Biden was the one guy that that could not effectively be demonized. A long center left career. Not a woman. Not gay. White. A safe pick that a lot of never-Trump republicans could be comfortable voting for. There is a reason Trump wanted Ukraine to help kneecap him.
I think Hards is in the correct neighborhood. I know a few people who were genuinely enthusiastic to vote for Biden. A few.
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Tower
That is my point. It is a schtick, unless the candidate serves a purpose. Biden was picked and supported regardless of his age and simply to have the best chance to beat Trump. My "guys" are too old and we need new blood in Republican party and I am not afraid to admit it.
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Hards
I cannot speak for other Republicans, but I have never followed the company line. More times than not, I have not supported the Presidential nominee and have voted accordingly. I have made some awfully poor choices in voting, but never based off the company line. I have to admit that I have not had many winning Presidential elections in my lifetime, starting with my Ross Perot decision.
Goose, I voted for Bill Clinton one time out of the four opportunities I had. I voted for Mrs. Clinton once out of 3 opportunities. I did not vote for President Biden in the primary. A good rule of thumb is money from me is the kiss of death. So, you and I could have a helluva good chat.
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Tower
That is my point. It is a schtick, unless the candidate serves a purpose. Biden was picked and supported regardless of his age and simply to have the best chance to beat Trump. My "guys" are too old and we need new blood in Republican party and I am not afraid to admit it.
Where are the young Buckley's? The young Sykes'? The young Will's?
I actually feel decent about the next generation of D's.
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Where are the young Buckley's? The young Sykes'? The young Will's?
I actually feel decent about the next generation of D's.
Sadly, there is no young Buckley
But conversely, where are the young Moynihans? The young JFKs? Even the young Clintons?
Great young Ds? Joe and Bernie are almost 160 between them and they dominated this cycle. And Joe’s talking 4 more years even though he’ll be 83 next Inauguration Day. And who is testing the waters? Hillary. She’ll be 77 or 78 next Inauguration Day. The only Democrat on stage for the debates who looked smart and interesting enough to go anywhere was Andrew Yang - and he just left the party. Kamala Harris? Corey Booker? Mayor Pete? Elizabeth Warren? Beto O’Rourke? The women in the Progressive Caucus? Etc., etc.? C’mon, man!
Neither side is brimming with talent IMHO.
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Sadly, there is no young Buckley
But conversely, where are the young Moynihans? The young JFKs? Even the young Clintons?
Great young Ds? Joe and Bernie are almost 160 between them and they dominated this cycle. And Joe’s talking 4 more years even though he’ll be 83 next Inauguration Day. And who is testing the waters? Hillary. She’ll be 77 or 78 next Inauguration Day. The only Democrat on stage for the debates who looked smart and interesting enough to go anywhere was Andrew Yang - and he just left the party. Kamala Harris? Corey Booker? Mayor Pete? Elizabeth Warren? Beto O’Rourke? The women in the Progressive Caucus? Etc., etc.? C’mon, man!
Neither side is brimming with talent IMHO.
Agreed. Whole heartedly
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Both sides are lacking young talent and that needs to change. My hope is that we have an election that both sides offer up a candidate that has appeal to everyone, not just the base.
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What kind of maniac wants to be a politician?
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What kind of maniac wants to be a politician?
Exactly. Anyone who could actually do the job well is too smart to run for office.
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Exactly. Anyone who could actually do the job well is too smart to run for office.
One of my favorite quotes ever.
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One of my favorite quotes ever.
OH, did someone say this before me?
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OH, did someone say this before me?
It was about the presidency. There have been a bunch of similar ones. Lee Iacocca was one. Douglas Adams had a similar one as well.
But none as eloquent as you!
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Whereas the truth is that the State in which the rulers are most reluctant to govern is always the best and most quietly governed, and the State in which they are most eager, the worst.
But we'll save his take on which form of government is the best for another day ;)
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Wanting to run for the Presidency should disqualify you from the office.
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Tower
That is my point. It is a schtick, unless the candidate serves a purpose. Biden was picked and supported regardless of his age and simply to have the best chance to beat Trump. My "guys" are too old and we need new blood in Republican party and I am not afraid to admit it.
Biden was picked by the DNC when Jim Clyburn went to bat for him in South Carolina. Biden was getting smoked in the primary just like Hilary Clinton was. But then miraculously the 'old guard' of the DNC gets the candidate they want... again. The primary system is entirely broken in this country. Every state should vote on a primary on the same day. A tiny Republican leaning state in the Midwest shouldn't have the sway that it does over our national elections.
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Sadly, there is no young Buckley
But conversely, where are the young Moynihans? The young JFKs? Even the young Clintons?
Great young Ds? Joe and Bernie are almost 160 between them and they dominated this cycle. And Joe’s talking 4 more years even though he’ll be 83 next Inauguration Day. And who is testing the waters? Hillary. She’ll be 77 or 78 next Inauguration Day. The only Democrat on stage for the debates who looked smart and interesting enough to go anywhere was Andrew Yang - and he just left the party. Kamala Harris? Corey Booker? Mayor Pete? Elizabeth Warren? Beto O’Rourke? The women in the Progressive Caucus? Etc., etc.? C’mon, man!
Neither side is brimming with talent IMHO.
Personal opinion here. Biden will step back. He won't do it until there is a seemingly high polling national consensus about who the pick for 2024 will be. The democrats don't want a long drawn out primary. And if no overwhelming consent can be manufactured until the convention nears I would not at all be surprised to see Biden say he is pulling out (unless he is polling well above 60%) and we get a pick from the DNC at the convention. And it will be entirely dependent on who the GOP candidate will be. If Trump is on the menu again, the DNC will go with Harris, Stacy Adams, or Buttigieg. If not, I absolutely believe they are stupid enough to trot ol' Hilary Clinton out there. And she'll lose again.
And for the record, the members of the 'squad' are phenomenal and I'd be proud to vote for any of them for President.
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Biden was picked by the DNC when Jim Clyburn went to bat for him in South Carolina. Biden was getting smoked in the primary just like Hilary Clinton was. But then miraculously the 'old guard' of the DNC gets the candidate they want... again. The primary system is entirely broken in this country. Every state should vote on a primary on the same day. A tiny Republican leaning state in the Midwest shouldn't have the sway that it does over our national elections.
And this is what I don’t get. Obama was not the candidate of the DNC, yet was a 100 times better candidate than Hillary was. Trump was the same on the Republican side. Establishment candidates like Jeb would have been crushed by Hillary.
I think the primary process works if the party trusts it. But instead the party preaches unity and rallies around establishment candidates often to its own peril.
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Hards
I cannot speak for other Republicans, but I have never followed the company line. More times than not, I have not supported the Presidential nominee and have voted accordingly. I have made some awfully poor choices in voting, but never based off the company line. I have to admit that I have not had many winning Presidential elections in my lifetime, starting with my Ross Perot decision.
You sound like a New England Republican which is essentially the Buckley's you speak of since he lived here.
My dad's friend used to cater some of his outdoor gatherings.
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And this is what I don’t get. Obama was not the candidate of the DNC, yet was a 100 times better candidate than Hillary was. Trump was the same on the Republican side. Establishment candidates like Jeb would have been crushed by Hillary.
I think the primary process works if the party trusts it. But instead the party preaches unity and rallies around establishment candidates often to its own peril.
That's because the party doesn't understand itself. It's why it resorts to constantly being the party of, "at least we aren't those guys" so you better vote for us! The party establishment exists to serve its donors, but on a *slightly* less horrible scale than the GOP. The future of the Democratic party hinges on polling and data analysis, but they're beholden to the donors that put them in power. Look no further than Kyrsten Sinema. Her 'evolution' of ideology is insulting to even the most casual observer.
Obama won because he actually tapped into people's beliefs and what they thought the country could become. And it certainly still can... but he absolutely wasted the opportunity to move the country forward. Always afraid to spend his political capital early on in his first term. Because politicians who are pragmatic do that. They try to toe the line and not be a one term president... and the ones that ram through their party's agenda end up as one term-ers. So you're left with a choice. Use your chance to change things and piss people off (Trump) or worry about your next election and accomplish very little (Obama).
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I think you are overestimating the ‘power’ of the DNC and the old guard. They didn’t want Obama, they didn’t particularly want Clinton, and certainly weren’t into Carter.
I do agree that the Iowa caucuses shouldn’t be as important as they are. But elections are run by the states. And remember that primaries themselves aren’t actually required ( hence the caucuses).
I happen to like Mayor Pete. I heard a number of interviews with him when his book was released. He talked in complete sentences, actually used words bigger than sound bites, , is very intelligent and curious, is open to discussion, and actually talked about ideas and ideals.
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I think you are overestimating the ‘power’ of the DNC and the old guard. They didn’t want Obama, they didn’t particularly want Clinton, and certainly weren’t into Carter.
I do agree that the Iowa caucuses shouldn’t be as important as they are. But elections are run by the states. And remember that primaries themselves aren’t actually required ( hence the caucuses).
I happen to like Mayor Pete. I heard a number of interviews with him when his book was released. He talked in complete sentences, actually used words bigger than sound bites, , is very intelligent and curious, is open to discussion, and actually talked about ideas and ideals.
Mayor Pete is as pragmatic, calculating, and smart as they come. I don't particularly dislike him, but I certainly don't like a lot of the things he says.
The old guard is great at picking centrists while simultaneously throwing anything left of center-right directly to the curb. See Sanders, Bernard.
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I think the primary process works if the party trusts it. But instead the party preaches unity and rallies around establishment candidates often to its own peril.
+100000000. Hotly contested primaries are always a benefit in the general, no matter how much pearl clutching goes on about the party doing itself damage. Under the most pessimistic reading, they keep the party at the top of the news headlines which is all that matters. Under the most optimistic reading, they show that the party can be a big tent with enough room for disagreement. Either way, clearing the floor for a candidate other than a popular incumbent is never ever ever ever ever a good idea.
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Personal opinion here. Biden will step back. He won't do it until there is a seemingly high polling national consensus about who the pick for 2024 will be. The democrats don't want a long drawn out primary. And if no overwhelming consent can be manufactured until the convention nears I would not at all be surprised to see Biden say he is pulling out (unless he is polling well above 60%) and we get a pick from the DNC at the convention. And it will be entirely dependent on who the GOP candidate will be. If Trump is on the menu again, the DNC will go with Harris, Stacy Adams, or Buttigieg. If not, I absolutely believe they are stupid enough to trot ol' Hilary Clinton out there. And she'll lose again.
And for the record, the members of the 'squad' are phenomenal and I'd be proud to vote for any of them for President.
You were fine until your last sentence. God help this country if ever one of those racist, Marxist, anti-semetic, bumbling idiots ever gained traction, hey?
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That's because the party doesn't understand itself. It's why it resorts to constantly being the party of, "at least we aren't those guys" so you better vote for us! The party establishment exists to serve its donors, but on a *slightly* less horrible scale than the GOP. The future of the Democratic party hinges on polling and data analysis, but they're beholden to the donors that put them in power. Look no further than Kyrsten Sinema. Her 'evolution' of ideology is insulting to even the most casual observer.
Obama won because he actually tapped into people's beliefs and what they thought the country could become. And it certainly still can... but he absolutely wasted the opportunity to move the country forward. Always afraid to spend his political capital early on in his first term. Because politicians who are pragmatic do that. They try to toe the line and not be a one term president... and the ones that ram through their party's agenda end up as one term-ers. So you're left with a choice. Use your chance to change things and piss people off (Trump) or worry about your next election and accomplish very little (Obama).
Obama was neutered because the Dems only controlled Congress during his first 2 years. Congress was split in the middle 4 years with Reps controlling the last 2 years, hey?
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Mayor Pete is as pragmatic, calculating, and smart as they come. I don't particularly dislike him, but I certainly don't like a lot of the things he says.
The old guard is great at picking centrists while simultaneously throwing anything left of center-right directly to the curb. See Sanders, Bernard.
Pete is a pure political robot. I hate the idea of handing the reigns to someone like him. Harvard, oxford, McKinsey? I believe he'd continue the DNC tradition of putting donor wants over populist needs
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It was about the presidency. There have been a bunch of similar ones. Lee Iacocca was one. Douglas Adams had a similar one as well.
But none as eloquent as you!
:-*
Remind me sometime to tell you the story of my high school friend who ran for Senator. She was not a politician by trade, but I have never know a smarter, more honorable, more natural leader in my life. She won primary and the other party destroyed her with gossip and outright lies.