More conference realignment talk

[SaveOD238]

I would have agreed but explain their supposed interest in Rice and Tulane?

I've heard the SMU/Rice and even Tulane chatter before.  The Texas schools seem like a no-brainer, but it took me a second to think through Tulane.  However, it does make a lot of sense.

• Recruiting in Texas and Louisiana to compete with the SEC and Big XII who already have a presence there.
• Academic reputation.  This does still matter a bit to the PAC12.
• Presence in 3 time zones.
• In Tulane's case, they're at least a little bit of a rising athletic program.

SDSU is a slam dunk and is going to happen.  I still think Fresno and ONE of the Nevada schools makes a lot of sense.  Boise has had success but is too small to offer much.  Then it's schools in the "near" west, of which Rice or SMU and Tulane actually check a lot of boxes.

[WhiteTrash]

The fact that the P12 is entertaining Rice/SMU/Tulane is truly shocking for a P5 conference.

Like the P12, I don't know of much better options. But it speaks to how bad things have gotten for the P12.

And it appears to possibly getting worse. There is chatter of unequal distributions of revenue because the "new" schools don't move the needle at all for TV. This is an absolute receipt of failure; the animosity will be palpable in the conference from not only the "lesser" schools to the "greater" schools but also the "greater"  towards the "lesser" schools when Tulane or Rice or SDSU are not performing well. Is there any doubt we'll be hearing ASU and Oregon fans complain about the dead weight at the bottom of their conference? The B12 tried this with Texas and it was a complete disaster.

[Scoop Snoop]

The fact that the P12 is entertaining Rice/SMU/Tulane is truly shocking for a P5 conference.

Like the P12, I don't know of much better options. But it speaks to how bad things have gotten for the P12.

And it appears to possibly getting worse. There is chatter of unequal distributions of revenue because the "new" schools don't move the needle at all for TV. This is an absolute receipt of failure; the animosity will be palpable in the conference from not only the "lesser" schools to the "greater" schools but also the "greater"  towards the "lesser" schools when Tulane or Rice or SDSU are not performing well. Is there any doubt we'll be hearing ASU and Oregon fans complain about the dead weight at the bottom of their conference? The B12 tried this with Texas and it was a complete disaster.

Yep. In addition to the scenario you listed, what happens when previously "lesser/greater" schools becomes stronger or weaker?  Do the conference members agree to reapportion the money? 

Notre Dame has been one of the rare exceptions to a school raking in the Big Bucks because they were able to stay independent for so long. Teams like DePaul collect money despite doing nothing other than serving as sparring partners for the rest of the BE. It's just the way it is.

[Hards Alumni]

Yep. In addition to the scenario you listed, what happens when previously "lesser/greater" schools becomes stronger or weaker?  Do the conference members agree to reapportion the money? 

Notre Dame has been one of the rare exceptions to a school raking in the Big Bucks because they were able to stay independent for so long. Teams like DePaul collect money despite doing nothing other than serving as sparring partners for the rest of the BE. It's just the way it is.

Simple.  The greater schools start talking to the other conferences and bail.

[Scoop Snoop]

Simple.  The greater schools start talking to the other conferences and bail.

True, which is just what Texas did. That's always an option available to the biggest names, but the remaining schools may not have that option and their dominance within a conference may fluctuate over the years. Unless the "Power 5" starts taking bball only members, the BE should be free from this. UCONN still has delusions about their FB prospects, so there's that. Hurley wasted no time with pretty much claiming the BE as UCONN's very own conference and MSG as Gampel South.

[El Guerrero 2]

https://www.si.com/college/2023/05/15/college-football-expansion-whats-next-power-5-conferences

I am going to be so freaking happy when BC, Pitt, and Cuse get left out in the cold by the big football schools and have to crawl to the American with their tails between their legs... I just hope the Big East doesn't allow any of them back.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

https://www.si.com/college/2023/05/15/college-football-expansion-whats-next-power-5-conferences

I am going to be so freaking happy when BC, Pitt, and Cuse get left out in the cold by the big football schools and have to crawl to the American with their tails between their legs... I just hope the Big East doesn't allow any of them back.

If Syracuse, Pitt and/or BC want to come back on a UConn-type arrangement, and media partners show them the $$$, you take them in a heartbeat.

[WhiteTrash]

Is it just me or do Colorado and Arizona's presidents sound like they are saying everything possible so as not to be liable for a crappy Pac12 TV deal that will in turn cause them to go to the Big XII? "The lady doth protest too much, methinks"

[WhiteTrash]

If Syracuse, Pitt and/or BC want to come back on a UConn-type arrangement, and media partners show them the $$$, you take them in a heartbeat.

Even BC? I know they were dominant in the old Big East, so maybe.

[El Guerrero 2]

If Syracuse, Pitt and/or BC want to come back on a UConn-type arrangement, and media partners show them the $$$, you take them in a heartbeat.

What confidence should the Big East have that any of those schools are going to be any good at basketball in the future? Boeheim is gone. BC no longer cares about sports. And Pitt is just meh all around. Why dilute the product with them? And I doubt any of them would move the needle with network executives.

[WhiteTrash]

What confidence should the Big East have that any of those schools are going to be any good at basketball in the future? Boeheim is gone. BC no longer cares about sports. And Pitt is just meh all around. Why dilute the product with them? And I doubt any of them would move the needle with network executives.

I totally follow your logic, but I think Pitt and Cuse could/would be strong partners. I'd even put up with their painful fans. BC does nothing for me and BC's 2 fans are not worth it either.

[Uncle Rico]

What confidence should the Big East have that any of those schools are going to be any good at basketball in the future? Boeheim is gone. BC no longer cares about sports. And Pitt is just meh all around. Why dilute the product with them? And I doubt any of them would move the needle with network executives.

Some amalgamated league will form when the music stops and certain schools are left behind

[The Equalizer]

What confidence should the Big East have that any of those schools are going to be any good at basketball in the future? Boeheim is gone. BC no longer cares about sports. And Pitt is just meh all around. Why dilute the product with them? And I doubt any of them would move the needle with network executives.

The BC/Villanova and Georgetown/Syracuse games had higher ratings than any Big East regular season game save the Christmas Day DePaul/Creighton matchup.

Matchups between legacy Big East teams are rating winners, seemingly regardless of the quality of team. If you want more exposure and higher ratings, you can't ignore the former Big East teams.  Here are the highest rated games including the Christmas Day outlier and the next 10 most watched:

 

Audience	Day	Date	Game	Notes	Notes
2991	Sunday	25-Dec	Creighton/Depaul	FOX
1158	Tuesday	22-Nov	Creighton/Arkansas	ESPN	Maui
1104	Wednesday	23-Nov	Creighton/Arizona	ESPN	Maui
1092	Saturday	28-Jan	Xavier/Creighton	CBS
1000	Friday	25-Nov	Xavier/Duke	ESPN	PK Legacy
998	Saturday	10-Dec	Villanova/Boston College	FOX
937	Satudray	10-Dec	Georgetown/Syracuse	ABC
913	Saturday	25-Feb	Uconn/St. Johns	CBS
901	Saturday	11-Feb	Uconn/Creighton	FOX
873	Saturday	7-Jan	Creighton/Uconn	FOX
815	Saturday	17-Dec	Providence/Seton Hall	FOX

[Lennys Tap]

If Syracuse, Pitt and/or BC want to come back on a UConn-type arrangement, and media partners show them the $$$, you take them in a heartbeat.

Without a doubt.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

What confidence should the Big East have that any of those schools are going to be any good at basketball in the future? Boeheim is gone. BC no longer cares about sports. And Pitt is just meh all around. Why dilute the product with them? And I doubt any of them would move the needle with network executives.

You might be right about media executives, but that’s why I said “if.”

[GoldenWarrior11]

It's much more likely that UConn is poached again than BC/Pitt/Cuse return to the Big East.

The endless pursuit of the almighty football dollar is just a moth to a flame. 

[MomofMUltiples]

Yep. In addition to the scenario you listed, what happens when previously "lesser/greater" schools becomes stronger or weaker?  Do the conference members agree to reapportion the money? 

Notre Dame has been one of the rare exceptions to a school raking in the Big Bucks because they were able to stay independent for so long. Teams like DePaul collect money despite doing nothing other than serving as sparring partners for the rest of the BE. It's just the way it is.

DePaul - the Washington Generals of the Big East.

[El Guerrero 2]

It's much more likely that UConn is poached again than BC/Pitt/Cuse return to the Big East.

The endless pursuit of the almighty football dollar is just a moth to a flame.

If UConn picks football over basketball again it’ll go down as one of the most asinine moves in college sports history. We’ve run this experiment before. Literally just look at Syracuse and Pitt; do you want to be them in a decade? Have some self awareness.

I also suspect college football is near its apex in terms of popularity and will start a very slow decline in influence over the next 25 years. Fewer kids playing organized football is going to lead to less interest in the long run. Basketball will never catch up but football will fall back. Heck, in 25 years the gaming team might be the biggest revenue generator.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I also suspect college football is near its apex in terms of popularity and will start a very slow decline in influence over the next 25 years. Fewer kids playing organized football is going to lead to less interest in the long run. Basketball will never catch up but football will fall back. Heck, in 25 years the gaming team might be the biggest revenue generator.

People have been saying football has been near its peak for decades. And I have yet to see any indication that’s accurate.

And people don’t have to play a sport to want to watch a sport.

[WhiteTrash]

People have been saying football has been near its peak for decades. And I have yet to see any indication that’s accurate.

And people don’t have to play a sport to want to watch a sport.

I have to agree. Football is perfect for gambling (fantasy) and that has fueled it growth. As popular as the NFL is, some teams some years have difficulties selling out so the bottom line is not growing from fan interest. Maybe somebody actually knows but I feel like 50% of viewers are not fans of either team.

[Otule's Glass Eye]

I've heard the SMU/Rice and even Tulane chatter before.  The Texas schools seem like a no-brainer, but it took me a second to think through Tulane.  However, it does make a lot of sense.

• Recruiting in Texas and Louisiana to compete with the SEC and Big XII who already have a presence there.
• Academic reputation.  This does still matter a bit to the PAC12.
• Presence in 3 time zones.
• In Tulane's case, they're at least a little bit of a rising athletic program.

SDSU is a slam dunk and is going to happen.  I still think Fresno and ONE of the Nevada schools makes a lot of sense.  Boise has had success but is too small to offer much.  Then it's schools in the "near" west, of which Rice or SMU and Tulane actually check a lot of boxes.

I assume New Mexico, Wyoming, Colorado State, Utah State aren’t at the top of their list? As the other big state schools which geographically make sense but offer Ned to nothing in terms of athletic prowess or TV markets

[Otule's Glass Eye]

I totally follow your logic, but I think Pitt and Cuse could/would be strong partners. I'd even put up with their painful fans. BC does nothing for me and BC's 2 fans are not worth it either.

Syracuse is at least a legendary basketball brand and I’d welcome them back. The other 2 not so much.

[Otule's Glass Eye]

Regarding Big East, I’ve long assumed that if they stuck to the plan of not adding football schools that VCU and Saint Louis make the most sense? Maybe Davidson? Others that are decent bball schools that geographically make sense are Dayton and Drake. However Dayton would share the Cincy market with Xavier so that might be a deal breaker of them ever being added but they are a good competitive bball school. Drake probably too small of a media market (Des Moines) to add.

A sneaky school who could gain traction if they continue their hot start at the D1 level is Saint Thomas (Minneapolis/Saint Paul market)

Not sure who else? Oral Roberts (Tulsa, OK)? Fordham (NYC)? Of course if they choose to not factor in geography that opens up a ton more possibilities. Saint Mary’s? San Francisco?

The impending ACC blowup might be biggest factor of who is added to the BE so maybe they sit tight until that happens?

Probably will add 1 school for short term when the time comes but 2 if UConn leaves. Not sure if their plan would be to get to 12 or eventually 14 or 16 teams.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Meanwhile in the ACC....

https://twitter.com/Brett_McMurphy/status/1658174167789756433?t=skhQVqDK8hHu_dQL1-eyGg&s=19

Clemson, FSU, Miami, UNC, NC State, Virginia & Virginia Tech are “The Magnificent 7” ACC schools, sources told @ActionNetworkHQ. These schools, @RossDellenger reported, have met in past several months, w/lawyers examining grant-of-rights to determine just how unbreakable it is. ACC deal runs thru 2036

I don't see the GoR lasting until 2036

[Otule's Glass Eye]

Meanwhile in the ACC....

https://twitter.com/Brett_McMurphy/status/1658174167789756433?t=skhQVqDK8hHu_dQL1-eyGg&s=19

Clemson, FSU, Miami, UNC, NC State, Virginia & Virginia Tech are “The Magnificent 7” ACC schools, sources told @ActionNetworkHQ. These schools, @RossDellenger reported, have met in past several months, w/lawyers examining grant-of-rights to determine just how unbreakable it is. ACC deal runs thru 2036

I don't see the GoR lasting until 2036

Give me Duke to the Big East