Scott Drew v Wojo

[bradforster]

Watch the Showtime documentary "Disgraced" and then tell me the Drew and Wojo job situations were similar.  What Drew has done at Baylor following the macabre known as the Dave Bliss tenure is almost miraculous. 

[The Sultan]

It's not just guys like Billy and jesmu. It's Scott's peers as well. This is an older article but a panel of 100 coaches picked Scott second.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/critical-coaches-who-is-perceived-to-be-the-biggest-cheater-in-the-sport/

Could be sour grapes but combine what some of his peers have said with the realities of what the Baylor athletic department has been known to tolerate and you can understand the perception.

A nine year old article with no evidence presented and no issues since.  Sorry but that's not enough for me.

Actually, it was related to the entire university, not just the football team. Some of the football cases got leaked and were made the face of the scandal. I wouldn't make the mistake of assuming that the basketball team wasn't involved as well.

I mean that's fair, but no basketball player was accused that I am aware of.  Are you?

[dgies9156]

Ultimate point here is that we all agree that Coach Wojo was not a good hire. He was a rebound hire that happened because our first choice left us at the altar.

It is entirely possible that Coach Wojo goes on to be another Rick Majerus and attains high level success somewhere else. But, it was apparent he was not going to be as successful as most of us expect for a coach at Marquette. The first seven years were sunk costs and we had to evaluate based on a reasonable prognosis for the next three to four years. That's why he's gone.

I truly hope he does well somewhere else. But it had to be done.

Go Shaka!!!!!!!

[GooooMarquette]

I was a projo - or at least a so-sojo- for a lot longer than many on this board. As much as I didn't like the results, I could have lived with it if I had some reason to believe he was improving. What pushed me over the edge this year was when I became utterly convinced that he wasn't getting better and that another year (or two or three) would have been more of the same.

You give young coaches more time when you think they are improving. If you become convinced that they are not, you've got to cut your losses.

Well said.

I felt exactly the same way. And I still think Wojo has a chance to improve as a head coach he lands in the right spot, surrounds himself with assistants who can teach him new things, and actually listens to their suggestions[i/].

[burger]

I fart in your general direction......AKA.....What a load of B.S......

Stop being a Wojo apologist.....Only time will tell if Wojo will overcome his deficiencies and adapt a new more "productive" system and culture.....

Clearly at Marquette he was spinning his wheels with no evidence of any improvement.....Not in the past.....Nor in the future......

[Scoop Snoop]

Ultimate point here is that we all agree that Coach Wojo was not a good hire. He was a rebound hire that happened because our first choice left us at the altar.

It is entirely possible that Coach Wojo goes on to be another Rick Majerus and attains high level success somewhere else. But, it was apparent he was not going to be as successful as most of us expect for a coach at Marquette. The first seven years were sunk costs and we had to evaluate based on a reasonable prognosis for the next three to four years. That's why he's gone.

I truly hope he does well somewhere else. But it had to be done.

Go Shaka!!!!!!!

He may well succeed elsewhere but the operative word, to me, is reasonable. Marquette definitely gave him a reasonable amount of time to succeed here. If he succeeds at another school, we will never hear the end of it from diehard projos. Whatever abilities that may surface in the future, he failed to bring them to fruition at MU. The key question is will he listen to those who can help him with his weaknesses.

[MU82]

He may well succeed elsewhere but the operative word, to me, is reasonable. Marquette definitely gave him a reasonable amount of time to succeed here. If he succeeds at another school, we will never hear the end of it from diehard projos. Whatever abilities that may surface in the future, he failed to bring them to fruition at MU. The key question is will he listen to those who can help him with his weaknesses.

All good points ... but how many projos do you really think are still Scoopin'? Are there even a dozen left? Even 5?

[MikeDeanesDarkGlasses]

I fart in your general direction......AKA.....What a load of B.S......

Stop being a Wojo apologist.....Only time will tell if Wojo will overcome his deficiencies and adapt a new more "productive" system and culture.....

Clearly at Marquette he was spinning his wheels with no evidence of any improvement.....Not in the past.....Nor in the future......

The problematic issue with most MUScoopers is that they don't know how to recognize talent when it's on the floor.  Wojo never developed system, never recruited players to fit a system, and many of his players didn't mature a significant amount while Wojo was coach.  He had 7 years and didn't show ANY improvement.  The guy is a dud just as much as many of the posters are on here - except for a handful who understand basketball.   When you have to go Kenpom to dig for statistics to prove someone's worth, you don't know basketball - you're just some stat geek that can't relate information to the real world.  If you were a Pro Wojer, you're not a true basketball fan that understands the game nor ever will. 

[Spaniel with a Short Tail]

[f/k/a humanlung]

Well said.

I felt exactly the same way. And I still think Wojo has a chance to improve as a head coach he lands in the right spot, surrounds himself with assistants who can teach him new things, and actually listens to their suggestions[i/].

The only chance Wojo has to improve is if he starts listening to voices that come from outside of his own head.

There is a difference between having the courage of one's convictions and just being stubborn.

[Newsdreams]

How long before many here start turning on Shaka?

[Uncle Rico]

How long before many here start turning on Shaka?

After his first loss next year

[MU82]

I know we're being funny, but really, I would expect it to be quite some time before Shaka gets much criticism.

Many nojos said they knew early on that Wojo had been a bad hire, with some saying they knew it even before he coached his first game. Many (most?) of those Scoopers have been all-in on Shaka. They are 100% certain that he is a great coach, and they also are motivated by being "right" (which we all like to be). So they will give him a lot of latitude. We already saw many excuses being made on his behalf -- all the references to his "bad luck" at Texas -- that they never accorded Wojo.

So perhaps the largest group of nojos, guys who never liked him for a day, are in love with Shaka and will be very patient through growing pains if any.

Now, there are some who, sadly, believe Shaka got the job only because he is Black, and/or those who think Moser would have been a much better choice. I hope they give Shaka time, but a few of them might not. Because they, too, want to be "right."

As a projo-turned-nojo and a Shaka skeptic-turned-cheerleader, I believe Shaka will do so well at Marquette that there will be little reason to "turn on" him. That doesn't mean he should be above legitimate criticism -- even the most accomplished coaches in history aren't immune to that, nor should they be.

We Are Marquette!

[The Thing]

The big question for me is what terms are we going to use for Shaka? (proShaka and noShaka just don't roll off the tongue).

[StillAWarrior]

The big question for me is what terms are we going to use for Shaka? (proShaka and noShaka just don't roll off the tongue).

For the first couple years, perhaps we could just use "Marquette Fan" and "Other"

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

The big question for me is what terms are we going to use for Shaka? (proShaka and noShaka just don't roll off the tongue).

Smarties and Dummies

[Uncle Rico]

The big question for me is what terms are we going to use for Shaka? (proShaka and noShaka just don't roll off the tongue).

I'm mostly excited to see what name Willie comes up with for Shaka

[Scoop Snoop]

The big question for me is what terms are we going to use for Shaka? (proShaka and noShaka just don't roll off the tongue).

Shakyahs and Shaknahs. And why wait until the first loss to go after him? We already have the bald vs. hair issue and his inexcusable failure to have his staff on board.

[warriorchick]

After his first loss next year

More like after the first time Marquette gets behind in a game.

[MU82]

For the first couple years, perhaps we could just use "Marquette Fan" and "Other"

This.

[buckchuckler]

How long before many here start turning on Shaka?

I find this odd considering this thread was made to defend the coach that was here and bad for 7 years.

[THRILLHO]

I find this odd considering this thread was made to defend the coach that was here and bad for 7 years. troll

Fify

[Pakuni]

I find this odd considering this thread was made to defend the coach that was here and bad for 7 years.

Correction: This thread was made to troll.

[NCMUFan]

Let's be realistic about the two situations:

1) Wojo walked into Marquette knowing his job was to rebuild and restart a fading glory program. Like it or not, Wojo was going to be measured by the quality of recruits he brought to play for Marquette, the number of times the team made the NCAA and the number of NCAA wins Marquette sustained in his tenure. Simply put, we expected him to rebuild us to where we were just two years before he got here.

2) The shadow of the late Al McGuire engulfed everything about Wojo and our program.

3) Basketball's marketing and dollar value is way too important to Marquette. No way our beloved leadership would allow a mediocre program for 15 to 17 years. We'd lose most of our fan base if that happened. Think D-E-P-A-U-L !!!!

4) Wojo was a spring-back love after our first love, Shaka, jilted us. It never really fit and when the first love faced an ugly divorce, it was our chance to be romantic again. This time, both sides knew they were right for each other.

5) Coach Drew, by contrast, inherited a crapfest, to put it mildly. It was going to take time to rebuild and, because Baylor is not a traditional basketball school, nor is basketball king, he was going to have time to rebuild and redeploy the program.

Coach Wojo would have loved to have had Coach Drew's runway. Sadly, you'd be hard-pressed to convince me or anyone else that his current flight plan was going to net matearially different results than we've seen in the past seven years.

Regarding 4) Is the Shaka - MU relationship just a rebound relationship for Shaka after his first love "Texas" dumped him?

[Newsdreams]

I find this odd considering this thread was made to defend the coach that was here and bad for 7 years.

It is teal but....