2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs

[MU82]

He might be.  He might just be one of the best.  But that's not the take you originally had.

It's the exact take I've always had.

This is a ridiculous statement.  The only time Jordan even came close to this was early in his career when he had no one else around him in 1987-88 and 88-89.  And those weren't the lock down defensive years of the 1990s - the average PPG for an NBA game was just under what it is now.  And FG% was higher.

1980s NBA was hardly the defensive masterpiece you are making it out to be. 

Some of this is valid criticism. My claim that he could "easily average 40" was unnecessary exaggeration. PPG were similar in the late-80s, and Jordan certainly didn't have much talent around him when he was scoring 35-37 ppg.

But the latter fact also meant he was the focus of every single defense; there were no other Bulls players worth defending. That he scored 37 ppg while often being double-teamed and rarely being left alone is pretty incredible IMHO. And even after Pippen, Grant and others started to mature, the Pistons created a template for beating the Bulls by instituting "The Jordan Rules" -- basically, they mugged him at every turn.

So very meatbally.

So very dismissive, smug, ignorant of facts and name-cally.

Jordan, who famously played all-out all the time on both ends of the court, played full 82-game seasons 9 times in his career -- including all 3 seasons after coming out of retirement the first time, when he also played full postseason slates. He had 3 other seasons in which he played at least 78 games. (Otherwise, he had two years with serious injuries and the partial season after returning from baseball.) At age 39, in his final season, he averaged 37 mpg while playing all 82 games for the Wizards. He was both an incredible gamer and one who knew that NBA fans paid good money to see him, and he took that responsibility seriously.

So yes, he neither needed nor wanted "load management" games off. Just because you don't like a point doesn't mean it's not valid.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

So yes, he neither needed nor wanted "load management" games off. Just because you don't like a point doesn't mean it's not valid.

He may not have *wanted* it, but you can't claim he didn't *need* it.  You have no idea if he would have been better off playing a handful less games a season.

I tend to think modern athletic training is a little more advanced than it was in his day in that regard.

[MU82]

He may not have *wanted* it, but you can't claim he didn't *need* it.  You have no idea if he would have been better off playing a handful less games a season.

I tend to think modern athletic training is a little more advanced than it was in his day in that regard.

Maybe you're right. Maybe the extra rest would have pushed him over 40 ppg after all!

But seriously, Jordan knew he had a responsibility to show up and play -- and the NBA knew it, too. He was gonna sit out the Bulls' first exhibition game in Dayton in 1995 -- his first preseason after coming out of retirement -- but Stern "strongly suggested" to the Bulls that Jordan play. So Jordan played in a game that was meaningless to everybody except the Dayton fans who sold out the arena and chanted his name.

In fact, the only game Jordan missed from March 1995 (after he came back from baseball) to June 1998 was the Bulls’ sixth preseason game in 1997-98 (due to ingrown toenails having just been surgically removed).

So from age 32-35, Jordan played in 357 of 358 games -- 263 of 263 regular-season games, 3 of 3 All-Star Games, 68 of 68 postseason games, and 23 of 24 preseason games.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Yeah, I just don't think any particular player has that obligation either.

[Jockey]

Yeah, I just don't think any particular player has that obligation either.

People pay big $$$ to see stars play. They have to buy tickets far in advance to get good seats. Players are paid for every game.

They should feel obligated. They owe at least an effort to play when scheduled to the game that has made them rich beyond belief.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

They buy tickets to an NBA game.  If a player is sitting due to injury or just needing rest, that is fine.  Individually they don't owe me anything. 

I would rather have my teams healthy for the playoffs.

[MU82]

Thanks for coming out to see the E Street Band. Bruce decided to take a "load management" night off, but you only bought tickets to a concert, so put your hands together for Silvio, tonight's lead vocalist!

[JWags85]

[quot e author=MU82 link=topic=62123.msg1381082#msg1381082 date=1636137115]
Thanks for coming out to see the E Street Band. Bruce decided to take a "load management" night off, but you only bought tickets to a concert, so put your hands together for Silvio, tonight's lead vocalist!
[/quote]

Nope.  Maybe the NY Philharmonic where the lead violinist or other soloist decides to sit out and ice their hand.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Thanks for coming out to see the E Street Band. Bruce decided to take a "load management" night off, but you only bought tickets to a concert, so put your hands together for Silvio, tonight's lead vocalist!

Of course that's not the same thing, but understudies can take the place of stars on Broadway and you are likely not due a refund.

[Billy Hoyle]

Thanks for coming out to see the E Street Band. Bruce decided to take a "load management" night off, but you only bought tickets to a concert, so put your hands together for Silvio, tonight's lead vocalist!

Oasis did that, but it wasn't "load management" but rather "Liam is being a wanker and Noel knocked him out pre-show."

[Jockey]

They buy tickets to an NBA game.  If a player is sitting due to injury or just needing rest, that is fine.  Individually they don't owe me anything. 

I would rather have my teams healthy for the playoffs.

Disagree. If a kid wants to see LeBron or Curry or Giannis they should get to see them if they are not injured. Good seats with 1 or 2 kids can easily be a $500.00 outing. No middle class person wants to put out that kind of money to see backups.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Disagree. If a kid wants to see LeBron or Curry or Giannis they should get to see them if they are not injured. Good seats with 1 or 2 kids can easily be a $500.00 outing. No middle class person wants to put out that kind of money to see backups.

Then don't go.

[lawdog77]

Then don't go.

You should do marketing for the NBA.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

You should do marketing for the NBA.

If people are going to buy NBA tickets, or tickets to any sporting event, in the hopes of watching a specific player, the buyer bears the risk that the player may not play for whatever reason.  If the team feels they need a night off, that's their choice.  If a NFL doesn't play their starters in Game 17 because they have their seed locked up, that's their choice.

If someone's night is ruined because they laid down $500 to watch Lebron, then they probably shouldn't lay down $500.  But my guess is that they will go and have a fun time anyway.

[MU82]

[quot e author=MU82 link=topic=62123.msg1381082#msg1381082 date=1636137115]
Thanks for coming out to see the E Street Band. Bruce decided to take a "load management" night off, but you only bought tickets to a concert, so put your hands together for Silvio, tonight's lead vocalist!


Nope.  Maybe the NY Philharmonic where the lead violinist or other soloist decides to sit out and ice their hand.

Jordan wasn’t just the lead violinist in a 100-piece orchestra, Wags, and you know it.

He was Springsteen or Jagger or Pavarotti. He’s who people paid to see, especially after he came back from retirement.

Of course that's not the same thing, but understudies can take the place of stars on Broadway and you are likely not due a refund.

It would be like an understudy filling in for the biggest star in the biggest Broadway show — if the star was sitting out just because he didn’t feel like performing that night.

For those who paid hundreds of dollars to see the play, it would be very, very disappointing.

And I never said anything about refunds.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

“Load management” doesn’t mean sitting just because you don’t feel like performing.

Try to keep up ok?

[JWags85]

Jordan wasn’t just the lead violinist in a 100-piece orchestra, Wags, and you know it.

He was Springsteen or Jagger or Pavarotti. He’s who people paid to see, especially after he came back from retirement.

But it’s still a Bulls game.  It’s a professional sports team. Even if it’s a star player, it’s still a team selling tickets and fans buying tickets for their game. Theyre not going for a one off tour show.  If Pavorotti or Bruce has an injury or sickness the show is cancelled and the tour is rescheduled or refunded.  If you bought Bulls tickets in October for a Feb game to watch MJ and he broke his leg or was suspended, they’d still play the game, life goes on.

Furthermore, sports are more than entertainment.  Organizations are trying to win titles. As Fluffy said, players aren’t sitting out cause they feel like it, it’s part of a rest strategy to give them the best chance to be rested and ready. Perform their best down the stretch.   When you go to a concert or Broadway show, it’s just entertainment. Hell, Ive been to multiple Broadways shows where a lead didn’t perform cause they needed a night off to make sure they were at their best for the duration of the run.  Theater load management!

[Hards Alumni]

If people are going to buy NBA tickets, or tickets to any sporting event, in the hopes of watching a specific player, the buyer bears the risk that the player may not play for whatever reason.  If the team feels they need a night off, that's their choice.  If a NFL doesn't play their starters in Game 17 because they have their seed locked up, that's their choice.

If someone's night is ruined because they laid down $500 to watch Lebron, then they probably shouldn't lay down $500.  But my guess is that they will go and have a fun time anyway.

Yup.  The players aren't animals at the zoo.

[Jockey]

A lot of players are making $250,000 - $500,00 PER GAME. They get that much because of fans who shell out huge amounts of money (for a middle class family) to see the stars play..

Yet, some here feel it's unreasonable to expect them to play every game when healthy.

[JWags85]

A lot of players are making $250,000 - $500,00 PER GAME. They get that much because of fans who shell out huge amounts of money (for a middle class family) to see the stars play..

Yet, some here feel it's unreasonable to expect them to play every game when healthy.

No, they get that amount because of TV contracts and advertising dollars

[wadesworld]

No, they get that amount because of TV contracts and advertising dollars

Yeah. Ticket sales are not where the big revenue is.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

A lot of players are making $250,000 - $500,00 PER GAME. They get that much because of fans who shell out huge amounts of money (for a middle class family) to see the stars play..

Yet, some here feel it's unreasonable to expect them to play every game when healthy.

They mostly get it because of TV contracts set in place long before tickets are sold for the game.

[Jockey]

They mostly get it because of TV contracts set in place long before tickets are sold for the game.

Now that is about as chico-esque as you can get.

Why did the NBA get the huge contract? Would they have have gotten the same contract if the fanbase was the same as the NHL?

They get that money because of the size of the fan base and because they are terrific at promoting the stars.

So, if they are using the stars to promote the league, fans should expect to see them play when healthy.

[wadesworld]

Now that is about as chico-esque as you can get.

Why did the NBA get the huge contract? Would they have have gotten the same contract if the fanbase was the same as the NHL?

They get that money because of the size of the fan base and because they are terrific at promoting the stars.

So, if they are using the stars to promote the league, fans should expect to see them play when healthy.

There’s a reason the league has made a push to get teams to load manage on non-nationally televised games.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Now that is about as chico-esque as you can get.

Why did the NBA get the huge contract? Would they have have gotten the same contract if the fanbase was the same as the NHL?

They get that money because of the size of the fan base and because they are terrific at promoting the stars.

So, if they are using the stars to promote the league, fans should expect to see them play when healthy.

Load management has been around for awhile.  And tickets are still sold and games are sill watched. 

Again, I would rather have Giannis healthy for the playoffs, and am not worried about some dude who shelled out $500 and junior is upset.  If you don't understand that players can miss games, then don't take the risk.

You and MU82 are tag-teaming for who can make the most illogical post.  Wonder what he will come up with now???!!!???  So excited.