2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs

[MuggsyB]

Holmgren has a lot of skills, there's no question about that.  But does he do anything exceptionally well?  I think the NBA gane is so different but do we expect him to be able to score in isolation or down on the block?  Is he sort of in the Anthony Davis mold?

[Hards Alumni]

Bradley definitely didn't live up to his draft position, but I'm not sure being too thin was the reason. He came in 45 pounds heavier than Chet and was able to bulk up. He was just inconsistent.

And if we have to dig back two decades to find one example, that wouldn't be something that gives me pause. The talk around Chet reminds me a lot of the talk around Durant coming out. He was too skinny, he wasn't strong enough (zero reps of 225), he was going to get pushed around, and all he's done since then is win Rookie of the Year, become a perennial All-Star and All-NBA player, and be named to the Top-75 list.

Not saying Chet will be Durant, but dismissing him because of something that at best rarely holds anyone back seems like a mistake. I'm not sure who will end up best, my vote would probably be Chet with Jabari Smith a very close second. I love Chet's unique abilities, but think Smith's skillset is tailored perfectly to today's NBA. Banchero and Ivey should be fine, but I see them as more likely 2nd or 3rd best players on a good team than potential alphas.

Chet is also 6 inches shorter than Shawn.

[Hards Alumni]

Sure, but if we're going to look specifically at rim protection, that wasn't a problem for the aforementioned Bradley. It remained a strength in the NBA. He did lead the league in blocks once and holds the single-season blocks record for both the 76ers and Mavericks (actually all of the top-5 Mavs single seasons).

His rebounding and block numbers were also still high in both of the games you mention and his Tier A+B rebounding and block numbers are right on track with his overall numbers, so it's not like he wilted in the face of tough opposition. Will he have to add strength to not be bullied by the Embiid/Giannis/Jokic types? Sure. But that's the case for literally everyone entering the NBA, and some players who have already been in that league for years.

The most important thing is how Shawn Bradley has completely changed the fate of western civilization.

[brewcity77]

Holmgren has a lot of skills, there's no question about that.  But does he do anything exceptionally well?  I think the NBA gane is so different but do we expect him to be able to score in isolation or down on the block?  Is he sort of in the Anthony Davis mold?

He has phenomenal timing and length for shot-blocking, he shot 39% from three and his size makes contesting those shots difficult, and he's an exceptional rebounder. The thing I keep coming back to is there were a few times during the season when you would hear "Chet Holmgren became the first player to ever do X." When someone has the ability to produce in ways no one ever has before, it seems worth paying attention to. Guys like Durant, Doncic, or Trae Young that put up silly numbers that verge on unprecedented often seem to do well even when there are detractors (Durant's frame, Doncic's competition level, Young's size/athleticism) when they are in the predraft process. And the reason he's considered a unicorn is because his mold is different than anyone we've seen before.

[Jockey]

Here's my tier 1 of this draft:

1. Paolo Banchero
The best chance to be a number 1 offensive option in this draft.  Elite handles for his size and very good court mapping.  Questions about his defense, but I think he has the tools to be serviceable.  Better than Julius Randle, not as good as Giannis.

2. Chet Holmgren
Elite defensive impact but I only see a complementary scorer.  Great fit for OKC as a pick-and-roll/pick-and-pop threat. Marcus Camby with a jumpshot. Weight is obviously the main concern.

3. Jabari Smith
Elite shooting and above average defender. I'm not convinced he can create his own shot or distribute as well as Banchero.  If that develops, he could be the best player of this draft. But right now I'm getting Rashard Lewis vibes.

4. Jaden Ivey
Elite speed and leaping ability gives him a huge upside, but I think he's farther away than the top 3. Improved 3 point shooting, but still kinda suspect.  No midrange game, weak left hand, and bad defense.  But the athleticism gives him as much upside as anyone in the draft.  As a prospect, I think he's similar to Russell Westbrook coming out of college. Can he improve at the same rate?

Any of these four could wind up the best player in this draft, but they all have pretty significant question marks.

I understand those who think Banchero should be No. 1. Heck, he is my favorite foe Rookie of the year no matter which team he goes to.

But he is very NBA ready and will be closer to his ceiling as a rookie than the other guys. The NBA looks at where they will be in 3-4 years rather than where they are as a rookie, though. Smith and Holmgren both have higher ceilings.

[The Sultan]

Don't get me wrong, I don't think Holmgren will be a bust at all.  I just think I would rather go with Smith or Banchero.

Time may prove the wrong - as it often does.

[brewcity77]

I understand those who think Banchero should be No. 1. Heck, he is my favorite foe Rookie of the year no matter which team he goes to.

But he is very NBA ready and will be closer to his ceiling as a rookie than the other guys. The NBA looks at where they will be in 3-4 years rather than where they are as a rookie, though. Smith and Holmgren both have higher ceilings.

Banchero reminds me a lot of Glenn Robinson, not in terms of his game, but in that I think he will be a very useful, productive player for a long time but probably never hit superstar status.

[JWags85]

Sure, but if we're going to look specifically at rim protection, that wasn't a problem for the aforementioned Bradley. It remained a strength in the NBA. He did lead the league in blocks once and holds the single-season blocks record for both the 76ers and Mavericks (actually all of the top-5 Mavs single seasons).

His rebounding and block numbers were also still high in both of the games you mention and his Tier A+B rebounding and block numbers are right on track with his overall numbers, so it's not like he wilted in the face of tough opposition. Will he have to add strength to not be bullied by the Embiid/Giannis/Jokic types? Sure. But that's the case for literally everyone entering the NBA, and some players who have already been in that league for years.

Compare Chet to Rudy Gobert.  Gobert is a bit taller, has a longer wingspan by 3-4 inches...and 50 lbs

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

Banchero reminds me a lot of Glenn Robinson, not in terms of his game, but in that I think he will be a very useful, productive player for a long time but probably never hit superstar status.

Possibly, but I feel similarly about Chet and Jabari.  Good to very good players but not superstars.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

I understand those who think Banchero should be No. 1. Heck, he is my favorite foe Rookie of the year no matter which team he goes to.

But he is very NBA ready and will be closer to his ceiling as a rookie than the other guys. The NBA looks at where they will be in 3-4 years rather than where they are as a rookie, though. Smith and Holmgren both have higher ceilings.

I disagree that Smith and Holmgren have higher ceilings.  I think all three have comparable ceilings.

[Jockey]

The most important thing is how Shawn Bradley has completely changed the fate of western civilization.

The Bradley comparisons are lazy (not saying you made them).

Similaries:
1. Tall
2. White
3. Shot blocker

That's it. Bradley couldn't:
1. Handle the ball
2. Shoot
3. Pass
4. Run the floor

And the one real basketball skill of Bradley - blocking shots - will be surpassed by Holmgren.

[Spotcheck Billy]

Who's the last NBA prospect that failed because they were too skinny? Too big, unable to control their weight, sure, but I don't remember many guys that were too thin to succeed.

I will never forget Tito Horford's selection by the Bucks.

[lawdog77]

The Bradley comparisons are lazy (not saying you made them).
And the one real basketball skill of Bradley - blocking shots - will be surpassed by Holmgren.

Bookmark this. Shawn Bradley is #15 all time in blocked shots.

[MU82]

Similaries:
1. Tall
2. White
3. Shot blocker

That's it. Bradley couldn't:
1. Handle the ball
2. Shoot
3. Pass
4. Run the floor

I agree with this based on what we know today. But when Bradley was being touted for the 1993 draft, there were stories aplenty about him being about to hit outside shots and dribble behind the back. He was considered a great athlete for his size, as this pre-draft article points out:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/sports/1993/06/25/a-tall-order-for-the-nba/f1941ee5-dce0-4b5f-a593-2fcd3d99bdc2/

Now 7 feet 6, he competitively ran the 400 and 800 meters and played quarterback and wide receiver when he was 6-4 to 6-8 in junior high. He batted .407 as a 7-5 pitcher/first baseman during his junior year at Emery High School in his hometown of Castle Dale, Utah, a ranching and coal mining town, where Bradley grew up on a farm. His closest neighbors, an aunt and uncle, lived a mile away.

He shot a 42 for nine holes as a 7-6 golfer his senior year in high school. For fun these days, he water skis. "It's quite a sight to see Shawn on a single slalom ski," his father, Reiner, said.

[MuggsyB]

I could be off about Holmgren.  A lot of people think he's a generational talent abd love the guy. 

[tower912]

It is an opinion, Muggsy.   

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Banchero refused to work out with the Magic. It's gonna be Jabari #1

[Jockey]

Banchero refused to work out with the Magic. It's gonna be Jabari #1

That's what most experts have been saying for months.

[Uncle Rico]

That's what most experts have been saying for months.

Woj says not so fast

[MuggsyB]

Is Banchero auditioning as the Riddler in a new Batman flick?  WTF?

[BM1090]

If it's Banchero, Woj botched this one from the start.

[MuggsyB]

Wow.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

Congrats to all of the bettors who bet Paolo #1 before the line moved.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

Now the question is:

Will Banchero be traded to Houston after the Rockets pick at 3?

[MuggsyB]

Don't ever forger Bilas in 2003, in his "Bilas' Best" rated Kirk Hinrich ahead of Dwyane Wade.   

OOOOOOOOOOPS.