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Author Topic: Marquette No. 83 In New US News Ranking  (Read 42545 times)

Not A Serious Person

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Re: Marquette No. 83 In New US News Ranking
« Reply #50 on: September 18, 2021, 09:04:00 PM »
US News And World Report Rankings
2014 MU 75
2015 MU 76
2016 MU 86
2018 MU 90
2020 MU 88
2021 MU 83
Nice seeing MU heading in the right direction

A couple of more years

2008      82
2009      77
2010      84
2011      75
2012      82
2013      83
2014      75
2015      76
2016      86
2017      86
2018      90
2019      89
2020      84
2021      88
2022      83
Western Progressives have one worldview, the correct one.

Not A Serious Person

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Re: Marquette No. 83 In New US News Ranking
« Reply #51 on: September 18, 2021, 09:13:27 PM »
10 schools tied at 83
4 schools tied at 79
4 schools tied at 75
7 schools tied at 68
4 schools tied at 63

This suggests that the absolute rankings are really close.  Functionally there might be not any difference between 63 and 83.  One tick higher and MU is 79, two ticks higher and MU is 75, and so on.

So we might want to think 63 vs 83 is a big difference, and since this is all about emotions, it will be seen that way.  But, in reality, the difference is probably barely more than a rounding error.
Western Progressives have one worldview, the correct one.

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: Marquette No. 83 In New US News Ranking
« Reply #52 on: September 18, 2021, 09:15:14 PM »
10 schools tied at 83
4 schools tied at 79
4 schools tied at 75
7 schools tied at 68
4 schools tied at 63

This suggests that the absolute rankings are really close.  Functionally there might be not any difference between 63 and 83.  One tick higher and MU is 79, two ticks higher and MU is 75, and so on.

So we might want to think 63 vs 83 is a big difference, and since this is all about emotions, it will be seen that way.  But, in reality, the difference is probably barely more than a rounding error.


Right. Because they are basically a useless PR exercise.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

Not A Serious Person

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Re: Marquette No. 83 In New US News Ranking
« Reply #53 on: September 18, 2021, 10:02:44 PM »
Right. Because they are basically a useless PR exercise.

Correct, but sometimes useless PR exercises matter a lot ... because they are oriented for emotional humans.

So it can be two things at once, a useless exercise, and an exercise that matters a lot.
Western Progressives have one worldview, the correct one.

GooooMarquette

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Re: Marquette No. 83 In New US News Ranking
« Reply #54 on: September 18, 2021, 11:05:28 PM »
"We're number 83! We're number 83!"
« Last Edit: September 18, 2021, 11:09:01 PM by GooooMarquette »

Newsdreams

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Re: Marquette No. 83 In New US News Ranking
« Reply #55 on: September 19, 2021, 09:37:28 AM »
"We're number 83! We're number 83!"
I'm '83
Goal is National Championship

muwarrior69

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Re: Marquette No. 83 In New US News Ranking
« Reply #56 on: September 19, 2021, 10:10:28 AM »
So if you took the same Calculus test and got the same problems correct and got the same grade it would matter more if you took the test at Princeton than you're local community college.  What you know does not matter but where you learned it does.

PorkysButthole

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Re: Marquette No. 83 In New US News Ranking
« Reply #57 on: September 19, 2021, 10:25:27 AM »
Correct, but sometimes useless PR exercises matter a lot ... because they are oriented for emotional humans.

So it can be two things at once, a useless exercise, and an exercise that matters a lot.

Porky concurs it's both.   The difference between 83 and 63, while very slight, probably makes a difference of at least 50 accepted students choosing to enroll elsewhere.  That's the issue.  MU has not met their enrollment goal for the past 3 years so they need to monitor this closely.   The Sept Alumni newsletter appeared in Porky's inbox just the other day and the rankings story was front and center.  They mentioned how they moved up from 88 to 83 and celebrated the Nursing school ranking as they should so it's good that MU finally seems to recognize that these matter even if they're utter nonsense which they pretty much are, but the market disagrees.  What you learn shouldn't be less important than where you learn it, but a hell of a lot of folks still think where you learn it matters at least as much if not more, so to the extent that this impacts enrollment, it's important.   It's not just about rising tuition.   There are plenty of students from families that can afford the sticker price and pay it, and to those folks especially, this superficial stuff matters a lot.  Why MU isn't interested in recruiting more of those kids to help offset the cost of educating first gen students Porky doesn't know but they should.

GooooMarquette

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Re: Marquette No. 83 In New US News Ranking
« Reply #58 on: September 19, 2021, 07:58:44 PM »
So if you took the same Calculus test and got the same problems correct and got the same grade it would matter more if you took the test at Princeton than you're local community college.  What you know does not matter but where you learned it does.


You are assuming that the students are prepared for and end up taking the same calculus test at a community college as they do at Princeton. Do you really believe that happens? Would you like to buy a bridge?

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: Marquette No. 83 In New US News Ranking
« Reply #59 on: September 19, 2021, 08:02:03 PM »

You are assuming that the students are prepared for and end up taking the same calculus test at a community college as they do at Princeton. Do you really believe that happens? Would you like to buy a bridge?

Isn’t Calculus 101 basically the same everywhere?
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

WhiteTrash

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Re: Marquette No. 83 In New US News Ranking
« Reply #60 on: September 19, 2021, 08:09:29 PM »
Isn’t Calculus 101 basically the same everywhere?
Definitely not. MU or Princeton are going to be way more rigorous than a CC.

TAMU, Knower of Ball

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Re: Marquette No. 83 In New US News Ranking
« Reply #61 on: September 19, 2021, 10:50:28 PM »
So if you took the same Calculus test and got the same problems correct and got the same grade it would matter more if you took the test at Princeton than you're local community college.  What you know does not matter but where you learned it does.

Local community colleges don't offer the higher level classes that Princeton does. Also, there's a lot more value in college than just what knowledge you can regurgitate onto a test.
TAMU

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GooooMarquette

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Re: Marquette No. 83 In New US News Ranking
« Reply #62 on: September 19, 2021, 11:10:10 PM »
Isn’t Calculus 101 basically the same everywhere?


If you think the answer is yes, go take it at Princeton and then at a community college and get back to us…

MU Fan in Connecticut

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Re: Marquette No. 83 In New US News Ranking
« Reply #63 on: September 20, 2021, 05:13:14 AM »
Definitely not. MU or Princeton are going to be way more rigorous than a CC.

My kid took Physics l and II at CC over the summer to get ahead and it was very rigorous and no different than one of her XU classes.  She thought the professor was engaging and really good too.

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: Marquette No. 83 In New US News Ranking
« Reply #64 on: September 20, 2021, 07:48:02 AM »

If you think the answer is yes, go take it at Princeton and then at a community college and get back to us…


I wouldn't do well either place. 
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

JWags85

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Re: Marquette No. 83 In New US News Ranking
« Reply #65 on: September 20, 2021, 08:15:33 AM »
Definitely not. MU or Princeton are going to be way more rigorous than a CC.

I took an intro level Micro Econ course at MATC after my freshman year to fill up some time since my summer job was inconsistent and thought getting credits out of the way would be useful.

I had taken a rudimentary Econ class in HS and thought I'd be fine.  I also had terrible study habits (had recently completed a ROCKY academic freshman year).  I ended up getting a 98%. 

Back at my alma mater, I ended up switching my major from sciences to the business school and ended up needing to actually take Micro Econ again due to a weird quirk about needing more than a Pass/Fail in MicroEcon to clear to MacroEcon.  So a year and a half after that 98%, I took Micro Econ again.  I anticipated it being a breeze and I already took it.  I got punched in the mouth and ended up needing to bust my a** the last month of class and squeaked out a B.

Long story short, not remotely the same course rigor.  I also knew kids who would take classes at the 2 year branch campus of my alma mater, 30 min away, cause it would transfer as GPA counting, not just pass/fail, and it was known as GPA candy cause it was much easier.

GooooMarquette

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Re: Marquette No. 83 In New US News Ranking
« Reply #66 on: September 20, 2021, 08:34:19 AM »
I took an intro level Micro Econ course at MATC after my freshman year to fill up some time since my summer job was inconsistent and thought getting credits out of the way would be useful.

I had taken a rudimentary Econ class in HS and thought I'd be fine.  I also had terrible study habits (had recently completed a ROCKY academic freshman year).  I ended up getting a 98%. 

Back at my alma mater, I ended up switching my major from sciences to the business school and ended up needing to actually take Micro Econ again due to a weird quirk about needing more than a Pass/Fail in MicroEcon to clear to MacroEcon.  So a year and a half after that 98%, I took Micro Econ again.  I anticipated it being a breeze and I already took it.  I got punched in the mouth and ended up needing to bust my a** the last month of class and squeaked out a B.

Long story short, not remotely the same course rigor.  I also knew kids who would take classes at the 2 year branch campus of my alma mater, 30 min away, cause it would transfer as GPA counting, not just pass/fail, and it was known as GPA candy cause it was much easier.

Same type of experience with my daughter. She was a journalism major and math was not her thing, but she had to take a semester of calculus. She took it one summer at a local community college and got the highest grade in the class by a wide margin.

Even though it was still “Calculus I,” the class was taught at a far slower and more basic level than it would have been at a major university - my daughter compared it to a non-honors high school level class - because a more difficult curriculum would have been too much for the caliber of students.

I am thankful we have community colleges. They serve a very useful function in educating people who don’t have the resources or academic background to make it at a higher level university. But to compare them to a major university like Princeton is simply ridiculous.

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: Marquette No. 83 In New US News Ranking
« Reply #67 on: September 20, 2021, 08:38:50 AM »
Same type of experience with my daughter. She was a journalism major and math was not her thing, but she had to take a semester of calculus. She took it one summer at a local community college and got the highest grade in the class by a wide margin.

Even though it was still “Calculus I,” the class was taught at a far slower and more basic level than it would have been at a major university - my daughter compared it to a non-honors high school level class - because a more difficult curriculum would have been too much for the caliber of students.

I am thankful we have community colleges. They serve a very useful function in educating people who don’t have the resources or academic background to make it at a higher level university. But to compare them to a major university like Princeton is simply ridiculous.


Good thing no one made such a comparison.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

GooooMarquette

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Re: Marquette No. 83 In New US News Ranking
« Reply #68 on: September 20, 2021, 08:52:20 AM »

Good thing no one made such a comparison.


So your question about whether calculus 101 is the same everywhere was legitimately a question?

OK then. The answer is no. How is that?

Skip Intro

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Re: Marquette No. 83 In New US News Ranking
« Reply #69 on: September 20, 2021, 08:56:41 AM »

I am thankful we have community colleges. They serve a very useful function in educating people who don’t have the resources or academic background to make it at a higher level university. But to compare them to a major university like Princeton is simply ridiculous.

You're probably correct when it comes to community colleges, but I don't know that there's much of a difference in what you learn (and the pace at which you learn) between a school like Princeton and a good four-year school like, say, MU.  I had a number of friends who went to Ivy League schools, and they all said that getting in was the real challenge - the actual class part was no different than any other decent school.  That being said, if you're at Princeton, you're generally among some of the brightest students in the country/world, and it's basically implied that you'll go on to some form of graduate level degree, so the level of competition to finish near the top of your class is ridiculously intense. 

The Sultan of Semantics

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Re: Marquette No. 83 In New US News Ranking
« Reply #70 on: September 20, 2021, 09:00:21 AM »

So your question about whether calculus 101 is the same everywhere was legitimately a question?

OK then. The answer is no. How is that?

Yes it was legiitimately a question.  White Trash answered it.  You replied with a sarcastic response, which I pretty much leaned into, and I thought that would be that.  But I guess not.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

GooooMarquette

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Re: Marquette No. 83 In New US News Ranking
« Reply #71 on: September 20, 2021, 09:10:38 AM »
Yes it was legiitimately a question.  White Trash answered it.  You replied with a sarcastic response, which I pretty much leaned into, and I thought that would be that.  But I guess not.

My apologies. There is at least one here here who actually did compare classes at Princeton to those at community colleges, and I mixed you up with him. Mea Culpa

GOO

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Re: Marquette No. 83 In New US News Ranking
« Reply #72 on: September 20, 2021, 10:45:41 AM »
Bill Gates says going into Harvard a big part of his identity was being the math wiz.  First day in his first college math class he realized he was surrounded by math kids and he was just another kid in the class.

Now, imagine if instead Bill Gates goes to the local community college.

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Re: Marquette No. 83 In New US News Ranking
« Reply #73 on: September 20, 2021, 12:28:44 PM »
I took an intro level Micro Econ course at MATC after my freshman year to fill up some time since my summer job was inconsistent and thought getting credits out of the way would be useful.

I had taken a rudimentary Econ class in HS and thought I'd be fine.  I also had terrible study habits (had recently completed a ROCKY academic freshman year).  I ended up getting a 98%. 



Why you bashing the moderator?

dgies9156

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Re: Marquette No. 83 In New US News Ranking
« Reply #74 on: September 20, 2021, 01:04:07 PM »
Really, 83?

Didn't they hear, Wojo is gone!

Seriously, I believe these USN&WR rankings are as about as valuable as the electricity used to support the digital signal that enables me to read it (I used to say paper it's printed on but...). U.S. News is a failing newsmagazine that, even in its day, was third behind Time and Newsweek.

The college rankings are a gimmick. Period. They're about the only way USN&WR has to generate income, so they invest in them. The publication would be out of business were it not for this gimmick. The authors talk about "all the quantitative analysis" they do but it's essentially assigning an arbitrary number to certain qualitative factors that they believe drives goodness.

I truly feel sorry for anyone who takes this garbage seriously, including our beloved Marquette University. It's a vanity play and while I don't doubt a few dozen people will choose colleges based on what a failing newsmagazine says, I would hope a far more thorough examination of the university's advantages and the student's ability is the basis for making a college choice.

Because I'm recent to the college process, I learned. My daughter was accepted by a very fine institution that ranked far ahead of the college where she ended up. But the school she chose was right for her and that's where she went.