Feels about right overall.Santa Clara 55th...with a price tag as if it was top 20.
But are we behind Gonzaga, Santa Clara and Loyola Marymount?
https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities
Feels about right overall.
But are we behind Gonzaga, Santa Clara and Loyola Marymount?
https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities
Strong placing. Would love for us to be top-75, but the difference between 70 and 100 is very small honestly. It's why we keep seesawing back and forth around our ranking.
The Big East list for national universities (Butler, PC, and Xavier are ranked regionally).
23. Georgetown
49. Villanova
63. Connecticut
83. Marquette
103. Creighton
127. DePaul
127. Seton Hall
172. St. John's
There's little change in the overall list over the years, although Villanova has certainly stepped up while St. John's continues to slowly drop down the rankings.
Feels about right overall.
But are we behind Gonzaga, Santa Clara and Loyola Marymount?
https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities
I've come to the conclusion that these rankings are more of a popularity contest than anything else, but all in all I think MU had a decent showing this year and it seems about right. The reason we've fallen behind a little from when we were ranked 75 eight or nine years ago, is because about 3 years ago, I believe just under 50 institutions that were previously in the "Regional University" category jumped to the "National University" category because they advanced in the Carnegie Classification from an R3 institution to an R2 institution which is a higher classification of research activity. MU made that same jump in 2012 or so I think. Gonzaga, Santa Clara, LMU and Villanova were all among those 50 or so institutions that moved up from Regional to National Universities in 2018 I think it was.
I don't know much about SCU, GU or LMU's student stats, but living on the East Coast where Villanova is very popular, their student stats are quite a bit higher than MU's and a lot of other schools in the top 100 as well, so I think just by virtue of that, they'd pretty much be guaranteed to be a top 50 school even when they advanced despite the fact they're now in the same category as many of the Big 10 Research schools. I believe they were the #1 or 2 Regional when they were in that group. Given how many really good schools made that jump, MU has still held better than I would have expected. Sure they moved down a few notches, but so did a lot of schools. Fordham took a similar hit for essentially the same reason, although they're still ranked ahead of us. It's unfortunate that so many people still take these as seriously as they do but given the cost these days, I guess they have to. I still think its a popularity contest and schools on the east coast have an unfair advantage for stupid reasons.
Does anyone else find it odd that in this year's rankings, the undergraduate business school was only ranked 106 despite having 3 programs in the top 25 (Supply Chain, Accounting, and Finance). Call me crazy but it seems to me any undergraduate business school with 3 Top 25 ranked majors, two of which are Accounting and Finance would be ranked much higher than 106 overall. While I'm sure they're fine programs, something seems to be off here. Just saying.
Overall though, I'm not disappointed even though these don't really mean Jack.
The vast majority of Marquette students come from the Chicago-Milwaukee urban area. Within one state of Chicago are these schools.
6 University of Chicago
9 Northwestern
14 Wash U St Louis
19 Notre Dame
23 Michigan
42 Madison
47 Illinois
49 Purdue
68 Indiana
83 Marquette
83 Michigan State (tie)
83 Iowa
103 Loyola Chicago
103 St Louis
103 UIC
112 IIT
122 Iowa St
127 DePaul
136 Drake
148 Michigan Tech
172 Valparaiso
187 Detroit
196 IUPUI
Marquette will never keep up with the elite institutions like Chicago and Northwestern, or with the resources of the Big Ten research institutions (though we are tied/ahead of a few of them), but to be #2 among private, religious colleges on this list...that's exactly where Marquette wants to be. 20 spots ahead of SLU and LUC? 40+ ahead of DePaul, Drake, and Valpo? That'll make the board and donors happy.
Disco... I agree that the on the surface the program rankings simply do not add up to the overall ranking for the University. In addition, the inclusion of once classified Regional Universities (including Villanova, Zags, LMU , six years ago) has skewed the results. So, what if I told you that the Popularity Rankings only account for 20% of the overall rankings. It is a fact. 40% of the Ranking is based on empirical and important outcomes including retention and graduation rates. For example MU SIX YR (not 4 year) graduation rates over the nearly last decade for MU has been 82% while Nova 90%. Gonzaga 86%, Santa Clara 89% and BC 93%. BTW our 4 yr Graduation rate hovers at 65%. So, a few years ago when the average freshman class was 2,000 student with a graduation rate in SIX years means only 1,600 students made it to the finish line.... My point is that the 80% empirical measures is the story of the rankings while the 20% Opinion Poll (supply chain ranking, accounting, real estate) do not move the ranking in a material way. Our highest rated College in the US News is Nursing at 43 which has been our MOST selective college in the last five years with the highest ACT scores and GPA at admission. Nursing is based on Popularity Rankings part of the rankings which aligns with Nursing demand at MU.I applaud MU for committing to double the enrollment of our highest ranked college with the greatest demand. The punchline is improve OUTCOMES not Opinions will change our rankings.
It would be interesting to see the details behind the graduation rates. Just from personal experience, Marquette's environment isn't for everyone, and a decent number of students realize that and transfer out after Freshman year. Also, at least from my experience, MU has more of a focus than other schools on co-op and extended internship that push graduation beyond 4 years. Plus, high tuition means 6 years isn't realistic. I'd guess the 5yr grad rate is almost the same as the 6 yr grad rate. I'd also guess the 5 yr grad rate of students that came back for their Soph. year is pretty high.
Just to clarify, the six year graduation rate is a snapshot of those who started as freshmen and graduated from Marquette within six years. It does not include students who transfer out and graduate elsewhere, or those who transfer in and graduate from MU. Including those who may transfer from a tech or community college.
It would be interesting to see the details behind the graduation rates. Just from personal experience, Marquette's environment isn't for everyone, and a decent number of students realize that and transfer out after Freshman year. Also, at least from my experience, MU has more of a focus than other schools on co-op and extended internship that push graduation beyond 4 years. Plus, high tuition means 6 years isn't realistic. I'd guess the 5yr grad rate is almost the same as the 6 yr grad rate. I'd also guess the 5 yr grad rate of students that came back for their Soph. year is pretty high.
Finally, how good of a metric is grad rate? Is it partially related to how easy the school is?
It amazes me that Princeton ranks so high. It neither has a law School or Medical School. It does have an outstanding Physics department and one of only a few Universities to have a tokamak fusion reactor. They are also a leader in Biomedical Engineering. That said many part time ad hoc professors that teach at Princeton also teach at our surrounding community colleges. Most of these professors have full time jobs at the many pharmaceutical companies within a 30 mile radius of Princeton. I guess I would be safe in saying that many of our two year community college students are getting the same education as a Princeton undergrad with the same instructor.Well, it is just an undergrad ranking, so the lack of a law school and medical school don't matter.
It would be interesting to see the details behind the graduation rates. Just from personal experience, Marquette's environment isn't for everyone, and a decent number of students realize that and transfer out after Freshman year. Also, at least from my experience, MU has more of a focus than other schools on co-op and extended internship that push graduation beyond 4 years. Plus, high tuition means 6 years isn't realistic. I'd guess the 5yr grad rate is almost the same as the 6 yr grad rate. I'd also guess the 5 yr grad rate of students that came back for their Soph. year is pretty high.
Finally, how good of a metric is grad rate? Is it partially related to how easy the school is?
If comparing schools for the purpose of undergrad degree, these USNWR rankings might be more appropriate:
Marquette University
-
#58 in Best Undergraduate Teaching (tie)
#54 in Best Value Schools
Marquette's grad rate is behind its peers. And yeah some of that is because of the reasons you mention regarding the four year rate are legit, but a six year rate of 82% isn't bad. But Nova's and Gonzaga's are really, really good.
About three quarters of the students who leave will leave after the first year BTW.
The vast majority of Marquette students come from the Chicago-Milwaukee urban area. Within one state of Chicago are these schools.
6 University of Chicago
9 Northwestern
14 Wash U St Louis
19 Notre Dame
23 Michigan
42 Madison
47 Illinois
49 Purdue
68 Indiana
83 Marquette
83 Michigan State (tie)
83 Iowa
103 Loyola Chicago
103 St Louis
103 UIC
112 IIT
122 Iowa St
127 DePaul
136 Drake
148 Michigan Tech
172 Valparaiso
187 Detroit
196 IUPUI
Marquette will never keep up with the elite institutions like Chicago and Northwestern, or with the resources of the Big Ten research institutions (though we are tied/ahead of a few of them), but to be #2 among private, religious colleges on this list...that's exactly where Marquette wants to be. 20 spots ahead of SLU and LUC? 40+ ahead of DePaul, Drake, and Valpo? That'll make the board and donors happy.
You left off #136 St. Thomas
You left off #136 St. Thomas
And the U of MN at 68.
He said within a state of Chicago, not Milwaukee
Well, it is just an undergrad ranking, so the lack of a law school and medical school don't matter.
He said within a state of Chicago, not Milwaukee
Feels about right overall.
But are we behind Gonzaga, Santa Clara and Loyola Marymount?
https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities
Michigan schools aren't within a state of Chicago....
US News And World Report RankingsNew head coach probably helped
2014 MU 75
2015 MU 76
2016 MU 86
2018 MU 90
2020 MU 88
2021 MU 83
Nice seeing MU heading in the right direction
New head coach probably helped
Inflection points when Wojo hired/fired. Good call, Newsie.How it works, hey
It amazes me that Princeton ranks so high. It neither has a law School or Medical School.
If comparing schools for the purpose of undergrad degree, these USNWR rankings might be more appropriate:
Marquette University
-
#58 in Best Undergraduate Teaching (tie)
#54 in Best Value Schools
Michigan schools aren't within a state of Chicago....
Michigan and Illinois meet in the Middle of Lake Michigan.
On a boat? Over a few beers? Make jokes about what a pain 45 miles of Indiana is?Oh, Indeed. (Omar voice. RIP).
GU and Nova are helped in the rankings because they are drawing nationally and can be more selective and that contributes to students remaining on campus. GU has an acceptance rate of 61%, Nova 30%, MU's near 80%. LMU's is 43%
That's not accurate. Georgetown has an acceptance rate of 11.7%.
https://thehoya.com/gu-admits-just-12-of-applicants-setting-record-low/
GU is Gonzaga in this case.
US News And World Report Rankings
2014 MU 75
2015 MU 76
2016 MU 86
2018 MU 90
2020 MU 88
2021 MU 83
Nice seeing MU heading in the right direction
10 schools tied at 83
4 schools tied at 79
4 schools tied at 75
7 schools tied at 68
4 schools tied at 63
This suggests that the absolute rankings are really close. Functionally there might be not any difference between 63 and 83. One tick higher and MU is 79, two ticks higher and MU is 75, and so on.
So we might want to think 63 vs 83 is a big difference, and since this is all about emotions, it will be seen that way. But, in reality, the difference is probably barely more than a rounding error.
Right. Because they are basically a useless PR exercise.
"We're number 83! We're number 83!"I'm '83
Correct, but sometimes useless PR exercises matter a lot ... because they are oriented for emotional humans.
So it can be two things at once, a useless exercise, and an exercise that matters a lot.
So if you took the same Calculus test and got the same problems correct and got the same grade it would matter more if you took the test at Princeton than you're local community college. What you know does not matter but where you learned it does.
You are assuming that the students are prepared for and end up taking the same calculus test at a community college as they do at Princeton. Do you really believe that happens? Would you like to buy a bridge?
Isn’t Calculus 101 basically the same everywhere?Definitely not. MU or Princeton are going to be way more rigorous than a CC.
So if you took the same Calculus test and got the same problems correct and got the same grade it would matter more if you took the test at Princeton than you're local community college. What you know does not matter but where you learned it does.
Isn’t Calculus 101 basically the same everywhere?
Definitely not. MU or Princeton are going to be way more rigorous than a CC.
If you think the answer is yes, go take it at Princeton and then at a community college and get back to us…
Definitely not. MU or Princeton are going to be way more rigorous than a CC.
I took an intro level Micro Econ course at MATC after my freshman year to fill up some time since my summer job was inconsistent and thought getting credits out of the way would be useful.
I had taken a rudimentary Econ class in HS and thought I'd be fine. I also had terrible study habits (had recently completed a ROCKY academic freshman year). I ended up getting a 98%.
Back at my alma mater, I ended up switching my major from sciences to the business school and ended up needing to actually take Micro Econ again due to a weird quirk about needing more than a Pass/Fail in MicroEcon to clear to MacroEcon. So a year and a half after that 98%, I took Micro Econ again. I anticipated it being a breeze and I already took it. I got punched in the mouth and ended up needing to bust my a** the last month of class and squeaked out a B.
Long story short, not remotely the same course rigor. I also knew kids who would take classes at the 2 year branch campus of my alma mater, 30 min away, cause it would transfer as GPA counting, not just pass/fail, and it was known as GPA candy cause it was much easier.
Same type of experience with my daughter. She was a journalism major and math was not her thing, but she had to take a semester of calculus. She took it one summer at a local community college and got the highest grade in the class by a wide margin.
Even though it was still “Calculus I,” the class was taught at a far slower and more basic level than it would have been at a major university - my daughter compared it to a non-honors high school level class - because a more difficult curriculum would have been too much for the caliber of students.
I am thankful we have community colleges. They serve a very useful function in educating people who don’t have the resources or academic background to make it at a higher level university. But to compare them to a major university like Princeton is simply ridiculous.
Good thing no one made such a comparison.
I am thankful we have community colleges. They serve a very useful function in educating people who don’t have the resources or academic background to make it at a higher level university. But to compare them to a major university like Princeton is simply ridiculous.
So your question about whether calculus 101 is the same everywhere was legitimately a question?
OK then. The answer is no. How is that?
Yes it was legiitimately a question. White Trash answered it. You replied with a sarcastic response, which I pretty much leaned into, and I thought that would be that. But I guess not.
I took an intro level Micro Econ course at MATC after my freshman year to fill up some time since my summer job was inconsistent and thought getting credits out of the way would be useful.
I had taken a rudimentary Econ class in HS and thought I'd be fine. I also had terrible study habits (had recently completed a ROCKY academic freshman year). I ended up getting a 98%.
Isn’t Calculus 101 basically the same everywhere?
Really, 83?
Didn't they hear, Wojo is gone!
Seriously, I believe these USN&WR rankings are as about as valuable as the electricity used to support the digital signal that enables me to read it (I used to say paper it's printed on but...). U.S. News is a failing newsmagazine that, even in its day, was third behind Time and Newsweek.
The college rankings are a gimmick. Period. They're about the only way USN&WR has to generate income, so they invest in them. The publication would be out of business were it not for this gimmick. The authors talk about "all the quantitative analysis" they do but it's essentially assigning an arbitrary number to certain qualitative factors that they believe drives goodness.
I truly feel sorry for anyone who takes this garbage seriously, including our beloved Marquette University. It's a vanity play and while I don't doubt a few dozen people will choose colleges based on what a failing newsmagazine says, I would hope a far more thorough examination of the university's advantages and the student's ability is the basis for making a college choice.
Because I'm recent to the college process, I learned. My daughter was accepted by a very fine institution that ranked far ahead of the college where she ended up. But the school she chose was right for her and that's where she went.
#83nation
Let's also remember that a lot of college courses are graded on a curve so someone who would score a 60% on an Ivy League level test at a CC might get an A, as opposed to failing.
I'm confused here. Are you saying CC's have Ivy league level calculus courses that are graded on a curve?
Personally... as a grad ... I wish mu
was higher ...
And, for those that say it doesn’t
“ matter “ ... maybe not. But MU is certainly touting it on FB and Linked
In, so they must think it matters to some degree
Yep. Here's how I look at it:
They matter because people (especially prospective students and their parents) think they matter. That doesn't mean they are right or serve as a good gauge of the education a kid would get at a given school, because they are a rough gauge for that, at best. But they still matter.
How are you Gooo? I disagree with you with a caveat. I think they matter when it comes to the top 20 or so schools. You know it's talked about constantly in "the elite" circles from the faculty, to the students, and their parents. If their kid goes to say Johns Hopkins rated 12 in lieu of Princeton rated 2, or whatever, it seriously bothers these people. When you get to like I dunno...30 to 100? 40 to 100? I honestly don't think it means all that much. It's also literally impossible to compare a large state school with a smallish University.
It shouldn't but it does even 40-100. If higher education still cost what it did in the 80's and early 90's it probably wouldn't, but it doesn't so folks use this to justify the expense/value/payoff. Goo said it best.....It matters because people think it does. Whether or not they're right unfortunately isn't relevant from an institution's perspective. As Porky has said many times, we may all think it's nonsense but the market disagrees.
Let's also remember that a lot of college courses are graded on a curve so someone who would score a 60% on an Ivy League level test at a CC might get an A, as opposed to failing.I'm saying that in math/calculus the answer is the answer. It doesn't matter where you take the class but your ability to pass a class matters where you take the class.
I'm confused here. Are you saying CC's have Ivy league level calculus courses that are graded on a curve?
I'm saying that in math/calculus the answer is the answer. It doesn't matter where you take the class but your ability to pass a class matters where you take the class.
Hmmm. I understand that in math/calculus "the answer is the answer". However, the specific problems to solve within a math or calculus class may be vastly different. Now, if they are literally teaching from the same text book at a CC and an Ivy school for a Calc 101 course I totally get your point. My contention is they are not.I agree.
I see what you did here.
Was hoping someone would!
WSJ rankings out today. In general, the Big East doesn't fare well in their methodology--MU ranks 164 per their list.Their metrics might go more for financial even more than the US ranking. Not having football does hurt (not teal)
9 Northwestern
14 University of Chicago
17 Wash U St Louis
28 Notre Dame
24 Michigan
32 Georgetown
45 Illinois
48 Purdue
58 Madison
81 Michigan State (tie)
91 UIC
97 Indiana
103 Uconn
107 IIT
113 St Louis
128 Villanova
136 Drake
143 Creighton
164 Marquette
169 Iowa
177 Loyola Chicago
202 Detroit
210 Michigan Tech
212 Butler
219 Iowa St
219 Providence
223 Valparaiso
231 DePaul
231 Dayton
273 St. Johns
279 Seton Hall
317 IUPUI
356 Xavier
MU would be a lot higher if they did not sell of the Medical School.
MU would be a lot higher if they did not sell of the Medical School.One of the three big blunders in MU History.
One of the three big blunders in MU History.
What are the other two?
What are the other two?
What are the other two?1. Got rid of Medical School
1. Got rid of Medical School
2. Got rid of Football
3. Not closing off Wisconsin Avenue
that wasn't MU's fault. It was the city council that shot it down, with our Alderman casting the deciding vote against it. I remember one quote from an Alderwoman who said she was not going to disrupt her commute so Ken and Barbie at MU could play in their park.
What MU did with Wisconsin Ave is the best they could do and looks good.
A bridge or two would've been slightly better for students but agree it looks good.
1. Got rid of Medical School
2. Got rid of Football
3. Not closing off Wisconsin Avenue
What are the other two?
Shoulda moved from da city.
20 ft. barbed wire fence 'round campus, hey?
The medical school is a different question. I don't understand the finances behind it, but it certainly has been successful on its own. Would it have been as successful as part of Marquette? I don't know.
In retrospect, the university and the medical school eventually parting seems ordained from the start. In the early 20th century, the American Medical Association was pressing medical schools, many of which were proprietary (owned by doctors, their doctor brothers, their doctor sons), to strengthen their science curriculum, which was most easily accomplished by affiliating with a college or university. Affiliating is the operative word here. Marquette partnering with the Milwaukee Medical College, then in the Trinity Hospital at Ninth and Wells (where the 1950s addition to Central Library stands) was part of growing from college to university.
You can read Father Raphael Hamilton's university history, MCW's "Anchor for the future," and the MCW web site for more on the early decades, including the students' walkout 100 years ago, when the AMA gave the Marquette medical program a poor grade. The medical students withdrew en masse and trooped up Fourth Street to the still-standing Wisconsin College of Physicians and Surgeons (the painted Marquette sign on its cornice was still visible thirty years ago). WCPS had a better AMA grade, but poor finances. The mutual solution for the underfunded school and the university that had just lost its medicos? Marquette purchased WCPS and regained all the students, who with their successors studied at Fourth and Reservoir until the Cramer building was built on Fifteenth Street in the 1930s (you likely know it as the Schroeder Complex). The school ran Trinity Hospital for a few more years.
Thereafter, Marquette had no hospital in a neighborhood once full of hospitals: Saint Anthony's, Mount Sinai, Children's, Deaconess, Samaritan, and the County Emergency Hospital (the now-shuttered Columbia near UWM once had a maternity clinic at Tenth and Michigan). Absent a hospital, the school's income was limited to tuition, some grants, and gifts. Because of the affiliation, rather than a true merger, the medical school had its own board and endowment. It frequently ran a debt, about which you will hear debate (I've seen evidence enough to be convinced that the university carried the medical program for years).
When the combination of possible federal funding, with an explicit disassociation from the religiously-sponsored school, met the great support by what used to be called "the city fathers" for what up-to-date municipalities had - a regional medical complex - the Marquette University School of Medicine was spun off, becoming the Marquette Medical School in 1967. Still operating on campus for a decade, it took its present name in 1969. Once the Medical College of Wisconsin moved to the County Medical Complex, the old school was remodeled with the substantial help of the Schroeder Foundation to house our other health programs. Harriet Cramer's name was chiseled off the doorway and the medical shield ground down; you can easily read the remnants over the Fifteenth Street door.
That's a capsule of what happened. Had there been fewer nearby hospitals, the state might have issued Marquette a hospital license. With an income stream, I expect the the school would have prospered and grown. MCW now has its own strong identity and strengths beyond what the university can now offer it (check out their research support versus ours). A reunion of the two is hardly imaginable.
A Scooper posted a while back the reason Marquette divested from the medical school. TLDR Marquette did not have its own hospital which lead to the medical college running debts the university had to cover, much like it did with the football team before that program was ended.
Do you think Marquette would have been in better shape had they moved out to the 'Quon like Condordia did? Because I think the urban character of Marquette is part of what draws students.
Concordia was a smaller school in a worse neighborhood than Marquette so I can see why it benefited them.
Either way, the School Sisters of Notre Dame made a mistake selling that piece of property to Concordia. Moving Mount Mary up there would have been a long-term win for them. Although I am not sure the Sisters are as entrepreneurial as the Lutherans ended up being.
Do you think Marquette would have been in better shape had they moved out to the 'Quon like Condordia did? Because I think the urban character of Marquette is part of what draws students.
Concordia was a smaller school in a worse neighborhood than Marquette so I can see why it benefited them.
Either way, the School Sisters of Notre Dame made a mistake selling that piece of property to Concordia. Moving Mount Mary up there would have been a long-term win for them. Although I am not sure the Sisters are as entrepreneurial as the Lutherans ended up being.
Marquette students living downtown in a metropolitan setting or living up in the burbs with old white folks scared of folks who look different than them and call the cops when the decibel level rises? They should put up barbed wire to keep out the folks from Mequon
Do you think Marquette would have been in better shape had they moved out to the 'Quon like Concordia did? Because I think the urban character of Marquette is part of what draws students.
Thinking Mequon is predominantly "old white folks" is pretty silly, but given that its probably purposefully used to troll 1-2 posters, I imagine thats where the hyperbole lies.
It's >90% white with an average age of 47. Its at least fair to say it's predominantly upper middle age white folks.
Like 15% of the population is over 60-65.
Marquette's three biggest blunders:
1) Hiring Hank Raymonds -- Great guy and great assistant coach. Started the downward spiral from the Al era. Should have been demoted after the 1978 Miami of Ohio game. Never should have been hired. Period.
2) Pricing Themselves -- Marquette's tuition, even at a discount, has become a turn-off.
3) Hiring Bob Dukiet -- This one speaks for itself!
I remember the university trying to avoid having to sell but the med school was hemorrhaging red ink. The current day nostalgia/revisionist history on Scoop conveniently ignores that and there seems to be an assumption that the decision was taken lightly. I was there and can assure you that it was not. One of my brothers was in the last class and Linus Pauling, a well known scientist and winner of 2 Nobel prizes, was the commencement speaker at the last graduation. The school was briefly called Marquette School of Medicine Inc. after the sale but at least one politician objected so the Marquette name was removed
We get it, you don't consider Mequon "old", but your numbers are off. More like 23.5% >65.
https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/mequoncitywisconsin/PST045219
How are you Gooo? I disagree with you with a caveat. I think they matter when it comes to the top 20 or so schools. You know it's talked about constantly in "the elite" circles from the faculty, to the students, and their parents. If their kid goes to say Johns Hopkins rated 12 in lieu of Princeton rated 2, or whatever, it seriously bothers these people. When you get to like I dunno...30 to 100? 40 to 100? I honestly don't think it means all that much. It's also literally impossible to compare a large state school with a smallish University.
Didn't realize the dozen retirement castles they've seemingly put up on the east side made that big of an impact.
I don't remember the Marquette School of Medicine, Inc, but I know for a period it was called "Marquette University/Medical College of Wisconsin." My dad was an alum and was absolutely furious with the change, and I recall him talking (yelling) on the phone to some poor fundraiser.
Every private school, and many publics, have done #2. And they have because the concept by and large works. The execution may not, but it would have been silly to keep the price artificially low. Most schools that have done so, and there are many who have, are those who are struggling or have closed already.
Compared to most private schools in the Northeast (and I assume on the West Coast as well) Marquette is inexpensive and a bargain. That's why they need to step up their east and west coast recruiting. Porky agrees MU has at this point largely priced itself out of the constituency it's historically served but for some reason they're doubling down on local first gens. Not all of those admitted first gen students qualify for substantial aid. For those that do more power to them but a lot don't even if they're still academically qualified, so maybe if MU had a higher percentage of full pay students, they could help those lower income students that are academically qualified to be admitted, but not quite as academically strong to qualify for enough aid to attend without incurring substantial debt. Recruiting students from wealthier families seems to Porky a no brainer, but Porky is hardly an expert in higher education finance so what is it that MU knows that Porky doesn't?I believe COVID-19 has become an issue where people have decided to stay closer to hone due to all the random problems, but Just an opinion.
I remember my brother talking about how the elimination of the Marquette name absolutely killed fund raising. It was an incredibly stupid decision.
I remember my brother talking about how the elimination of the Marquette name absolutely killed fund raising. It was an incredibly stupid decision.
I am assuming that the odds of Marquette starting a medical School at this point or just slightly less than Marquette starting a football team again, which is at zero chance.
If one were going to do it, it is possible if a hospital like Aurora that is not affiliated with a med school was on board and financially involved. There sure would be no shortage of applicants.
The chances of Marquette starting a football team are near zero. But it is hundreds of times greater than the chances of it re-starting a medical school.
First, Marquette already has a nice selection of competitive health programs that are a good source of revenue and growth. Taking away resources to start a medical school when there is a really good one right across town would be wasteful. Investing and growing the programs they have would be smart.
Second, while there is a doctor shortage in Wisconsin, my understanding is that it doesn't really exist in southern Wisconsin. Opening up another medical school in Milwaukee doesn't help that. MCW has opened branch campuses in Wausau and Green Bay in an attempt to address this. My guess is that UW would be open to doing the same if they felt the demand was there.
The chances of Marquette starting a football team are near zero. But it is hundreds of times greater than the chances of it re-starting a medical school.
Not quite sure why MU seems indifferent to football given its history. It builds diversity, gives students competitive opportunities in the fall, the cost to entry in the Pioneer League (Butler, Drake, Valpo, St. Thomas) is reasonable, and you don't need scholarships. Valley Fields could host the games.
You need players
You wouldn’t have any sport without players. Glad you weren’t at the Lacrosse meetings.
Anyone know how costly football is in the pioneer league on a yearly basis?
Lacrosse is one of the fastest growing sports in the country. That’s a burgeoning market to get into earlier than later. I don’t know where Marquette draws football players, especially at that level without scholarships. The WIAC has a lot of high level programs at the D3 level that Marquette would compete with for talent. If the city of Milwaukee was producing more talent, maybe you could see it
Yeah and those WIAC schools are going to be a lot more price competitive - and probably way better on the field too.
OTOH, Chicagoland has a ton of football talent.
Marquette couldn't even support a club football team when I was there.
Lacrosse is one of the fastest growing sports in the country. That’s a burgeoning market to get into earlier than later. I don’t know where Marquette draws football players, especially at that level without scholarships. The WIAC has a lot of high level programs at the D3 level that Marquette would compete with for talent. If the city of Milwaukee was producing more talent, maybe you could see it
Fair enough. I wonder if we had simply gone D3 to begin with in 1969 whether that would have been the right move instead of disbanding the program altogether. At that time we would have had a player pipeline and probably would have been able to solve the “small stadium closer to campus” problem as well. Lots of cheap land around campus 30-40 years ago. Oh well.Except that divisions 2 & 3 didn't exist
Thanks for your answer as well fluff.
Except that divisions 2 & 3 didn't exist
I wonder if we had simply gone D3 to begin with in 1969 whether that would have been the right move instead of disbanding the program altogether.
Except that divisions 2 & 3 didn't exist
What about NAIA?
Just to clarify, do you think people would be OK with having a D2, D3, or NAIA basketball team just so that we could have kept football? Because I think that would suck.
Just to clarify, do you think people would be OK with having a D2, D3, or NAIA basketball team just so that we could have kept football? Because I think that would suck.
No not that all. I'm personally happy we don't have football, I think it might be the most overrated "action" sport around. But if we were to keep it by downsizing so that there was a framework in place to join the patriot league with Butler and Georgetown then NAIA seems like it would have been the only option.
But I don't know if its allowed to have one program in the NAIA and the rest in NCAA.
I'm on board to move to naia so we can have football
You're not.
Really the only option for a varsity team is FCS, non-scholarship.
You're not.
Really the only option for a varsity team is FCS, non-scholarship.
Back in the day schools could keep their football at D3 and had their basketball at D1. (Which is how Dayton won two Stagg Bowls in the 1980s). That is, until the NCAA disallowed that, which is how the FCS non-scholarship conferences were formed.
But I don't think that was an option back when MU dropped football.
In before the lock.Just Superbar it
EIGHTTYYYYYYY THREE.Me '83
Me '83
MU would be Top 50 if not for the class of 83.
EIGHTTYYYYYYY THREE.
Worth a listen.
https://www.pushkin.fm/episode/lord-of-the-rankings/
The US News list was released in September.
MU would be Top 50 if not for the class of 83.True class of '83 fcked with everything and anything
Best college ranking thread here and MU Women's Basketball thread in the Superbar. Go figure.
IYKYK
👍
Tied with a number of others. Behind Gonzaga tied at 79.
https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/marquette-university-3863
Discuss.
Yes, and oddly Ave Commons posted about it then, and it was thoroughly discussed.https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=62190.0
Edit: merged for clarity.
Edit 2: Hah, you posted on page 1 of this thread too, DFW
You can make a case for a profitable, non-scholarship D1 football program if you make an assumption that 25 of those players, paying on average a net tuition of $20,000, would only come to MU for football. ($500,000 would easily cover your annual costs.)
But the question is does the MU administration even see this as worth the effort, and my guess is no.
I’ve set a reminder to post on this again in another 6 months.
Why wait so long? It's a long offseason, let's do every 90 days!
You can make a case for a profitable, non-scholarship D1 football program if you make an assumption that 25 of those players, paying on average a net tuition of $20,000, would only come to MU for football. ($500,000 would easily cover your annual costs.)
Yes!
I'm also calendaring dates to post on 1) The Warrior nickname; 2) Marquette starting a D1 football team; and 3) An on campus basketball stadium.
Thanks for your support! #BeTheDifference
Yes!
I'm also calendaring dates to post on 1) The Warrior nickname; 2) Marquette starting a D1 football team; and 3) An on campus basketball stadium.
Thanks for your support! #BeTheDifference
Yes!How about posting a police blotter?
I'm also calendaring dates to post on 1) The Warrior nickname; 2) Marquette starting a D1 football team; and 3) An on campus basketball stadium.
Thanks for your support! #BeTheDifference
How about posting a police blotter?
How bad is it? Seen a few references to campus crime.
How bad is it? Seen a few references to campus crime.The olds are very, very terrified. It's approaching 50% as much crime as their day!
Campus crime is verboten here.
Campus crime is verboten here.
Good, let's set up a separate thread in the Superbar entitled "Campus Events," hey?
Good, let's set up a separate thread in the Superbar entitled "Campus Events," hey?
How bad is it? Seen a few references to campus crime.
In full cancel culture here. Deny the truth and shoot the messenger. Let freedom ring, aina?
In full cancel culture here. Deny the truth and shoot the messenger. Let freedom ring, aina?
I'm glad someone is finally speaking up for the downtrodden male boomer.
Was out to lunch (Conejito's*) yesterday with my wife ('99) and a buddy ('95). Dahmer came up bc of Annie Schwartz's new book. My buddy from '95 was FFP and got dropped off on campus the day before Dahmer story broke. His parents were driving back east and called him in a panic from Youngstown. He's like: Mom, I'm fine.
I work at 14th & St. Paul...I work out at the Rec Plex / Rec Center daily. I'll hit up the MU Sendiks & other spots. We went every MU WNIT game at night and parked on campus side streets. I have a nephew at 14th + Kilbourn, a nanny on N 13th and a neice in Wild Commons plus several friends with kids on campus. I'm pretty tuned into MU safety day and night. This fear mongering about MU's "current" saftey situation by alums is really sad.
* As we walked out I was car jacked, my wife was mugged and my buddy was shot and killed. Just another day in Milwaukee
Was out to lunch (Conejito's*) yesterday with my wife ('99) and a buddy ('95). Dahmer came up bc of Annie Schwartz's new book. My buddy from '95 was FFP and got dropped off on campus the day before Dahmer story broke. His parents were driving back east and called him in a panic from Youngstown. He's like: Mom, I'm fine.
I work at 14th & St. Paul...I work out at the Rec Plex / Rec Center daily. I'll hit up the MU Sendiks & other spots. We went every MU WNIT game at night and parked on campus side streets. I have a nephew at 14th + Kilbourn, a nanny on N 13th and a neice in Wild Commons plus several friends with kids on campus. I'm pretty tuned into MU safety day and night. This fear mongering about MU's "current" saftey situation by alums is really sad.
* As we walked out I was car jacked, my wife was mugged and my buddy was shot and killed. Just another day in Milwaukee
Is cancel culture now defined by the self-proclaimed tough guys as Someone Disagreed With Me and It Hurt My Fee Fees? Because unless I am mistaken all your posts are still up and you have a whole new thread dedicated to your baseless fear mongering. What enormous snowflakes.
I'm not sure it is fear mongering, it is reality. the city of MKE is vastly more dangerous today than it was even ten years ago. From reckless driving, carjakings, etc.. only someone trying to be difficult could argue that point. Believe it or not, much of my family and friends are o the opposite of the aisle politically and the crime situation is one topic that 95% of us agree on.
Now, if you simply want to say that MU is not more dangerous than ten years ago, I think you are kidding yourself. I get a kick of folks on here debating what defines the campus geographically because it really does not matter. Over the past handful of months there have been multiple shootings in or nearby the Third Ward, which is frequented by MU students.
For those of you that live in MKE and think the city is safer, I think you have your head in the sand. I love MKE and want the best for it because I live in the area, work downtown and frequent downtown and Third Ward often socially, but I cannot even remotely say that there are not more moments of concern than a decade ago.
Honestly, I think there are non MKE folks jumping in on the discussion, MKE folks that are not being entirely truthful and the usual jags trying to rile stuff up. It is funny, TSmith talks a big game on here and I bet he is afraid of own shadow when in the big city. My gut tells me he would be Joey Hauser Jr. in a difficult situation.
How ironic as it’s your team are the ones who’s picture captivates and defines the neo snowflake
The city is more dangerous than it has been. But I don't feel unsafe in it. I'm more scared of some of the drivers on Capitol than any violent crime affecting me.
The Lens- I think I have a general idea of where you live and I saw a woman in her mid 60's that was carjacked in her driveway in an area near you, or at least a comp area on your side of town. At 9am she backed her car out of the driveway and went to close her garage door and a 14 year old kid was in the drivers seat a minute later. I grew in a similar type neighborhood on the west side of MKE and that was not normal to be carjacked backing out of an expensive home in broad daylight. Does that not concern you at all?
As for how is "more dangerous" affecting you, you are a smart guy and I think you can figure it out. It takes one split second act by one person to change someone's life and it happens everyday in MKE. Honest, I find it funny that you two have this attitude because I feel badly and am concerned for EVERY person in MKE. You are right Lens, you probably are far from protected from serious crime than others in MKE.
MUfan
Driving is my biggest concern. I work next to The Pfister and a couple times a month there are close calls on Wisconsin Ave.. Call me a boomer, but I consider that a crime.
MUfan
Driving is my biggest concern. I work next to The Pfister and a couple times a month there are close calls on Wisconsin Ave.. Call me a boomer, but I consider that a crime.
I’ve pulled my kid from Marquette. Thank you guys for the warning. I didn’t know Milwaukee was a war zone.
How were you able to extract him?
Helicopter
So you're a Helicopter Parent, huh?
My man, that is literally everywhere. We built bad roads and super safe cars. People think they're invincible in them.
But I promise you, Madison and the surrounding area is just as bad as MKE for bad drivers.
Now I understand . Its the cop's fault we have lawlessness. Silly me, I was worried society had gone to hell. Now I know its only a thing, aina?
The city is more dangerous than it has been. But I don't feel unsafe in it. I'm more scared of some of the drivers on Capitol than any violent crime affecting me.
Milwaukee is more dangerous, but I don't think the Marquette area is.
Stay with me here.
When I was at MU, a woman was sexually assaulted in her own dorm room by a rando off the street. Marquette didn't want to put in blue light phones because it was too expensive. It took the actual murder of a student to get that implemented. In general, crime on and around campus was accepted - by students, by the administration, and by public safety.
Fast forward to now. We have blue light phones. We have the safety shuttle. We have our own armed police forces that is in addition to the Milwaukee Police Department. Anyone on or around campus who follows common sense preventative safety measures is pretty darn safe.
But we also have helicopter parents, social media, and greatly increased expectations. If a kid had his apartment robbed in 1983, they didn't get much more than a "sucks to be you" comment, possibly along with "what did you expect, living in that neighborhood?" These days, a kid gets hassled by a homeless , calls their mom all upset, who posts on social media going "OMG WHAT IS MARQUETTE GOING TO DO ABOUT THIS!?!?
Milwaukee is more dangerous, but I don't think the Marquette area is.
Stay with me here.
When I was at MU, a woman was sexually assaulted in her own dorm room by a rando off the street. Marquette didn't want to put in blue light phones because it was too expensive. It took the actual murder of a student to get that implemented. In general, crime on and around campus was accepted - by students, by the administration, and by public safety.
Fast forward to now. We have blue light phones. We have the safety shuttle. We have our own armed police forces that is in addition to the Milwaukee Police Department. Anyone on or around campus who follows common sense preventative safety measures is pretty darn safe.
But we also have helicopter parents, social media, and greatly increased expectations. If a kid had his apartment robbed in 1983, they didn't get much more than a "sucks to be you" comment, possibly along with "what did you expect, living in that neighborhood?" These days, a kid gets hassled by a homeless , calls their mom all upset, who posts on social media going "OMG WHAT IS MARQUETTE GOING TO DO ABOUT THIS!?!?
Warriorchick
Much of your post is spot on, but the odds of a bad random event happening on or near MU campus is far greater than 5-10 years ago. I had two of my children at MU as recently as five years ago and I did not fear MU was in combat zone and still do not feel that. That said, random violent acts are getting closer and more frequent. I would send my kids there again (if on full ride) in a heartbeat, but that does not mean I think it is the safest campus in America.
I also do think defining the campus by streets is crazy. As I noted yesterday, there have been 3-4 shootings in the Third Ward area over the past half year and a couple in the middle of the day. I am in the Third Ward a great deal and seldom do I not see a ton of MU and UWM students. Plus, Water Street is seen more violent acts in the last year than I can ever remember. I consider Water St and Third Ward as an extension of the campus simply due to the number of students that frequent both areas.
There are folks on here that know far more about how MU brass feels about the safety issue, but I have a good friend in a pretty lofty position that told me crime/safety on campus is one MU's biggest concerns. Now, you can say every school feels that way, but not every school is not in urban environment, an urban environment where murders are up 100% over last year's record year. I am sure Carroll University wants a safe campus and their concerns on how to make a safe campus is different from MU.
Hey, I love MU being in an urban environment and have spent time on campus for 50+ years and will continue to do so. Since the hiring of Shaka, I have been on campus more times in past year than I was when my last two attended MU, so I am not hiding from anything. That said, I am more cautious on where I park or streets I drive to and from MU. Again, maybe that makes me a boomer and I am fine with that.
The FACTS are that MILW is much more dangerous and crime is up across theYes, and as all the data shows this is not specific to MU or Milwaukee, crime is up substantially starting in 2019 all over. And, it still remains far below levels from the 70s, 80s and early 90s, the very time period some of the primary fear mongers attended school. If it is bad now they must have been positively terrified back in the day and I can't believe they didn't transfer so they wouldn't fear for their lives every waking moment.
Board ( compared to 5 / 10 years ago):
2019 … 90 homicides
2021 … 200 + Homicides
2022 .. on pace for 300 plus
Reckless driving is FAR worse all over
MKE, and within the last two years an
MU professor was killed by a driver on campus !
Auto thefts are up over 200% from a few years ago. Non fatal shootings are so numerous that 80% of them are not solved. It’s sad.
It’s something I hope the MU Admin has at or near the top of their list of concerns at all times.
* that said, I have been to the bookstore and had lunch at Real Chili on campus in the last few months. The issue will not keep me away, but it will keep some people away.
Yes, and as all the data shows this is not specific to MU or Milwaukee, crime is up substantially starting in 2019 all over. And, it still remains far below levels from the 70s, 80s and early 90s, the very time period some of the primary fear mongers attended school. If it is bad now they must have been positively terrified back in the day and I can't believe they didn't transfer so they wouldn't fear for their lives every waking moment.
You hit on some basic and very true points. Muggers and other criminals do not like to take chances. They're sometimes even cowardly. If they know that there are armed campus police and see people walking in groups, they are far, far less likely to attack. I kind of get the attitude "I should be able to walk anywhere by myself anytime without worrying about being attacked" but the reality is and has always been that is simply not true.
Way back when I was at Marquette I was nearly mugged. One guy was walking behind me and two others crossed the street to my side and were closing in. I very quickly headed towards Cobeen and they dropped off as soon as I blended into a small group of students. My niece was not as fortunate when she was at Marquette and got mugged. My guess is that, being extremely independent and the" nobody is gonna tell me what I should do!" type, she was walking alone at night.
Spot on about the helicopter parents.
Wrong, cameras don't mean a thing. Otherwise criminals wouldn't rob banks, gas stations, or convenience stores, all of which have cameras. Also, see the Beverly Hills jewelry store heist this week in broad daylight. A tough criminal justice system, with real penalties would do a lot more to deter this activity, aina?
I forgot to mention the cameras that are now everywhere and have helped nab quite a number of bad guys. It takes a special kind of stupid to try to commit a crime in a neighborhood that has cameras everywhere and two sets of police.
Please base this claim on statistics.
Unless you're the type of dentist that would rather crown teeth and fill cavities rather than have his clients brush their teeth.
Have you considered, for even a moment, that perhaps we should brush society's teeth rather than filling it's cavities.
I think some on here are missing a point. There is crime and there is crime. There have been robberies, muggings, assaults and petty stuff forever and will be here for years to come. I would have to believe there have been more gun related incidents on or around campus over the past few years than anytime in my memory. That is the crime, along with the reckless driving due to car thefts, that I am concerned about.
Any idiot committing the crimes I am concerned about is not swayed by camera or armed MU police. I hope my fears are proven wrong for the next fifty years, but I am not going sugarcoat and make comparisons to “when I was at MU”.
If your only solution is more incarceration without addressing the fundamental causes of crime, you’ll never address crime seriously
Wrong, cameras don't mean a thing. Otherwise criminals wouldn't rob banks, gas stations, or convenience stores, all of which have cameras. Also, see the Beverly Hills jewelry store heist this week in broad daylight. A tough criminal justice system, with real penalties would do a lot more to deter this activity, aina?
Actually you are wrong. Cameras have caught many after the fact and have assisted in catching the criminals and prosecuting them. The schmuck who was killing the homeless recently in NYC is one example. Caught by cameras. They are very valuable.
I think both can be true. I think cameras are valuable, but I don't think their mere presence deters criminals as much anymore. Thats not to say I'm advocating for mass incarceration either.
Cameras might help catch the perp after the fact. But does very little from saving me from a bad guy.
And … right on Cue … while this
conversation was going on:
Yesterday on Campus a student was robbed at gun point, and another
person was SHOT by the same alleged offender. In the middle of the day
( Incidents on 17th / 15th and Kilbourn)
Crime in Milw is bad, and getting worse.
Lots of MU kids in the Deer District who still have finals this coming week. Scary.
Bump. Not a good look for Milwaukee last night. Lots of MU kids in the Deer District who still have finals this coming week. Scary.Not a good look for Buffalo? The US os sick......
Are you sure, or are you assuming? I would think most kids aren't doing a lot of partying on the weekend before finals.
My experience is Marquette is far more dangerous than the 80s when I went there.Hail 2nd amendment
The simple answer is guns.
The guys I hung out with and I never saw a gun at Marquette. We saw vagrancy, begging, and sometimes aggressive behavior. Petty theft or vandalism.
I had 2 kids graduate at mu and they brought a group of kids that graduated in 19 and 20 for an event we hosted.
14 out of 20 saw gunfire or a gun.
Very specific incidents..
Wallgreen armed robbery
State gas station robbery 2x
Shoot out by wisn
Shoot out on state street by golf house
2 we’re robbed at gun point.
This in addition to all the stuff I saw.
All left a big impression on them.
Some of their parents are excluding Marquette from sibling choices.
It may be explained away as a small sample size but real to me and the young adults.
I would say I go to games and events but much more aware of the violence and interested if it can be turned around.
Maybe not scientific but real.
Huge problem with only rhetoric, thus far, for answers. The University has to get the fix right and quickly. Unfortunately, MU is not U of Chicago, Penn, Columbia, or Yale, aina?Daughter went to college downtown Boston 10 yrs ago, was rated as a top 5 most dangerous campus for violent crime. Obviously because it was right in the middle of the city. Never worried, lived in Massachusetts knew it was just the same as any other US city.
'hole lotta shakin' goin' on, hey?Has there been another stabbing killing in MU like when I was there? Early 80's just in case.
My experience is Marquette is far more dangerous than the 80s when I went there.
The simple answer is guns.
The guys I hung out with and I never saw a gun at Marquette. We saw vagrancy, begging, and sometimes aggressive behavior. Petty theft or vandalism.
I had 2 kids graduate at mu and they brought a group of kids that graduated in 19 and 20 for an event we hosted.
14 out of 20 saw gunfire or a gun.
Very specific incidents..
Wallgreen armed robbery
State gas station robbery 2x
Shoot out by wisn
Shoot out on state street by golf house
2 we’re robbed at gun point.
This in addition to all the stuff I saw.
All left a big impression on them.
Some of their parents are excluding Marquette from sibling choices.
It may be explained away as a small sample size but real to me and the young adults.
I would say I go to games and events but much more aware of the violence and interested if it can be turned around.
Maybe not scientific but real.
Son of Dahmer? Or the beds are shaking because all of the under 21's had to stay in?Dahmer was living like 5 houses away from my best friends while I was at MU, didn't know until he got caught, COLE.
My experience is Marquette is far more dangerous than the 80s when I went there.
The simple answer is guns.
The guys I hung out with and I never saw a gun at Marquette. We saw vagrancy, begging, and sometimes aggressive behavior. Petty theft or vandalism.
I had 2 kids graduate at mu and they brought a group of kids that graduated in 19 and 20 for an event we hosted.
14 out of 20 saw gunfire or a gun.
Very specific incidents..
Wallgreen armed robbery
State gas station robbery 2x
Shoot out by wisn
Shoot out on state street by golf house
2 we’re robbed at gun point.
This in addition to all the stuff I saw.
All left a big impression on them.
Some of their parents are excluding Marquette from sibling choices.
It may be explained away as a small sample size but real to me and the young adults.
I would say I go to games and events but much more aware of the violence and interested if it can be turned around.
Maybe not scientific but real.
My experience is Marquette is far more dangerous than the 80s when I went there.Ok, Beto.
The simple answer is guns.
The guys I hung out with and I never saw a gun at Marquette. We saw vagrancy, begging, and sometimes aggressive behavior. Petty theft or vandalism.
I had 2 kids graduate at mu and they brought a group of kids that graduated in 19 and 20 for an event we hosted.
14 out of 20 saw gunfire or a gun.
Very specific incidents..
Wallgreen armed robbery
State gas station robbery 2x
Shoot out by wisn
Shoot out on state street by golf house
2 we’re robbed at gun point.
This in addition to all the stuff I saw.
All left a big impression on them.
Some of their parents are excluding Marquette from sibling choices.
It may be explained away as a small sample size but real to me and the young adults.
I would say I go to games and events but much more aware of the violence and interested if it can be turned around.
Maybe not scientific but real.
2027 students accepted is the largest accepted in years is just flat out wrong! Covid compares.
Acceptance rate is so high….to get that many acceptances…
Are you sure, or are you assuming? I would think most kids aren't doing a lot of partying on the weekend before finals.
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=63362.0
2,027 committed by May 1, making it the largest incoming class in several years.
Increases in diversity and average SAT/ACT scores as well.
https://today.marquette.edu/2022/05/marquette-announces-successful-recruitment-year/?fbclid=IwAR3QQvfIIqGeTmvBaRu8RnT7LIYvsFPzAocqU6KgiQjTEgKfiZvTOws0wzc
Is 2019 to 2022 not "years" and "several years"? Acceptance rate has been high for years, a fact that has been discussed on Scoop many times (and bothers quite a few Scoopers).
None of this changes the fact that lots of parents are letting their kids apply to and eventually attend our alma mater.
Ring out ahoya!
My son and 6 of his friends were there taking a break from studying. He said he ran into more people. Fortunately he left before the shooting started.
Huge problem with only rhetoric, thus far, for answers. The University has to get the fix right and quickly. Unfortunately, MU is not U of Chicago, Penn, Columbia, or Yale, aina?
Wow, Shooter ... thank goodness he and his friends are OK.Thanks 82. They were all freshman and wanted to check out the excitement of the event. No easy answers to this growing problem of gun violence.
2027 students accepted is the largest accepted in years is just flat out wrong! Covid compares.
Acceptance rate is so high….to get that many acceptances…
Is that the actual number of incoming students who will attend this fall or the number Marquette accepted?
Number who deposited. You don’t know for sure until the first day of classes but that number won’t change significantly.
The other issue is we don’t know what those students are paying. Did they increase scholarship $$$ to drive a larger class? Who knows…
The other issue is we don’t know what those students are paying. Did they increase scholarship $$$ to drive a larger class? Who knows…
At the last University Academic Senate meeting, administration stated they had to provide more merit aid (financial incentives) to get that large of a class.
With the new student success center opening soon, perhaps more of the students are retained and the merit aid paid out at the front end is made up on the back end by students staying all four years?
Any idea what the acceptance rate was? I don’t take the average GPA stat seriously with grade inflation out of control the last few years. And certainly the ACT/SAT metic isn’t the same now that it’s test optional to apply.
I think 10 of the 11 Big East schools are now test optional.
I wonder how long this fad will last. MIT has already reversed course, saying the SAT/ACT was a better predictor of academic success and provides greater access to a school like MIT for students at "lesser" high schools.
But, I see the trend holding and continuing except for some elite schools. The movement away from standardized testing already started pre-Covid . As fewer kids take tests because they don’t need to, there’s a disincentive for schools to go back and require it. Requiring it will be a barrier to many applicants.
I wonder how long this fad will last. MIT has already reversed course, saying the SAT/ACT was a better predictor of academic success and provides greater access to a school like MIT for students at "lesser" high schools.
They also emphasized the math portion, so I am wondering if that had a bearing considering their STEM focus.
So the more rigorous the discipline the more beneficial the standardized test.
I wonder how long this fad will last.
Decades, if not forever.
It will soon vanish like other noted fads such as talkies and rock n roll.And the internet.
MIT is an outlier. More schools are dropping the requirement than reinstating it, including the entire Ivy League.
What's the opposition here to the elimination of standardized test scores, especially from people who almost certainly never again will apply for college?
What's the opposition here to the elimination of standardized test scores, especially from people who almost certainly never again will apply for college?
And on the other hand I hear about colleges that no longer require prospective students to prove an aptitude to handle real college level courses.
You think standardized tests “prove an aptitude to handle real college level courses?”
Well, on one hand I hear about young people without college diplomas or with degrees that don’t help them land decent jobs saddled with massive debt that needs to be paid off by others. And on the other hand I hear about colleges that no longer require prospective students to prove an aptitude to handle real college level courses.
Is there a connection? Are we setting up students to fail? I’m asking an honest question and don’t give a sh!t about the “value” of my college degree. Whatever it was worth has long since been spent.
Well, on one hand I hear about young people without college diplomas or with degrees that don’t help them land decent jobs saddled with massive debt that needs to be paid off by others. And on the other hand I hear about colleges that no longer require prospective students to prove an aptitude to handle real college level courses.
Is there a connection? Are we setting up students to fail? I’m asking an honest question and don’t give a sh!t about the “value” of my college degree. Whatever it was worth has long since been spent.
Aptitude? Yes. Maturity and willingness to put forth the effort required? No.
But IMO it’s one important component.
Standardized tests don’t “prove” anything of the sort. A positive correlation? Perhaps. But a lot of schools don’t believe so.
Aptitude? Yes. Maturity and willingness to put forth the effort required? No.
But IMO it’s one important component.
you're on to something lenny and maybe too afraid to put it out there cuz the lefties will jump all over it. the quality of student the middle schools and high schools are putting out is getting weaker and weaker. each teacher gets the steaming pile from the previous and they don't have much choice but to pass on what they can, shove it under the carpet and go home to drink themselves to sleep. many of the colleges are dropping the testing requirements because they are afraid of what they will be seeing, except they are doing really well with the crt parts ?-(
We should do more to support teachers. Nah, let’s focus on banning scary books
i will support any teacher who wants to teach. it's the rest of the bullschiff they are doing and promoting that pi$$es me off. if you are a math teacher, teach math, etc
Agreed. Schools are underfunded. Teachers are underpaid and vilified, driving many from the profession. Rewarded with larger class sizes full of kids with lousy parents. Parents who buy them guns for Christmas and pointedly leave them in school when the administrators recommend they be taken home.
Oh, yes, there are problems in the public schools. But there isn't the will, the money, or the parents taking responsibility to fix it.
Yes. You clearly are from a time when schools pumped out the best and brightest.
Well, you’re an idiot.
damn, another zero for the zero
i will support any teacher who wants to teach. it's the rest of the bullschiff they are doing and promoting that pi$$es me off. if you are a math teacher, teach math, etc
you don't know schiff about me sultan. you guys hiding behind your desks. i have to prove myself multiple times per day, every day. there is no tenure in our jobs. we are constantly being evaluated. ain't much room for error dude. your students don't have a choice but to see you. you get paid regardless. you wouldn't last a week in the private sector
you don't know schiff about me sultan. you guys hiding behind your desks. i have to prove myself multiple times per day, every day. there is no tenure in our jobs. we are constantly being evaluated. ain't much room for error dude. your students don't have a choice but to see you. you get paid regardless. you wouldn't last a week in the private sector
What are the math teachers teaching?
BTW it’s too bad that Goose & Co had to take this topic off the rails. It was a good discussion until that point.
Oh well. If you can’t participate in intelligent discussions, blowing up the topic is the next best option.
Um… I don’t teach and most certainly do not have tenure.
And while you don’t have “tenure,” buying the business from daddy is kinda like it right?
so you are saying my daddy is a dumb ass? selling his business, his legacy to someone who is going to crash and burn it? selling it to someone who would embarrass him and everything he's done/built for 40 years? you are even dumber than i thought. i wouldn't want you near my kids much less( A LOT less) even reekos kids
Do you think they have a text group to alert each other when someone needs help on the board?
so you are saying my daddy is a dumb ass? selling his business, his legacy to someone who is going to crash and burn it? selling it to someone who would embarrass him and everything he's done/built for 40 years? you are even dumber than i thought. i wouldn't want you near my kids much less( A LOT less) even reekos kidsBorn on third base, insists he hit a triple.
you guys can't handle disagreements. whenever someone posts a different point of view, ya'll get personal and that's where it goes off the rails
Born on third base, insists he hit a triple.
Born on third base, insists he hit a triple.
you don't know schiff about me sultan. you guys hiding behind your desks. i have to prove myself multiple times per day, every day. there is no tenure in our jobs. we are constantly being evaluated. ain't much room for error dude. your students don't have a choice but to see you. you get paid regardless. you wouldn't last a week in the private sectorInteresting fact...the dismissal rate of teachers is higher than it is at fortune 500 companies.
Well, test scores for today's students are much better today than they were in the 1970s.
Hey, someone remind me, when were the geniuses that comprise Scoop's Meat Crew/Underboard in school?
https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=38
The average reading score for 9-year-old students was 12 points higher in 2020 than in 1971, but not significantly different from the average score in 2012. Thirteen-year-olds scored higher in 2020 with a 5-point gain from 1971, but lower in comparison to 2012.
The overall national trend in mathematics shows improvement for 9-year-old and 13-year-old students in comparison to 1973. The average mathematics score for 9-year-old students was 22 points higher in 2020 than in 1973, and the score for 13-year-olds was 14 points higher
you guys can't handle disagreements. whenever someone posts a different point of view, ya'll get personal and that's where it goes off the rails
Thank a teacherThanks. Kids are more intelligent today. Higher IQs. Also a lot more advanced socially.
Allow me to be the arrogant snob on this one...have a phd in this stuff. Test scores better now than ever in the US with all kids testing (obviously there was segregation and then "special schools"). Comparing across countries is nearly impossible....but the US is the best country at educating students in the upper 50% income bracket...and one of the worst countries for those in the bottom 50% (per ACT). Aristocracy vs. meritocracy...Billy makes a point...the only reason the Obama's and Clinton's were allowed in the Ivy's was because the Ivy's went to a meritocracy (test scores). They have other measures in place now for diversity...but elite private schools essentially had automatic acceptance (think GW Bush). NAACP and OCR not necessarily against testing. ACT cut scores are correlated to essentially say a student has a 85% chance of a B or better in the first college course of that subject. Research shows GPA and grades in most difficult course passed are best predictors of college success.
you don't know schiff about me sultan. you guys hiding behind your desks. i have to prove myself multiple times per day, every day. there is no tenure in our jobs. we are constantly being evaluated. ain't much room for error dude. your students don't have a choice but to see you. you get paid regardless. you wouldn't last a week in the private sector
As an aside, what I’ve seen on 3k and 4K research and the advantages to poorer kids is one of those things that makes me wonder why aren’t we doing this yesterday.there's a pediatrician at uw-madison is known for his research on learning gaps in the first 3 years of life. i should be able to recall his name with ease...but it escapes me. after a year, the gaps are minimal (between upper, middle, and lower)...after two years upper and middle separate from lower....after three years upper separates from middle and the gap between lower and middle (and obviously upper) is nearly impossible to correct. income mobility trending in the wrong direction in this county, and pretty ugly when compared to other countries (though more research that takes immigration into account within those numbers would be beneficial).
So what is the percentage of legacy admits in the Ivy League currently?
there's a pediatrician at uw-madison is known for his research on learning gaps in the first 3 years of life. i should be able to recall his name with ease...but it escapes me. after a year, the gaps are minimal (between upper, middle, and lower)...after two years upper and middle separate from lower....after three years upper separates from middle and the gap between lower and middle (and obviously upper) is nearly impossible to correct. income mobility trending in the wrong direction in this county, and pretty ugly when compared to other countries (though more research that takes immigration into account within those numbers would be beneficial).
hard to argue for a legacy admission process when your mantra is "pull yourself up by your boot-straps" and "no" to affirmative action.
That has to be the funniest regularly used comment in modern parlance. The original meaning of "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" was meant somewhat literally, in the sense that it is something completely impossible. Go ahead, try to grab your shoes and lift yourself off the floor. It cannot be done without outside assistance. The phrase started as a way to poke fun at people trying to do things that were impossible, now it's used as a way to say success is only achieved by managing something that is, quite literally, impossible.Thanks Cliff
Any time someone uses that idiotic phrase, this is the only appropriate response:(https://c.tenor.com/0AytENbN_kwAAAAM/princess-bride.gif)
That has to be the funniest regularly used comment in modern parlance. The original meaning of "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" was meant somewhat literally, in the sense that it is something completely impossible. Go ahead, try to grab your shoes and lift yourself off the floor. It cannot be done without outside assistance. The phrase started as a way to poke fun at people trying to do things that were impossible, now it's used as a way to say success is only achieved by managing something that is, quite literally, impossible.
Any time someone uses that idiotic phrase, this is the only appropriate response:(https://c.tenor.com/0AytENbN_kwAAAAM/princess-bride.gif)
AvidHe/she can comment.
If I’m understanding you correctly and the die is essentially cast by the time children are 3 years old what solutions or at least mitigations would you recommend?
Thanks in advance for your thoughts.
He/she can comment.
I do understand the issue of IQ being set by age 5 and probably younger. So the more time that is wasted when very young, the more time that is lost. Can’t get it back.
I do know that combing 3k and 3k with real learning day care have big dividends and reduced incarceration rates down the road. Can actually close the IQ gap with that model between poor and upper middle class kids. Some countries with this model have in fact closed the IQ gap. Which means a big jump in high school and college graduations for the poor. Interesting, it has no effect on upper middle class and above kids. I guess they already as a group, on average, have the advantages built in to their lives.
He/she can comment.
I do understand the issue of IQ being set by age 5 and probably younger. So the more time that is wasted when very young, the more time that is lost. Can’t get it back.
AvidCorrect...says the guy way smarter than me that did the research at Harvard and now works at UW. Maya Smart actually gets this as well as anyone.
If I’m understanding you correctly and the die is essentially cast by the time children are 3 years old what solutions or at least mitigations would you recommend?
Thanks in advance for your thoughts.
He/she can comment.Nation-wide birth to 3 high quality services and daycare would certainly move the needle. I don't think anyone argues that...they just don't want to pay for it.
I do understand the issue of IQ being set by age 5 and probably younger. So the more time that is wasted when very young, the more time that is lost. Can’t get it back.
I do know that combing 3k and 3k with real learning day care have big dividends and reduced incarceration rates down the road. Can actually close the IQ gap with that model between poor and upper middle class kids. Some countries with this model have in fact closed the IQ gap. Which means a big jump in high school and college graduations for the poor. Interesting, it has no effect on upper middle class and above kids. I guess they already as a group, on average, have the advantages built in to their lives.
Correct...says the guy way smarter than me that did the research at Harvard and now works at UW. Maya Smart actually gets this as well as anyone.
I haven't been a fan of Biden...but some of his policies, tax cuts, etc... have been pretty good in relation to this.
There's no doubt there are things you can do after the age of 3...but they haven't been possible to implement/replicate on a large scale to completely close gaps. For example...ask yourself why charter schools won't take over school districts? Well, except for New Orleans...then they gave it back. Privitization in Sweden is an utter mess. I'm not saying 4K-12 education isn't important...but I am saying the impact in terms of reading and math scores is limited along socio-economic lines, and the push for more privitization isn't proving successful.
Could very well be. To use purely economic terms, investment into student retention initiatives is much more "profitable" than student recruitment. If you can drive up your retention up 3% on a class of 2,000, assuming a net tuition of about $17,000, that's an additional $1 million per year in tuition with just that class. Do that consistently that's $4 million annually not including housing and auxiliaries.
As we've learned more and more about neuoroplasticity, aren't we moving away from former beliefs about intelligence being something entirely established at such an early age, with little room for change?
I'm no expert in this area, but have a read a lot about it, and may be misunderstanding it.
First, I know this is off topic. I am glad Marquette is recognized and hope it continues to be so.
On Brother Pakuni's comments: OK, I've had first hand experience.
Both of my children were adopted from orphanages in the former Soviet Union. It's safe to say both were warehoused and neither received the love, attention and support than most American infants receive. One of my children almost starved to death and the second had such a strong protein deficiency at age 2.5 that parts of her hair were missing as were several of her teeth.
To say the least, my children had severe learning disabilities -- much much more than most Americans will ever see. The job at hand was much larger than anything we thought we were buying into but you learn to deal with it. Our children were great and incredibly determined. They just had to be shown the way!
In our case, my wife re-taught our children the lessons they didn't pick up in grammar school. Ditto for middle school. It took hours and cost my wife her career but she did it because it had to be done. You can never cure learning disabilities and deficiencies from the first two years but you can develop learning strategies to compensate for them. That... we did!
Our children both have college degrees from a regional, accredited university. It took an awful lot of work but they did it. When my daughter received her degree, I took the degree from our daughter's hands and gave it -- for the moment -- to my wife. "This is as much your's as it is her's..." I said. Even my daughter agreed!
P.S. -- We live in a community where learning disabilities are not well tolerated. My wife fought the criticism and perception she was a "bad" Mom for a lot of years. The reality is that when one looks at where our children came from and where they are, our children accomplished more than the best of students in town. My wife is realizing as we grow older how good a Mom she really is!
Kudos to Mrs. DGiesDitto x100
The National Association of College and University Business Officers released a study on tuition discounting rates for both “first-time undergraduates” and “all undergraduates” which continues to rise.You view the detailed NACUBO single page fact sheet at “NACUBO Tuition Discounting Study” - https://www.nacubo.org/Research/2021/NACUBO-Tuition-Discounting-Study
- The new average rate for first-time students was 54.5 percent; for all undergraduates, 49.0 percent.
- More selective schools have lower discount rates (44.8 percent) than less selective schools (58.0%).
- Net revenue for first-time students fell 3.6 percent. Ney revenue for all undergrads rose .6 percent.
First, I know this is off topic. I am glad Marquette is recognized and hope it continues to be so.dgies 9156 you have an excellent family . Congrats to your wife on a job extremely well done and to you for provide the support to make this all happen. Working through the local politics of it all had to be very taxing.
On Brother Pakuni's comments: OK, I've had first hand experience.
Both of my children were adopted from orphanages in the former Soviet Union. It's safe to say both were warehoused and neither received the love, attention and support than most American infants receive. One of my children almost starved to death and the second had such a strong protein deficiency at age 2.5 that parts of her hair were missing as were several of her teeth.
To say the least, my children had severe learning disabilities -- much much more than most Americans will ever see. The job at hand was much larger than anything we thought we were buying into but you learn to deal with it. Our children were great and incredibly determined. They just had to be shown the way!
In our case, my wife re-taught our children the lessons they didn't pick up in grammar school. Ditto for middle school. It took hours and cost my wife her career but she did it because it had to be done. You can never cure learning disabilities and deficiencies from the first two years but you can develop learning strategies to compensate for them. That... we did!
Our children both have college degrees from a regional, accredited university. It took an awful lot of work but they did it. When my daughter received her degree, I took the degree from our daughter's hands and gave it -- for the moment -- to my wife. "This is as much your's as it is her's..." I said. Even my daughter agreed!
P.S. -- We live in a community where learning disabilities are not well tolerated. My wife fought the criticism and perception she was a "bad" Mom for a lot of years. The reality is that when one looks at where our children came from and where they are, our children accomplished more than the best of students in town. My wife is realizing as we grow older how good a Mom she really is!
Kudos to Mrs. DGiesYup, trust me it is all Mrs. dgies. Brother dgies is a sick bird fan, no teal on this one ;D
Yup, trust me it is all Mrs. dgies. Brother dgies is a sick bird fan, no teal on this one ;D
It was indeed all Ms. Dgies. Another Marquette educated woman, she knows her stuff. And, she hates baseball.Love you my brother
The point in bringing this up is that everyone has potential. Our children had an environment where no one gave up on them. When they did, we fought for them.
My daughter had a teacher who told us in a parent-teacher conference that our expectations for her were too much and we should back off. In front of my daughter! At about 60 decibels, the teacher was told nobody tells a child of ours their potential is limited. And if they do, we owe it to my daughter to find her a new school!
We had more than a few moments like that!
Every child deserves a chance! Period!