What Would It Take for Forgiveness?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Assuming Norlander is correct, and as of this moment I believe he is, Wojo will be the coach next season. The next year conundrum thread made me curious about what people's expectations are for next season. Not what they think will happen, but what they think needs to happen in order for Wojo to earn a stay of execution.

What level of performance would be required by the team next season for you to want Wojo to be retained?

[Badgerhater]

What I want to see is a balanced roster of fundamentally sound basketball players that work within a system that maximize their individual talents and multiples the overall team talent.

Can't have that with empty schollie spots.

[Galway Eagle]

Not gonna vote. If he has a top 3 seed but we lose in the first round I'll be pissed but willing to give him rope, if he gets an 11 seed and makes the sweet 16 I'd be wrongfully distracted from a meh season but willing to give him rope.

I don't see a scenario barring a great season, no collapse, second weekend appearance all in together where I completely forgive him and hop back on his bandwagon.

[Hards Alumni]

If he doesn't win a tourney game next year, no matter what seed he pulls he better be gone.

[dinger]

it will take more than 1 year since we have had many seasons of anger/sadness, so mine is:

24 wins + Elite 8
If he actually achieves that, not ditching us afterwards like we all expect
Follow it up with 2 more seasons in top 3 of BE, >.500 NCAAs record in those years
I expect none of this to happen

[brewcity77]

Results are great, but I want to see him actually address the constant deficiencies. It's more about being able to put a top-25 efficiency defense on the floor night in and night out. It's about cutting the turnover rate down to the top-50 in the nation, and at least top-100 on both ends of the floor. It's demonstrating the ability to put players in positions to win, not constantly inbounding into the corner against the press or heaving every BOOB inbound to mid-court. It's being able to put multiple point guards on the floor at once. DJ Carton is not suited to be a primary ball-handler and should have someone next to him who is more of a true game manager and distributor. It's recruiting wings that can be effective inside and out, not a roster where (departing) Jamal Cain is literally the only high-major wing on the roster. And honestly, replacing an assistant with a proven game coach (say a Bruce Weber if he finds himself out at KSU and wants to come home for a spell) rather than just another young recruiter who doesn't have the time in life or the profession to stand up to Wojo would be a HUGE step. And someone more successful than Rob Judson, for damn sure.

As far as results, this team should be top-3 in the Big East next year. The league loses a lot of talent and there's room to move up. This should be a tournament team with a single digit seed, I'm thinking 6 or higher, but definitely single-digits. But again, while I want results, I really want to see an understanding of how to manage a team in a league like the Big East. I find that constantly lacking.

[panda]

For me, winning the Big East. That would imply there wouldn't be a massive collapse in season like we've grown accustomed to. It would also mean the team improves as the season goes on which hasn't happened in a long time either.

Being a bubble team isn't improvement and should warrant change.

[StillAWarrior]

I'm also not going to vote. Obviously, I'd like to see results, but that's not all I would need to see. I'd want to see a consistently effective coach who utilizes his players effectively, makes adjustments and seems to have a plan. In short, I'd want to see that he has improved as a coach because right now, I just don't think he has it.

So, even if he makes the tourney and/or wins a couple games there, that wouldn't necessarily be enough. I'd really need to be convinced that he's turned a corner and can coach. I'm aware, of course, that those two things might overlap a bit, but they're not the same.

I think it's far more likely that he'll make the tournament next year -- and maybe even win a game -- than that he'll turn the corner and finally become an effective coach. Frankly, that thought scares the hell out of me because it would buy him more time.

[StillAWarrior]

Results are great, but I want to see him actually address the constant deficiencies. It's more about being able to put a top-25 efficiency defense on the floor night in and night out. It's about cutting the turnover rate down to the top-50 in the nation, and at least top-100 on both ends of the floor. It's demonstrating the ability to put players in positions to win, not constantly inbounding into the corner against the press or heaving every BOOB inbound to mid-court. It's being able to put multiple point guards on the floor at once. DJ Carton is not suited to be a primary ball-handler and should have someone next to him who is more of a true game manager and distributor. It's recruiting wings that can be effective inside and out, not a roster where (departing) Jamal Cain is literally the only high-major wing on the roster. And honestly, replacing an assistant with a proven game coach (say a Bruce Weber if he finds himself out at KSU and wants to come home for a spell) rather than just another young recruiter who doesn't have the time in life or the profession to stand up to Wojo would be a HUGE step. And someone more successful than Rob Judson, for damn sure.

As far as results, this team should be top-3 in the Big East next year. The league loses a lot of talent and there's room to move up. This should be a tournament team with a single digit seed, I'm thinking 6 or higher, but definitely single-digits. But again, while I want results, I really want to see an understanding of how to manage a team in a league like the Big East. I find that constantly lacking.

This is what it looks like when someone who knows far more about basketball than I do expresses the opinion I was trying to express.

[Warriors4ever]

I'd probably go with #2 because in any of those scenarios you have to play some sustained excellent basketball. Which is what we haven't seen.

[GoldenWarrior11]

Honestly, I'm not sure.  Seven years is a lifetime for college coaches to put their stamp on a program.  Very, very few are given a rope that long to make their mark.  There is nothing at this point that leads me, or as it appears, many other MU fans, that anything radical will change in advance of next year.

Marquette and Clemson are vastly different programs, but I am beginning to view Wojo as similar to Brad Brownell.  In Brownell's first seven seasons, he only had two 20-win seasons and one NCAAT appearance (0-1).  For whatever reason, Brownell - because he is nice, polished and doesn't get the MBB into trouble (or take away from football) - has tremendous job security.  In his eighth year, he made a Sweet 16 and was given a six-year extension.  By year nine, it was another tournament miss and this year, year ten, is safely in the tournament again.  Brownell very much has a job for life, despite being in a loaded ACC and not really having any semblance of sustained success. 

There have been, and will continue to be, head coaches with strong resumes that are fired having had greater success than Wojo.  For various reasons, our school continues to look past that and not associate it with his evaluation.  I think I am honestly past the Wojo-era at MU, and I'm not really sure anything can be done to erase many seasons of inconsistency, mediocrity and subpar performances. 

[muwarrior69]

Sell out crowds at every home game. a promise that he will not lose 2 games in a row. Anything less he should promise to resign.

How can one forgive what is irredeemable.

[We R Final Four]

For various reasons, our school continues to look past that and not associate it with his evaluation.  I think I am honestly past the Wojo-era at MU, and I'm not really sure anything can be done to erase many seasons of inconsistency, mediocrity and subpar performances.

Thank you—this is exactly how I feel.
Time to move on. And if MU continues to be shortsighted in this, and retains Wojo....they will set the program back even further.
The decrease in STHs and the booing students will make the FF brutal next year. Will Wojo bring recruits to a half filled arena and deafening boos?
Future not looking bright.

[Dr. Blackheart]

The conundrum is if the shytshow that happened last time with MU is repeated. Lovell's and Wojo's careers are tied at the hip and Scholl is nearing retirement. What MU doesn't need is a repeat of that power void.

[shoothoops]

I look at it this way.

Where do people want to see the most improved results? Regular Season League and NCAA results.

At minimum he needs to win an NCAA game next season, and possibly two to keep his job. I would be surprised if he was kept after next year if he couldn't accomplish this. The one NCAA win vs two or more would be the big discussion. And I believe he has to get to the 2nd weekend to keep his job.

With regards to regular season, a top tier or better league finish which would produce a top 5 type of seed or better is strongly preferred. But I do believe if his regular season results were middle of the pack league but NCAA 2nd weekend he may be retained by MU.

The above is what I think what Marquette would do, not necessarily what I would do.

[Goose]

It will come down an eye test and gut feeling for me. There are times that you see a team/program has legitimately turned a corner and they have built a foundation for bigger things. Not at one time during the seven years have I really felt they had turned the corner in a big way. I remember in KO's first year you could sense that a culture was being formed, a style of play/system in place and the fan base felt excited.

I hate to say it, but if Wojo is back next year I am more interested in seeing a season of hard work, toughness and far more well played games than not. Too many times on here the header of a thread referenced an ugly win, a win is a win or similar titles. Great programs can have ugly wins, marginal programs need to learn how to win with good play.

I have said for a couple of years now that I would sacrifice wins for a sustainable program and he has provided neither, IMO. He would have make big time leap next season for me to give him an inch a rope.

[We R Final Four]

I look at it this way.

Where do people want to see the most improved results? Regular Season League and NCAA results.

What else is there?
Non-con? Pre-conference tournaments?
Big East tournament?
I want to see improvement in all games that are played.
I assume you are referring to March Madness when you said NCAA results.

[JTBMU7]

Assuming Norlander is correct, and as of this moment I believe he is, Wojo will be the coach next season. The next year conundrum thread made me curious about what people's expectations are for next season. Not what they think will happen, but what they think needs to happen in order for Wojo to earn a stay of execution.

What level of performance would be required by the team next season for you to want Wojo to be retained?

What did Norlander say?

[79Warrior]

The conundrum is if the shytshow that happened last time with MU is repeated. Lovell's and Wojo's careers are tied at the hip and Scholl is nearing retirement. What MU doesn't need is a repeat of that power void.

This

[cheebs09]

In the off-season, I'd like to see some meaningful change. Whether it's in philosophy, staff, or something else that shows Wojo recognizes something isn't working.

My worry is he will chalk last year up to Covid and bank on the core gaining some more experience. We then would do the same stuff as always and for some reason expect different results.

[Hards Alumni]

In the off-season, I'd like to see some meaningful change. Whether it's in philosophy, staff, or something else that shows Wojo recognizes something isn't working.

My worry is he will chalk last year up to Covid and bank on the core gaining some more experience. We then would do the same stuff as always and for some reason expect different results.

This is my expectation.

[shoothoops]

What else is there?
Non-con? Pre-conference tournaments?
Big East tournament?
I want to see improvement in all games that are played.
I assume you are referring to March Madness when you said NCAA results.

What else is there, rivalry games, conference tourney, non-conference, other tourneys, other results that are not as quantified, some of which have been mentioned in this thread.

Yes March Madness is NCAA Results.

I posted what I believe MU would or wouldn't do, and/or would look at most with regards to a decision.

[Small Orange Soda]

I need some assurance that any success isn't necessarily a fluke, so a top 25 finish along with the assumption we'll be a preseason top 25 team the next year.

[mu_hilltopper]

I won't vote for any of those options. 

The only thing that would change my mind on Wojo is consistency .. 3 straight seasons of top 5 in the BE, at least 2 seasons with a Dance, and at least 1 win.

I wouldn't require that of a new coach, only him, he's dug into such a deep hole.

This will 100% not happen without 5+ years more.    No one should be willing to invest that kind of time on a poor gamble.

[rocky_warrior]

What did Norlander say?

It's buried in this article
https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/court-report-the-tech-that-can-save-the-ncaa-tournament-how-to-seed-loyola-chicago-and-top-10-days-of-season/

But

Let's start with some coaching-cycle scuttlebutt. You better believe there are schools sending out feelers to people connected to coaches to politely gauge their interest in any potential openings. In talking to various sources in the past week, here's my impression as of today with power-conference gigs that have speculation around them and expectations in the coming days and weeks.   

Jobs I've been told are definitely opening: DePaul, Minnesota.

Jobs I've been told are definitely not opening: Marquette, Miami, Notre Dame.

Jobs I've been told will probably not open: Indiana, Kansas State, South Carolina.

Job I've been told is more likely to open than not: Iowa State.

A unique situation no one can predict: Arizona.

Also a mention of 1970 Marquette/Al in the article creating the only time the NCAA had to find a replacement team.