Sooooo.... Texas?

[MuggsyB]

Usually Hasidic, which are one of the 3 branches of "ultra Orthodox" (aka Haredi) Judaism.  Other less strict Orthodox is usually referred to as "religious" Orthodoxy.  Usually even in modern Orthodox, men and women will sit on separate sides at temple, but Ultra Orthodox goes even farther.  My wife's SIL is modern orthodox and got married in 2019.  I sat with all the men at the wedding on one side, but after the ceremony it was like a normal reception.  But at an UO wedding, men and women stay together and dance in separate rooms and don't intermingle.

Its not unlike many of my customers who are a sect of Hinduism called Jain.  Traditional Jain is strict vegan (eat nothing that was ever alive or that grew underground) so no potatoes, carrots, etc...  as well as no alcohol.  But many of them, especially younger, are "modern Jain".  They will drink, they eat vegan but are a bit more liberal with the vegetables, and so on...

But to the original point, Ultra Orthodox Jews were also the ones having huge gatherings in Brooklyn and Queens during lockdown last Spring and generally do what they please.  Vaccine hesitancy from that group is far from surprising.

That's right.  I had forgotten about Brooklyn last Spring.  But there are also other sects that I find confusing.  About 5 yrs ago I was in South Beach/Miami and a large group of Lubbuvich??  Jews were handing out something on the street.  I didn't look at their literature but I thought it was pretty odd because I don't recall proselytizing at all in the Jewish faith.

[MuggsyB]

Oh...I guess Lubavich are Hasiddic Jews?
It has to be less confusing than some religious groups?  I grew up near the Baihai temple in Wilmette, IL and still have no earthly idea what they believe.  Gorgeous building I must say.

[4everwarriors]

O, sew ewe grew up privileged, aina?

[JWags85]

Watch "Unorthodox" on Netflix.  It's pretty eye-opening.

Not to be confused with "My Unorthodox Life", which is a reality show that can be summarized best as "Jewish Kardashians".

Yea Unorthodox is wild.  My wife was excited to watch My Unorthodox Life but it's painfully scripted, plays fast and loose with details, and is clearly just a big branding vehicle.

Oh...I guess Lubavich are Hasiddic Jews?
It has to be less confusing than some religious groups?  I grew up near the Baihai temple in Wilmette, IL and still have no earthly idea what they believe.  Gorgeous building I must say.

Yep, Lubavitch/Chabad are arguably the most mainstream of Hasidics.  But still pretty out there.

Baha'i is interesting.  It's basically sort of an evolved Mormonism with Christian tenants.  It definitely doesn't have a super clear message or differentiator

[MuggsyB]

Yea Unorthodox is wild.  My wife was excited to watch My Unorthodox Life but it's painfully scripted, plays fast and loose with details, and is clearly just a big branding vehicle.

Yep, Lubavitch/Chabad are arguably the most mainstream of Hasidics.  But still pretty out there.

Baha'i is interesting.  It's basically sort of an evolved Mormonism with Christian tenants.  It definitely doesn't have a super clear message or differentiator

Maybe I'll start my own religion.....none of the other options appeal to me. 

[jficke13]

Maybe I'll start my own religion.....none of the other options appeal to me. 

Worked out for L. Ron.

[forgetful]

Clarifying question... they're going to allow abortions in instances of rape? Or the state is going to eliminate rape as an act?

They are simply going to eliminate rape as a thing, by eliminating all the rapists. Damn, why didn't any other states think of simply getting rid of the rapists.

Now, if they can only protect the cows, from all these wild Texas men.

[Uncle Rico]

They are simply going to eliminate rape as a thing, by eliminating all the rapists. Damn, why didn't any other states think of simply getting rid of the rapists.

Now, if they can only protect the cows, from all these wild Texas men.

If Greg Abbott has a plan to eradicate rape from Texas, I'm confident he can end man-cow love.  A great day for cows in Texas except the ones we eat

[MuggsyB]

Worked out for L. Ron.

Those people are clearly insane.  And asshead criminals.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Abbott Considering Other Measures to Prevent People from Ever Setting Foot in Texas

AUSTIN (The Borowitz Report)—Texas Governor Greg Abbott said that he was "actively considering" additional measures to prevent people from wanting to ever set foot in the state.

Although he acknowledged that new laws banning most abortions, restricting voting, and allowing citizens to carry a gun without a permit or training would dissuade many from visiting Texas, Abbott said that "there's more we can do."

"Maybe we pass a law that says when you have to go to bed every night, or when you're allowed to use a hair dryer," he said. "We need to put our thinking caps on."

"Just spitballing here, but what if we mandated that every visitor to Texas got bitten by a dog or poked with a stick of some kind?" he said. "I'll be damned if that wouldn't do the trick."

Even as he works overtime thinking up with new ideas to alienate potential visitors to Texas, he admitted he was surprised that anyone still wanted to come. "Honestly, I thought me being Governor would be enough to keep people out," he said.

https://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/abbott-considering-other-measures-to-prevent-people-from-ever-setting-foot-in-texas

[tower912]

He can keep working to make sure the power grid can't handle hot or cold.   

[naginiF]

Worked out for L. Ron.

*cough*
that's how all religions started
*cough*

[tower912]

Can I get an amen?

[MU82]

Big difference actually.  There are plenty of Orthodox Jews who live relatively normal lives.  Some don't even wear kippahs. Outside of eating kosher or how they observe the Sabbath on Saturdays, you wouldn't even know.  My BIL is modern orthodox and he runs a bunch of pizzarias and taco joints, wears super trendy clothes, is a major sneaker head, goes to great restaurants and just watches what he orders, and texts me on Saturday all the time.  He just seems like another guy from Brooklyn.

Ultra orthodox are the big fur hats or the prayer tassels with a black vest. Won't even eat outside of a kosher restaurant or kitchen. Women usually aren't educated past middle school and they live in a bubble. 

Israel is far more secular than you think.  The ultra orthodox make up a small percentage of Jews there just like they do here

Very impressed with your knowledge of all this, Wags.

My brother and his wife live in Israel. They are "modern Orthodox," they keep kosher and my brother wears a kippah most of the time. As you said, the men and women are separated at religious services, and women are not allowed to read from the Torah or be part of the 10-man "minyan" that is necessary for a proper service. My SIL is big on women's rights, very vocal on FB and in conversations ... except when it comes to her willingly giving up the right to be an active participant in Jewish services, which my wife considers pretty absurd. "I can't believe your sister-in-law sits in the back there like a second-class citizen."

[muwarrior69]

What?

So stopping an otherwise healthy beating heart of an unborn child is not taking a human life?

Having said that there is a lot I don't like about the Texas law and I doubt SCOTUS will uphold it.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

So stopping an otherwise healthy beating heart of an unborn child is not taking a human life?

What does that have to do with half of the people not following the science? Are you saying that science says that abortion is the taking a human life?

[warriorchick]

Very impressed with your knowledge of all this, Wags.

My brother and his wife live in Israel. They are "modern Orthodox," they keep kosher and my brother wears a kippah most of the time. As you said, the men and women are separated at religious services, and women are not allowed to read from the Torah or be part of the 10-man "minyan" that is necessary for a proper service. My SIL is big on women's rights, very vocal on FB and in conversations ... except when it comes to her willingly giving up the right to be an active participant in Jewish services, which my wife considers pretty absurd. "I can't believe your sister-in-law sits in the back there like a second-class citizen."

Just wondering - does your SIL wear a wig or other head covering?

[Pakuni]

So stopping an otherwise healthy beating heart of an unborn child is not taking a human life?

Having said that there is a lot I don't like about the Texas law and I doubt SCOTUS will uphold it.

If we're calling a fetus an "unborn child," should we call the elderly "undead humans?"

You may be surprised to learn that pro choice people are well aware that abortion means stopping a beating heart, and they're pro choice anyways.

[MU82]

Just wondering - does your SIL wear a wig or other head covering?

I've only been to a few services with them, and the most recent was many years ago, back when they lived in London and not Israel. I can't remember if she wore a head-covering then, and I don't know if she wears one now.

[dgies9156]

Very powerful, brew. Thanks for sharing that.

I like to think that most of our anti-abortion-rights Scoopers are very much into helping children who are less fortunate than their own kids.

But sadly there are many people out there who would force even a woman who was raped and risking death to have a child she won't be able to care for ... and then those same people would spend years whining about that child being a burden on society -- a "taker."

In 2020, there were almost 50,000 Texas children in foster care. Where are the "all life is precious" Texans after the fetuses they fought for become human beings? Hell, I would think Texas lawmakers would have adopted them all!

Oh, and Texas offers no earned-income tax credit for low-income parents, no child tax credit, and no child and dependent care tax credit -- https://www.taxcreditsforworkersandfamilies.org/state/texas/

The fetuses ain't fetuses any more, so eff 'em!

But hey, when you're busy trying to rig future elections with your new Elimination of Voting Rights Law and busy pitting citizens against each other with your new Abortion Vigilante Law, who has time to worry about actual, living, breathing kids?

Brother MU:

Didn't Doctor Beach (or whoever you had for Phil 104) caution you about Glittering Generalities?

Let me walk you through what it truly means to be pro-life.

To begin with, my wife's and my Pro-Life credentials ae well-established with people who know us well. We subscribe to the notion that the Death Penalty is just as wrong as most abortions. I personally find euthanasia repugnant for the same reason. Life is a gift and you nurture it from conception to natural death.

One of us is a Republican and yet we BOTH believe that in a nation as great and as wealthy as the United States, no one should have to spend the night in the streets for lack of shelter. No one should have to suffer in pain due to lack of basic medical care and no one should starve or lack for an education. We try to eliminate bias in our life and though not always successful, we keep trying. Ask 10 Republicans the same thing and probably nine of us would agree to all of this. We might disagree with you as to how to achieve these goals but believe it or not, we have a heart. We do care.

Our faith, the Roman Catholic Church, puts many of these beliefs into action. We Catholics, collectively, are the largest NGO provider of social services in the world. We're the largest NGO provider of educational services in the United States and one has to look no further than our alma mater to realize its impact. Marquette has the largest ever percentage of first time college students in its student body and its minority population is the largest ever. Those of us who support Marquette and other educational institutions -- including, believe it or not, Republicans -- have a big hand in making this happen.

Many of us are no great fans of abortion. It's about our view of life.

If this sounds familiar, it should. We subscribe to the late Cardinal Joseph Bernadin's seamless garment of life teaching. We believe in the sanctity of life and we live it day in and day out.

P.S. -- before you get too hung up on voter suppression, read past the headlines and try to understand what's being legislated. In my new home state of Florida, the ugliness about our voting rules has rained down about as hard as a late afternoon tropical thunderstorm. Our voting rules in Florida under the new law are some of the most liberal in the United States. Far more so than, say, Pennsylvania, Delaware or a number of other eastern states. Keep in mind though that in our last election, both our governor and U.S. Senator won by less than 1 percent of the vote. The 2000 Presidential election hung on Florida and, given the hell our state has gone through over the years, we want to be sure we get it right.

Yes, we require IDs and no, we do not permit ballot harvesting. But if you want to vote early or, as in my case, vote by mail, it's easy. Even for people with physical ailments. Short of hiring election officials to walk a ballot to a person's door and filling it out for them (which should be as illegal as hell), we do a good job. And it will be better next time because we have a new election commissioner in Palm Beach County. If Broward County can get it's act together, we'll be a model for election administration nationally.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Brother MU:

Didn't Doctor Beach (or whoever you had for Phil 104) caution you about Glittering Generalities?

Let me walk you through what it truly means to be pro-life.

To begin with, my wife's and my Pro-Life credentials ae well-established with people who know us well. We subscribe to the notion that the Death Penalty is just as wrong as most abortions. I personally find euthanasia repugnant for the same reason. Life is a gift and you nurture it from conception to natural death.

One of us is a Republican and yet we BOTH believe that in a nation as great and as wealthy as the United States, no one should have to spend the night in the streets for lack of shelter. No one should have to suffer in pain due to lack of basic medical care and no one should starve or lack for an education. We try to eliminate bias in our life and though not always successful, we keep trying. Ask 10 Republicans the same thing and probably nine of us would agree to all of this. We might disagree with you as to how to achieve these goals but believe it or not, we have a heart. We do care.

Our faith, the Roman Catholic Church, puts many of these beliefs into action. We Catholics, collectively, are the largest NGO provider of social services in the world. We're the largest NGO provider of educational services in the United States and one has to look no further than our alma mater to realize its impact. Marquette has the largest ever percentage of first time college students in its student body and its minority population is the largest ever. Those of us who support Marquette and other educational institutions -- including, believe it or not, Republicans -- have a big hand in making this happen.

Many of us are no great fans of abortion. It's about our view of life.

If this sounds familiar, it should. We subscribe to the late Cardinal Joseph Bernadin's seamless garment of life teaching. We believe in the sanctity of life and we live it day in and day out.

P.S. -- before you get too hung up on voter suppression, read past the headlines and try to understand what's being legislated. In my new home state of Florida, the ugliness about our voting rules has rained down about as hard as a late afternoon tropical thunderstorm. Our voting rules in Florida under the new law are some of the most liberal in the United States. Far more so than, say, Pennsylvania, Delaware or a number of other eastern states. Keep in mind though that in our last election, both our governor and U.S. Senator won by less than 1 percent of the vote. The 2000 Presidential election hung on Florida and, given the hell our state has gone through over the years, we want to be sure we get it right.

Yes, we require IDs and no, we do not permit ballot harvesting. But if you want to vote early or, as in my case, vote by mail, it's easy. Even for people with physical ailments. Short of hiring election officials to walk a ballot to a person's door and filling it out for them (which should be as illegal as hell), we do a good job. And it will be better next time because we have a new election commissioner in Palm Beach County. If Broward County can get it's act together, we'll be a model for election administration nationally.

Bravo, DG.  One of the most intelligent things written on here in years.

[muwarrior69]

What does that have to do with half of the people not following the science? Are you saying that science says that abortion is the taking a human life?

Yes!

Life: the condition that distinguishes animals and plants from inorganic matter, including the capacity for growth, reproduction, functional activity, and continual change preceding death.

Abortion stops life.

[Galway Eagle]

Yes!

Life: the condition that distinguishes animals and plants from inorganic matter, including the capacity for growth, reproduction, functional activity, and continual change preceding death.

Abortion stops life.

Three different reactions to this:

1) So a fetus with a terminal condition should be aborted yes?

2) If something can't survive without its host then it doesn't have the full capacity yet to grow, reproduce, or be fully functional.

3) in the strictest sense a cell is alive and you're right but the argument isn't whether a fetus is "alive" in that strictest sense. It is about at what point is it human life.

[MU82]

Brother MU:

Didn't Doctor Beach (or whoever you had for Phil 104) caution you about Glittering Generalities?

Let me walk you through what it truly means to be pro-life.

To begin with, my wife's and my Pro-Life credentials ae well-established with people who know us well. We subscribe to the notion that the Death Penalty is just as wrong as most abortions. I personally find euthanasia repugnant for the same reason. Life is a gift and you nurture it from conception to natural death.

One of us is a Republican and yet we BOTH believe that in a nation as great and as wealthy as the United States, no one should have to spend the night in the streets for lack of shelter. No one should have to suffer in pain due to lack of basic medical care and no one should starve or lack for an education. We try to eliminate bias in our life and though not always successful, we keep trying. Ask 10 Republicans the same thing and probably nine of us would agree to all of this. We might disagree with you as to how to achieve these goals but believe it or not, we have a heart. We do care.

Our faith, the Roman Catholic Church, puts many of these beliefs into action. We Catholics, collectively, are the largest NGO provider of social services in the world. We're the largest NGO provider of educational services in the United States and one has to look no further than our alma mater to realize its impact. Marquette has the largest ever percentage of first time college students in its student body and its minority population is the largest ever. Those of us who support Marquette and other educational institutions -- including, believe it or not, Republicans -- have a big hand in making this happen.

Many of us are no great fans of abortion. It's about our view of life.

If this sounds familiar, it should. We subscribe to the late Cardinal Joseph Bernadin's seamless garment of life teaching. We believe in the sanctity of life and we live it day in and day out.

P.S. -- before you get too hung up on voter suppression, read past the headlines and try to understand what's being legislated. In my new home state of Florida, the ugliness about our voting rules has rained down about as hard as a late afternoon tropical thunderstorm. Our voting rules in Florida under the new law are some of the most liberal in the United States. Far more so than, say, Pennsylvania, Delaware or a number of other eastern states. Keep in mind though that in our last election, both our governor and U.S. Senator won by less than 1 percent of the vote. The 2000 Presidential election hung on Florida and, given the hell our state has gone through over the years, we want to be sure we get it right.

Yes, we require IDs and no, we do not permit ballot harvesting. But if you want to vote early or, as in my case, vote by mail, it's easy. Even for people with physical ailments. Short of hiring election officials to walk a ballot to a person's door and filling it out for them (which should be as illegal as hell), we do a good job. And it will be better next time because we have a new election commissioner in Palm Beach County. If Broward County can get it's act together, we'll be a model for election administration nationally.

Thanks for taking the time to put your thoughts into words. We disagree politically on some of this, but it's obvious that you care about people. It would serve no purpose to debate the areas of disagreement. I wish you and yours good fortune and great health.

[muwarrior69]

Two different reactions to this:

1) So a fetus with a terminal condition should be aborted yes?

2) If something can't survive without its host then it doesn't have the full capacity yet to grow, reproduce, or be fully functional.

3) in the strictest sense a cell is alive and you're right but the argument isn't whether a fetus is "alive" in that strictest sense. It is about at what point is it human life.

I never said a fetus with terminal condition should not be aborted. I never said a pregnant woman diagnosed with a life threatening condition should be denied an abortion, but those are very few.

So what if the law said the state/ hospital is not required to provide a COVID patient with a respirator because his /her ability to breathe on their own is not fully functional would that sit well with any of us?

According to the definition an embryo any embryo is alive and if the embryo is human it is a human life.