2021-22 NBA Thread: The Bucks are Reigning Champs

[cheebs09]

If you ask the 10,000 smartest basketball people in the world who is better between Durant and Wiggins, all 10,000 would say Durant. To say Durant's a hell of a player would be an understatement.

But Steph and the Warriors don't need Durant to win titles.

Oh, he made them better and he made winning more likely, but Steph also won with Harrison Barnes and now Andrew Wiggins playing that position.

This season, and these playoffs, Wiggins has done exactly what the Warriors needed him to do. It was impossible not to be impressed with him.

Meanwhile, Durant has won bupkis without Steph. And it was his choice to leave.

As for Steph, this must have been extremely satisfying for him. What a career.

Oh, and Steve Kerr apparently can coach a little, too.

Did Durant kick your dog? I think he made a bet that a super team with Kyrie and others would work. If not for some injuries and a toe on the line, he might have been right.

It also sounds like he wasn't all that happy in GS. He received a lot of backlash for his move. I don't know him, but wouldn't be surprised if he is at peace with his decision.

[MuggsyB]

In all seriousness the reason Golden State has been so successful is because of their defense.  Ask yourself why they could guard Boston and say Milwaukee couldn't at all?  Now yes, when they had Durant they had overwhelming talent but they have always been elite defensively and have never really had a rim protector.  That's a testament to Kerr and their coaching staff along with the players understanding rotations and their roles.  It's pretty eye opening that a 6'10 Jayson Tatum couldn't get to the rim whereas Curry was getting lay-ups regularly.  Kerr is elite as a coach.  LIght years better than Budenholzer.

[The Sultan]

That's your retort?   "Cool"? 

Yes.  What else should I say when people state obvious things, that I was never commenting on in the first place???

[Uncle Rico]

Congrats to Steve Kerr.  Nine titles as a player and coach.  Better person

[MUfan12]

In all seriousness the reason Golden State has been so successful is because of their defense.  Ask yourself why they could guard Boston and say Milwaukee couldn't at all? Now yes, when they had Durant they had overwhelming talent but they have always been elite defensively and have never really had a rim protector.  That's a testament to Kerr and their coaching staff along with the players understanding rotations and their roles.  It's pretty eye opening that a 6'10 Jayson Tatum couldn't get to the rim whereas Curry was getting lay-ups regularly.  Kerr is elite as a coach.  LIght years better than Budenholzer.

Because the Bucks were down a 6-8 All-Star wing who is a good defender?

The defense didn't cost the Bucks the series. The halfcourt offense went to sh*t.

[The Sultan]

Because the Bucks were down a 6-8 All-Star wing who is a good defender?

The defense didn't cost the Bucks the series. The halfcourt offense went to sh*t.

Yep

[JWags85]

Bringing up Durant at all in this discussion is just dumb.  Celebrate Curry's historic greatness, Kerr's ability as a coach, and the Warrior's FO bouncing back and rebuilding a roster a bit and adding some key pieces.  Using this as a chance to bag on Durant or rehash his decision to leave is just silly agenda pushing.

Ime Udoka is an excellent coach who did a lot of really great things all playoffs...but how he let the Warriors continue to switch Horford onto Curry and then Steph just torching him repeatedly...was baffling to say the least.

Draymond is polarizing to say the least, and he was AWFUL at points in the series...but my god did he hit some huge shots last night.

[Jockey]

My phone personal opinion. Jordan a clear number 1. Turn a decent number of all time elite players in the 2-10 slots that one could argue one way or another on. Curry you s in that group.

I would mostly agree - except I think it is 3 guys at the top and then an argument can be made for about 10 guys to round out the top 10.

[MuggsyB]

Bringing up Durant at all in this discussion is just dumb.  Celebrate Curry's historic greatness, Kerr's ability as a coach, and the Warrior's FO bouncing back and rebuilding a roster a bit and adding some key pieces.  Using this as a chance to bag on Durant or rehash his decision to leave is just silly agenda pushing.

Ime Udoka is an excellent coach who did a lot of really great things all playoffs...but how he let the Warriors continue to switch Horford onto Curry and then Steph just torching him repeatedly...was baffling to say the least.

Draymond is polarizing to say the least, and he was AWFUL at points in the series...but my god did he hit some huge shots last night.

One thing that made no sense to me,, and I don't t think it's Udoka's fault, is that Curry found himself in isolation vs their bigs constantly.  Isn't Marcus Smart the so called DPOY?  He's  not good enough to get around screens?  He's not mentally capable of understanding that an auto-switch is death vs Curry?  DPOY?  Really?

[MuggsyB]

Because the Bucks were down a 6-8 All-Star wing who is a good defender?

The defense didn't cost the Bucks the series. The halfcourt offense went to sh*t.

You're right, their offense was bad too.  But they also got torched in G4 and G6 at home.  They allowed Bostion to get better shots all series They are nowhere near as good defensively as Golden State.

[BM1090]

Bucks win that series in 6 and maybe the title if Middleton is healthy. You need tough shot makers against Boston's D. The Bucks have one. He couldn't play.

Not sure how they would have fared against GS. Jrue is about as good of a defender at the PG spot as you could ask for but Steph and Klay probably would have torched the drop coverage. On the other hand, GS really has nobody for Giannis.

[BM1090]

One thing that made no sense to me,, and I don't t think it's Udoka's fault, is that Curry found himself in isolation vs their bigs constantly.  Isn't Marcus Smart the so called DPOY?  He's  not good enough to get around screens?  He's not mentally capable of understanding that an auto-switch is death vs Curry?  DPOY?  Really?

I think that was a clear choice by Udoka. If it happened once it might be on the player. But they were switching everything 1-5 in the last six minutes. GS didn't have to work all that hard to get Horford onto Steph during that stretch.

[MuggsyB]

Bucks win that series in 6 and maybe the title if Middleton is healthy. You need tough shot makers against Boston's D. The Bucks have one. He couldn't play.

Not sure how they would have fared against GS. Jrue is about as good of a defender at the PG spot as you could ask for but Steph and Klay probably would have torched the drop coverage. On the other hand, GS really has nobody for Giannis.

That's pretty accurate but I think GS would live with Giannis going off and shutting down the rest of their team.  Holiday'would have to play better offensively and he might have with Middleton.

[Jockey]

A couple of thoughts about GS:

There was a huge contrast between the leaders on the Warriors (Green, Curry, Iguadola) as compared to the leader on the T'Wolves involving Andrew Wiggins. Jimmy Butler decided to rip Wiggins to his core for not playing as Butler thought he should. To Jimmy, his own ego was all that mattered. At GS, they decided to build Wiggins up to get him to become the player he could be. They made it about Wiggins - not about themselves. This is one of the reasons that Jimmy is probably my least favorite ex-Warrior in the NBA.


Second, I compare the outlook of GM Bob Myers to that of Jerry Krause. Myers says:

"What I said, and I said to our owner and believe and still believe was we owe it to them — meaning those three guys — to give them a chance to succeed or fail. And they hadn't had that yet, for two years. And they didn't even get it through the regular season. ... So I've always held on to that. But there was no thought of 'Well, we've got to break this up.' We just thought that they've done so well together, let's not be the ones to end it. If it ends because we get beat or things change or whatever happens, fine. But let's not be the reason they didn't get another shot at this thing. That was the motivation."

[MuggsyB]

I think that was a clear choice by Udoka. If it happened once it might be on the player. But they were switching everything 1-5 in the last six minutes. GS didn't have to work all that hard to get Horford onto Steph during that stretch.

Did it make any sense to you whether it was Udoka or Smart?  I didn't understand it  but was thrilled. 

[BM1090]

Did it make any sense to you whether it was Udoka or Smart?  I didn't understand it  but was thrilled.

It did not make sense to me. Horford did about as good of a job as he could on Curry but as soon as they got that switch you knew it was going to end in a basket.

[PGsHeroes32]

A couple of thoughts about GS:

There was a huge contrast between the leaders on the Warriors (Green, Curry, Iguadola) as compared to the leader on the T'Wolves involving Andrew Wiggins. Jimmy Butler decided to rip Wiggins to his core for not playing as Butler thought he should. To Jimmy, his own ego was all that mattered. At GS, they decided to build Wiggins up to get him to become the player he could be. They made it about Wiggins - not about themselves. This is one of the reasons that Jimmy is probably my least favorite ex-Warrior in the NBA.


Second, I compare the outlook of GM Bob Myers to that of Jerry Krause. Myers says:

"What I said, and I said to our owner and believe and still believe was we owe it to them — meaning those three guys — to give them a chance to succeed or fail. And they hadn't had that yet, for two years. And they didn't even get it through the regular season. ... So I've always held on to that. But there was no thought of 'Well, we've got to break this up.' We just thought that they've done so well together, let's not be the ones to end it. If it ends because we get beat or things change or whatever happens, fine. But let's not be the reason they didn't get another shot at this thing. That was the motivation."

Think its definitely safe to say Jimmy was not the same impact on Wiggins that the Warriors core was but...

Wiggins was not the brunt of Jimmys wrath. That was Kat.

A huge thing that helped Wiggins was he finally was able to stop being what everyone thought he would be. Hes not the guy, he never will be the guy. But hes a natural talent that when you put him on a team where hes never required to be a top 3 player(but still can be) then he can really succeed.

Jimmy and Wiggins to this day are still pretty cordial with each other I believe.

[JWags85]

Think its definitely safe to say Jimmy was not the same impact on Wiggins that the Warriors core was but...

Wiggins was not the brunt of Jimmys wrath. That was Kat.

A huge thing that helped Wiggins was he finally was able to stop being what everyone thought he would be. Hes not the guy, he never will be the guy. But hes a natural talent that when you put him on a team where hes never required to be a top 3 player(but still can be) then he can really succeed.

Jimmy and Wiggins to this day are still pretty cordial with each other I believe.

Butler has been effusive in his praise of Wiggins behind closed doors.   Jimmy talked about it on his way out of Minny to the organization.    Iguadola talked about it from their time in Miami. Iggy even said Butler made him look at Wiggins completely differently as a player.

Wiggins is also a vet in his late 20s instead of a young guy needing to be THE MAN with huge expectations like he was in Minny, that probably went a long way in helping him react well to leadership as well.

I can't believe we're still talking about Butler's ego about him being a leader like its a bad thing when he's dragging his team through the playoffs and KAT's Timberwolves play like mental midgets.

[MuggsyB]

It did not make sense to me. Horford did about as good of a job as he could on Curry but as soon as they got that switch you knew it was going to end in a basket.

Exactly.  And I think autoswitching happens far too often.   As a side note I'm sort of tired of "the greatest shooter ever" label for Curry.  It connotes that he's in the mold of a MIller or Ray Allen type player.  He's not.  The guy has tremendous handles and the ability to score all over the floor.  He's not only one of the greatest scorers ever, but he can do it both with or away from the ball.  He also is vastly underrated as a distributor.  He creates a ton of offense without direct assists a la the hockey assist.  Now he doesn't get to the line like other great scorers but the triple is the great equalizer.    He may be the 2nd most dangerous scorer in history.

[MU82]

Did Durant kick your dog? I think he made a bet that a super team with Kyrie and others would work. If not for some injuries and a toe on the line, he might have been right.

It also sounds like he wasn't all that happy in GS. He received a lot of backlash for his move. I don't know him, but wouldn't be surprised if he is at peace with his decision.

I've called Durant great, spectacular and a top-10 all-time talent. So obviously I hate him.

When putting Curry's career in perspective, I happen to think the fact that he won with and without Durant while Durant never won without Curry -- even though Durant chose to leave and tried but failed (at least so far) to build his own superteam -- says even more about Curry's place in history.

I just think it's an interesting subject. If others don't, that's fine.

And the "toe on the line" defense of Durant is silly. It was his toe. He's an all-time great. He's taken a bazillion 3s. So ... know where your effen toe is and know where the effen line is in that situation.

(In comments afterward, he blamed his "big-ass foot" and said "it wasn't in God's plan." Who knew The Almighty was a Bucks fan?)

Anyway, good on Curry, Kerr, Wiggins and the rest of the Warriors for a well-deserved NBA title.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

Durant and OKC probably win the 2012 title if Lebron, Bosh, and Wade don't form a super team in Miami.

Then OKC dealt Harden because the owners were cheap and didn't want to pay everyone and have a large luxury tax bill.

So I don't think Durant deserves any flack for doing what he needed to do to win a title.  It just so happened that the NBA had a huge jump in the cap at the same time.  And GSW had really good contracts at the time.  IIRC, Curry was on his 4 yr/$44 million deal so the Warriors had cap space to sign Durant outright.

But I think the relationship between Durant and the Warriors soured after he injured his achilles.  Durant returned too early from his calf injury and I think that the achilles injury destroyed his trust of the franchise. So he moved on.

Interestingly enough, Durant did a sign and trade that resulted in the Warriors get D'Angelo Russell, who the Warriors eventually flipped to get Wiggins.  The Warriors won this title in part, thanks to their ability to retain some asset value for Durant.

[MU82]

Interestingly enough, Durant did a sign and trade that resulted in the Warriors get D'Angelo Russell, who the Warriors eventually flipped to get Wiggins.  The Warriors won this title in part, thanks to their ability to retain some asset value for Durant.

That's a great point. Most sign-and-trades yield little if anything for the team that gives up the star, but GS sure scored there.

I don't hold it against Durant that he decided to form a superteam with Curry & Co. or that he left to try to form his own superteam. I just happen to think it's interesting -- and a credit to Curry -- that he won one before Durant showed up and won another after Durant left.

If Durant is a top-20 player or better -- and I'm pretty sure all of us think he is -- it just makes Curry's accomplishments all the more impressive.

[MU82]

Now that Curry won another title, some of the hoops folks at The Athletic have debated where he stands on their top-75 lists ...

John Hollinger, senior columnist: Does this move him up past, say, Dirk Nowitzki and David Robinson on my list? I think he has a stronger argument now than he did a year ago, but the bulk of that argument is from 2015 to 2020 either way. Sooo ... he is definitely more firmly a top-20 player with ring No. 4, but the bar to move the needle at this level is insanely high. Let's call him No. 17 on my list now.

Jason Jones, staff writer: Curry is certainly top-10. I'd have him behind Jordan, LeBron, Kareem, Magic, Shaq, Wilt, Russell and Kobe.

Rob Peterson, senior editor: I had Curry at No. 14, Kobe at 13, Olajuwon at No. 12 and KD at 11. I'd move Curry ahead of Kobe and Hakeem, and then I'd need to weigh the Curry-KD dynamic.

[Uncle Rico]

Who cares

[MuggsyB]

Now that Curry won another title, some of the hoops folks at The Athletic have debated where he stands on their top-75 lists ...

John Hollinger, senior columnist: Does this move him up past, say, Dirk Nowitzki and David Robinson on my list? I think he has a stronger argument now than he did a year ago, but the bulk of that argument is from 2015 to 2020 either way. Sooo ... he is definitely more firmly a top-20 player with ring No. 4, but the bar to move the needle at this level is insanely high. Let's call him No. 17 on my list now.

Jason Jones, staff writer: Curry is certainly top-10. I'd have him behind Jordan, LeBron, Kareem, Magic, Shaq, Wilt, Russell and Kobe.

Rob Peterson, senior editor: I had Curry at No. 14, Kobe at 13, Olajuwon at No. 12 and KD at 11. I'd move Curry ahead of Kobe and Hakeem, and then I'd need to weigh the Curry-KD dynamic.

Ya... I think they're  crazy.