collapse

* '23-'24 SOTG Tally


2023-24 Season SoG Tally
Kolek11
Ighodaro6
Jones, K.6
Mitchell2
Jones, S.1
Joplin1

'22-23
'21-22 * '20-21 * '19-20
'18-19 * '17-18 * '16-17
'15-16 * '14-15 * '13-14
'12-13 * '11-12 * '10-11

* Big East Standings

* Recent Posts

NBA green room by Juan Anderson's Mixtape
[Today at 01:02:02 PM]


Lakers Going After Hurley by Uncle Rico
[Today at 12:10:26 PM]


Bill Scholl Retiring by We R Final Four
[Today at 11:50:43 AM]


2024 Transfer Portal by tower912
[Today at 08:35:27 AM]


Recruiting as of 6/15/24 by Jockey
[June 15, 2024, 06:14:18 PM]


President Lovell Passes Away by Skatastrophy
[June 15, 2024, 09:14:49 AM]


Media Rights Update by Shooter McGavin
[June 15, 2024, 07:12:21 AM]

Please Register - It's FREE!

The absolute only thing required for this FREE registration is a valid e-mail address.  We keep all your information confidential and will NEVER give or sell it to anyone else.
Login to get rid of this box (and ads) , or register NOW!

* Next up: The long cold summer

Marquette
Marquette

Open Practice

Date/Time: Oct 11, 2024 ???
TV: NA
Schedule for 2023-24
27-10

Author Topic: More conference realignment talk  (Read 379593 times)

Otule's Glass Eye

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1356
Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #1650 on: November 02, 2022, 11:48:38 PM »
Meh.  Give me Dayton.   Resurrect the old rivalry.

Give me Dayton and Davidson, both pretty consistent tournament teams

The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 12164
  • “Good lord, you are an idiot.” - real chili 83
Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #1651 on: November 03, 2022, 04:45:43 AM »
I get it.  Now, Fox says find a 12th team.  Gonzaga says no.   Who is your pick and why?

SLU. Decent history. New market.

Then Loyola. Then Dayton.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

tower912

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 23926
Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #1652 on: November 03, 2022, 05:40:44 AM »
The Big East isn't actively looking at anyone.
I assume this is the case.   However, it would be negligent to not have a plan just in case.
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

brewcity77

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 26536
  • Warning-This poster may trigger thin skinned users
    • Cracked Sidewalks
Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #1653 on: November 03, 2022, 06:12:59 AM »
The real question here is who leaked that this meeting took place last week. My suspicion is that it was Gonzaga. Yormark can say all he wants about telegraphing intentions, but if he really wants to add Gonzaga, the way to do it is keep quiet until there's something to announce.

Instead, this comes out as the Big East is meeting in NYC? Virtually no chance that's a coincidence. This is a signal flag that Gonzaga is going to move up and letting all the suitors know it's put up or shut up time. I'd be very surprised if it wasn't someone at Gonzaga that made sure this went public exactly when it did.
This space reserved for a 2024 2025 National Championship celebration banner.

The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 12164
  • “Good lord, you are an idiot.” - real chili 83
Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #1654 on: November 03, 2022, 06:28:57 AM »
The real question here is who leaked that this meeting took place last week. My suspicion is that it was Gonzaga. Yormark can say all he wants about telegraphing intentions, but if he really wants to add Gonzaga, the way to do it is keep quiet until there's something to announce.

Instead, this comes out as the Big East is meeting in NYC? Virtually no chance that's a coincidence. This is a signal flag that Gonzaga is going to move up and letting all the suitors know it's put up or shut up time. I'd be very surprised if it wasn't someone at Gonzaga that made sure this went public exactly when it did.

Yeah these are good points. To compound this, why would the B12 expand to include them AFTER they announced their new media deal?
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

Scoop Snoop

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2538
Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #1655 on: November 03, 2022, 08:16:41 AM »
As for Dayton, I can overlook the arrogant fans and school that act like they are UNC, Kentucky & UCLA all rolled into one. I really don't like the proximity to Xavier.

Saint Louis checks a lot of boxes except tradition and the new arena is smallish for BE.
VCU - like Dayton, I don't like the proximity to GTown.
Loyola - DePaul

I get the Xavier/Dayton proximity but VCU/GTown? Yes, on a map-they are close but only on a map. Speaking from first-hand experience over many years-driving time was once about 2 hours but today 3 hours minimum and closer to 4 is much more realistic. Add in that the two metro areas have nothing to do with each other -no love lost between them- and Gtown is acting like that no longer care about bball. VCU fans and Richmond enthusiastically support their team unlike (reportedly) St. Louis fans.
Wild horses couldn't drag me into either political party, but for very different reasons.

"All of our answers are unencumbered by the thought process." NPR's Click and Clack of Car Talk.

The Equalizer

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1788
Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #1656 on: November 03, 2022, 08:33:02 AM »
It is not an easy / obvious answer. As for Dayton, I can overlook the arrogant fans and school that act like they are UNC, Kentucky & UCLA all rolled into one. I really don't like the proximity to Xavier.

I think market is a major factor (see Big10 with Rutgers & Maryland) along with tradition and competitiveness.

Saint Louis checks a lot of boxes except tradition and the new arena is smallish for BE.
VCU - like Dayton, I don't like the proximity to GTown.
Loyola - DePaul
I think the MVC is picked over at this point (Bradley is tempting with the coach there  :D)

Does Memphis want to go independent in football?

On arena capacity, Chaifetz is on par with the Cintas Center, Wintrust, Gampel, and Hinkle. And larger than Carnesecca and Finneran where St. Johns and Villanova play at least some games each year--and St. Louis can always do the same and shift some games to the Enterprise Center, which would be one of the larger venues in the Big East.  I don't see venue capacity as an issue here.

In terms of distance, why would the 54 miles from Dayton to Cincinnati be problematic, but not the 51 miles from Providence to Storrs or 41 miles from Seton Hall to St. Johns?   As far as the 109 miles from Richmond (VCU) to DC being too close, it would be about 25 miles more distant than Marquette is from DePaul.  Plus, the St. Johns/Seton Hall, Providence/Uconn, and Seton Hall/Villanova pairs are all closer than Richmond to DC, and Villanova to Georgetown is only marginally more distant. 

WhiteTrash

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2889
Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #1657 on: November 03, 2022, 08:33:10 AM »
Yeah these are good points. To compound this, why would the B12 expand to include them AFTER they announced their new media deal?
Is this Yormark messing with the PAC12? In the BIGXII interest in Gonzaga and SDSU a little too coincidental right after USC & UCLA bolt?

The PAC12 is saying they will get more $ than the BIGXII in their new TV deal, and I believe them. Fact is if they don't, they will lose all credibility with their member schools after publicly announcing they will surpass the BIGXII, but rumors are that it will be on Amazon and Apple and PAC12 visibility will go down. Even with more money in the PAC12, schools may bolt for the BIGXII.

Interesting times indeed.

WhiteTrash

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2889
Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #1658 on: November 03, 2022, 08:35:56 AM »
On arena capacity, Chaifetz is on par with the Cintas Center, Wintrust, Gampel, and Hinkle. And larger than Carnesecca and Finneran where St. Johns and Villanova play at least some games each year--and St. Louis can always do the same and shift some games to the Enterprise Center, which would be one of the larger venues in the Big East.  I don't see venue capacity as an issue here.

In terms of distance, why would the 54 miles from Dayton to Cincinnati be problematic, but not the 51 miles from Providence to Storrs or 41 miles from Seton Hall to St. Johns?   As far as the 109 miles from Richmond (VCU) to DC being too close, it would be about 25 miles more distant than Marquette is from DePaul.  Plus, the St. Johns/Seton Hall, Providence/Uconn, and Seton Hall/Villanova pairs are all closer than Richmond to DC, and Villanova to Georgetown is only marginally more distant.

Okay then, my answer is VCU and Saint Louis. Then Dayton when hell freezes over.

shoothoops

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1801
Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #1659 on: November 03, 2022, 08:51:29 AM »
For those discussing arena size/attendance…..

3 of 11 Big East Teams averaged 10k fans per game this past season. Marquette was one of them. (Creighton, and UConn averaged 10k plus) MU is a pretty consistent 13k plus annually average. Villanova, Butler, Xavier are in the 9k average range. (DePaul, Georgetown, St. John’s bringing the bottom in the 3k, 5k, 6k range average)

« Last Edit: November 03, 2022, 08:58:50 AM by shoothoops »

Uncle Rico

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 10175
    • Mazos Hamburgers
Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #1660 on: November 03, 2022, 09:12:18 AM »
Okay then, my answer is VCU and Saint Louis. Then Dayton when hell freezes over.

The only school worth adding at the moment is Gonzaga.  Because of TV negotiations, things are seemingly pressing.  Ideally, the league waits to see how things shake out with the major conferences. 
Ramsey head thoroughly up his ass.

TAMU, Knower of Ball

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 22237
  • Meat Eater certified
Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #1661 on: November 03, 2022, 09:57:12 AM »
The only school worth adding at the moment is Gonzaga.  Because of TV negotiations, things are seemingly pressing.  Ideally, the league waits to see how things shake out with the major conferences.

TAMU

I do know, Newsie is right on you knowing ball.


Billy Hoyle

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2735
  • Retire #34
Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #1662 on: November 03, 2022, 12:40:42 PM »
The real question here is who leaked that this meeting took place last week. My suspicion is that it was Gonzaga. Yormark can say all he wants about telegraphing intentions, but if he really wants to add Gonzaga, the way to do it is keep quiet until there's something to announce.

Instead, this comes out as the Big East is meeting in NYC? Virtually no chance that's a coincidence. This is a signal flag that Gonzaga is going to move up and letting all the suitors know it's put up or shut up time. I'd be very surprised if it wasn't someone at Gonzaga that made sure this went public exactly when it did.

The same guy who leaks every GU conference rumor: Mark Few. Only this time the AD was aware and involved.
“You either smoke or you get smoked. And you got smoked.”

Uncle Rico

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 10175
    • Mazos Hamburgers
Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #1663 on: November 03, 2022, 12:46:15 PM »
The same guy who leaks every GU conference rumor: Mark Few. Only this time the AD was aware and involved.

Can’t wait until they’re in a new league
Ramsey head thoroughly up his ass.

MU Fan in Connecticut

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 3473
Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #1664 on: November 03, 2022, 02:13:36 PM »
I get the Xavier/Dayton proximity but VCU/GTown? Yes, on a map-they are close but only on a map. Speaking from first-hand experience over many years-driving time was once about 2 hours but today 3 hours minimum and closer to 4 is much more realistic. Add in that the two metro areas have nothing to do with each other -no love lost between them- and Gtown is acting like that no longer care about bball. VCU fans and Richmond enthusiastically support their team unlike (reportedly) St. Louis fans.

Passage between DC and Fredericksburg is always a nightmare.  I've never not seen a slow down.  Are they ever going to finish the I-95 construction in Virginia?

dgies9156

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 4056
Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #1665 on: November 03, 2022, 02:22:05 PM »
Passage between DC and Fredericksburg is always a nightmare.  I've never not seen a slow down.  Are they ever going to finish the I-95 construction in Virginia?

Uh, you been on the Kennedy between Chicago and Milwaukee. The first seven miles takes longer than the last 83.

Since when did highway congestion figure into conference alignment? If so, Georgia would be out of the SEC so fast, UGA would start meowing. Nobody in the SEC except maybe South Carolina can avoid Atlanta on the way to Athens!

Tums Festival

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1284
Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #1666 on: November 03, 2022, 06:25:24 PM »
If Gonzaga leaked the meeting between them and the BigXII then the school is probably trying to start a bidding war between the Big East, Big XII, and Pac 12. Gonzaga wants to move up to a power conference and it's offering their "brand" as the selling point. Gonzaga to the Big East would be major news. By comparison, nobody cares if Dayton, St. Louis, Davidson, or any of the other schools not named Gonzaga join the conference.
"Every day ends with a Tums festival!"

Billy Hoyle

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2735
  • Retire #34
Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #1667 on: November 03, 2022, 08:32:28 PM »
Can’t wait until they’re in a new league

They’ve gotten everything they can from the WCC. Nothing more financially to squeeze from them. Talking with some GU contacts today, the concern about costs for olympic sports to travel can be addressed by dropping sports. Foe example, no current Big 12 schools have Men’s Soccer. See ya, gents.
“You either smoke or you get smoked. And you got smoked.”

WhiteTrash

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2889
Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #1668 on: November 03, 2022, 09:35:33 PM »
The only school worth adding at the moment is Gonzaga.  Because of TV negotiations, things are seemingly pressing.  Ideally, the league waits to see how things shake out with the major conferences.
I agree but the question was any school except Gonzaga.

Uncle Rico

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 10175
    • Mazos Hamburgers
Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #1669 on: November 04, 2022, 04:17:33 AM »
They’ve gotten everything they can from the WCC. Nothing more financially to squeeze from them. Talking with some GU contacts today, the concern about costs for olympic sports to travel can be addressed by dropping sports. Foe example, no current Big 12 schools have Men’s Soccer. See ya, gents.

Sure.  Chicos used to tell us how NIL was going to lead to other sports being dropped, too.
Ramsey head thoroughly up his ass.

The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 12164
  • “Good lord, you are an idiot.” - real chili 83
Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #1670 on: November 04, 2022, 07:35:21 AM »
They’ve gotten everything they can from the WCC. Nothing more financially to squeeze from them. Talking with some GU contacts today, the concern about costs for olympic sports to travel can be addressed by dropping sports. Foe example, no current Big 12 schools have Men’s Soccer. See ya, gents.


Pennywise and pound foolish.

Gonzaga has 30 men on its soccer roster. The scholarship limit is 10. (9.9 actually but I am rounding up.)  If those 20 FTE are paying a net tuition revenue of around $20,000, that would mean $400,000 in revenue that would be gone if they dropped soccer. That is way more than the marginal cost of educating those students and funding the operations of the team - including the increased travel.  I am not including the room and board those 20 FTE would pay either.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

Billy Hoyle

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2735
  • Retire #34
Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #1671 on: November 04, 2022, 01:41:59 PM »

Pennywise and pound foolish.

Gonzaga has 30 men on its soccer roster. The scholarship limit is 10. (9.9 actually but I am rounding up.)  If those 20 FTE are paying a net tuition revenue of around $20,000, that would mean $400,000 in revenue that would be gone if they dropped soccer. That is way more than the marginal cost of educating those students and funding the operations of the team - including the increased travel.  I am not including the room and board those 20 FTE would pay either.

you're saying $400,000 a year (generous amount) is more than the additional $10+ million a year (likely much more) GU will realize from being in a Power 5 conference? They'd also gain back $200k a year in coaching salaries alone by dropping MSOC. And male student-athletes have no recourse under Title IX, so no fights. 

And considering the demand to get into GU, they'll fill those male spots immediately and not have to provide them athletic aid, expenses, Alston benefits, travel, etc.
“You either smoke or you get smoked. And you got smoked.”

The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 12164
  • “Good lord, you are an idiot.” - real chili 83
Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #1672 on: November 04, 2022, 02:00:17 PM »
you're saying $400,000 a year (generous amount) is more than the additional $10+ million a year (likely much more) GU will realize from being in a Power 5 conference?

No.  What I am saying is that they would find a spot for their soccer team to play - they wouldn't drop the sport.  The WCC might allow them to stay.  The WAC has a couple Mountain West members as soccer-only schools. It isn't hard.


And considering the demand to get into GU, they'll fill those male spots immediately and not have to provide them athletic aid, expenses, Alston benefits, travel, etc.

Gonzaga's acceptance rate is 72.9%.  I am pretty sure that Gonzaga would be able to keep its men's soccer team AND add twenty more students if it could.
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 12164
  • “Good lord, you are an idiot.” - real chili 83
Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #1673 on: December 15, 2022, 09:09:30 AM »
UCLA's move to the Big Ten was approved by the UC Board of Regents. They will have to pay some sort of tax to Berkeley however.

https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/35254728/uc-regents-approve-ucla-big-ten-move-include-conditions
“True patriotism hates injustice in its own land more than anywhere else.” - Clarence Darrow

StillAWarrior

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 4222
Re: More conference realignment talk
« Reply #1674 on: December 15, 2022, 09:49:08 AM »
Gonzaga has 30 men on its soccer roster. The scholarship limit is 10. (9.9 actually but I am rounding up.)  If those 20 FTE are paying a net tuition revenue of around $20,000, that would mean $400,000 in revenue that would be gone if they dropped soccer. That is way more than the marginal cost of educating those students and funding the operations of the team - including the increased travel.  I am not including the room and board those 20 FTE would pay either.

On a somewhat related note, Mount Union has 196 kids on their football roster.* That's damn near 10% of their students. Talk about using sports to drive revenue. Overall, more than 40% of the students at Mount Union participate in intercollegiate athletics.

*Go ahead and click on the link and take a look at that team picture. There are so many kids it looks ridiculous.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2022, 09:51:34 AM by StillAWarrior »
Never wrestle with a pig.  You both get dirty, and the pig likes it.